Disagree on WFP (0.00 / 0)

I disagree on voting Working Famlies Party. Rather than a progressive alternative to the Democratic Party, they endorse Republicans in the same manner as the LCV or various unions. As long as a Republican isn't quite so crazy, they endorse them over Democrats who are better.

They are not a progressive alternative. They are more like a non-partisan advocacy group, in that they endorse both Democrats and Republicans, but set a lower bar for Republicans.

And they cost us the NY-26th this year. Woo-hoo!

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by: Chris Bowers @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 06:44:46 AM CST

Chris, like you, the Working Families Party is about Better Democrats. (0.00 / 0)

Chirs, Even though i think your are teh awesome. As a New Yorker, I have to strongly disagree.

When the WFP enorsed Republican State Senator Nick Spano it was to make sure that a two dollar minimum wage increase got done, and it passed.  And it literally made life better for millions New Yorkers - the New Yorkers who need it most.  That is getting things done, and making lives better.

In the '06, when Spano was against the Fair Share Healthcare Bill, the Working Families Party took him out.

Chris, We have not had a dem controlled state senate in overforty years.  New York, a leading liberal light, no progressive state sentate - 4 decades - before you were born.

And that is going to change tonight, and if you talk to anybody in New York State politics, from the New York blogto the New York times, they will tell you that the Dems will take back Albany because the Working Families Party.  And it is because the WFP, pound-for-pound has the best straight up liberal canvass operation in the entire country.

So please, pretty please, never call an organization that has been on the front lines defending Acorn (which had an instrumental role in the creation of the WFP, and whose lead organizer Bertha Lewis is a chair of the WFP) that works closely with all the unions here in New York, including the SEIU, and that just got straight out gets shit done. ---- Don't call this wonderful set of progressive people a "non-partisan advocacy group" - it is just not true.  

And in the 26th, any confusion is caused by court shenanigans and is not the fault of Working Families, and I can guarantee that WFP will turn that district blue if not tonight, then in the very near future.

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by: franz hartl @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 08:12:28 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Endorsing Republicans is not about Better Democrats (4.00 / 1)

Don't call this wonderful set of progressive people a "non-partisan advocacy group" - it is just not true.

You just defended endorsing both Republicans and Democrats, by saying it got stuff done, and then demanded that I stopped calling the WFP a non-partisan group? Really?

If you endorse members of both parties, you are doing the same thing as LCV and other non-partisan groups. They say they do it to get stuff done, too. You are using the same tactics as LCV and other unions. And you endorse Republicans who suck.

Don't tell me that endorsing Republicans is about better Democrats. That's just bullshit. If you want better Democrats, then get involved in primaries, and stop endorsing Republicans. Don't tell me that endorsing Republicans is somehow about better Democras. That's just bullshit.

And before you play the New Yorker card on me again, I lived in New York for 23 years, and still spend two weeks up there every year. I'm not an outsider on this one.

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by: Chris Bowers @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 08:33:55 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Wait till you guys find out (0.00 / 0)

that Bertha Lewis is Co-Chair of WFP and that ACORN and WFP are barely distinguishable in NY.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

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by: Will @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 09:03:56 AM CST

[ Parent ]

And? You support rethuglican smearing of ACORN? (0.00 / 0)

Or what's your point? As long as you don't repeat the right wing talking point that ACORN is a criminal organisation, this fact is as suspicious as if Lewis was also the director of an off broadway theatre company. Really, what do you want to imply?

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

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by: Gray @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 09:14:55 AM CST

[ Parent ]

We are involved in Dem primaries! (0.00 / 0)

1 Working Families Party is the very definition of Partisan by virtue of being its own political party.

Working Families Party does get involved in democratic primaries.  It was the Working Families party who took out Marty Connor just a few weeks, the longest service state senator, and replaced him with Daniel Squadron a 28 year old progressive.  And WFP did it by retail door-to-door politics.

As you know, losing a primary in your party is a very rare occurrence in New York.  Now, not so much, and the reason is the WFP.

Read the times article from last week.  

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10...

Read the WFP press release about Daniel Squadron.

http://www.workingfamiliespart...

In Fusion politics, sometimes you have to make tough decisions and endorse the other side to get things done like like a two dollar raise in the minimum wage - that makes life better for millions of people.  

