The Obamathon

by: SouthFrankfort

Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 10:07


(A COMPLETELY different view of the campaign--not as a debate of ideas, but as sit-com in which the candidates play typical sorts of roles to win our sympathy, identification and support.   - promoted by Paul Rosenberg)

Panic is not an option for everybody. If you are of modest means, the struggle to survive will not change that much under four more years of Republican rule. The global recession will change things for the well-off more than for me.

But the last two weeks, on balance, have not been good. I was one of Obama's earliest supporters. I have never criticized him. I have contributed and volunteered.

Now I think I understand why he might fall short. I think there's a new equation, and he must solve it.

SouthFrankfort :: The Obamathon
The Repub VP choice represented a sort of admission by that party that the issues-based campaign was a loser. But that choice has changed the dynamics of the race.

Every day since the day after Invesco, waves of attacks have been aimed at SP. Josh Marshall is apoplectic, and a wing of the punditry too, because the attacks are justified responses to open lies.

The thing is, her abuses of power are forgivable, and the lying marked down as accidental, IF you are strongly impelled to defend SP. Remarks by voters in Lebanon OH seemed instructive. The famous "stupid voters" can attach themselves to SP's image-on-TV easily.

In addition, the Republicans are laying down a barrage of artillery support for SP, in a way that precisely takes advantage of lessons learned by Democrats about rapid response. The wolf ad, the sex ed ad, the "he called her a pig" flap - it's like a kind of video game. It takes too long for the guns of the blogs and the papers to burn through particular lies and outrageous accusations. After a day or two the Republicans just sort of leave the point moot - in the meantime, the acrimony has made a few more people feel that both sides are equally "mean". So in this context, rapid response doesn't make you a counterpuncher. It is the Repubs who are just jabbing, jabbing, and when the response comes, they just fade back and launch another attack from another angle.

------------------

Let's go through the elements of the immediate situation. Obama never gives anyone a chance to call him black. He's hardly put a foot wrong. The attacks that have been made on him are scurrilous - in rational terms. But like the hero of the Seventh Seal, the Republicans have tipped over the chess board to cheat Death. The choice of SP was the first shot is moving the culture war from cold to hot.

In order to try to say what I think Obama should or must do, I will employ a device called sitcom logic.

Let's stipulate that there's a group of voters that don't take their civic duties seriously - people who seem capable of voting against their own rational interests in favor of some kind of Gemeinschaft or Gemutlichkeit of race or gender. We can be kinder and say that America has produced a lot of people who have allowed their lives to trick them into working like crazy, really for little reward. When they get home they want to eat and watch TV. They don't want to be upset. If they feel positively about something, it's expressed irrationally because of the way the news is presented. If they feel negatively about something, they could end up "just not liking" someone whose programs would benefit them.

The full extent of the culture of marriage and family has been denied to many of these people. As a substitute, they have television shows, not all of which are sitcoms, but which develop TV personae, images and characters, according to a sitcom logic. Remember, sitcoms themselves were an "advance" in television toward the presentation of  "real" people.

The point is leverage. If you can get a demographic to identify with a TV character, their opinion can be influenced with greater intensity and greater coverage than ad campaigns can achieve. "Attraction is better than promotion."

Americans rely, not on individual shows, but on this general way of evaluating what acceptable behavior is. Ad campaigns can be hung one after another on a solid character that resonates with a public.

SP is being asked to be such a character. Actually, she is only being asked to be herself. She's a ditz - but there are millions of women who will forgive her misstatements because they get "smacked down" for things they say or do. She obviously went off on a trooper and then on his boss in an administratively klutzy way - but she did it for her sister. Her daughter's pregnancy was the real tipoff. While Democrats were hoping that would upset the fundies! SP picked up sympathy for ALL of it.

Women will be pulled to SP by tidal forces the way blacks were eventually pulled in by Obama. They couldn't pass it up. Although I think women will prove much less of a bloc vote, the danger to Obama is clear. Feminism has always shadowed the civil rights movement, and blacks have often rejected that equivalence.

I know this is an irrational argument. In fact it's not an argument at all, but a description of feelings. On the topic of argument, though, consider this problem in sitcom logic. On television, things are different than they are in real life. In real life, many women are dependent on men. But on sitcoms, women are much more independent, and on TV in general. On TV, women seldom have to wait their turn to speak. And as for arguing - nobody can out-argue a female main character, above all not a male main character. The very attempt invites disaster. In sitcoms, man who throw their weight around end up being made fun of and humiliated.

SP can lie, exaggerate, and play with her emotions in any argument. As long as the pace of new kerfuffles keeps up, she will be seen by some women as merely defending her dignity, that is, her logical right not to lose ANY argument with a man.

------------------

There is a little more to it.

To date SP has displayed two weaknesses - none having to do with any gaffes or misdeeds. She is literally unassailable for some women, because she is a woman and a mother.

First, in her acceptance speech, she was seen by many, including many women, as mean or catty. They expressed their dislike of this because they didn't want it to interfere with their liking her.

Second, women in sitcoms who try to throw their weight around get laughed at too. Her new will wear off, it can wear off.

I think the Repubs acted because they felt Obama had crossed the trust barrier at Invesco. He was leading the parade. A large majority of people think Obama is qualified. But some of these people are demanding that he be more likable, in effect.

This demand is legitimate in sitcom logic and in politics. George Bush is no worse a president today than he was eight years ago. But people are sick of seeing his face on television. Obama too is a little overexposed because of the primary season's length.

Let's say that the stupid voters (and some others) are viewers of The Government Show, that comes on several times a day. They are not choosing an instrument to carry out a program. They are contracting a relationship. The president is the father - or mother - of a country. Consider successful sitcom fathers (the ones everybody else works around are more numerous) - Cosby, the father on Fresh Prince (who is still the butt of a lot of jokes).

Women dominate these situations. However, SP does have some of the characteristics of a typical sitcom ditz. Her voice grates. Her nickname - barracuda - goes to the fact that's she's a schemer. This is a recognizable character, and not a well liked one. Many women in big roles in sitcoms and in reality TV are talkative gladhanding schemers.

I always "bury the lede" because I'm not a journalist. But I feel able to conclude that Obama must risk engaging the enemy on this ground, on television.

