How Politicians Lie: McCain, Palin, Bush, Reagan, Nixon--No Two Exactly Alike!

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 17:35


Politicians lie.  Heck, pretty much everyone lies. But we're particularly aware that politicians lie.  Still just because two people, or two politicians lie, that doesn't mean they lie for the same reasons or in the same ways.

Some people lie reluctanctly, as a sort of last resort, when they feel they have no other option. Others lie quite freely, saying whatever comes to mind, whether true or not.  Some people merely want to please, they lie to make others feel good, and then they lie some more, to keep their lies from being discovered.  Some lie out of embarrassment, to avoid feeling badly themselves.  Some lie quite strategically, to achieve very specific goals.  And some simply lie tactically, to get themselves out of lifes little jams--or into them, as the case may be.

In the current presidential campaign, the GOP ticket gives us quite a pair of liars, with very different profiles.  But before looking at them specifically, it can help if we survey some other recent examples, in order to get ourselves oriented.  So let us begin with Richard Nixon, aka "Tricky Dick," and work our way forward from there.  I'm not arguing that any of these are pure examples.  Rather, each of them is best understood in terms of a different landscape of lies.

Paul Rosenberg :: How Politicians Lie: McCain, Palin, Bush, Reagan, Nixon--No Two Exactly Alike!
Richard Nixon: The Pathological vs. Categorical Liar

Richard Nixon was a man of so many, and such complicated lies that simply asking him the time of day was an essay in futility.  Without for a moment pretending to do more than scratch the surface, here's an interesting dualism to consider, as presented for a general audience in the context of relationships (what else?):

Pathological Liar
    A pathological liar is usually defined as someone who lies incessantly to get their way and does so with little concern for others. Pathological lying is often viewed as coping mechanism developed in early childhood and it is often associated with some other type of mental health disorder. A pathological liar is often goal-oriented (i.e., lying is focused - it is done to get one's way). Pathological liars have little regard or respect for the rights and feelings of others. A pathological liar often comes across as being manipulative, cunning and self-centered.

Compulsive Liar

    A compulsive liar is defined as someone who lies out of habit. Lying is their normal and reflexive way of responding to questions. Compulsive liars bend the truth about everything, large and small. For a compulsive liar, telling the truth is very awkward and uncomfortable while lying feels right. Compulsive lying is usually thought to develop in early childhood, due to being placed in an environment where lying was necessary. For the most part, compulsive liars are not overly manipulative and cunning (see, Pathological Liar), rather they simply lie out of habit - an automatic response which is hard to break and one that takes its toll on a relationship (see, how to cope with a compulsive liar).

While hardly scientific, this seems fairly useful as a sort of folk typology.  Most of us have probably known people who fit into both categories--the former quite aggressive and manipulative, the latter annoying as hell, but basically harmless in most situations, provided you're not deeply involved with them.

Pathological liars, OTOH, can really mess things up for you, even at a distance.  And, no, they don't have to be President to do so.  You might not even know a pathological liar, but he might pretend to know you, and say all sorts of things that could come back to hurt you.  A compulsive liar would rarely think to do such a thing, unless you happened to walk into a room just when they needed to lie about something.

Ronald Reagan: The Confabulator:  Tall Tales And Confabulations

Ronald Reagan is a combination of two different types.  The pure teller of tall tales (Paul Bunyan; Babe, The Blue Ox, etc.) knows quite well that they aren't true stories, but artistic creations, and takes considerable delight in crafting or at least vividly recounting them.  As a life-long entertainer, it was only natural that telling tall tales was a part of Reagan's repertoire.

But a confabulator is distinctly different.  A confabulator doesn't know the difference between truth and lies, and seemlessly meshes them together.  Put the two together, and you've got.... Ronald Reagan!