If you disagree with that, and you don't want to support the party that provides the field operation for all the close state races, and was vital in doing what you want and challenging dem in primaries with better dems, And lead the charge against bloomberg, then we disagree.

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by: franz hartl @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 10:07:49 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Also (0.00 / 0)

Please, tell me again, how the WFP "took out" Spano, when you didn't even endorse in the campaign.

You use exactly the same tactics as most non-partisan advocacy groups. Katha Pollitt summarizes:

I'm singling out NARAL here, but the same argument applies to other progressive single-issue groups that support Republican incumbents. The theory is you need supporters in both parties, and if you're not loyal to incumbents who support your cause, you lose your leverage. That rationale explains why in 1998 the gay rights organization Human Rights Campaign supported the sleazy anti-choice conservative Republican Sen. Alfonse D'Amato against his Democratic opponent, Chuck Schumer. In 2004, in return for his role in raising the minimum wage in New York state, the Working Families Party supported Nick Spano, a longtime Republican state senator from Westchester, against his Democratic challenger, Andrea Stewart-Cousins, a progressive black woman. She lost by 18 votes. Thanks, WFP, for shoring up the GOP majority in the New York state Senate.

It's the same tactics. I'll pass on the WFP line.

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by: Chris Bowers @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 08:42:02 AM CST

[ Parent ]

He Lost the WFP Ballot Line - He Lost the Election (0.00 / 0)

QED

I'll see your Making Light Blog Reference:

http://nielsenhayden.com/makin...

and Raise you The Nation Magazine:

http://www.thenation.com/blogs...

Not the same tactics.  Before you say that again, why don't you come to Brooklyn and check out the operation, look at our field and then say that.

I still think you are teh awesome and thanks for engaging in this discussion, i think the fusion politics conversation is an important debate to hve

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by: franz hartl @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 10:13:32 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Seriously, Come visit Working Families In Brooklyn (0.00 / 0)

Working Families loves what you do, and the office here is about two blocks away from Junior's and the deliciousness.

Come up to visit anytime you want, WFP would love to have you.

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by: franz hartl @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 12:29:24 PM CST

[ Parent ]

WOW! Those GOTV volunteers sure come in all sizes! (0.00 / 0)

Cute! And impressive. Yes, even, say, eight year olds may make a difference. Yes, they can!
:-)

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

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by: Gray @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 06:49:54 AM CST

Voted in Oxford, MI (0.00 / 0)

monster turnout.  Got in line at 6:30am, polls opened at 7am, didn't vote till 7:20am.  Hundreds of people in line behind me.

Happy voting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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by: gaspare @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 06:55:24 AM CST

One short wait for Americans, but a giant line for Europeans! (4.00 / 1)

Still can't understand why the elections aren't better organized in the US. Here in Germany, I NEVER had to wait more than, say, ten minutes before voting. And I live in a working class, multi cultural neighborhood. No golden pencils to make our crosses for us here, either.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

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by: Gray @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 07:11:59 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I hear you... (4.00 / 1)

Still can't understand why the elections aren't better organized in the US.

It's because one party has a vested interest in making voting as difficult as possible.  Indiana, for instance, will close its polls at 6 tonight.  SIX!  If I'm dropping my kids off at daycare before work, working, then picking them up, it's already 5:45.  

If we want to make it work, we can make it work.  I'm hoping for election change I can believe in.

War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength; McCain/Palin 2008

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by: cheesehead @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 07:42:18 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Yeah, you can't escape this feeling... (4.00 / 1)

that some people actually don't want everybody to vote, and deliberately make it hard to do so.
Let's hope this will change until the next elections, too!

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

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by: Gray @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 07:48:34 AM CST

[ Parent ]

vote anti-incumbent (0.00 / 0)

no reason to trust the current crop of idiots who got us the the train wrecked economy we have today. unless they voted twice against the bailout - those are the only deserving reps this cycle.  

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

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by: Will @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 09:07:52 AM CST

"Bring a child to watch you vote." (0.00 / 0)

That's the smartest thing I've heard during this entire election.

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra

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by: LandStander @ Tue Nov 04, 2008 at 11:19:30 AM CST