Hope In Arizona, Georgia, Indiana and Montana

by: Chris Bowers

Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 14:17


In my nearly final presidential forecast, I give the following breakdown:

  1. Obama at 338 minimum: Obama wins the Kerry states plus Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Nevada, New Mexico, Ohio, and Virginia.
  2. Three toss-ups: Missouri, North Carolina and North Dakota are the only remaining toss-ups, in that polls yet to be released could still flip those states.
  3. Four close states for McCain: Arizona, Georgia, Indiana and Montana are projected for McCain, even though there is still a small chance for Obama to win one or more of those four states.
This projection comes from looking at the simple mean of polling conducted during the final week of the campaign. I stand by this methodology despite it's simplicity, and even to a certain extent because of it's simplicity. I have come to believe that forecasting close (within single digits), statewide, general elections accurately is not the sole province of statistical wizards and those who wish to argue with polls. Instead, I believe it is something anyone can do as long as they have an Internet connection, and are willing to not argue with the polls they don't like. As long as you have the courage to look at all of the recent polls and avoid adding any special sauce of your own, then you can project close (within single digits), statewide, general elections as accurately as any "professional" forecaster around.

On November 5th, we will know if I am correct. However, if I turn out to be wrong, and Obama scores a larger than expected victory of around 400 electoral votes, the reason will be due to cell-phone only households. Within the last twenty-four hours, both fivethirtyeight.com and Pollster.com have released studies indicating that Obama leads by about 4% more in polls that include cell-phone only households, than he does in polls that do not.  A shift of that magnitude has the potential not only to push all three of the toss-up states to Obama, but also all four of the narrow McCain states. This could give Obama up to 406 electoral votes, and a national popular vote victory of 9-10%.

Now, I'm sticking with the "use all polls" and "don't argue with polls" philosophy, and instead projecting Obama to win by around 7% nationally and to pull in between 340-360 electoral votes. With only one day left, I will not abandon my old mantra, "the truth is always in between." However, this cell-phone only discrepancy should still give hope to those of you working in those four "Lean McCain" states. Keep in mind that there could also be a discrepancy in the other direction due to a lingering "Bradley effect," that might push Obama's victory down to around 5% or so, and which could still tip Florida and / or Ohio toward McCain. There is no circumstance I can forsee where Obama drops below 291 electoral votes, meaning the Kerry states plus Colorado, Iowa, Nevada, New Mexico and Virginia.

I am forecasting 7% and 340-360, but I can see reasonable people pegging the range anywhere from 4% to 10%, with electoral votes ranging from 291-406 (or even 407, with Nebraska-02). What is your final prediction? Let's lay it on the line in the comments.

Chris Bowers :: Hope In Arizona, Georgia, Indiana and Montana

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Agree (4.00 / 1)
I 100% agree with your floor and ceiling.  291-406 is where things are at right now.  

I like Obama for 382.  Kerry + IA, NH, NM, VA, CO as the base.  

Then add in NC, ND, OH, FL, MO, and GA as the shocker of the night.

IN and AZ go McCain by the barest of margins.  Texas is closer than we think it will be.


Don't forget poland (4.00 / 1)
I forgot to add the great state of Nevada as an O state as well.

[ Parent ]
Texas (0.00 / 0)
thanks! i'm glad someone else thinks so!

-10.00E

-5.88S


Larry Kissell for NC-08



"It's time to be patriotic about something other than war."


[ Parent ]
i thought (0.00 / 0)
hispanic turnout in early voting was not impressive.

I think it could have been close if there had been any resources devoted.


[ Parent ]
Hmmmm (4.00 / 1)
I'll go for your 338 minimum, add your three toss-ups, then subtract FL, and add MT, IN and GA.

That's pretty optimistic, I guess!