Here's wikipedia on the process of confabulation:

Confabulation, also known as false memory is the confusion of imagination with memory, and/or the confusion of true memories with false memories.[1] Confabulation can result from both organic and psychological causes.[2]

Organic causes

Berlyne (1972) defined confabulation as "...a falsification of memory occurring in clear consciousness in association with an organically derived amnesia." He distinguished between:

   * "momentary" (or "provoked") confabulations - fleeting, and invariably provoked by questions probing the subject's memory - sometimes consisting of "real" memories displaced in their temporal context.
   * "fantastic" (or "spontaneous") confabulations - characterised by the spontaneous outpouring of irrelevant associations - sometimes bizarre ideas, which may be held with firm conviction.

Patients who have suffered brain damage or lesions, especially to the Prefrontal cortical regions, may have confabulation of memories as a symptom. Patients with Korsakoff's syndrome characteristically confabulate by guessing an answer or imagining an event and then mistaking their guess or imagination for an actual memory. In some cases, confabulation is a function of the brain's chemistry, a mapping of the activation of neurons to brain activity.[3][4] Confabulation can also occur as a result of damage to the Anterior communicating artery (ACoA), in the Circle of Willis.

Some military agents, such as BZ, and deliriant drugs such as those found in datura, noticeably scopolamine and atropine, may also cause confabulation.

As can be seen from this discussion, there is no necessary connection between confabulation and tall tales, but if one did bring the two together, then the result would likely be certain wild distortions of reality.  And, indeed, that is precisely what we saw in the persona of Ronal Reagan.

As an early sportscaster, Reagan was fed play-by-play results of a game, and made up the action to produce the result.  He thus became a very fluid teller of plausible lies.  During WWII, he stayed in Hollywood, sometimes doing acting out of battlefield dramas.  He later came to believe that he had actual lived the dramas he acted in.  He thus showed various different signs of melding reality and fantasy in different ways, which played a central role in his political career.

One of the most lasting impacts of this was his embrace of the fanciful "Star Wars" missile defense system, a magical way of making a quick switch from his early first-term warmongering stance, in which there was loose talk (now long forgotten) about "winning a nuclear war", to an overtly protective stance of making nuclear weapons "impotent and obsolete", but without ever (a) admitting that his anti-war critics had been right or (b) giving up on massive military spending.

A similar comingling of confabulation and tall tales was evident with the Iran/Contra Affair, where Reagan seemed genuinely shocked, after his own, user-friendly Tower Commission Report failed to fully vindicate him, so he had to publicly admit that, gosh darn it, he actually did trade arms for hostages, exactly the way the mean ole Democrats said he did!

Excerpt from televised address, March 3, 1987:

"A few months ago, I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and evidence tell me it is not."

G.W. Bush: Sadism And Sociopathy Enter the Picture

With Bush, Jr, we see similarities to Nixon, but differences as well. Bush is obviously nowhere near as well-organized and driven as Nixon, but when he does become driven--as he did after 9/11--his lying seems quite similar to Nixon's pathological style.

More generally, however, he seems to exhibit a lot more of the compulsive liar's qualities, lying out of habit, as his "normal and reflexive way of responding to questions.... bend[ing] the truth about everything, large and small."

Still, this is not the most distinctive thing one can observe about Bush's lying.  Rather, one is drawn to note his sadism, and even signs of psychopathy.  One of the most illustrative examples of his lying comes from Tucker Carlson's interviewing him about the execution of Carla Faye Tucker.  Wikipedia recounts it thus:

In the year following her execution, conservative commentator Tucker Carlson questioned Governor Bush about how the Board of Pardons and Parole had arrived at the determination on her clemency plea. Carlson alleged that Bush, alluding to an televised interview which Karla Faye Tucker had given to talk show host Larry King, smirked and spoke mockingly about her:[8]
    In the weeks before the execution, Bush says, "A number of protesters came to Austin to demand clemency for Karla Faye Tucker." "Did you meet with any of them?" I ask. Bush whips around and stares at me. "No, I didn't meet with any of them", he snaps, as though I've just asked the dumbest, most offensive question ever posed. "I didn't meet with Larry King either when he came down for it. I watched his interview with Tucker, though. He asked her real difficult questions like, 'What would you say to Governor Bush?'" "What was her answer?" I wonder. "'Please,'" Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, "'don't kill me.'" I must look shocked - ridiculing the pleas of a condemned prisoner who has since been executed seems odd and cruel - because he immediately stops smirking.

