Buchanan (0.00 / 0)

Wasn't James Buchanan the most experienced person to ever win the office of presidency?  He made a pretty lack-luster president.

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by: nanoboy @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 19:37:32 PM UTC

He Had A Lot Of Experience (0.00 / 0)

Though not as a chief executive.  He was Secretary of State, for example, which is an executive office.  But he certainly had a wide variety of experience, which, all things being equal, would generally be considered a plus.  The problem is, of course, that what's true generally is often not much help for the individual case.

Lincoln is perhaps the most striking example of that.  The supremely experienced Buchanan preceeded him, and is now regarded as one of the worst presidents of all time (his descendents are among GW Bush's biggest fans). Lincoln, in sharp contrast, was almost devoid of government experience, and yet was clearly one of our greatest presidents--many rank him as #1.

What's more, as a rule, we haven't had a great deal of luck with generals as President--another form of "executive experience" that certainly involves life-and-death decisionmaking.  Washington is highly regarded, but it's hard to disentangle this from mythology.  Eisenhower sure looks good compared to all the Republicans who came after him.  But if he hadn't run, perhaps the GOP would never have given us all those terrible follow-ups.  Grant was a disaster, and most people can't even name the others.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 19:50:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Paul .. (0.00 / 0)

don't forget ... under their argument .. Ike didn't have execute experience .. after all .. he was never an elected official before becoming President ...  and was Poppy Bush ever a Governor or Mayor? .. I don't think so

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by: Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 20:14:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

No, Bush Sr. Was A Shiftless Bum Who Couldn't Hold A Job (4.00 / 2)

The GOP touted him as "Mr. Resume" (I kid you not!) because he'd held so many positions, but they were all short-term, ticket-punching kinds of things, where he was never around long enough to see anything long-term through to completion.

Some of them were executive positions (head of the RNC, head of the CIA), but none were chief executive.  He was always taking orders from someone else.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 20:19:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

If Eisenhower hadn't run (4.00 / 1)

we would have had President Adlai Stevenson twice, and his campaign was so ridiculously prescient in all of its messaging, that I have trouble believing that he wouldn't have been one of the top five or ten presidents ever.  

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by: Valatan @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 20:52:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

a low-information Republican voter (0.00 / 0)

was just telling me this crap last night about how Obama and Biden have "never run anything". She must have heard it on the radio.

As if Biden's foreign-policy experience and in-depth knowledge of federal policy in all areas is worth less than being mayor of a small suburb and governor for a year and a half. Joke.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.

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by: desmoinesdem @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 20:07:27 PM UTC

Did you reply .. (4.00 / 1)

that neither has Cranky McSame?

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by: Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 20:15:08 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

This Is The Same Information Stream That Paints Obama As A Secret Muslim (4.00 / 1)

You have authoritarian followers who implicitly trust people who tell them all the time that water isn't wet.  So this is hardly a surprise.

But they are far from a majority, which is why we need to push back--hard!

Next time you hear that, you might say, "Yeah, that Abe Lincoln guy, he had no executive experience, either, and look what a disaster he turned out to be."

Or maybe, "Say, you know, it's funny, but John McCain doesn't have any executive experience, either!"

Don't expect to convince them or anything. But you might want to grab your camera first, so you can capture their expression.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 20:15:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

A byproduct of an excessively litigious society? (0.00 / 0)

Something tells me she's gonna say something ridiculous every single day, and it's kinda like a bogus lawsuit; you have to answer the accusations whether they're absurd or not. It becomes a major distraction, and real issues are off the table. So, which side has the VP attack dog?

"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams

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by: tru blu @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 20:37:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

true dat (4.00 / 1)

that's Obama's choice to run a reactive defensive campaign on high ground. So it opens the door to barracudas gleefully lying, slandering, insinuating, misquoting, distorting and character assassinating into power. Then Dems have to run and repair the damage to their sinking ship.

We should drive the attacks instead of reacting, like Paul Begula said to TPM, so we'd be better off than we were four years ago.

http://tpmtv.talkingpointsmemo...

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by: T Maysle @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 20:51:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Here's a good resource on this issue. (0.00 / 0)

Found this the other day looking for something else:

http://www.ocregister.com/arti...

It's a run down on the experience of a number of Presidents and how they fared in history. Basically Obama's experience sounds run of the mill, better than Lincoln or Reagan in time served but Reagan had only eight years as governor.

The real issue with Palin is that her political experience is extremely lightweight. Yes, she's a governor but only for a year and a half (hardly time enough to make a difference) and for a small state in terms of population. Her mayoral experience also shows that, in terms of governing, she is a lightweight. No major direction, no major policy changes, that I can tell. Just debt, firing people pre-emptively, and all the rest.

One hopes that Obama and Biden and others running ads and talking about the specific bills Obama has worked on will end the argument. I doubt Palin has passed much legislation. I'd also like to see Dems point out that trashing Obama's experience trashes Lugar and other Republicans who've worked with Obama to pass legislation.

Bottomline, it would be nice if Colin Powell and Chuck Hagel and any other Republicans likely to endorse Obama did so now, to really undercut this fake argument.

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by: TSlavin @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 20:24:56 PM UTC

Actually She DID Change Direction As Mayor--For The Worse (4.00 / 1)

She introduced her town to the wonderful world of major debtedness.

A Dem with her record could not get elected dogcatcher.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 20:37:15 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I really think that experience is importaant (4.00 / 1)

inasmuch as it gives us a clue about how the person will behave with the glare of public opinion upon them.  Someone like Russ Feingold has behaved in a certain way, weathered criticism and electoral challenges, and still behaves that way.  We can trust him to behave the same way if elected much moreso than we can a small state governor who has never elicited national attention.  

Sometimes pressure brings out the best, like it did with Lincoln.  Sometimes, however, people just crumble and completely reverse themselves, like Woodrow Wilson did after the Lusitania (though I still think his major mistake was more not getting the Republicans to sign Versailles than it was entering WWI).  If we have someone who has already weathered high-profile political pressure, we can better predict what they will do as president, rather than roll the dice.

This is also why I thought that it was important to get someone who actually voted against the war as a nominee, rather than someone who opposed it from outside Washington.  

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by: Valatan @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 20:59:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The Pressure Test IS Crucial (0.00 / 0)

I agree wholeheartedly re the Iraq War vote.  And my feelings only intensified as Obama repeatedly ducked chances to take principled stands and ask tough questions.

On the plus side, I guess, we can pressure him, too.

Not sure that's a silver line.  Probably more like pewter.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 22:58:08 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well, Pewter IS pretty malleable. (0.00 / 0)

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by: Valatan @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 23:03:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Erstwhile Jeweler (0.00 / 0)

Tell me about it!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 23:43:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I've read that she's only passed .. (0.00 / 0)

two pieces of legislation .. whether that includes state budgets or not .. I am not sure .. but I read somewhere that the state legislature is only in session for like 90 days a year

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by: Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 21:47:16 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yeah, it's a non-professional legislature (0.00 / 0)

so the sessions are brief and infrequent, compared to most state legislatures.

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by: Valatan @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 21:48:16 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

24/7 idiocy (4.00 / 2)

that, my friends is the Republican vision for America.

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by: T Maysle @ Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 20:38:44 PM UTC