This cannot have anything to do with classic ad campaigns. If Axelrod and Plouffe are rock-ribbed conventional then we'll have to wait until things seem even worse. And maybe they'll get better! God knows I hope so. But Obama might have to go on television in a different way.

In effect, Obama and SP are now the main characters in a sitcom-like season of The Government Show. This season, the power of pundits and anchors to drive the news will be limited. It is a year of comeuppances. Hillary had hers, and the GOP VP losers had theirs. And the journos and TV talking heads that are now trying to hold SP's feet to the fire may have theirs. I think Chris Matthews has already demonstrated this. After Invesco he was talking about running against Specter. Now he sees a few days of bad polling and he's already tacking toward Audie Murphy.

When the Republicans drop the lies they maintain and the "Quick Willie (Horton)" attacks they are running, the press will not have the time to pursue them.

So in the sitcom world, Obama can be set opposite SP.

In this world, the special nature of black people, as long as they are reasonably well-intentioned, is recognized. That's why the TV president didn't have to wait long to be black.

The special nature of women is also compensated, partly as a function of the ethics of sitcom behavior, partly as a riposte to the perceived stereotypical weaknesses of women compared to men in daily life.

Sitcoms are not soaps. In soaps, no conflict ever ends. On sitcoms, all conflicts must end with the episode.

How can Obama muffle or cushion the shock of TV-SP? Within sitcom logic, she is challenging his authority.

McCain is nowhere in this situation. The people of America want him to be an icon, but they don't want to see his face. McCain will just try to backpedal during the debates. The Repubs remember that the worst scare they got in 2004 was after Bush was "mean" in the first debate. They'd love to have Obama come out combative in the debates. (Although that too could backfire on them.) Biden is nowhere. He and McCain are not main characters. McCain is like "the owner". SP will express McCain. McCain will echo SP. He's racking up points with women by staying out of her way and not correcting her or dominating her in any way.

Obama has to create a venue where he can do several things at once. He has to "come home" and confront ALL the attacks made on him at once. More than that, he can't "refute" them because in the TV world, argument is not a connected series of propositions leading logically to a conclusion. It is a form of battle.

He must suffer and be seen to suffer - and yet this suffering must not disturb his calm or scar him. The audience must be catered to, not accused.

For every attack, there is a proper response. The sex ed ad should be countered by a reminder of his cute daughters. Of course that one's gone by now.

On television, Barack could pet a wolf. He could put lipstick on a real pig (with double-entendres out the ass), and then let them come out against that in high dudgeon. Mr. and Mrs. America want to laugh, folks. They want the Government Show to be happy sometimes, even through the gloom of recession.

He could invite the Republican ticket to meet him on Oprah. He could go on Oprah for a week, and let them scream bias. The Obamathon. He could take nasty calls from "folks" around the country and let everybody see how he reacts to stories of tragedy.

To be honest, if I hear how he lifted the steel workers on the South Side of Chicago out of their despair one more time I'll scream. I was gob-smacked by the repetitiveness of the speeches at the Dem convention because it was so obvious.

Just as tightly managed as the convention was - just that loose does he need to get in some venue. The great advantage is that on TV he is invulnerable. All attacks from others on the same bill, or from callers, will just be opportunities to handle people nicely. It's not exactly "Hola Presidente!" but it's close. He should take calls from Pennsyltucky, and chat equably with people who admit that they can't vote for him because he's black. Another thing - if handled correctly, a very open setting like this is almost gaffe-proof. Obama will make gaffes. But the audience, and maybe Ellen, and other demographic second bananas will immediately punish him! His wife could even shake her head. Obama must show a willingness to admit mistakes. He must say he loves us, and ask our forgiveness if we love him. Even the worst attackers must be accepted like disliked characters on sitcoms. Nobody is torched, or if they are stung by a joke, they are allowed back in to laugh at themselves too.

In such a situation, Obama could be Obama, something he hasn't been since the "typical white person" remark. A breathtaking wager on openness. He's a happy man, that's obvious. He would get a chance to show his cute sense of humor.

The ratings would be incredible.

The Democrats have tried to get over top of SP. They need to get underneath, submarine her in the manner of Brazilian jiu-jitsu.

A whistle stop tour could have done it, but Obama is all over the map already.

I want him on TV talking to people for long periods of time. Not just town hall questioning. A mixed program in which he gets to talk about policies...but every few minutes something new, some new person from somewhere in America calls in, and Barack like King David sits patiently in the mercy seat.

He has to be seen to be hurt, but to master his feelings. The sex ed ad would have hurt someone's feelings in a sitcom. But we can't exile the enemy to the outer depths in a sitcom. They will be back again tomorrow. In this way sitcoms are more moral than politics; on sitcoms the actors know they cannot campaign for their rivals' destruction. (On soaps that's all you do, but it never quite comes true.)

And of course there's nothing wrong with raising money during a TV show. the Obamathon. Put a dollar counter against a wall, and I bet money the Republicans will put up the same kind of show and the same kind of counter.

------------

I realize this note is longer than bloggers like. I can't do anything about that. I'm compressing as much as I can.

I have two closing remarks.

First, the global situation is heating up. Hurricanes, fires, floods, bankruptcies, repossessions, Russia and Pakistan, unemployment risin' fast, the Beatles' new record's a gas. It's a ball of confusion. A global recession is a virtual certainty. More of a wrench for rich people than for poor, really. But not only end-timers will feel the desperation of both sides in this campaign.

Obama has been out campaigning. There's a lot of time left. When I saw the Dublin OH rally, I thought, they're going to redo Invesco everywhere on a smaller scale. And maybe that will work, along with the much-ballyhooed voter registration drives and the thousand field offices.

But if the polls don't level out... It seems that Georgia is gone, and maybe North Carolina. Alaska is gone, and maybe Montana. Can Obama bring maximum force to bear in one state, like Virginia or Colorado, and steamroller a win? Or will election day chicanery be the difference again?

Second: John McCain will try to be the eminence grise of the campaign. If Obama can't stop doing rallies to try some unconventional television, then there is one other way. Any anger shown by McCain will sink him. He'll be on his best behavior, but he hates Obama and he hates his running mate. Speaking not from sitcom logic but from Washington logic: McCain is filled with hate. He is a very, very prideful man. Use Keating. Use Iseman. Test SP's ability to defend and inoculate him.