Journalist Carlson followed up on Bush's remark by reviewing a videotape of the interview on Larry King's show. Carlson found that Tucker had in fact not uttered the entreaty, "Please don't kill me" nor words to that effect.[9] Bush disputed Carlson's interpretation of his remark by denying that he had intended to make light of the issue.

It is, of course, entirely possible that Bush didn't intend to "make light of the issue."  He was just being the compilsive liar he always is.  And he was being the sadist he always is, too.

Of course, Bush's personal lying style is much less important than that of his predecessors, such as Nixon and Reagan, since by this time the entire GOP has become permeated by a culture of lying, and Bush's entire administration is little more than an co-ordinated lying machine, whose motto is, quite simply, "anything goes!"  This is what pathological lying would be like, if it could indefinitely postpone any sort of confrontation with reality.

Sociopathy

Finally, "sociopathy" is no longer used as a psychiatric terms, having been replaced by "Anti-social personality disorder," and having been preceeded by the term "psychopathy."  But it's succinct, and free from automatic association with homicidal mania, so, good enough for now.  The breakthrough study of psychopathy/sociopathy, first published in 1941, was The Mask of Sanity, by Hervey Cleckley.  The 1988 Fifth Edition is available online in PDF here.  It's not my purpose to get deeply into this subject, much less to argue that Bush is a sociopath.  Rather, I want to invoke sociopathy as a reference point in one very specific regard.  Cleckley's concept of psychopathy/sociopathy is that is a core personality defect that leaves peripheral functions perfectly intact.  In his preface to his Fifth Edition, he writes:

It is not easy to convey this concept, that of a biologic organism outwardly intact, showing excellent peripheral function, but centrally deficient or disabled in such a way that abilities, excellent at the only levels where we can formally test them, cannot be utilized consistently for sane purposes or prevented from regularly working toward selfdestructive and other seriously pathologic results.

Cleckley's work is overwhelming with detail, which is what one might expect from a clinician chasing after a disorder that has no outwardly constant manifestation.   But he also seems frankly unable to express himself succinctly. The closes he comes, perhaps, is this:

Let us then assume, as a hypothesis, that the psychopath's disorder, or defect, or his difference from the whole or normal or integrated personality consists of an unawareness and a persistent lack of ability to become aware of what the most important experiences of life mean to others.

In short, the sociopath lacks any depth of meaning, purpose or sense of connectedness with others--aka empathy.  Hence, they are, effectively, without conscience.  And yet, as Cleckley notes repeatedly, they appear outwardly normal.  They have a three-dimensional mask of normalcy--the "Mask of Sanity" of his title.  They can mimic sanity for long periods of time, but then go entirely off the rails.  With their lack of empathy, they can readily destroy the lives of others.  But with their lack of meaning and purpose, they can as readily destroy themselves. One popular-oriented online discussion of sociopathy adds this important detail:

WHAT DO THEY WANT?

This is an interesting question. Of course most of our purposes are strongly influenced by our connections and affections with others. Our relationships with others, and our love for them, give us most of the meaning in life. So if a sociopath doesn't have these things, what is left? What kind of purposes do they have?

The answer is chilling: They want to win. Take away love and relationships and all you have left is winning the game, whatever the game is. If they are in business, it is becoming rich and defeating competitors. If it is sibling rivalry, it is defeating the sibling. If it is a contest, the goal is to dominate. If a sociopath is the envious sort, winning would be making the other lose, or fail, or be frustrated or embarrassed.

A sociopath's goal is to win. And he is willing to do anything at all to win.

Yet, this description leaves out one important thing: at very moment of triumph, a sociopath can simply lose all interest, and just wander off.  In the end, even winning cannot satisfy them.

Let me repeat again, to be perfectly clear: I am not saying that Bush is sociopath.  Nor am I saying that the Bush Administration acts like the institutional equivelent of a sociopath.  But I am saying that there is a general similarity.  The parts fit together much more smoothly than the whole. There is an intense competitiveness, and a seeming void when it comes to expressing simple positive values in anything other than cliches.