Landslide (0.00 / 0)
Obama 379 EV---picks off Fla, Ohio, NC, Indiana and GA in an upset
McCain 159 EV---holds on in Mizzou, ND, Montana, and Arizona

Final Popular Vote:

Obama 52.4%
McCain 47.1%

58 Senators

260 dems in the House


Prediction (0.00 / 0)
The "base" that Obama can count of is Kerry plus NM, IA, CO, and VA.    That is 291 and that is the minimum he will get

Obama should get OH, FL, NC, and NV - but he cannot count on them.   He he gets all of them he is at 358.   That is my "best guess".  

Obama has a chance in MO, IN, ND, AZ and GA.    If he gets all of them he hits his maximum which is 408  (409 with Nebraska-2).

I'm very confident of 7 Senate pickups (NM, CO, OR, VA, NH, NC, AK).   I see MN as a 50/50 possibility.   7 is the minimum and 8 is the maximum.  
 


291 for Obama (0.00 / 0)
I don't have faith in Ohio and the South (NC, FL, GA).  Fortunately the godless communist takeover in VA will carry the day there.  CO feels good for Obama too.


John McCain won't insure children

Revise: 296 (Add NV) (0.00 / 0)


John McCain won't insure children

[ Parent ]
Yeah, 291 minimum (0.00 / 0)
Maybe OH, too, but I don't believe in FL.  

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
Obama - 334 EVs (0.00 / 0)
From Chris' minimum, add NC, ND, and MT - then subtract FL (I consider it to be fools' gold).

Popular vote margin - 6.8%.

Senate +9 (Martin wins runoff 52/48 after leading by <1% on election night).

House +27.

The most joyous upset would be for the odious Patrick McHenry to lose in NC-10.  If that happens, my hangover may last until Friday.


I like this range! (0.00 / 0)
396 EVs: I agree with Brett Marty that Obama will win the Kerry states, plus IA, NM, CO, VA, NV, OH, FL, NC, MO, MT, ND, IN and, in a squeaker, GA.

Senate: +8 tomorrow (VA, NM, CO, AK, NC, NH, OR, MN) and +1 more in GA in the runoff.

House: +33, -3, for a final total of +30.

Gubernatorial: +1 in MO, retaining both NC and WA.

State legislatures: we pick up at least 5 state legislative chambers.

Prop 8 fails.

Here in Oregon, the Democrats again sweep all statewide races.

"And life is grand And I will say this at the risk of falling from favor With those of you Who have appointed yourselves To expect us To say something darker." -- Camper Van Beethoven


Mainstream (0.00 / 0)
My predict is pretty normal- the 338-200 margin with all of the mentioned swing states minus NC, MO, ND (or Montana).  I'm predicting 53-46 in the popular vote, the 7 point spread.

"Never be afraid to stand with the minority when the minority is right, for the minority which is right will one day be the majority." -William Jennings Bryan

the meta-analysis by Sam Wang (0.00 / 0)
http://election.princeton.edu/...

Agrees, roughly, with your predictions; in particular, his 95% confidence has a floor around 338 or so. My guess is that his prediction of 363 will stand up pretty strongly.

I think Wang's result, that Obama could push as high as 380, is interesting; his methodology is the most secure of the various "professional aggregators" I've seen.


landslide! (4.00 / 1)
My gut instinct is that, with the exception of the large sample non-tracking national polls, the polls are significantly undercounting Obama's strength. If you look at the big picture -- the worst economic crisis since the Depression, an unpopular war in its 5th year, the lowest rated lameduck President in history, right track-wrong track at a record low -- all signs point to a 1980 style landslide. The Bradley effect is a myth. Instead there is an Obama effect that will increase his margins in states with large black populations. His turnout machine far outpaces McCain's. And he has an advantage among cell phone users which isn't captured by many polls. Add it all up and I won't be surprised to see Obama polling 5+% higher tomorrow than he has been in the polling averages.

I think Obama will win by 10% or more in the popular vote. I see 381 being the floor for the electoral college with excellent chances of adding GA, SD, and AZ to get to 409 and slight chances of getting additional southern states (WV, LA, MS) to get even higher.


