McCain: Self-Inflicted Damage on The View?

by: tremayne

Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 14:46


Some recent polling suggests Barack Obama is weak (still) with older white women. I'm not sure, but I would guess that demographic is a pretty big part of the audience for "The View" which is where John McCain was this morning.

Watch these video clips and tell me what you think. Here's a summary of how this appearance may really hurt him:

1. Joy Behar said to his face that his recent ads about Obama were lies

2. Barbara Walters pointed out that he himself uses "lipstick on a pig" and that Obama's reference was not about Palin.

3. McCain said Roe vs. Wade was a bad decision to booing from the audience.

4. Whoopi Goldberg said that appointing strict constitutionalists, the GOP mantra, would return her to slavery.

5. Barbara Walters kept pressing McCain on just what Sarah Palin was supposed to be coming to Washington to reform and suggested it was he who needed reforming.

6. They forced McCain to talk about separation of church and state and how a Palin administration, if it came to that, might not see a need for much separation.

UPDATE 7. They told him that Palin did accept earmarks and he responded with the whopper "not as Governor she didn't."

There was some feel-good stuff about kids and such after Cindy McCain came out and I'm sure I'm viewing this through blue-tinted glasses, but I've got to think this was a voting net loser for McCain. Palin may be more of a draw than McCain for their ticket but it was clear from McCain's own mouth he won't have her on that show to face their firing squad (he said it's about the top of the ticket).

Your take?

tremayne :: McCain: Self-Inflicted Damage on The View?

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McCain: Self-Inflicted Damage on The View? | 61 comments
Maybe it is me ... (4.00 / 2)
but was Barbara Walters ever that hard hitting back on ABC? .. it's obviously not that hard in the grand scheme of things .. but it isn't the ass kissing that McCain has long been used to
EXACTLY....the McCain is used to being pandered to (4.00 / 5)
On Tweety's show and others.  But the Roger Simons and the Joe Klein's have finally called Bullshit on McSame....wonder why it took him going on the View to get some real questions and actually getting some follow up questions.  

Today is a bad news day for the McCain campaign with this appearance, the Palin debacle,  and his comment last night.  Now it is up to the Obama and his surrogates (where are you people?)campaign to pound him into the ground and Call LIES to what are actually lies.  If they can do this, then they can turn around this deficit.

One more thing...this Bullshit about the tone of campaign is what it is because Obama would not do the town hall's with him?  He need to call BS on that to.  So the entire honor and dignity of the campaign is scrapped because Obama will not play ball with you?  Is this what you would do with IRAN, RUSSIA?  IS ANYONE FROM THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN LISTENING?????

[ Parent ]
Thery have a new release out (0.00 / 0)
Calling McCain on his lies.  It concludes,  "John McCain weould rather lose his integrity than lose an election."

And a new copmmercial out about all the lobbyists in McCain's campaign tying it to his phony "reform" line.

You could make a whole commercial with Baba Walters' questioning.  I'd love to see Sarah Palin on that show.  Bet they wouldn't give her any slack either.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
Perhaps the trad med (4.00 / 1)
can learn from the View?
The View hosts not properly trained. (4.00 / 4)
If they affect the outcome of this election negatively for Republicans, they will be shipped off to the same education camp that the "news" media have all been attending their entire careers. There is a massive institutionalized propaganda system with an intricate system of punishments and rewards that trains the news media stars to be retarded like training rats in a skinner box. Forgetting to indoctrinate the gals on a light and fluffy entertainment show like The View was an oversight. It will be corrected. I have no doubt that, after Katrina, the media received some "continuing education" on how to remain "professional" and "objective" in the face of widespread death and  suffering due to perplexing government inaction.

miasmo.com
[ Parent ]
haha (4.00 / 5)
Dude, I'm having a seriously bad day at work, but I'm laughing out loud reading your description of this.

It sounds like an epic fail.  Whoopi goldberg may have just coined the best refutation of the "strict constructionalist" garbage I've ever read.

They booed him?  Awesome.

What was amazing was that McCain didn't come back (4.00 / 1)
with the counterargument about the 13th-15th amendments.  

I was also disappointed that none of them asked him about Griswold after he said that Roe v. Wade was a bad decision.  And most of the logic behind Roe is grounded in Griswold.  

We give them too much leeway on abortion.  You want Roe v. Wade overturned and abortion made illegal?  Fine.  Then, tell me two things:

1)Should Griswold be overturned?  If not, then how can you believe that Griswold's right to privacy is consistent with the constitution, but Roe's is not

2) What should be the penalty for getting an abortion?  