In The Bush Dyslexicon, Mark Crispin Miller noted that Bush's mangled syntax disappeared when he talked about things he really cared about--sports competition, punishing criminals, and the like.  But when it came to the everyday concerns of ordinary people, it was all, "I know how hard it is to put food on your family."  This represents at least an echo of sociopathy.

John McCain 2008: "Just Win, Baby"--The Structure of Strategic Lying

In an opinion piece at Salon, The lying game, Alan Wolfe observes:

Republicans lie so frequently, not because the party just happened to settle upon one serial liar after another to run for high office, but because the form of conservatism to which they all adhere demands that if they are to win they have no choice but to lie....

Why do Republicans lie so much? Why is McCain following the Bush script? Why, at the very moment when he wanted a "maverick" by his side, did McCain pick a congenital liar to be his running mate? Republicans engage in what I can only call "structural lies." To understand what this means consider this: Just about every significant lie uttered by Republican politicians is designed to make them seem less conservative than they really are.

The current lie du jour of the McCain campaign is that their man will aggressively take on the greed that is causing the collapse on Wall Street. Given McCain's lack of interest in the economy, wealthy campaign contributors, and ideological hostility toward government regulation, this stance is laughable. But McCain's lie unconsciously reveals an important truth, which is that when the economy goes into a tailspin, the public prefers a solution long identified with liberalism. McCain could tell the truth, which is that he is all for the free market and can barely wait until the crisis passes so the rich can go about the business of becoming ever richer. But if he does that, he will lose. McCain wants to win. Therefore he lies.

It is not just the economy that features this structural dynamic. If you were just tuning into the election now -- no doubt there are many Americans who have not quite tuned in yet -- you would think that the Republican Party loves workers, hopes to redistribute income to the lower middle class, embraces immigrants, favors environmental protection, and hates war. Some of the Republican lies, to be sure have nothing to do with policy, such as false estimates of the size of the crowds attending Republican rallies or Sarah Palin's announcement that she had sold the Alaska governor's plane on eBay, but of those that do, the overwhelming majority are designed to make the Republican ticket more humane and moderate than it actually is. Only on foreign policy, where McCain shows no interest in hiding his hawkish instincts, can the ticket claim to be taking an honest position even if the face of public skepticism.

This sort of strategic lying to seem more liberal is far from the only sort of lying that McCain does.  But it is clearly central to his campaign, and tends to overshadow much else.  It is of a piece with his whole "maverick" schtick, which mostly consisted of hogging the limelight as much as possible when the GOP was so far out on a limb it was easy to take the "bipartisan" approach, and hog all the credit for himself.  And in this respect, McCain's strategic lying is not merely a matter of momentary convenience, but part of a longtime strategy.

Sarah Palin: Back To Sociopathy, Again

Finally, we come to Sarah Palin.  With her, we find oujrselves even more clearly back in the neighborhood of sociopathy, with her long history of manipulative relationships.  It's easy to miss this under the guise of more ordinary cronyism, but Palin has a long history of turning on those close to her, which is not at all what your sane crony politician does.  She got the nickname "Sarah Barracuda" at least in part for her vicious competetiveness against her own team-mates, as Salon founder David Talbot exlains in "Sarah Palin's wasteful ways":

Nick Carney, who is now retired in Utah, has a lot of time to ponder Sarah Palin's rise these days. When he and his wife picked Palin to run for City Council in 1992, because they felt the council needed an average-mom type like her, Carney had no idea how far their protégé would soar. "It was a very casual process, she wasn't even our first choice. We had known her since she was a girl, she went to school with our daughter. It wasn't that she was the brightest thing on the horizon, a rising star or anything like that."

But, in hindsight, Carney can see the qualities that have rocket-propelled Palin to where she is today.