My prediction (0.00 / 0)
371 electoral votes. That's your 338 plus North Carolina and either North Dakota or Montana, plus a shocker in Georgia. Missouri and Indiana go to McCain.

I believe Georgia is the only among those is me thinking with my heart instead of my head. But my head is in the game, with Obama well ahead in early voting in Georgia.

No special sauce is required for the North Dakota/Montana prediction. If Obama has a 20% chance in Montana and a 40% chance in North Dakota, there's less than a 50% chance that McCain would take both (of course, that's assuming they're independent random events, which they aren't, but it's still a reasonable estimate, IMO).

For the Senate, I'm going for 57+Sanders+Lieberman. For the house I'm gonna say 257-178, which is 21? pickups.

The guess I'll throw out for popular vote is Obama 52.4-45.5 McCain.

Conduct your own interview of Sarah Palin!


Hold on (0.00 / 0)
That should be 58+Sanders+Lieberman. GA is pickup #9.

Conduct your own interview of Sarah Palin!

[ Parent ]
here is my optimistic prediction from Kos (0.00 / 0)
because what's the fun of not routing for a blowout

59 Democratic Senate seats
39 Republican Senate seats
266 Democratic House seats
169 Republican House seats
382 Obama Electoral Votes (Kerry + IA, NM, NV, FL, OH, VA, CO, GA, MO, NC, MT). Squeaker losses in IN, AZ and ND.
155 McCain Electoral Votes
53.6 Obama Popular Vote Percentage
44.3 McCain Popular Vote Percentage


Cell phone only: state-by-state variance? (0.00 / 0)
Even though Obama gets a bonus 4 percent nationally if cell-phone-only households are polled, he doesn't necessarily get that same 4 percent bonus in every state.  Some states may have significantly more cell-phone-only households than others.  I can see fewer of these households in hilly or mountainous regions, for instance, which means that "conventional" land-line-only phone polling might be more accurate in hilly states (like W. Va.).  I also could see more cell-phone-only households in more affluent states, in which Obama may already be ahead.  So including cell phone users may have more of an impact on the national popular vote by exaggerating the blowout where Obama is already ahead, but not get him too many extra electoral votes.
Just a theory. I'd love to see some data on this.

353 Electoral Votes (0.00 / 0)
The Kerry states plus IA, NM, FL, OH, NC, VA, CO, NV

John McCain <3 lobbyists

Blowout! (0.00 / 0)
    * 58 Democratic Senate seats
   * 40 Republican Senate seats
   * 267 Democratic House seats
   * 168 Republican House seats
   * 399 Obama Electoral Votes
   * 139 McCain Electoral Votes
   * 53.1% Obama Popular Vote Percentage
   * 46.2% McCain Popular Vote Percentage

Obama holds Kerry states and adds:  NC, VA, GA, FL, MO, IN, OH, IA, NM, CO, NV, ND, and NE-2.

Props to the person who said Texas will be close.  I don't see Obama with less than 46%.  I think it'll be closer to 48% because of two words:  Hillary Clinton.  She activated many Latino voters that had been shut out from politics.

In fact, thanks to Dean and Obama for our fifty state strategy.  Thanks to Hillary for challenging Obama and making him become the best candidate we put up in decades.  Thanks to Edwards for shifting the debate leftward--UHC, progressive taxation, and corporate regulation are not taboo anymore, not matter what "libruhl media" contends that we are "center-right" or that balanced budgets are the be-all-end-all.

-10.00E

-5.88S


Larry Kissell for NC-08



"It's time to be patriotic about something other than war."


my prediction (0.00 / 0)
Obama: 296 Electoral Votes
McCain: 247 electoral votes

Basically, I think Obama will win all the Kerry States plus Colorado, New Mexico, Nevada and Virginia.

I do not think we'll pull out victories in Florida, Ohio or Missouri due to the turnout of the youth vote. So far in early voting, the turnout of 18-29 year olds has been dismal.

Keep in mind, I really do not see Obama getting below 296 votes. It's much more likely that he gets above 296 than he gets below.