[ Parent ]
Roe and Griswold (0.00 / 0)
1) A Conservative's answer to this would be yes, overturn Griswold. They might then argue that the birth control law at issue in Griswold was not something they agreed with, but that it should be handled at a state/legislative level.

2) Same here. Conservatives would beg off of this question with the simple: "It's up to the states/legislatures, thus indirectly the constituents of each state, to decide."

I disagree with these answers, but the questions aren't necessarily politically uncomfortable for conservatives. You should realize that overturning Roe wouldn't make abortion illegal, the Supreme Court would just cease to consider laws banning abortion to be unconstitutional.


[ Parent ]
Actually it would in some states (4.00 / 1)
Some states never repealed their bans on abortion, and they would become operatiove if Roe was opverturned.  Also, it would paralyze every state legislature while they fought out the issue.  Just like CA is paralyzed right now over its budget.  It would be chaos, literally.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.
[ Parent ]
not to mention the stripping back of essential civil liberties (0.00 / 0)
no arguments here, just pointing out that as a question in a news interview format it wouldn't be that hard to duck or as damning as Valatan seemed to imply it would be. republicans have been getting away with some version of my answers above for years.
[ Parent ]
So stick them with it, don't let them wiggle away. (0.00 / 0)
Ask, okay so what should the penalty be in this state? If abortion is murder, the penalty should be death. Or so they not believe it's murder? If they don't believe it's murder, why do they say it is?

Montani semper liberi
[ Parent ]
I agree (0.00 / 0)
I always wonder why the laws banning abortion criminal the doctor, but not the woman.  It is the infantilization of women.   If abortion is a crime, why is the woman having the abortion not the primary criminal, if not at least an accomplice?

They really don't think of women as "people" at some low fundamental level, even if they do think of them that way on an intellectual level.

[ Parent ]
I'm not sure they think of us (0.00 / 0)
as people on any level. The best I can tell, to Conservatives/Republicans we are either playthings or nuisances.

Montani semper liberi
[ Parent ]
Not sure... (4.00 / 3)
whether to be happy or depressed at the state of our media.  When the View hits him harder, well, that's just sad.

At the same time, what a perfect venue.  Women hitting him on women's issues.  Calling him a liar.  They just seemed angry.

How would I know? (4.00 / 10)
I thought his RNC speech was terrible. I think his VP is a lunatic. He's part of the DC elite. He's a philanderer, liar, and scumbag. I don't think this race should even be close. But it IS close.

So how would I know what the View will do to his campaign? I'm obviously not watching the same election that most of America is.

True, but... (4.00 / 2)

 ...the audience for The View, I would surmise, is pretty much the same audience that McCain's been going after with his  Palin pick.

 High-information policy wonks don't watch The View. But many regular people, who make "gut" decisions about which candidate to vote for, do watch the show. And I can't imagine they came away too impressed with McCain.

 I think this afternoon was good for us.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
Yes it was... (4.00 / 1)
This feels like the first news day since the 7 houses thing that we are on the offensive, framing the conversation.  Not just responding to the McCain clap - trap...more of this...
[ Parent ]
Something has really turned over (0.00 / 0)
the last couple days.
Obama campaign response (4.00 / 2)
They posted it at TPM, from Obama spokesperson Hari Sevugan:

In running the sleaziest campaign since South Carolina in 2000 and standing by completely debunked lies on national television, it's clear that John McCain would rather lose his integrity than lose an election.

Pretty good.  In order to keep it going with the media, it'd probably be best if Biden comes out swinging with this precise theme, about "the new McCain" being a lying sleazeball whom "the old McCain" wouldn't have approved of.

[ Parent ]
Who is Biden? (4.00 / 3)

[ Parent ]
Why keep they myth going (4.00 / 5)
that McCain ever had any integrity?

"It looks like we're finally seeing the real John McCain."

[ Parent ]
As a woman (4.00 / 8)
I don't usually watch the View, but went out of my way to do so this morning and I was simply shocked.  I'm a big fan of Obama but I didn't hate McCain either, that is before he showed this side of him.

He was testy and dismissive from this woman's point of view.  His answers were defensive and when questioned by Walters he seemed at his worst.  With Whoopi he seemed more relaxed which is an interesting phenomenon.  

They call him the white tornado in the Senate and that's what he looked like today.  Defensive and generally pissed off.  Cindy has a distinct calming effect on his demeanor.

The other thing you missed in your bullet points was the first thing he said, even before any of the girls said a word, was did you see Joy on Larry King?  She is definitely an udecided voter.  It was a lame attempt to discredit JB before it even started.  JB ripped him a new one on Larry King.