Either Obama exposes himself to attack freely (in order to gather the attacks together in one place), or the campaign goes dirty for dirty. Cosby Show or National Enquirer. Your choice. If McCain moves into a clear lead, I'll need considerable help in trusting in the ground game.  


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The Obamathon | 45 comments
good analysis (0.00 / 0)
I like your "sitcom" metaphor, it's intriguing.  Thanks for writing this.

You should re-title this diary, however, to attract more readers.


done (0.00 / 0)
I meant to do that.

Looks like I picked a good day to come here.


[ Parent ]
But a bad day... (0.00 / 0)
to stop sniffing glue.

miasmo.com

[ Parent ]
Me no understand (0.00 / 0)
Me no understand complicated post on blog. Me used to magazines, twitter, short...

Nice posting, thoughtful.


what? (0.00 / 0)
   SouthFrankfort, you seem intelligent and well-intended.
  But I could not really understand your post.
  It seems that you are saying that many American voters are irrational, and respond to personality rather than issues. I agree with your assessment. It is old news.
  Then you create this elaborate metaphor of the election as televison, as a sitcom and not a soap opera. That metaphor is lengthy and vague. It does not seem too helpful.
  At the end, I was unclear on two points: (1) What strategy should Obama follow? (2) Why that strategy, and not some other?

Luke 12:48 "to whom much is given, of him shall much be required". Would Jesus want progressive taxation, or regressive taxation?

It's not a metaphor (0.00 / 0)
It's an analysis. It's an attempt to explain how a large number of voters actually relate to the events and (especially) personalities of the campaign.

I think it's very insightful and (potentially) very powerful. I think the post does propose a strategy (or a choice of two strategies). The reason to choose one of those strategies is simply this: they are ways to appeal to a huge number of voters who have the particular kind of tenuous, emotional connection to events that the post describes.

I have to say I'm not yet 100% convinced this analysis is accurate, but I'm definitely intrigued enough to give it some serious reflection. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, SouthFrankfort.


[ Parent ]
So, Even If Karl Rove Calls In, At Worst He's Newman??? (0.00 / 0)
Even the worst attackers must be accepted like disliked characters on sitcoms.

Not so sure tht Jerry accepted Newman.  But, then, Seinfeld was the exception that proves the rule so far as sitcoms go.

I don't agree with everything here, but I think it does a better job of capturing the essential dynamics than any of the "standard" descriptions of the campaign that are out there.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Newman!!! (0.00 / 0)
Even accepting the election-as-TV show analogy, why sit-com rather than soap opera, crime drama, reality show, etc.? I don't know if I buy any of it. He could be on to something, but I wouldn't base a campaign strategy on it without some empirical evidence to back it up.

I do know that McCain is an angry self-entitled jerk. It seems like a no brainer to  try to draw out that anger in a debate.

Here's my analysis:

McCain played the experience card and it failed. Now he's trying to play his own change card, based on three things - his "character," mavericky spunk in opposition to pork and earmarks, and a demographically novel VP pick. That's all he's got. One of those things is undeniable and two of them are bullshit, so just proceed to annihilate McCain's character and debunk the anti-pork passion. The target of all attacks on Palin should be McCain's breathtaking insincerity on pork-fighting and his lack of character for caving to the "agents of intolerance" and his pathological lying and general sleaze.

He's already withdrawn the experience card himself. Take away character and mavericky pork-battling and he's left with "Vote for me because my running mate has a vagina!"

My $0.02

[And don't let any woman vote for McCain not knowing what the consequences will be for reproductive freedom.]

miasmo.com


[ Parent ]
Why Sit-Com? (4.00 / 1)
I think the key is here:

The full extent of the culture of marriage and family has been denied to many of these people. As a substitute, they have television shows, not all of which are sitcoms, but which develop TV personae, images and characters, according to a sitcom logic. Remember, sitcoms themselves were an "advance" in television toward the presentation of  "real" people.

The point is leverage. If you can get a demographic to identify with a TV character, their opinion can be influenced with greater intensity and greater coverage than ad campaigns can achieve. "Attraction is better than promotion."

Sitcoms have a generality greater than other genres.  Even with radically different settings, the basic logic remains much more invariant than with dramas.  Plus, there's the relatively closed character--tensions raised and resolved within one episode, a limited number of characters, relatively weak or even absent longer narrative arcs and character development.

All this makes it much easier to plug into as a frame of reference.  It's just a matter of how you feel about the main characters, and everything else feeds off of or into that.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Hmmm... (0.00 / 0)
Thanks for clarifying the premise a bit.

I get the part about people relating to sitcoms because of their generality and as a substitute for "the full extent of the culture of marriage and family [that] has been denied to many of these people." In other words, I understand how sit-coms fill an emotional need for many people. It is not obvious to me though that people would necessarily view a presidential campaign within this framework. People who watch sit-coms also watch serial type shows like 24 that actually have presidents and vice presidents as characters and have story arcs that stretch across a whole season.

I would think that an equal case could be made for reality shows as the prism through which people judge candidates. The sit-com model feels more intuitive to me, but that's just because I don't watch reality shows. But apparently tons of people do.

The guy may be onto something, but for Obama to base a real campaign on this kind of pop-psychology speculation would make me extremely nervous. It makes for an interesting discussion, though, and I'm all for anything that makes us think.

miasmo.com


[ Parent ]
As Opposed To What, Though??? (0.00 / 0)
The guy may be onto something, but for Obama to base a real campaign on this kind of pop-psychology speculation would make me extremely nervous. It makes for an interesting discussion, though, and I'm all for anything that makes us think.

First off, I don't see this as "pop psychology" which has long been a derogatory catch-phrase that fails to distinguish between fads, trends, myths and lies vs. things that are absolutely true, but which require proper context in order to provide sound guidance.  For that matter, Obama's deliberate focus on personal stories and conversion experiences is itself already wedded to "pop psychology," so this would hardly represent a new departure.

More significantly, the core of this argument is not psychological so much as it is narrative.  Yes, there are psychological components to it, but any sort of campaign/political analysis has psychological components to it, whether those are conscious or not, conventional or not.

The Democrats have a long history of running losing campaigns based on their existing framework of assumptions about voter psychology.  This alone should counter the normal bias toward preferring existing assumptions over new ideas.  The tie should go to the new ideas, not the status quo.

