Give me a break (0.00 / 0)

Oh come one, equalling the 1960s when many of our cities experienced riots that burned parts of them down?

Not going to happen.

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by: Cols714 @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 21:17:38 PM UTC

look at it from a right-wingers perspective (4.00 / 3)

Some number of them - 3%? 5%? - evidently literally believe that Obama is an arab terrorist. A Nebraska woman was quoted in a recent New York Times article saying she thought Obama is the Anti-Christ.

From this perspective, it must seem like a violent struggle to keep him out of power would be patriotic and morally righteous. Hopefully the election will have a decisive outcome, passions will fade, and life will go on. But if there is a disputed election, I can definitely see things getting out of hand.

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by: Chachy @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 21:56:24 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

That is a great point! (0.00 / 0)

They truly believe it's good versus evil and they're fighting on God's side. They're willing to die in the process, just like certain jihadists we all know of, in the certainty that they've earned their way into heaven, just like if they had bombed an abortion clinic.

Assuming Obama comes out on top, we have to be very careful. The last think we need is to pass another set of alien and sedition acts, laws aimed at silencing dissent by the strongest possible means.

BUT, it does strike me that it might be wise to rethink the tax exempt status of organizations advocating violence towards others and the government. Freedom to practice your religion shouldn't necessarily be freedom to advocate and agitate for treason.

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by: Silence Doesnogood @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 22:05:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

They're not really ready (0.00 / 0)

to die for their cause.  After all, they're consumer focused... it's hard to buy the new HD TeeVee if you're dead. Most of them are really a bunch of cowards.  Yes a few of them are super crazy, but most would just barricade themselves in their home and stroke their guns and chew on their bitter bile.  

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by: jroyale @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 22:09:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

they are as ready to die for their cause (0.00 / 0)

as the 9/11 hijackers were to die for theirs.

They are religious fanatics. Don't mistake them.

Not all of them are that devout. But a significant hard core of them are.

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by: limpidglass @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 22:23:45 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes, They Have The Belief System, All Right (4.00 / 1)

But they get their information via email.

You have to go out in the real world to riot and stuff.  And that's precisely what so many of them find so frightening.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 22:12:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Actually, FL lege voting its electors for Bush (4.00 / 2)

would have been a VAST improvement over the accountability-free, anti-democratic means imposed by the SCOTUS. At least the former method is constitutional. Had the FL lege done so, there would have been means to boot them all from office as payback, and/or enough outrage to spur major action to amend the Constitution and/or pass laws to ensure that voting occurs properly in this country.

We are still a banana republic whenever votes get within the margin of error. This will continue to be so until we organize and muster the strength to pass a new federal voting rights act that ensures one standard of voting and vote-counting across the country.

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by: Ron @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 21:28:53 PM UTC

Being a Georgian, and reflecting on today's events, (0.00 / 0)

I have to agree that the situation is trending in a nasty way. The Insane Right does seem to have declared open season on Leftists. And with the recent court rulings on gun control, we've made sure that they have to accoutrements needed.

But it looked this bad around the time of McVeigh. The Right hated Clinton, and violence was just another tool they used to get their own way sort of a "tantrum as patriotism" thing.

It is a bit scarier than it was because now we know about the Bush internment camp plans, and we have a pretty god damned good idea of who they'll put in those camps.

Overall, I'm not too frightened, because now the establishment seems to be latching on to Obama, and that means they've decided he isn't dangerous enough to stop.

Don't expect major changes under Obama, He's already paying for the chance to be a serious candidate. But since the moneyed interests control the military, and they seem to be calm enough, I don't see anything besides isolated incidents by cretinous fools, like today's bombing.

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by: Silence Doesnogood @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 21:36:15 PM UTC

Yeah (0.00 / 0)

I expect to be repeatedly disappointed in the Democrats over the coming years... there's still just too many that are beholden to interests beside us, you know, the whole we the people ... err... people.

Still, I hope that Obama can start a long term movement where we can start taking back the system, piece by piece.  

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by: jroyale @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 22:03:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Instance of what's out there from Georgia (4.00 / 1)

I picked this up from an Ed Kilgore comment. He got it from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

The chairman of the Pike County Democratic party says she found a cooked, severed mouse head in a take-out meal after a confrontation with the husband of the restaurant owner - who allegedly accused her of registering "gutter scum" for the coming Nov. 4 election.

"Without saying it, he was referring to black people in no uncertain words," she said.

There's some scary anger out there, tapping into our American origin sin of racial fear.

Can it happen here?

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by: janinsanfran @ Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 18:00:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'd missed this! (0.00 / 0)

Thanks so much!

The sickening thing as always with this particular roll of toilet paper is the comments section, in which lives are threatened, democrats are libeled and slandered with impunity and it becomes obvious of just how prevalent these sorts of opinions really are in a state like Georgia, that has supposedly made so much progress.

It's possible the incident was a simple accident but the comments tell the real story, and show just how much of a role Cox newspapers have in winding up these idiots.