I wonder if this will further incline both McCain and Palin to cloister themselves away.  Country first my ass.  This guy cares nothing about anything except winning.  

What's more... (0.00 / 0)
Look at his facial expressions. His face just screamed, "Wow, lady...you're nuts!"
[ Parent ]
Contact buzz? (0.00 / 0)
"Cindy has a distinct calming effect on his demeanor. "


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."
[ Parent ]
Let's hope this continues (0.00 / 0)
McCain's already lost Jake Tapper and Joe Klien and Howard Kurtz. Let's hope more reporters and pundits talk about, you know, the truth.
the Bush Doctrine thing (4.00 / 2)
is causing a stir among the elites.
[ Parent ]
Look, when Mark Halperein is calling bullshit on McCain... (0.00 / 0)
you know that he has jumped the Shark...way jumped it....

Now Biden needs to come out and say Bullshit to all of this like he did on the floor of the US Senate...

[ Parent ]
McCain Rationalizes His Lies (4.00 / 2)
Twice now I have seen when McCain is confronted by questions surrounding the lies and dirty politics of his campaign, McCain rationalizes it by suggesting that if Obama had accepted his invitation to do joint townhall meetings, the tenor of the campaign might be different.  That may or may not be true, but that's not the point.  Because Obama didn't accept the invite, it doesn't give McCain the right to lie to the Ameican people and malign Obama's record.

McCain's rationale is similar to that of the schoolyard bully who argues that he wouldn't have hit a fellow student if the student would have just given him his lunch money on demand.  The bully is attempting to make himself the victim, while painting the student at fault for causing the bully hit him.

Bully? Or Mob Boss? (4.00 / 1)
What you say is so true, but there's an added level of dishonesty.  McCain acts as if the nastiness just happened, that he had nothing to do with it.

This makes him more like a Mafia boss, who's so sorry that restaraunt burned down, and tells the owner, "It's really regretable that you didn't buy my protection.  I told you something like this was bound to happen."

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Obama Called McCain's Bluff (0.00 / 0)
Obama suggested two town halls plus the three presidential debates, and McCain turned it down.
[ Parent ]
Consistent with McCain in the Senate (4.00 / 2)
His idea of "bitpartisan" is when people agree with his idea.  If they have another idea, if a Dem approaches him, for example, it is no dice. Like with Webb's GI Bill.  Everyone has to agree with HIS position.  It's all about him.  This is the origin of his quarrel with Obama--Obama declined to go along with McCain's ethics bill and joined another one, and McCain threw a fit in a letter to him.

So if Obama wouldn't do things his way, then that gives him license to trash him.  

And Obama did offer to do a few town halls, just not as many as McCain wanted.  And McCain wanted it because at the time it was the only way for him to draw big crowds.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
We Are Not Going to Lose (4.00 / 4)
We are going to win.

Just in case you are wondering or feeling blue. We are going to win. I know it.

If you say so (0.00 / 0)
At Atrios's blog, there was one commenter, can't remember the handle, whose signature on every post was:

"Kerry/Edwards in a LANDSLIDE!"

[ Parent ]
our ground game is unlike ever before (0.00 / 0)
those pesky right wing nut christian fundamentalists just don't have the upper hand anymore. our community organizer wants this bad and he is playing for keeps. we are going to win and maybe win big. but i like eve3ryone else will be holding my breath for the next 53 days. here is a view of the gotv operation in central florida:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlan...

[ Parent ]
Believe me (4.00 / 1)
I hoping desperately, desperately that you are right.
[ Parent ]
Become a part of it (0.00 / 0)

 I've been canvassing too.

 And just hope that Obama gives us more to work with than he's been lately.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
Fundamentalists plan a million boots on the ground... (0.00 / 0)
They are recruiting in churches by phone and by email as we speak.They are up.

Clinton in '08. Or give Carter a 2nd term. Vote for Obama!
[ Parent ]
Check out this response (4.00 / 2)
Obama Campaign: McCain "Would Rather Lose His Integrity Than Lose An Election"

http://tpmelectioncentral.talk...

Things is heating up!

Finally! (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
why won't Obama say this? (0.00 / 0)
it would garner a lot more attention if he did
[ Parent ]
He doesn't have to (4.00 / 2)
And probably shouldn't.

The question is whether his ads will say it.

[ Parent ]
Just you wait. (0.00 / 0)

   The Sternly Worded Press Release is on the way!