"'Sarah Barracuda' -- she's proud of that name now, she uses it in her campaigns," said her former mentor. "But she got that name from the way she conducted herself with her own teammates. She was vicious to the other girls, always playing up to the coach and pointing out when the other girls made mistakes. She was the coach's favorite and he gave her more playing time than her skills warranted. My niece was on her team; she was a very good player. I used to sit there in the stands, and I would wonder, Why on earth is Sarah getting so much playing time?"

That's fairly typical sociopathic behavior.  Again, I'm not saying that Palin is a sociopath.  But I am saying that thinking of her in terms of that framework can bring some things into focus that otherwise don't make much sense.

A similar portrait emerges from the very beginning of Talbot's piece:

Sarah Palin has been touting herself as fiscal watchdog throughout her political career. But Palin's tenure as mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, was characterized by waste, cronyism and incompetence, according to government officials in the Matanuska Valley, where she began her fairy-tale political rise.

"Executive abilities? She doesn't have any," said former Wasilla City Council member Nick Carney, who selected and groomed Palin for her first political race in 1992 and served with her after her election to the City Council.

Four years later, the ambitious Palin won the Wasilla mayor's office -- after scorching the "tax and spend mentality" of her incumbent opponent. But Carney, Palin's estranged former mentor, and others in city hall were astounded when they found out about a lavish expenditure of Palin's own after her 1996 election. According to Carney, the newly elected mayor spent more than $50,000 in city funds to redecorate her office, without the council's authorization.

"I thought it was an outrageous expense, especially for someone who had run as a budget cutter," said Carney. "It was also illegal, because Sarah had not received the council's approval."

According to Carney, Palin's office makeover included flocked, red wallpaper. "It looked like a bordello."

Although Carney says he no longer has documentation of the expenditures, in his recollection Palin paid for the office face-lift with money from a city highway fund that was used to plow snow, grade roads and fill potholes -- essential municipal services, particularly in weather-battered Alaska.

Carney confronted Mayor Palin at a City Council hearing, and was shocked by her response.

"I braced her about it," he said. "I told her it was against the law to make such a large expenditure without the council taking a vote. She said, 'I'm the mayor, I can do whatever I want until the courts tell me I can't.'"

That's sociopathy: No conscience.  I can do whatever I can get away with.

Sociopaths can be excellent liars, because they have no internal restrictions whatsoever on what they'll say.  Anything that gets the job done is fine.  Their lying can also be seen as a natural extension of their "mask of sanity," an effortless extension of their carefully crafted simulacrum of normal humanity.  Palin--like many sociopaths--lies boldly and fearlessly precisely because anyone who's not a sociopath is generally inhibited in lying.  Speaking boldly, therefore, is generally an indicatioin of truthfulness.  Which is why it boldly-stated lies work so well in most circumstances.  And when it fails?  Well, sociopaths are nothing if not quick on their feet, making up new lies on the spot.  And we've seen that as well with Palin, as she's offered an ever-chancing explanation for why she fired Walt Monegan.

Again, I don't want to say that Palin is a sociopath.  I'm only saying that much of her behavior makes sense in terms of that framework.  And to the extent that it does, the sociopathic framework is useful in understanding what she's up to.

Palin is similar to Bush, in that both seems to exhibit sociophathic traits.  But Bush is decidedly meaner, while Palin can at least put on a much sunnier demeanor.  Bush also has a much more elaborate support mechanism, not just as President, but going all the way back to his oil patch days, when his friends--knowing his family--pulled him out of one failed enterprise after another.  Heck, forget about the oil patch.  It goes all the way back to his AWOL time in the Texas Air National Guard!  Palin has a lot less of this sort of protection--though her rightwing networks certainly don't leave her alone in the world.  Still, quite unlike Bush, she had to build these up mostly on her own.  


Conclusion: So Many Lies, So Little Time

This diary has been an attempt to help people become more efficient in dealing with Republican lies.  This is surely not the only way to make sense of them, and I encourage others to join me in the quest to find new and different ways of making sense of them.  One thing's for damn sure: we'll never make sense of anything by believing a word they say.