This does not hold, obviously, where one has specific counter-arguments and contrary evidence.  But when it's simply a matter of hypotheses, sticking with the CW seems hard to justify.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
The playing field constantly changes. (0.00 / 0)
Yes, there are psychological components to it, but any sort of campaign/political analysis has psychological components to it, whether those are conscious or not, conventional or not.

Good point.

The Democrats have a long history of running losing campaigns based on their existing framework of assumptions about voter psychology.  This alone should counter the normal bias toward preferring existing assumptions over new ideas.  The tie should go to the new ideas, not the status quo.

Well, it seems like the practical recommendation being made is some kind of call-in show where Obama shows how likable he is by answering questions that include hostile callers. It's almost like the O'Reilly interview he subjected himself to. I would hope that his campaign focus grouped that so they can get a feel for how that type of thing influences voters.

As for the failure of "their existing framework of assumptions," I think part of the problem is an ever-shifting playing field. The corporate media wants conservatives to win. What worked for Bush doesn't work for Kerry. What worked against Kerry doesn't work against McCain. What worked against Obama is off limits for Palin. One of the foundations of existing assumptions is a belief in a solid earth under the playing field that doesn't constantly twist and contort depending on which side is using which tactic. I see no reason to assume that any tactic that should work in theory, would actually work when the refs are making all the calls for the other side regardless of what happens. What is good for a Republican is bad for a Democrat. A Vietnam war heroes marries a wealthy heiress and runs for president. Is he a hero whose character is unassailable and whose fortune represents the American Dream of success through hard work and determination? Or a cowarly traitor whose fortune proves that he's a frivolous gigolo and an out of touch elitist? It just depends on which party he represents.

So SouthFrankfort's idea could be brilliant... for a Republican. But with the game rigged, it might play just like the "long history of running losing campaigns" that Democrats have.

Sorry, I'm rambling. Maybe the answer is to start treating the corporate media as the opponents they are and try to discredit and/or confuse them.

miasmo.com


[ Parent ]
Yes, We Need To Run Against The Media (4.00 / 1)
and the double-standard only gets more ludicrous with every cycle.  And the Versailles Dems are oblivious to all of this.

All of which points to what I like about this analysis and the suggestions it leads to: it's about stepping outside the boxes and taking a fresh look.  What it leads to very well could work.

By the next cycle it could not, but there's a window of opportunity there right now, and I say we should enter it.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Too deep for me ... (0.00 / 0)
Didn't understand even half of it ..

... but you do reiterate something I think is true. McCain has anger management issues so Obama should keep riling him until he snaps.

Its low, but McCain chose the weapons.


If It Saves Us From Two Or Three Wars (0.00 / 0)
I really don't see anything low about it.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
It definitely is a different tack. (4.00 / 1)
Rather than going equally negative, go more likable is what I take from this.

If he can turn McCain/Palin into the sitcom villians, then their attacks will only encourage sympathy to Obama.


Well-done (4.00 / 1)
I don't agree with your entire post, but I do agree with what I think is the main conclusion: Obama should do SOMETHING procedurally (as opposed to substantively) to change the "sit-com" dynamic, like getting him to interact with voters in a different manner.

One possibility, I think, is more appearances like he had on Letterman, where he seemed a bit more natural. But that appearance was just a tiny start.  I'd like to see him somehow engage in "retail" politicking, yet do so on the national stage. And if there was one thing I could change about his persona, it would be to lighten up and REALLY display that sense of humor, which I think could be a great asset.  Since he's already passed the "presidential" threshold, there would be little risk in getting more personal.


Donahue format (0.00 / 0)
He could go on Oprah (or any of the current Donahue mutations) and answer questions from the audience, town hall style.

miasmo.com

[ Parent ]
great post, please keep it up (4.00 / 1)
this is one of the better meta analysis of the race post SP that ive read so far.  although i dont think the dems will ever win the presidency unless a significant chunk of voters stop viewing politics as a sitcom.  be interested to see how you think we got here and how we get out of it.  another post, another time.  

maybe this is why bill clinton was and is so popular.  dude is straight out of a blue collar sitcom.  

anyways if this election hinges on this demographic (and im almost positive it does) why not keep hammering away at the mccain = bush meme?  who wants to watch the mccain/SP show for the next 4 years if its just going to be a crappy rerun of the show they are already sick of?  who wants to watch "joey" when we are already sick of "friends"?  


The Rerun Argument Is A Good One, But Needs Saturation Advertising (4.00 / 1)
I agree with the rerun argument, but it has to be made experiential. People have to feel the nauseating weariness with it all.

Seeing McCain hugging Bush one or two times won't do it.  Seeing it 20 or 30 times starts to make a difference, IMHO.

Ending every single ad with that shot wouldn't be a bad idea.

Then, the last week, switch to the cake photo.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Agreed (4.00 / 1)
Overkill is the key.  When people start talking about how sick of the ads they are, you'll know its working.  When the McCain camp cries to the refs (the media) that its overkill, untrue and unfair to keep comparing the maverick reformer to bush, you know its working.  

During the debates, obama should say (or some variation thereof), no less than 10 times (even when it doesn't make sense):

"you know senator, that sounds great but I remember President Bush saying the same thing 4 years ago and look how that turned out.  You two sure do think alike." then cue the rolling of the eyes by obama, then a quick smile.  McCain will go bananas, probably around the third or fourth time Obama says it.  

It also wouldn't hurt to actually start running ads titled: "RERUN."  Cut to footage of Bush on the trail in 2004, smiling, making jokes, big promises, cue the laugh track sitcom style.  Then graphics with the dreary economic stats under bush. then the announcer comes on, "not so funny actually."  Then quick montage of Bush and McCain together, rapid fire images, cake, the hug, etc.  Then back to announcer: "Do we really want another 4 years of reruns of these two?"  


[ Parent ]
We know McCain is Grandpa Simpson (0.00 / 0)
But, which sit-com characters best fit the pop-cultural image of the others?

Sarah Palin kinda reminds me of the mother on Malcolm in the Middle. For no particular reason.

Is it meaningful that I can't relate to Obama and Biden as sit-com characters?

Interesting analyses.  I've been interested in sit-coms ever since I first learned how to change the channel. Very Jungian, actually.  Archetypal. I think that's why people can watch them over and over and over.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


Lois Wilkerson? Not A Chance! (0.00 / 0)
Sarah Palin could only dream of being 1/10th as moral as Malcolm's mom.  