   Never say that Obama's Senate tenure hasn't given him any experience.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

[ Parent ]
I didn't hear a word McCain said, so enchanted was I by the onion tied to his belt. (4.00 / 5)

As was the fashion at the time ;-) (4.00 / 1)

[ Parent ]
Way back in nineteen-dickety-two! (4.00 / 2)
We had to say dickety cause that Kaiser had stolen our word for twenty. I chased that rascal to get it back, but gave up after dickety-six miles...

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers
[ Parent ]
You see, back in those days, (4.00 / 1)
rich men would ride around in Zeppelins, dropping coins on people, and one day I seen J. D. Rockefeller flying by. So I run of the house with a big washtub and, where are you going?
[ Parent ]
It should knock him out of contention, but... (4.00 / 3)
this is the reality-show election that the American Idol folks were going to put on but didn't, presumably because they realized it would be redundant. McCain's/Palin's pathological lying would have finished them not so long ago. The question is, does it matter any more?

Apparently there are whining white women out there who don't care if McCain is a proven serial liar. Who don't mind if he gets Roe v Wade overturned, torpedoes help for single mothers, and enables a culture of impunity for gender-based violence against women. None of that really matters compared to the fact that a black guy beat Hillary. (No, I'm not knocking Hillary -- she has behaved with grace and honor in defeat -- but she sure seems to have picked up a bunch of loony groupies.)

Anyway, what matters is whether McCain's habit of lying can be made to matter. The "all pols lie" meme is shielding him from serious blowback so far. The opposition's job is to get back to basics and remind everybody that lies have consequences: 4000 American soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians dead because of George W Bush's lies. Americans losing their homes because the government and Wall Street lied about their financial situation. The economy failing because Republicans lied about what deregulation and privatization would do. Hundreds of thousands of American jobs lost because John McCain and Republican legislators lied about their self-enriching trade policies. Looming environmental disaster because Bush, McCain, and the Republicans lied about climate change.

Well, I'm sure you can think of a lot more. Point is, just yelling "liar, liar" is not enough. You have to show how much suffering the lies of Bush, McCain, and the Republican Party are already causing, and how 4 more years of government-by-lie may finish our democracy off for good.

DaveW - I would have posted and agreed with you if (4.00 / 1)
I'd seen your post before I made mine.  Anyway - I agree with your analysis, with exactly ONE caveat.  Instead of sneering at those who are impressed with McCain, I think we need to develop some empathy for them - really find it in ourselves to understand what they are seeing differently from us - because we can talk to them if we know what they are concerned about.

I count myself as nearly one of those voters.  I'm more or less a "low info" voter - I am not really following every detail - mainly just following the horse race.  I made up my mind early on on the basis of the character of the candidates, without much regard at all for their policies - except as their policies said something about their character.  My early favorites were Huckabee and Obama - as opposite policywise as two men can be, and if Obama had lost the primaries, and Huckabee won, I'd be frequenting Republican sites rooting for Huckabee.

Unfortunately, I can't think like the racists who think Obama is going to burn white people if he gets elected, but I can think like the more rational independent voters who are trying to make up their minds in the next few weeks.  I can say that right now almost everything sounds like noise - and until a very clear narrative with a set of testable claims is put forward, Obama isn't making the decision making process easier for me, and McCain isn't making it harder.

QT

Visit the Obama Project


WindOnWater.net



[ Parent ]
What I don't understand (0.00 / 0)
is if you know Huckabee and Obama are the exact opposite policy wise, how can you say you'd support Huckabee if Obama wasn't the Democratic nominee.

That's my problem and that's why I think it's true this election is not about issues and trying to campaign from the left like many want to do here, wouldn't work.

Just out of curosity, but don't you have a certain list of issues where you stand; healthcare, taxes; abortion rights, civil rights...the difference between Obama and Huckabee couldn't be clearer.

If these elections are not about policy, then I don't think we can win. If this is about character, and low info voters judge based on little info, we're running a young black guy with a weird name against a POW who looks like your grandfather...we can't win that.  

[ Parent ]
Elections are about character (0.00 / 0)
and the way to win them is to convince people a) you have it, and b) your opponent does not. You have to stand up for something (FISA would've been good), and you have to fight.

None of this is incongruous with what you are calling "a campaign from the left," unless you automatically equate "left" with "weak?"

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
I'm talking about (0.00 / 0)
campaigning from the left on issues. Obama is campaigning directly to the issues people care about and support and not to the ones they don't (which is what happened with FISA, and why he backed oil drilling and stepped away from the surge opposition).

If elections are only about character, then what difference did it make that Hillary Clinton doesn't support progressive ideals? At least she can tear her opponent apart.

This whole campaign confused the hell out of me, we nailed Hillary to the cross for being too ruthless and now we're complaning Obama isn't ruthless enough.  

