Canada Election Thread

by: Daniel De Groot

Tue Oct 14, 2008 at 21:19


( - promoted by Chris Bowers)

Here's a chart of three prediction sites that have attempted to go riding-by-riding across all 308 federal districts:
SiteCPCLPCNDPBQGPCInd
Laurier U13290335102
Election Prediction Project12594365102
Vote For Environment13185385202
2006 Result124103295101
Seats at Election Call12795304812
2008 Result14376375002
Popular Vote37.626.418.29.96.80.65

You should be able to watch live at Canada's C-Span, CPAC or just see static results at Elections Canada.  You might also try watching CBC online (link on lower right).

I will update here, and the chart above as results come in after 10pm EST (for some reason the networks are saying polls close at 9:30EST - 7PM in BC is 10PM in Ontario, no?).  Legally no results can be released until voting stops in BC and the Yukon, under the theory that voters out west should not have the advantage of knowing how the rest of the country voted before making up their minds.  This is an open thread for the election, but inside some analysis of the last few days and what might happen here.

11:35PM  Ok, it looks like the biggish events of the night are done.  The NDP are hoping to keep their 1 Quebec seat, and the Conservatives would really like to win a seat in one of Canada's biggest 3 cities - they have a shot in Vancouver due to the 3-way split thing there.  Locked out of Toronto and Montreal proper again.

Don't let the seat totals say more than they should, the Conservatives so far are only getting about 37% of the popular vote, and turn out is supposed to be quite low.  63% of Canadians did not want the Conservatives in charge.  Yay British electoral system.

Previous updates below the fold.

Daniel De Groot :: Canada Election Thread
10PM CBC projects Conservative government, just remains whether it will be majority or minority.

Green Party leader May did not win her seat.

10:10PM These results are based on some pretty low number early counts in many ridings, but it's not looking good for any kind of progressive government in Canada.

10:25PM Liberals down significantly in Ontario, but made gains in Quebec.  Currently leading in a rural Quebec riding, which is surprising.

10:35PM NDP flirting with their best ever performance of 43 seats under Ed Broadbent.  Bloc Quebecois have not performed to expectations.  Pierre Trudeau's son Justin and astronaut Marc Garneau are leading for the Liberals in their Montreal ridings, which is a silver lining for the Liberals.

10:45PM CBC projects it will not be a majority government.  Whew.  Also, Harper's Senate Appointed Cabinet member from Quebec is going down in well deserved flames.

===============
Stephen Harper is almost certain to keep his job as Prime Minister today.  He has an outside shot at a majority if the vote splitting on the left goes particularly badly.  If it goes particularly well, there is a small chance of a Liberal or Liberal/NDP minority government.  Assuming Harper wins a plurality of the seats, there is a fairly remote chance of a Liberal/NDP/Bloc coalition.  All in all, a pretty chaotic situation.  And yet, I get the sense that many Canadians are unsatisfied with their choices, particularly Harper and Dion, and with the market meltdown it isn't clear who is the "winner" with the uncertainty.  Harper might have been, but did not handle it well (he remarked that there were good investment opportunities on the worst crash day).

Canadian markets were closed yesterday for our Thanksgiving (really, having in October is much nicer, it's warmer and the leaves are really colourful).  However, today, yesterday's big recovery came north.   That may have some impact on people's last minute voting preferences.  What exactly I can't really guess.  

Finally, the big wildcard to me is the Green Party vote.  Latest polling has the Greens at between 7 and 11% of the national vote, which is significantly higher than their 4.5% of the vote in 2006.  Similarly, the NDP are hovering at 20%.  Ordinarily in Canadian elections, the NDP and Greens lose some support on election day if there is a threat of a Conservative victory, particularly a majority.  The last couple weeks of polling have the Conservatives below the usual threshold for a majority (40%) but that threshold was arrived at under a pile of elections that did not include the Green party garnering possibly double digits.  Most voters probably do not think the Conservatives will win a majority which will blunt their desire to vote strategically for the Liberals.  Ironically, this will increase the odds of a Conservative majority as there are enough seats where a "perfect" split of the left's vote will give the Conservatives the seat.  This will no doubt happen once or twice, but for a majority, the Conservatives will have to draw an inside straight by doing so over about 20-30 ridings.  Possible but not likely.