I'm not that much of sit-com watcher, so a good match doesn't come readily to mind.  But this week's Bones did have an annoying, self-promoting suck-up grad student assistant wannabe who reminded me of Palin.  She was clearly more competent than Palin, but also more transparently annoying.

Not a sit-com, or a regular, though.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Good point on the "morality" issue (0.00 / 0)
I was focused on looks, I guess.

Maybe Angela from "The Office"?


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
she's the principal from "Parker Lewis Can't Lose" (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
response from South Frankfort (0.00 / 0)
I didn't get to follow the commentary as it was posted, I'll try to respond now. I would like to say I'm happy to have been taken halfway seriously by Paul Rosenberg, who I've exchanged comments with before (on My DD, before Open Left). I'm sorry I couldn't draw a call from Stoller, who has claimed in the past to know something about philosophy;)

What I'm saying is that there is a large number of voters who relate to the campaign as a television show. That first and foremost. And what they want is to be entertained. In a way, I'm saying that news has become entertainment - that with SP, the change is complete. We're seeing this now. God knows I hope the polls level off. But the pundits and anchors will stop pursuing the truth about Republican claims and smears if they don't. They don't have the courage to keep up the pressure in the face of polls that show people's preference - a form of liking, akin to entertainment - swinging toward the GOP.

It's really very simple. SP has no "narrative", just a television image. SP is fun. As with any TV show, the tease is everything. A television image addresses the imagination, not your civic duty. People who are not good at thinking about issues, or who are too tired, get a boost from imagining what The Government Show would be like under these Repubs. McCain would not appear often. SP would appear often, and she would be entertaining and fun. Many possibilities suggest themselves.

This imagination does have a historical aspect. The historic aspect of Obama's candidacy is clear to all voters. But the fake-historic candidacy of SP might have just as much effect as long as things stay on the imaginary plane, not the rational. Black people eventually accepted Obama as the bearer of their historic claim to equality. Women will feel a similar pull. The more a woman votes based on imagination, feelings, sitcom logic and personal sympathy, the more she will be willing to forgive SP for ANY faults.

There are breaking points, of course. If SP does or says something that reveals her as egotistical or mean-spirited, some women may decide she does NOT deserve to be the bearer of their historic claim to equality. But this would have to be pretty egregious. Lacking a "smoking gun" - and remember,  we need IMAGINARY "proof", not rational proof - SP's image will not suffer from constant attacks the way a male politician's would. It could even go the other way, because many women consider themselves to be an oppressed minority, and attacks will reinforce this image-based identification and solidarity. Does SP seem beleaguered? Millions of women will simply feel to themselves, "me, too".

It could be that we are in the process of new developments in the life-cycle of such imaginary attachment. It should be compared with things like the conversion of Angelina Jolie from a disliked persona to a much-loved one - or the conversion of Michael Jackson into "Jacko". I will even say that should the worst occur, there is every likelihood that SP would end up one of the most hated politicians in American history. But this is unlikely to happen in two months.

In other words, there may not be a way to tear SP down in that time. If polls continue to show us down - and I hope they don't - it might be advisable to think of OBAMA in these same imagistic terms, to see if we can build up his brand in terms of sitcom logic.

Obama has oddly enough managed to neutralize his own skin color. His potential support falls into two categories. For me, as for many, he is a fitting symbol for OUR imagination of what America should be (and the world agrees).

But there is another group of voters who are not bowled over by Obama. And his entire effort has been to reassure them. Pennsyltucky voters, for example, are in a land passed over by American history. They are half-feudal, and would assume that Obama stands for rewarding black people. To counter this, Obama is seldom seen with black people, and not a single black person is identified with him - always remembering that we are talking in "television terms". Even the dustup with Jesse Jackson could have been intentional (though I don't think it was). (The nearest approach to such an identification was one the Repubs created, with Wright.)

I believe that Invesco was a turning point. The Repubs realized that Americans who didn't particularly LIKE Obama had come to see him as competent and well-intentioned. The issues-based campaign was a winner for him,a loser for them. So they reversed course violently, to try to make this election about personal liking, to pit gender identification against race identification.

So the problem is not how to make Obama likable; it is how to make him liked. Bottom line, even at the imaginary level, it's still an advantage in leadership terms to BE A MAN. But now that SP has activated all the values of a positive TV image for a woman - mother, active, attractive woman, forceful speaker, "first woman", fighter - we must consider the positive image values for a man.

I tried to say in my main post that these values revolved around the image of a father. But the active ingredient in all this is SUFFERING. As a woman, SP has "suffered as all women do" the inequality of a world dominated by men. But women have divided loyalties. They root for a woman who has suffered AS THEY HAVE, and who has overcome to some extent - by bearing many children, by fighting to succeed, by daring to speak, all things that cost women pain.

But women are also loyal to men. The President is a father - and a kind of King. In imaginary terms, this father-king is not a figure of domination, precisely because the idea of the king involves suffering on behalf of the people. (The analysis of domination is a rational analysis.) The desire to see women equal to men in not as powerful as the sympathy felt for the king that loves us, the one who hurts when we hurt, because we hurt. The father-king is saddened but not angered by petty attacks. The father-king loves his people (that's why I have argued for 18 months that Obama needs to be talking about love). He loves them so much that he does not blame them for what's wrong in the country, or for their personal faults.

This love cannot simply be proclaimed, but must be expressed, in imagistic terms, by a demeanor that is completely unflappable, leavened with gentle humor (not sarcasm).

I criticized the poverty, the thinness, of Obama's backstory. I could have said the same about the way he (and Hillary for that matter) have worked in the stories of "the people they meet". These are not effective (although the people who were allowed to speak for themselves at Invesco were unusually effective, and that should be remembered). What is needed are live encounters - perhaps managed to some degree - with people who have a complaint. Because the single thing the people most desire from the father-king is JUSTICE. That's what the king does: he dispenses justice tempered with mercy.

In other words, I want Obama to go on television, not to make a speech, or to discuss an issue, but to BE the image of a great President. He must show that he can laugh at himself. He must show that he is big enough to take a correction from a woman. He must show that he is humbled by the suffering of ordinary people, by listening to them, and then he must make a believable promise to help them, in at least some cases individually (in other cases he can say, "my plan to do such and such will help you," but not in every case). He must accept without anger even unjustified attacks from ordinary people, and express hope that he will be able to earn their trust someday.