[ Parent ]
Character, and policy both (0.00 / 0)
But mostly character.  Who are you, and what are you going to do?  Why should I believe you? And how does whatever you're planning to do affect me and affect the country?

You can have one policy position after another, but if I don't believe you, it just doesn't matter.  You can have the worst policy positions in the world, but if I think you're a decent person, then I'm more willing to think maybe your policies aren't as bad for me as they sound.

And McCain has no character - and Obama is a Leave it to Beaver Dad.  Run on THAT.

QT

Visit the Obama Project


WindOnWater.net



[ Parent ]
More women support Obama than men (4.00 / 2)
Obama leads McCain among white women and loses to McCain with white men, so watch what you say, buster!

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.
[ Parent ]
All politicians do not lie. (0.00 / 0)
A good way to counter the "all pols lie" meme might be for Obama to keeping repeating something along the lines of "there are good, honest Republicans out there but McCain is not one of them."  
[ Parent ]
Again, (0.00 / 0)
I don't think just yelling "liar" is going to change many minds. Even if it's obviously true. People have become blase about lying. The way to change that is to remind them of the terrible consquences of lying -- like the Iraq war, the economic meltdown, the environmental crisis, the foreclosure tragedy, and the loss of American jobs.
[ Parent ]
While the ladies on the View were tough (0.00 / 0)
McCain worked his way through this to really solid applause at the end, and very ably defined Palin in positive way.  I said in Chris's blog that I didn't see why folks were seeing this as a negative for McCain, other than a very insular view of things, and I stand by that.  (I would LOVE to be proven wrong here, but I don't really think I'm going to be).  If the idea that Governor Palin took earmarks as governor can get traction as a lie - then good.  But piddling with lies isn't going to do much unless Obama is ready to make the case that McCain is a liar - and stick to that narrative.  Then we've got a story to tell - a hard hitting one.  But this stuff on the View was a positive showing for McCain, and demonstrates just how formidable he is in the town hall format.

He did himself no harm - and perhaps some good.  

QT

Visit the Obama Project


WindOnWater.net



so when he got booed (0.00 / 0)
it was a good moment?
[ Parent ]
No - it was a lousy one (4.00 / 1)
But not the last one.  He bounced back, is what I'm saying.  

If we're very lucky - the boos will represent a permanent understanding of his policy, and a rejection of it.  But overall, he came away on an up note, which is about all he really needed to do.

OTOH - if the narrative swings because of Obama's push back on integrity - we might have something... :)

QT

Visit the Obama Project


WindOnWater.net



[ Parent ]
same reaction (4.00 / 1)
The ladies gave him some fact checking here and there but McCain steamrolled over all of it and silenced them. I didn't see any long lasting damage from this and McCain was more coherent and interactive than usual. I was thinking McCain would not be a tragedy for the nation .. until I remembered his votes, his record his character and the ball and chain around his leg called Palin.

But I am a blog reader .. the low information voters only know what they see right now on TV radio and headlines .. that looks pretty good for McCain.

[ Parent ]
I think I know why McCain is dropping in the polls (4.00 / 1)
When you said, Chris, that his poll numbers have been dropping since shortly after the primary was finally decided, it hit me.  All through the Democratic primaries, Clinton and Obama were talking issues.  But it was still a competition.  Americans love competition.  American Idol, NBA play-offs.  Because people want to know who will win, they will pay attention to arcane things like issues.  But once the competition is between McCain, a candidate under the control of at least 50 lobbyists (http://www.mccainslobbyists.com/) who won't let him engage in any serious policy discussion, even if he were up to the challenge of facing Obama on the issues, then the turf gets changed to more entertaining fare: sex scandals, who's cuter, who said what, to whom, when, and is it really an insult.  All of that is a ratings grabber, not because people don't care about issues, but because it's hard not to look.  Of course, a truly gifted orator like Obama could speak powerfully enough that the importance of the issues would be more riveting than anything with lipstick.  Even I held my Republican in-laws captive by an unprepared speech on corruption in America, its source, and, uncorrected, its inevitable march toward our becoming a third world country.  They were afraid of me the whole weekend, but in a good way.  I hope.
LIES & SMEARS (0.00 / 0)
McCain HAS to lie about Palin because he has no other choise.  He realizes that his "impulse buy" of a VP candidate isn't going to pan out and he also realizes that if he jettisons her, he'll lose in a landslide.

McCain also HAS to lie about his positions because he knows he's a flip-flopper and can't be trusted.

McCain: Self-Inflicted Damage on The View? | 61 comments
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