Regional Rundown

Canada is usually thought of in five regions:  The Atlantic, Quebec, Ontario, the Praries and BC.  The groupings are debatable and of course this ignores the North but it is a convention in wide use so I'll keep it here.

In the four Atlantic provinces, the Conservatives will likely lose seats.  The Liberals poll highest and may even gain a couple.  The NDP have a couple and may pick up also.  Green leader Elizabeth May has a longshot chance in her Conservative lean district held by the Conservative deputy party leader and Minister of National Defence, Peter MacKay.  The Liberals are not running a candidate there, and have endorsed May in that riding, but the NDP are running a candidate.  MacKay will likely win, but May squeaking out a win would be a nice surprise.

The Conservatives really hurt themselves in Quebec, and are now in third place behind the Bloc and Liberals in the province.  Historically, the Conservatives have only ever been able to forge a majority with substantial support in Quebec.  As it stands, the Conservatives may actually lose seats in Quebec (and the Atlantic too) which will make a majority even more out of reach for them.  The NDP will likely hold their 1 seat but I don't see them winning any others and neither do any of the prediction sites.  Dion's french language debate performance gave the Liberals a real boost in Quebec and probably cut the flow of progressive federalist Quebecois to the NDP.

Moving west, the Conservatives, Liberals and NDP are all competitive in Ontario, which has 106 seats and will again be decisive as to the outcome.  In the praries (Manitoba and Saskatchewan) the Cons are dominant with the NDP and Liberals competitive only in a handful of seats, Alberta will elect 28 out of 28 Conservatives leaving BC as the final battle ground, with a selection of three-way competitive ridings and even higher Green support than the national average.  The North has only 3 seats which will likely go 2 Liberal and 1 NDP.  

Also, I wrote a Canadian Primer earlier for US readers that may be some help in understanding the situation up here.  The comments are recommended since some readers take issue with my take and I don't claim to be the end-all of Canadian commentary and opinion.


Tags: , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
CBC on CSPAN (0.00 / 0)
will be releasing results from the Atlantic provinces at 9:30.  It will be interesting.

One thing always strikes me when I watch Canadian Returns: it is a big country..


Wooo! Minority government! (0.00 / 0)
I'm counting that as a relative victory for the good guys. Can't let a largely meaningless Conservative victory in Canada put a damper on the coming progressive wave down here in the US of A.

The thing is (4.00 / 1)
is that the Conservatives are not the GOP. They're probably in line with the Blue Dog caucus.

See this is the thing. Basically, the conservatives have proved to the Canadian publci that they aren't like the US Republicans. As such, the Liberals are kind of at sea. Because the Liberals basic calling card was that they were a moderate pro-market party and the conservatives are dangerous US-style Republican trojan horse.

Now Harper has basically proved that isn't true. So the Liberals are stuck. They don't represent a real policy alternative to the Conservatives like the NDP do. So they are squeezed from both sides, by center-right voters who now feel they can trust the Tories as basically a European style center-right party, not like the US GOP. On the left, they are squeezed by center-left voters who don't feel they have to vote Liberal to block the Conservatives coming to power, so they vote NDP.

In many ways, the Liberals are the natural governing party in Canada, but they are kind of lost at the moment because the Tories have very successfully outmaneuvered them (and to an extent so have the NDP).


[ Parent ]
The other side (0.00 / 0)
is historically when I followed Canadian Politics the Liberals would win a ton of seats in Quebec.  More than a few of the significant Liberal prime ministers came from Quebec, and they took with them large margins out of that province.

That is all gone.  In the end you have to ask, how likely is it that ANY party can get to a majority with the second largest Province essentially passing.    


[ Parent ]
Danel .. (0.00 / 0)
any clue if Neil Young is still eligible to vote  .. as he is still a Canadian citizen(despite living just south of San Fran for the last .. close to 40 years now)

ha (0.00 / 0)
I imagine so.  We don't expire citizenships that I know of, but I don't know how our ex-pats vote exactly.  You're supposed to be a resident of a riding to vote there.