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Other side (0.00 / 0)
I'm mostly interested in the other side of this coin: Why do Republican voters tolerate extremely blatant dishonesty from their politicians? I would submit that we Democrats don't do that. We will tolerate personal foibles like affairs and such, but we cannot tolerate the kind of aggressive dishonesty that is so apparent in the list of Republicans you mention. The same is true of Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity, etc. They just flat out lie again and again and again, but conservatives don't care. Liberal talkers like Maddow and Al Franken do not behave that way.

We are fundamentally different from Republican voters.


It's The Rightwing Authoritarianism! (4.00 / 1)
Robert Altemeyer wrote about this in The Authoritarian Specter.  RWA's are suckers for deceitful politicians, so deceitful politicians just naturally gravitate toward higher concentrations of RWAs.

The interesting thing is that among everyday voters the numbers of RWAs aren't that much higher in the GOP than the Democratic Party.  There's a difference, all right, but it's not overwhelming.  But as you go up the ladder to state legislators--which Altemeyer did in the early 1990s--then you find some really striking differences.  Clearly a lot more research needs to be done to be certain, but my pretty good hypothesis here is that people tend to trust channels of communication that they are close to and familiar with.  So the ordinary voters tend to trust the community and party leaders they are close to and familiar with.  On the Dem side, these are leaders who themselves are more critical, on the GOP side, it's leadrs who are more authoritarian and gullible.

That's the quick and dirty expanation.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Media (4.00 / 2)
I agree. This is why I argue that we need to aggressively take back control of the media and return it to the people. Extremely blatant liars could not succeed if the "mainstream" media (whatever broadcasts to the masses) would directly call them out on it. Independents in the middle would shy away from such politicians. They don't now because the press gives them a free pass.

I'd go further. If we do nothing about the media, we will lose, eventually. Even if Obama wins, that press will tear an Obama administration apart as they follow the latest fake outrages from the right.


[ Parent ]
I Agree 100% (0.00 / 0)
It's all a part of hegemonic struggle.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Just look at the other stuff that they believe in (0.00 / 0)
and it all makes sense. E.g. that their guns are what protect them from government intrusion and oppression, that some invisible bearded white dude created the world 5800 years ago, that aborting a 2 week old embryo is killing a live baby, etc. It's not as if these people are living in reality otherwise. So they're already inclined to believe in--and I would argue NEED to believe in--lies in general, at least those that align with, support and reinforce the myths that they already believe in.

And the key is that these lies do align with their mythology, and not challenge them. Limbaugh et al are merely telling them what they want to hear, or what will align with what they already believe in. When your worldview is already based in dishonesty (or, perhaps, since many of them don't realize that what they believe in is untrue, fantasy and mythology posing as reality), then your capacity for believing in further lies that harmonize with the lies (or myths) that you already believe in is enormous.

And I would further argue that it's not just a capacity, but a NEED. They NEED to be lied to, to reinforce the core lies in the face of a reality which is constantly challenging them. It's very self-reinforcing.

As anyone who's tried to argue with a wingnut realizes. Truth and logic just don't register, when they conflict with long-held beliefs. Other mechanisms are necessary to break through their mythological and illogical worldviews, for which most of us simply don't have the talent and/or energy and time. Fewer things more draining than having a "discussion" with a wingnut.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
Something I read somewhere (4.00 / 1)
and it seems to be true, is that inexplicable naivete is often a sign of repression.

Sometimes you can be working with people, and they claim not to know something you know they know, but they don't "know" it. And the reason is, that knowledge is tied either directly or indirectly with something so painful and overwhelming that their subconscious mind protects them by not letting it enter their consciousness.

I think this happens to Republican voters a lot.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Disremembering (0.00 / 0)
That's what I call that sort of thing.

I heard someone use the word "disremembered" once when I was a child.  I think it simply a mistake on their part, they meant to say, "misremembered," but it immediately struck me as an apt description of just what you're talking about.