This all probably seems outlandish, but it shouldn't, because people act like this on television all the time. The same thing happens with major male film stars who have to go out and sign autographs and meet fans. If they are polite, and if they give of their time with good grace, everybody is charmed. If they are short-tempered and sarcastic, people are infuriated.

I believe that sometime in April, Obama hit a kind of wall, physically and emotionally. His pivot to the center dates from then, although I think he is physically recovered. I think he was a little shocked by the demands of the campaign, and he began to seem more and more like a technocrat. He pulled his emotions out of play to some extent, perhaps horrified by some of the attacks on his wife. (His conversation with the British conservative leader may have revealed a little of this attitude.)

By rights, he should be able to keep his own life and his emotions to himself. But unfortunately we haven't been teaching our citizens about their civic rights and duties, and that's why we have this large bloc of voters who have to be dealt with in emotional, imaginary terms. Obama must expose himself to the voters. He must submit to them. I honestly don't think race is an issue for that many voters, but the charge of elitism is very important. The response that says that Obama is not an elitist in economic terms is not on point. The charge of elitism simply indicates that Obama doesn;'t love us enough. It's not a symmetrical charge. McCain doesn't have to love us, because ever since Teddy drove off the bridge, it's been true: Republicans only have to seem competent, even if that means competent thieves and liars. Democrats must be pure as angels and humble as Christ, because we all know they're going to ask us to help them change the world.

Jesus wept, and Barack needs to. On television.

One final word: I strongly believe that the Repubs have found a way to wrong-foot Democratic rapid-response capability. The whole point of rapid response is to get into the position of the counterpuncher. The Swift-boat smear comes in but the response is stronger. However, the Repubs are managing to work a kitchen-sink strategy involving an unprecedentedly large NUMBER of attacks - none of which are going to be sustained. They put out a scurrilous attack, and then they drop it immediately, before the response from the Democratic campaign or from pundits and anchors can connect. They are exactly like fighters who only jab, and then retreat, leaving the opponent swinging at air.



[ Parent ]
Rapid Response (0.00 / 0)
Unlike some others here, I found most of this pretty straightforward, though clearly outside the limited CW framework.  It was also clearly expressed.  So I don't want to go over things again which already seem well-said.

That leaves me to address one point, which requires rather less of an imaginative departure from the brain-dead CW world, and that is the issue you bring up in the last paragraph.  I agree entirely with your analysis, but I think there's at least a two-fold response possible.

One is simply to go on the attack.  Lord knows, there's enough to do this on--and I've got a new diary up about one way one might do that--"'I Am Not A Crook'--The Anti-Palin/McCain Ad Obama OUGHT To Run".

A second is to make a joke of it, and attack the whole strategy at once.  Maybe have Obama in a Home Depot, looking at kitchen sinks, he looks up and says:

"Hi, I'm Barack Obama, and I think I've found what John McCain is looking for.  He's thrown everything at me but the kitchen sink, so obviously he can't find one that's not installed in one of his many houses.

Well, there are plenty of them here, Johm.  No need to hurl absurd accusations about things I never said or did.  And no need to resort to ridiculous interpretations of things that I did say or do.  Just come on down here, and buy yourself a kitchen sink to throw at me.  It's okay.  I'm fast enough to take of myself.  Just like I'll take care of America, once I'm elected.

This second approach starts going in the direction you propose, and actually I like the idea of using both approaches in combination.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Oh geez (0.00 / 0)
This is plain silly business.  In your view, its oddly just women who are living the sitcom mentality, stuck between the first woman and the father king.  Give me a break- the real problem is that the Obama mania was a masculine fantasy of the Great One Who Will Save Us and once Hillary Clinton was trounced by the testosterone vision of salvation, all the juice went out of the Obama campaign.  The motivation of Obama mania seemed to be to kill the great devouring mother.  Once that was done, well, what was really left?  But no, lets blame in on women living in sitcoms.  Ridiculous theory and unworthy of Open Left.

occupational hazard (0.00 / 0)
I'm not a sexist, but it's hard to talk about these things in active, compressed language (I've already set records for long posts) and keep the line between imaginary and real analysis bright at all times.

I'm looking at a small tranche of undecided voters, particularly but not exclusively women, who might make their choice based on television images of SP.

I think I have a good handle on what SP is "really like", but it doesn't matter if I do or not. When I talk about her negative imaginary characteristics - not her real ones - I'm probing for weaknesses. I'm using reported focus group data from the post-Repub convention (without a link).

It comes down to saying that if SP could be made to look mean or petty, some of the image-choosers might back away. Everybody has positive and negative TV characteristics. There's nothing fair about it, and nothing real. McCain's biggest problem is that his face is bad, and he looks 85 on television. Is this his fault?

As far as the king and the mother are concerned, it's not "sexist" to say that there is still a deep-seated tilt, which certainly may be only historical (that is, partly accidental), in favor of males in authority. Naturally, higher education attenuates that. But a male who is actively exercising the attributes of the "father of the country" could benefit from the prejudice.

There are gender roles in society. They have to be reckoned with in elections. I'm not endorsing gender roles that are restrictive, and that certainly cut us off from areas of the ownmost possibilities of human being. I'll go further and say that everything I'm recommending counts as emergency measures, to be taken in defense of rational democracy, and I would expect eight years of an Obama administration to result in a much healthier body politic in respect of gender roles. My recommendations amount to shameless pandering - which is only to be justified by the use of shameful pandering on the other side.

I'm clear about that. But I'm also clear that Obama's primary campaign was anything but some nut-pumping trouncing of Hillary Clinton. In fact, Obama showed pretty admirable restraint as Mrs. Clinton made misstep after misstep. I'm honored/Shame on you (the reversal). Tuzla. NAFTA. Knocking back shots. McCain more qualified.

Hillary ALMOST tarnished a great accomplishment. Obama was much more respectful toward her than most Dems.

I'm grateful for Paul Rosenberg's defense of my position. Confusing my argument with vulgar sexism is a bit much. And considering the sort of things that gain great currency on blogs these days, it's a bit much to imply that I should not be afforded an opportunity to post here, being judged "unworthy of Open Left."