[ Parent ]
I don't follow Canadian Politics like I used to (4.00 / 1)
but I have to say I am shocked at how badly the Liberals are doing.  Barely 80 seats - wow.  Nothing west of Ontario.

The Conservatives can't get a majority - but they look to have done well.  The NDP seems to have done very well - but the left split is really amazing.  It occurs to me that the left split is something that happens when people are confortable with if they believe that the social institutions of Canada would not be seriously hurt by a Conservative Majority.

Would that we had such a luxery.


I count (0.00 / 0)
them leading in 7 west of Ontario.

But the bad news for them is that they are down almost 3% in national popular vote.  The Cons have only gained a point on the 2006 result, but the more even split on the left gives them a pile of additional seats.


[ Parent ]
I was basing that (0.00 / 0)
on something one of the CBC talking heads said - which was wronf.  

[ Parent ]
Looks to be a minority CPC government. (4.00 / 1)
There's very little chance the LPC, BQ and NDP come together to form a majority government. They tried this when Liberals were dethroned in Canada before, and it failed spectacularly. The BQ simply does not want to partner with the LPC.

Mayhaps they could come together for true (0.00 / 0)
proportional representation amendments, and then go their separate ways.

[ Parent ]
Thanks for translating (0.00 / 0)
I'm from Michigan originally, so I've always had an affection for Canada, but never followed Canadian politics. I liked watching the Wings on the CBC though. So much better coverage than ESPN or ABC or -- God help us -- Fox.

Conduct your own interview of Sarah Palin!

Kinda sucks (0.00 / 0)
how the NDP and LP can get nearly a million more votes and be down 32 seats. Gotta love by-district allocation...

My response to Republicans who told me to leave the US if I didn't like the 2004 Election results:
"To hell with that, we're taking this place back!"


My reaction (0.00 / 0)
for what its worth, is that the only real winner was the Bloc (though the Greens could claim a victory I guess).

To an outsider, it seems obvious that continued strength by the BLOC in Federal Elections can have only one result.  Now I grew up south of Quebec, and the Canadians I have known the best are almost all Francophones, so I am sure my perception is off.  But it just seems that a situation in which the party that holds the balance of power is also a party that wants to leave Canada is simply not sustainable.


However, it's been "not sustainable"... (4.00 / 1)
....for at least 31+ years.

[ Parent ]
No, only 18 (4.00 / 1)
The election of a PQ government in the provincial legislature was not the seminal moment. The failure of the Meech Lake agreement in 1990 was really THE final straw.

[ Parent ]
That is my memory (0.00 / 0)
The Party under Leveque had become decimated.  The PQ rose out of the ashes of Meech Lake.  

[ Parent ]
You're absolutely right (4.00 / 1)
This has been a consequence of the failure of the Meech Lake accord, back in 1990 and illustrated by Bloc majorities in Quebec since the 1993 federal election (6 consecutive times).

A large number of Quebecers have simply given up out of Canada (with an estimated turnout of approximately 50%) and unless there is something earth-shattering happening (involving a new constitutional deal which would go much farther than Meech), I simply don't see how Quebec will re-engage in Canadian national politics.

Oh, and BTW, Quebec is the province where Conservatives fared worst, with 22% of the vote.


[ Parent ]
And yet (0.00 / 0)
I read that there is little chance the PQ could get nearly as close as they did in '95 to winning a referendum.

At some point something has to give.


[ Parent ]
That's true (0.00 / 0)
The PQ is weak right now and their option is stagnant, but given favorable circumstances, it could happen. Not today, but a few years down the road? Since, the sovereignty option has been pronounced dead so many times in the past, one should not be so foolish as to dismiss it.

[ Parent ]
Looking at it through British eyes (4.00 / 1)
America integrates its ethnic minorities. You are ethnicity-American and within a couple of generations which particular ethnicity quite possibly only matters for a couple of haltingly observed customs.

That's all well and good for immigrants. Much of the rest of the world tries to do the same, although rarely as successfully.

But Quebec isn't like that. It's much more comparable to Scotland, Catalonia or Wales. It's an area with a different ethnic heritage which feels oppressed by central government.