Iowa? (0.00 / 0)
You practically have to give him Iowa.

"And life is grand And I will say this at the risk of falling from favor With those of you Who have appointed yourselves To expect us To say something darker." -- Camper Van Beethoven

[ Parent ]
America wins! (0.00 / 0)
Al Giordano sees GA as a sleeper state in his latest post, but I gave that to McCain. And I give him MT, AZ and AK. All the other close races I give to Barack, for 375. (Worst case: Barack 274, if McCain wins ALL the undecideds.)

Popular vote margin: 6.5%.

Senate: AK, OR, CO, NM, VA, NC, VT are D pickups. I think Franken's going to lose. And the sleeper here? McConnell, though if Giordano is right, maybe Chambliss could be beaten.

The House: no prediction, as I haven't followed enough to be anywhere near accurate.


He loses Florida, wins Norh Carolina (0.00 / 0)
Loses the rest of the tossup states, wins by 5.3% popular vote.

Most likely variations on this are he loses Ohio or wins Georgia.

Want a progressive global warming novel, not a right wing rant? Go to www.edwardgtalbot.com for a free audio thriller.


Obama by 8.5% (0.00 / 0)
So long as he gets to 270, I don't care how many EV's he gets.  

I hate the electoral college.

The Politics of Bruno S.


375 EVs... (0.00 / 0)
Basically all the tossups except GA, ND, MT, and AZ.  I think Obama takes IN and MO by 1-2 points, NC by 2-3 points, FL and OH by 3-4 points, VA and CO by 6-8 points, PA by 7-9 points.

360 (0.00 / 0)
I just turned in my number at the office pool.  (Pools are not just for the NCAA you know.)  

Obama wins by 6-7%.  

We in California have to hope voters do not desert the polls if it "seems to be over" too soon.  


For the record (0.00 / 0)
Obama gets 364 EVs: the Gore/Kerries, plus Virginia, North Carolina, Florida, Ohio, Missouri, Colorado, and Nevada. Wins popular vote by 5.9%.

(CAVEAT: I had a dream a few nights ago that Obama lost with 261 EVs: he got all of the Gore/Kerries, but lost 3 of Maine's 4 EVs. Let's hope it wasn't a prophecy. (And yes, my subconscious apparently calculated that accurately, including Maine's unconventional system of allocation. And yes, that is rather disturbing.))

Also, Dems +8 in the Senate (AK, OR, NM, CO, MN, NC, VA, NH), +21 net in the house.


Same ballpark (0.00 / 0)
Obama with 375 EVs--he gets IN, MO, NC but not GA, MT or ND, though they are close.

He wins with 52.2% to 46.5% with the cell phone effect in some places mostly countered by a limited Wilder effect in others and more late breakers to McCain or just not voting.

Dems take 8 Senate seats with GA going to a runoff and Dems take 29 House seats for 267-168, a 99 seat margin.

Good job everyone all around.  The R's will be pretty depressed, with some just abandoning politics for new hobbies.  Especially when they realize Obama won't do all those horrible things they thought, and most find their taxes going down.  Increased youth participation in public life will continue, with salutary effects.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


my DKos prediction: (0.00 / 0)
EC 378 Obama 160 McCain.  That's a LOT ballsier than I wanted to be, but I had to call MO IN and ND one way or another, and I called them all for Obama based on his having an incredible ground game and McCain having none at all.  ND is the questionable one because Obama pulled out of that state and only went back in recently, so his organization may not be up to par there.  But if landline-only polls are showing a tie in IN and MO, and factoring in the ground game as well, I gave them to Barack.

House I called as D+30, with a runoff in LA-04.  You have to add Stephanie Tubbs-Jones' open seat to our current total of 236, so I called 267 after election day, and 268 when we win LA-04 (which might be in doubt after a romping this big scares the shit out of Louisiana).

Senate I called 57D 2I 40R and one runoff in Georgia.  I called MN NC OR for us, MS KY for them.