Little childern generally have little need to disremember things, so it can be quite striking to see how much grownups do it.  And that's precisely the situation I was in when I first heard the word.  To me, it not only means intentional forgetting, but also remembering something in a way that hides a painful truth--sometimes by compeltely inverting the truth, other times just by skillfully editing it.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
What I was thinking of, (0.00 / 0)
and it was a painful occasion, was I was on a board and an off-going member took the occasion of his last meeting to warn the rest of us about an on-coming member. He told us basically, "his agenda is this, he is in league with so-and-so and he is going to do this."

It was, quite frankly, terrifying, and everything he said came to pass. Yet when I mentioned that meeting later, two other people who were there, who were standing right there and heard those words, claimed not to remember any of it.

It made me a believer in the phenomenon of repression, that's for sure. I believe the men who later said "I don't remember that" are telling the truth, they really don't remember it, because it was so scary and they didn't know what to do with the information at the time. So they unheard it.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Ah, I get it... (4.00 / 1)
... Republican liars are like snowflakes: no two of them are alike.

Ah! Such A Beauuuuuuutiful Truth! (0.00 / 0)
It makes me tingly all over just thinking about it!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Didn't noted GOPologist Al Franken write a book on this? (4.00 / 1)
Anyone who's listened to Repub legislators make speeches in the house or senate, or speak to the press, or appear on pundit shows, understands exactly what you mean. They lie so facily, that it's easy to just write it off as something that they naturally do, and not be vigilant about it. Which is when the lies begin to take on the appearance of truth. E.g. "tax and spend liberals", "soft of terror", "coddling criminals". Which our side has yet to adequately counter with equally powerful labels--which happen to benefit from being substantially true.

Anyway, there are certainly dishonest Dems (I will not name names, but there are some pretty obvious examples, at least one of which is quite painful, and which we're all trying to not think about right now), but Repubs take the cake on this one, hands down, because they lie with much more frequency, much more blatantly, much more blithely. It's a wonder that a Sarah Palin hadn't emerged earlier. But perhaps we should be grateful that she finally has, since she's so massively and uncraftily dishonest, that she may well have finally achieved what we have been unable to all these years, which is to make the public realize just how FUNDAMENTALLY dishonest and untrustworthy the GOP really is. I mean, if Nixon were alive, he'd probably admire her moxie, but find her to be way out of her element and a net negative to the party at the level that she's been allowed to operate, because she's so obvious a liar.

I mean, perhaps I'm taking this too far, but did everyone see her on Hannity this week (via excerpts on other networks, I assume, as I couldn't bring myself to watch THAT channel). She lost the schoolmarmish look, and had a completely new and much sexier hair style and makeup job. Tell me that this wasn't specifically meant to one, manipulate the easily manipulated and very stupid Hannity, and two, manipulate male viewers into voting for her (and that other dude) based solely on her sexual attractiveness. She's going after the "MILF"-obsessed stupid male vote, by presenting herself as some sex kitten who, on some subconsious level, these pea-brained dolts imagine they might have sex with! To me, that's yet another form of lying. It's really the ONLY way that they can appeal to people beyond their delusional base, without which they simply cannot win.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


I dunno (0.00 / 0)
I read up on what was then called psychopathy when I was in grad school, and one author I read -- perhaps Cleckley -- pointed out that psycho(socio)paths are actually well suited to some roles in life. They can, for instance, clean up the body parts after a plane crash without suffering from nightmares for years afterward. One of the roles they are well-suited to is that of politician. Your presentation focuses on Republican politicians, but I know you are not naive enough to believe that Democratic politicians are not also liars. I think we need to realize that there are aspects of American culture that make politicians lie in response to voters' demands that they be lied to.

It was when Walter Mondale ran for president that I first realized that the market for political lies is a demand economy. Mondale said, truthfully, that taxes would have to be raised to deal with the economic meltdown brought on by Reagan's profligate ways. For that he was soundly roasted on all sides, and of course lost to the guy telling us the sweet, sunny, optimistic lies that we craved.