If I had not allowed myself to speak in rather breezy tones, if I had used the usual academic backing and filling, I would have run over 50 pages.

I don't agree with the approach that says that Obama's failure to pay attention to the difference between Target and Wal-Mart indicates why he fails to connect with rural voters. Obama is not like them. The effort to show that he is "in touch with their concerns" depends too much on unimportant characteristics. Does McCain "match up" with these people? And SP said she sure missed her chef. No, I want Obama to break through this problematic of identification by showing that he cares deeply for ordinary people DIRECTLY. "Caring"  and "love" are not mere constructs. Obama could help people by talking to them and listening to them, by directing them to concrete help and even by helping them himself, directly, through contacts or gifts. And if he does this on TV, and if old stereotypes are mobilized that we might wish ultimately to abandon in cultural terms, and if by this means he could rise above the tit for tat attacks (one of my main points is that rapid response is not working as expected) - is it so awful of me to tell him that if he feels like letting a tear fall during all this, go ahead?

I'm for what works. My impression is that if the polls don't look better in two weeks, we'll all be chewing Tums. I think everybody wants Obama to attack during the debates - and I'm very uncertain about the wisdom of that.

So, apart from the "get thee hence" with which you gifted me, I'm perfectly amenable to your crticisms, and I'll try to make my personal rejection of sexism clearer.

But I don't think you'll like my post on the significance of the sexual tension between Obama and Hillary;)


[ Parent ]
A Couple of Points (0.00 / 0)
McCain's biggest problem is that his face is bad, and he looks 85 on television. Is this his fault?

Actually, yes.  As the saying goes, "A man's face is his own fault after 40."

As far as the king and the mother are concerned, it's not "sexist" to say that there is still a deep-seated tilt, which certainly may be only historical (that is, partly accidental), in favor of males in authority.

While it's certainly influenced by historical factors which can make it more or less intense, the bias is virtually universal, as noted by Jim Sidanius and Felicia Pratto in there book Social Dominance: An Intergroup Theory of Social Hierarchy and Oppression, which provides the most comprehensive theory of group dominance in its various forms to date.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Come On (0.00 / 0)
>Women dominate these situations. However, SP does have some of the characteristics of a typical sitcom ditz. Her voice grates. Her nickname - barracuda - goes to the fact that's she's a schemer. This is a recognizable character, and not a well liked one. Many women in big roles in sitcoms and in reality TV are talkative gladhanding schemers.<

I can't believe I am even reading this.  Did you all learn NOTHING from women speaking out against the sexism directed at Hillary Clinton? Can it with the commentary on the voice, etc.  The Dems seem elitist and out of touch because Obama complains about the cost of arugala at Whole Foods, and most people in this country live no where near a Whole Foods and don't eat arugala.  That is the problem, not because they are idiots living in a sitcom.  if you are a political consultant, its no wonder that the Dems are getting worse and worse along these lines.  


Using Rightwing Talking Points At Open Left? (0.00 / 0)
Interesting lifestyle choice.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Not at all (0.00 / 0)
Just telling a little truth because I am tired of progressives feeling completely free to use sexist language to talk about Palin when they have plenty else they could talk about.  Even those who were more tentative about it with Hillary Clinton because they did like some of her policies now seem gleeful that they can do it.  I was speaking to a vulnerability that the Obama campaign has that they are NOT working on effectively and they are getting pounded because of it.   I have been in the beltway, and now I am outside of it, very far outside of it, which gives me more of a perspective of what is going wrong with the campaign.  I would love to see Obama's people get him on a better track with this, and I would love to see the surrogates go after Palin on her policies (and not her voice and some ridiculous sitcom analysis) and I would love to see progressive men knock off the sexism no matter which woman they might be talking about.  its just getting  painful, thats all.  Example of what I mean about the campaign- they have him out there talking about how his mother was once on food stamps, as though this proves his humble roots, when if they knew anything at all about working class folks they profess to care about, they would know that many people would rather eat dirt than go on food stamps, and Obama talking about how his mother did it is NOT helping.  Second example- he loves to say that Michele loves Target.  Well, for Christ sake Target is perceived as the upscale version of Kmart, Walmart, etc where the crunchy granola set buy their downscale furniture and cheap clothes.  For God's sake, don't they have anyone on the payroll that has any sensibility about this stuff??  Why am I sitting out here in the hitherlands making myself insane over it and they can't even see it??  

[ Parent ]
I Beg You Pardom But THIS Is A Rightwing Talking Point: (0.00 / 0)
The Dems seem elitist and out of touch because Obama complains about the cost of arugala at Whole Foods, and most people in this country live no where near a Whole Foods and don't eat arugala.  

And I was responding directly to it.

Now, where exactly is your example of anyone here using "sexist language to talk about Palin when they have plenty else they could talk about"?  Because I, for one, have been writting all about things like Troopergate, and earmarks and all that good old GOP corruption stuff, and I haven't one peep out of you.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
read the sitcom analysis (0.00 / 0)
with an eye towards sexism.  Its filled with it.  

[ Parent ]
Salon (0.00 / 0)
And, did you see the Salon dominatrix spot??  And the ongoing hysteria on some so called progressive blogs about what a terrible mother she must be for daring to run when she has a special needs baby?  And on and on.  I want it to stop and I want to hear a harsh critique of her lack of foreign policy experience, her far right views on social issues, her Assembly of God background, etc and not her voice, motherhood, etc.  Check out the Shakesville Palin sexism watch if you want ongoing examples, and of course you must know that like me, Shakesville is less than thrilled with Palin's policies.  

[ Parent ]
Lets see (0.00 / 0)
>The more a woman votes based on imagination, feelings, sitcom logic and personal sympathy, the more she will be willing to forgive SP for ANY faults.<

Maybe this?????


[ Parent ]
Not Even Close (0.00 / 0)
Here's the context of the complete paragraph:

This imagination does have a historical aspect. The historic aspect of Obama's candidacy is clear to all voters. But the fake-historic candidacy of SP might have just as much effect as long as things stay on the imaginary plane, not the rational. Black people eventually accepted Obama as the bearer of their historic claim to equality. Women will feel a similar pull. The more a woman votes based on imagination, feelings, sitcom logic and personal sympathy, the more she will be willing to forgive SP for ANY faults.