This may manifest itself in separatist tendencies, but it's not disastrous. Especially because parties that represent such areas, such as the SNP, tend to inject a much needed dose of populism into politics (and in recent decades defiantly left-wing populism at that) and their political success often does not track especially well with support for independence.

That's not to say I like this situation. I may be closer to any of Plaid Cymru's proposals that don't involve Welsh culture than I am to Labour's positions, but I'll still be pissed off if they split the socialist vote somewhere and let in the Lib Dems or the Tories.

But it's not disastrous. It's merely the inevitable consequence of a multi-party system in a nation with zones of wildly different cultural heritages. Canada is a severe case because Quebec is so important for Canada as a whole, but it's perfectly sustainable.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


[ Parent ]
Bonsoir, Monsieur Dion.... (4.00 / 2)
Bonjour, Monsieur Kennedy, peut-etre?

Sure would be nice to pin this on right vs left (4.00 / 1)
Jack Layton brought forward a message about poverty and wealth disparity, brought forth a debate about closing a gap in who benefits from society. At the end of the of the campiagn the Liberals ran right, in shame and lies.

They ran saturation radio ads in all markets for days saying the NDP would "raise taxes on small businesses" when the only tax item in the NDP platform, was an opposition to the Conservative's, and get this, read it right, plan to lower the marginal tax rate on Banks, Oil Companies and other hugely wealthy corporations from the lower than U.S. level of 22% to an amazing 15%.

Yes thats right the Liberals attacked the NDP for opposing the conservative tax give away to oil companies --- as if it was a tax on small business "that would end employment for millions."

Same on the Bush Dog Liberals, shame on the Liberal party for running away from any progressive message at all.

And congratulations to Jack Layton for increasing real progressive seats in Parliament to 38 seats, including a breakthrough in Quebec. (which is hugely important for very very complex reasons)

Who won tonight?

The NDP won by putting very progressive messages, very progressive policies and goals right in the centre of debate, and going from 30 seats to 38 seats.

The right wing of the Liberal Party won tonight, in their attempt to castrate the left wing of the Liberal Party, even at the expense of Canada.

The Conservatives won a little, by having another weak, opposed, hated and untrusted 'minority' government, who must beg support for every bill from parties who oppose their agenda. There are no right wing parties for them to beg support from, except the Liberals, consumed in a self destructive fight for power inside the their party.

Its a fractured voting pattern not a conservative country. 65% of Canada oppose the conservative agenda. It only requires leadership to prevent bad policy.

Kinda like congress unable to find their ass on Iraq and wiretapping. Daniel may not like the contrast and comparison but it is more than accurate, it is a mirror.

--

The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky


Greens (4.00 / 1)
Great news that the Canadian Greens did so well tonight, although too bad May didn't win her race.

Republicans (0.00 / 0)
The question that will be very interesting in America over the next 4 years is whether the GOP will be smart enough to remake itself in the image of Cameron, Harper, Sarkozy, Merkel or whether they will move even closer to the fringe with a Palin or Jindal. My money is on the latter since the right wing parties in the above countries didn't have a rabid social conservative constituency holding them hostage. The center-right may have to emerge as an entirely re-branded party as the GOP brand will be essentially dead. Party of Lincoln no more.

Barring unforeseen circumstances, I'll vote Dem the rest of my life, it would just be nice to lose the occasional election (which will happen again eventually) without feeling like the entire world is at stake.  


because of the winner take all it will be the latter (4.00 / 1)
and, as parties shrink, the remnant is always the "true believers", it is the Buckleys not the Limbaughs that are abandoning the party.

Consequently, if Obama falls flat on his face we will face naked fascism with sizable grass roots support rather than the crypto cum aristocratic fascism of Bush.


[ Parent ]
How I lust for an American Parliament (0.00 / 0)
with a proportional representation system.

10% of the votes, 10% of the seats.


I'm glad to say (0.00 / 0)
That you were dead wrong about Alberta, Daniel. :)

Edmonton-Strathcona, represent.


Yeah (0.00 / 0)
That's a pleasant surprise.  Happy to see signs Alberta is getting sick of being a 1-party province.


[ Parent ]
USER MENU

Open Left Campaigns

SEARCH

   

Advanced Search

QUICK HITS
STATE BLOGS
Powered by: SoapBlox