There are a number of absolutely untouchable truths that American politicians of either party may not tell because the electorate will not tolerate them. Among those truths are:
-- If you want more government services you will have to pay more taxes.
-- America is not always or even frequently a force for good in the world.
-- The interests of Israel are not the same as the interests of the U.S. and the latter can be harmed by too much allegiance to the former.
-- People who attack the U.S. might have some legitimate grievances..
-- The system of justice in this country is radically different for the poor and the rich, and for the poor it is frequently not anything we'd recognize as justice at all.

Political activists can and do say these things, but woe betide anyone running for office who dares to. If the American electorate wanted truth from politicians we would get it. But we don't and we won't.

If the Republicans traffic in certain lies (and Dems in others) it's not necessarily because of the personality traits of individuals, it's because of the different audiences they play to, or the different desires of their audiences at different times. Yes, at this moment a large portion of the voting audience wants to hear that these representatives of the political uberclass will, if elected, act to help ordinary people even at the expense of the oligarchs -- and for Republicans that means moving further from their records than it does for Dems. However, whoever wins, I will believe it when I see it.

No society that feeds its children on tales of successful violence can expect them not to believe that violence in the end is rewarded. -Margaret Mead


You Seem To Have Spectacularly Misread This Diary (0.00 / 0)
My point here was not that all these liars are the same (i.e. all sociopaths) but they are different.  You are headed in exactly the opposite direction, tarring everyone with the same brush.

In fact, I said a number of times that I'm not calling anyone a sociopath.  I'm not a trained clinical psychologist.  I am merely pointing out what are, to me, useful patterns.  I am fully aware that we know far too little about the various patterns of human deception, and I'm just trying to make a little dent in that ignorance, and encourage others to join me.

To take this cautious starting point, and launch into the sweeping claim that "One of the roles they [sociopaths] are well-suited to is that of politician" strikes me as an enormous leap that simply defies all reason.

It's certainly true that our country, like all others, has its political taboos.  But that's a whole different kettle of fish.  My whole point is that people lie for very different reasons, and dealing with taboo subjects is a reason I didn't even get close to.

One of the most obvious things I would say in response to you is that it's not the job of politicians to break down taboos.  It arguably should be, of course.  But that's simply not the way that our politics work.  And this is a social, cultural, political and institutional problem, not an individual one.  

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Sociopaths are the LAST people (4.00 / 1)
who are suited to being politicians.

Politics is the most deeply human thing we ever do. Sociopaths (although they are powerfully drawn to the field) have no business in politics whatsoever.

We need to be identifying these people in the larval stage, when they are mere city council people and utility commissioners and nipping them off right there.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Bullshitting (0.00 / 0)
I'm a fan of Harry Frankfurt's essay On Bullshit

In the essay, Frankfurt sketches a theory of bullshit, defining the concept and analyzing its applications. In particular, Frankfurt distinguishes bullshitting from lying; while the liar deliberately makes false claims, the bullshitter is simply uninterested in the truth. Bullshitters aim primarily to impress and persuade their audiences. While liars need to know the truth, the better to conceal it, the bullshitter, interested solely in advancing his own agenda, has no use for the truth. Following from this, Frankfurt claims that "bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are."

Bullshitting combines elements you've identified with confabulation and sociopathy.  I find the phrase "uninterested in the truth" explains much of the conservative disposition, particularly the neo-con, Bush/Cheney variety.


My Initial Reaction Was, Oh Sure! (0.00 / 0)
I remember reading that.  But then I checked out what Wikipedia said about it, puiblication history and all, and I think I was just bullshitting myself.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Have you seen this? (4.00 / 1)
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo...

Someone who worked under Palin said her general pattern was an initial burst of enthusiasm, followed by neglect.

It certainly fits in with the picture you have painted here.

Montani semper liberi


Thanks For The Link (0.00 / 0)
No, I didn't see it before. But I had read similar comments about her.  This is, of course, consitent with sociopathy, but it describes an awful lot of people who aren't sociopaths, too.

The mere fact that she had to hire a city manager to do the job that mayors before her did themselves really told me everything I felt I needed know in a bottom line way on this subject:  she's a no guts, all glory kind of person.  Which, after all, is the perfect beauty queen stereotype.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
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