There's nothing here saying that women are more prone than men to vote "based on imagination, feelings, sitcom logic and personal sympathy."

If that were being said, then you'd have a valid point.

But it's not.

Trying to find sexism in this piece is particularly perverse, since the analysis is first presented with the ungendered terms "voters" and "people".  It only proceeds to talk about women in terms of the attempt to use Palin to cynically appeal to them, based on a fantasy identification, rather than anything real.

And since that means of fantasy identification was initially described in ungendered terms, there is nothing to suggest that the author thinks women are somehow special.  It's merely that they are specially targetted.

Indeed, if anything, this analysis is a feminist-informed critique about how false consciousness is manipulated.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I disagree (0.00 / 0)
Its certainly not feminist informed.  Its plain silly and hardly ungendered.  The author knows nothing about what kind of "pull" women will feel or what women might forgive.  Its insulting.  The father king?  How ludicrous.  Survival, yes. Gentle loyalty to the father king who loves us?  Come on.  Ridiculous.  Completely ridiculous.

[ Parent ]
the pull of the tide (0.00 / 0)
I assume that women are affected by the possibility of a woman's becoming VP, in somewhat the same way that blacks are affected by Obama's position. I also think that women are more capable of sacrificing on behalf of men than the other way around. I like what Kant said about it: nature in constructing men employed force, and with women, art. I actually assume that the fair sex is the superior sex, but this superiority is based on the superiority of sacrifice and patience to drive and success.

Men get where they get because of women. Obama is a good example. He was raised by his mother and grandmother. He owes everything to them, and he obviously adores his daughters. I think repaying the first and lifting up the second is his real motivation. He's not really a complex personality.

History hints at eras during which the prejudice in favor of men in overt authority did not exist. That condition will no doubt return, but not in less than a century, because sexism is still very basic in the Third World. Is female infanticide sexism? I certainly think so. Don't you think you could draw a distinction between my unauthorized analysis of what I take to be "women", and that?

I don't mean to insult you, but if you persist in claiming you have been insulted, then I claim that it is a matter of manners, and not ethics. I claim that you have a duty to point out my error in neutral terms. I regret your irritation; but I'm just trying to think out something about television and stereotypes, and I'm trying to get Obama elected. As I stated in my original post, I am a simple volunteer, not a consultant, so I can put your mind at ease on that point. The damage so far is confined to Talk Left.

And now, I leave you the last word - which I believe you would claim in any case.


[ Parent ]
More like Clarence Thomas (0.00 / 0)
Women are  affected by Sarah Palin in the way that many blacks were affected by Clarence Thomas.  Many African Americans were more than annoyed when whites tiptoed gingerly around their opinions about Thomas, rather than saying right out what they thought of his constitutional views.  I think your perspective on women is a bit romanticized, and you might consider that many women, especially lesbians, live outside the need to sacrifice for men.  And, those who do live in that space, in my experience rarely see it in a father king way.  They are much more aware of the politics of the situation, and yes, they do what they have to do but not in quite such a clueless way as your post laid out.  Your are right that I was rude in expressing my opinion about your analysis.  And, in the way that you will understand as female, I will step back and apologize for having offending, and try instead to offer my view in a gentle and kind way, since we must take care not to offend the male ego.  In that way I may have just proved your point.  

[ Parent ]
Also (0.00 / 0)
"men force and women art"  is an essentialist view of gender.

[ Parent ]
I'm Sorry, This Is Just Tiresome (0.00 / 0)
Your pretence of omniscience about what others think, combined with your assumptions about how ignorant they are is creepily reminiscent of Bush/Cheney, the neocons and their clueless fanboys in the 101st Keyboard Brigade.

The fact that you do it all in the name of "feminism" only shows the degree to which ideological stances can be trivialized and warped for whatever purposes.  Hardly a new revelation, unfortunately.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Feminism (0.00 / 0)
Has always been about both big and small things.  Pointing out the bias inherent in an analysis is not trivial, especially when you are putting the original post forth as an important view.   Sexism is so ingrained in even the most well meaning of men, in a similar but not identical way to how racism is ingrained in even the most well meaning of whites.  Its often found in small places, which is why its been so difficult this campaign season.  I am tired tired tired of it but you are right that I expressed it with too much irritation.  However, it might be helpful to reread the original post with this framing and see what you think when you are less defensive and annoyed with my view.

[ Parent ]
But... (0.00 / 0)
Feminism

Has always been about both big and small things.  Pointing out the bias inherent in an analysis is not trivial, especially when you are putting the original post forth as an important view.  

But you haven't pointed out any such inherent bias.  In response to my questioning. You have made sweeping statements, and as a rare example presented something out of context.  This is not serious analysis.  It's a parody.

Just because an analysis annoys you for some reason that doesn't make it sexist.  There are, after all, all different varieties of feminism, that sometimes complement, and sometimes disagree with one another.  In some cases they disagree about what is sexist, and they offer rigorous arguments in support of their differing views.

While it's perfectly legitimate to express your annoyance, and your intuitive sense that it comes from an encounter with sexist attitudes or ideas, it's not legitimate to make sweeping claims of absolute certainty, and then not be able to back up those claims with specific evidence.  When you do so, you are simply recreating the same structure of authoritarian discourse in the name of feminism that is routinely and historically used to deny women any voice.

Finally, some of your most recent exchanges with SouthFrankfort may have uncovered some sexist assumptions.  The evidence is ambiguous.  What you call "an essentialist view of gender" may simply be a short-hand description of what SouthFrankfort sees as socially determined. That would certainly be more consistent with other things said in both the diary and in comments.  But even if you are right, and it reflects an essentialist assumption, you still haven't shown how this has any bearing on the premises or the argument presented in the diary.

Similarly, I would be inclined to agree when you write "I think your perspective on women is a bit romanticized," but I would also tend to agree with SouthFrankfort that "it is a matter of manners, and not ethics."

When you pull lesbians into this particular discussion, it simply shows how much you are talking at cross-purposes, since SouthFrankfort was clearly talking about a limited, though numerically quite significant, subset of voters to begin with.  While some small faction of those might be lesbian, given Palin's extremist religious views, it's hardly credible that she's making any serious sort of play for their votes.  Thus, what theoretically seems so salient for you is in fact pragmaticlly irrelevant to what SouthFrankfort was engaged in doing.


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
The Obamathon | 45 comments
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