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by: Silence Doesnogood @ Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 18:23:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

it's by percentage of the population (4.00 / 1)

probbaly a small contingent that's right now invested in violence.  Kicking someone in the back of the leg is not really comparable to waht happens on a daily basis even in good times in a lot of parts of the world.  However, they still remain frightening and I think it's going to escalate unless progressiev populist institutions (like ACORN) take up the space that wingnuts et al are.  This is one reason, among many, why progressive leaders are SO important right now.

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by: dr anonymous @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 21:42:13 PM UTC

So far, thankfully, this is sporadic.... (0.00 / 0)

There will be more of this, but most likely not coordinated, and not on a large scale.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see white supremacist groups become more active after the election, but then, Bush and company have given the next President the ability to make their lives hell beyond imagining.  (And yes, it's a double-edged sword.)

Some conservatives have always believed they could intimidate us into any situation they preferred, and now they're finding it isn't quite so.  Some of them are bound to keep pushing, at an individual level, even into violent acts, in hopes that we'll buckle down if they're just a little more scary.

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by: palamedes @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 21:44:52 PM UTC

2000 (0.00 / 0)

The problem with the 2000 recounts in terms of violence and intimidation were not contemporaneous with the Supreme Court ruling. I know it all seems compressed in time, but that was much earlier on.

Florida would not have had to pledge its delegates by Legislature, which would have been constitutional-the Congress could have installed a Bush/Liebermann administration, which, after all, wouldn't have been that much different, would it?

It would have been Constitutional though.

There may be a problem if we get into a decisive recount or a 269 scenario, but all of those pale in comparison to what would happen if this violence is taken to its other logical conclusion, which I won't even type out.

THAT might make the 60s look calm.

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by: attorney at arms @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 21:54:03 PM UTC

It's the tone that these folks have set (0.00 / 0)

It will not be a surprise as the tone and the message get louder and more disgusting, to see violence erupt. Like has been said, I don't think that the Republican ticket and it's party realize the fire that they are playing with.  Hopefully Obama will win with enough margin, that the dirty nasty tricks that are now trying to influence the election have little or no effect.  But you always have to ask yourself this question about politics:

Do you think that those in power will give up that power.  What would the abdication of that power mean? What would they lose?  Why are they fighting so hard not to lose it?

Then ask yourself, how far will they go?  After what I have seen in the past few weeks, it's hard to say where it will stop or at one cost?  

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by: georgeg1011 @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 21:55:35 PM UTC

Not The 1960s (0.00 / 0)

I'm with Cols714, the comparison with the 1960s is way off base.  Not that the wingers lack the will for it.  But they're going to have to go after Chris Buckley and all sorts of other apostates, too. They are simply far to fragmented and far too discredited to mount that level of violence for any lengths of time.  In 2000, they might have pulled it off--though I very much doubt it.  But not today.

That's not to say we couldn't be looking at some serious violence.  We almost certainly are.  But we're talking mostly about the remnants of the 101st Keyboard Brigade, and their wannabes.  The "Militia Movement" of the early 1990s were more of a serious threat than these largely armchair putzes.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 22:10:38 PM UTC

I respectfully disagree (0.00 / 0)

The 101sters are just a propaganda front, to be put to use when conditions favor it. They no longer do, so they might start bringing in the far rougher "reserves", like the brain surgeon below, if they feel that they have no choice. They've been good at keeping this element under wraps for the most part, for PR reasons (no way they could have come close enough to steal 2 elections if they hadn't). But the Ted Nugent, David Duke, Mark Fuhrman wing of the movement is still very much out there, ready to be "deployed", when the front lines are no longer effective against the coming liberal resurgence.

Not to go all Godwin on ya, but what happened then and there can happen here and someday. I've never ever doubted that.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton

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by: kovie @ Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 06:17:59 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I agree, Paul, they're mostly just misinformed inflamed (0.00 / 0)

media addicts who might believe in dying for the cause but aren't likely to do it.

But of course there are enough Eric Rudolf's and the neighbors of mine who enabled him to hide away for so long to make it bear watching.

We on the left just have to be careful that we don't fall into the trap of thinking that voicing dissent is the same as engaging in dangerous activities. The Bushies have problems with this point. But if the laws regarding prohibiting churches from engaging in politics stand a court challenge, I would advocate taking a LONG HARD LOOK at the Roman Catholics and Southern Baptists.  

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by: Silence Doesnogood @ Fri Oct 17, 2008 at 22:39:37 PM UTC

Just as a matter of curiosity, (0.00 / 0)

does anyone besides the troll not understand that I was advocating the removal of tax exempt status and not violence? I thought it was pretty obvious.

I BELIEVE in religious freedom as only a half-assed Buddhist in a heavily Southern Baptist area can. As far as I'm concerned, you can believe anything you goddam please. When you start telling your zombie parishoners (sp? It's early!) who to vote for, that's another story and hearkens back to Cotton Mather a bit too much for me.

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by: Silence Doesnogood @ Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 13:46:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Were the Mexico, Kenya and Zimbabwe elections trial runs? (0.00 / 0)

Whether or not this scenario happens--and at this point only a rank fool could rule it out completely--the far right is not going to go down without pulling out literally all the stops. I have zero doubt that if pushed to cliff's edge, they will be willing to do anything. Anything.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton

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by: kovie @ Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 06:11:41 AM UTC