Popular vote I called 52.1 O, 44.7 M, and 2.2 to other parties.

That's pretty optimistic across the board, but I think Obama's ground game delivers and a base that never liked McCain anyway (and now is ashamed of Palin) stays home.

Oh, and to top it off I'm going to trust the Field Poll and say Prop 8 fails in CA.  

Now I'm leaving the house to head to the No on 8 office and volunteer.


Predictions (0.00 / 0)
In the House, the Democrats will net 26 seats. In the 111th, they will have a 262-173 majority.

In the Senate, the Democrats will win 8 seats: VA, CO, NH, NM, AK, NC, OR, and MN. A ninth seat, GA, will go to a run-off election next month, as neither candidate will reach 50% of the vote. The makeup of the Senate will be 57 Democrats, 2 Independents (who caucus with the Dems), 40 Republicans, and 1 TBD.

For the top of the ticket, Obama will win 54% to 45%. He will win Kerry states plus IA, NM, CO, NV, VA, FL, OH, MO, ND, and NC.

Bonus prediction: The networks will call VA shortly after 8pm EST, causing everyone to cut the cake, pop the champagne, and celebrate.


That's 367-171 in the EV race, BTW (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Predictions (0.00 / 0)
EV Obama 353 McCain 185
Popular Vote Obama 7%
Senate Dems +7 seats (not counting Georgia in runoff)
House Dems +32 seats



i think (0.00 / 0)
the popular vote will be pretty big, maybe double digits. People in non-swing states will come out to vote for a historic candidate, but noone is going to come out to 'stop the socialist muslim' if their vote doesn't count for much. This could happen even if the electoral vote is closer like 340 or so.
I'm bullish on the house, i think 35 at least, but i think senate we will come up short, 58 probably unless there is a tidal wave - most likely martin or noriega on a bonkers black turnout.  

Strong finish (0.00 / 0)
The polls tell us alot about the hypothetical votes of the people who answer their phones.  That gets us most of the way there, but:

+1 for cell phones
+1 for voter enthusiasm (esp African-Americans)
+1 for ground game (in key states only)

So my spreadsheet (ok, I admit it, I'm a geek) has a 9-point margin:

Obama  53.5
McCain 44.5
Others 2.0

Obama EV  = 380
McCain EV = 158

We get NC, just barely IN (49.4 to 49.3), and yes, NE-2.  The shocker is barely getting Georgia (have you seen those early voting numbers?).

We come close enough in MT, ND, even AZ and AK, to reinforce the whole idea of a 50-state strategy.

In the Senate, we lose (another) heart-breaker in MN, and just miss GA without a runoff (though Martin leads).  56+2I total, pending the runoff.

In the House, it's the opposite of '06 -- we get most of the squeakers this time: FL-21 and 25, MD-01, even NE-02 and ID-01! And yes, CA-04, CO-04, and MN-06.  

But sorry, no OH-02, or CA-46, or VA-05.  Some of these are multi-cycle races, like NC-08, NY-25, or NJ-07 were in '06.

In the end, we just miss the 100-vote margin: gain 35, lose 4, wind up at 267 pending the LA-04 runoff.

We won't get everything, and it's just the start of the real work of turning things around once we're in office.  But it's gonna be a very good night.


367 EVs for Obama (0.00 / 0)
That's giving Obama MO, SD, NC, but IN, GA, MT, & AZ to McCain.  For popular vote, I will go with a 7.5% spread of Obama 53% to McCain's 45.5%.  

Saxby Chambliss, worse than disgraceful; he's reprehensible.  

Go big or go home (0.00 / 0)
I gotta predict a wave election.

I'm saying Obama 378 EVs -- Chris's 338, plus MO, IN, NC and MT, but not ND, GA or AZ. Popular vote, 7 percent.

Senate: Democrats +10 (incl. GA in a runoff and KY, but  not MS-special)
House: Democrats +29
Governors: Democrats +1

I'm posting it here so my friends and family can come back later and either laugh at me or marvel at my prognosticating prowess.


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