Dukakis Was As Strong A Candidate As Obama

by: Chris Bowers

Mon Nov 10, 2008 at 00:52


Barack Obama was no better a candidate than Michael Dukakis.

That sentence sounds absurd, right? Obama defeated Hillary Clinton in the primaries, and went on to win the highest Democratic vote percentage since 1964. Dukakis, by contrast, barely emerged from a primary field of--at least when their 1988 political statures are compared to Clinton's in 2008--relative minnows, and then went on to squander an enormous polling advantage in the general election. Surely, Obama and Dukakis are not comparable in terms of their ability as campaigners.

However, as I discuss in the extended entry, virtually all of Obama's, and really all of the Democratic Party's, improvement on Dukakis's performance over the past twenty years is not the result of superior candidates, superior campaigning, or even really a superior political environment. Instead, it is primarily the result of three major cultural shifts that have taken place over the past twenty years: the rise of the network neutral Internet, the increasing number of non-Christians in America, and ethnic / "racial" shifts toward a less white America. Without these trends, Obama would have suffered the same electoral fate as Dukakis, and Democrats would be experiencing the 1994 midterms the same way that Bill Murray experienced Groundhog Day. While many people did excellent work this year, in order to secure long-term victory, we need to maintain and foster these trends rather than believing our recent successes have been the work of a small group of wunderkinds.

More in the extended entry.

Chris Bowers :: Dukakis Was As Strong A Candidate As Obama
Consider three major cultural trends in America that have largely taken place over the past twenty years:

  1. Internet Rising: Over the past twenty years, the rise of the network neutral Internet has been, by a long way, the biggest change to the national media landscape. Fully 55% Americans are not just online, but have high-speed connections, and the Internet is now the #2 source of news in the country, trailing only television. Twenty years ago, virtually no one was online, and the world wide web wasn't even created.

  2. The Rise of Non-Christian America. The number of self-identified non-Christians has slightly more than doubled since 1990 and now totals 21.6% of the population.

  3. The Rise of a Non-White America: While the Census does not measure ethnic / racial statistics the same way every ten years, thus making long-term trends somewhat difficult to pin down, twenty years ago non-whites formed 15% of the electorate, much lower than the 26% in the 2008 election. That is an increase of about one-half percent every year for the past twenty years.

Now ask yourself a question: is there any possible way that Barack Obama wins this election without these three social cultural trends? It doesn't take much research to show the answer is clearly no. In fact, without these trends, given the same demographic playing field Dukakis faced twenty years ago, Obama would have lost by a margin very similar to McCain and Dukakis. To show this, I took the results of the 2008 exit poll crosstabs for "Religion Among Whites," and recalibrated each of the demographics in that crosstab to account for an electorate that was only 11% non-Christian (as studies at the time suggested), and only 15% non-white (as per the 1988 exit poll). You can view the results here:

2008 Election results with 1988 electorate percentages

According to this estimation, McCain would have won the election by about 5.9% if the religious and ethnic demographics were the same percentages of the overall electorate as they were twenty years ago. Given that Dukakis lost by 7.7%, this strongly suggests that Obama did not make up much ground among white Christians compared to Dukakis. Instead, the vast majority of Obama's improvement on the Democratic performance from 1988--a campaign performance that has been roundly mocked over the last two decades--came from non-whites and / or non-Christians replacing white Christians within the electorate. While this is only an estimation, it is doubtful that the margin for error in this estimation would entirely erase McCain's projected 5.9% advantage, much less Obama's actual 6.5% advantage.

The Democratic improvement comes not just demographic shifts, but also from media related shifts. Specifically, the rise of the Internet has helped create a far more activist Democratic grassroots base that now surpasses the conservative grassroots activist base:. Check out these late October numbers from Pew on the relationship between campaign activism and Internet social media participation:


Now, these numbers are influenced not just by strong progressive infrastructure online, but also by effective organizing on the part of the Obama campaign, and conservative depression in a bad political environment for Republicans. Still, it should go without saying that the rapid increase of progressive grassroots activism of late would simply not have been as possible, or at least as easy, without the development of progressive social media on the Internet. The Obama campaign did not invent progressive online organizing, but rather did an excellent job of taking advantage of well-established progressive organizing within online social media. Without the decade of work that came beforehand, the Obama campaign would have been able to cull far fewer resources from the Internet. Further, had conservatives been at an equal level of online organizing entering the 2008 campaign, McCain would have moved closer to overall resource parity with Obama.

These three broad social trends--the network neutral Internet, the increasing number of non-Christians in America, and the increasing number of non-whites in America (mainly Latinos)--were more responsible for the 2008 Democratic victories than any other factor. This includes the relative strengths of the two major candidates, the performance and strategic decisions of the campaigns, and even the pro-Democratic political environment caused by widespread disaffection with Republican governance. These demographic and media trends are the main reason non-southern Democratic nominees have once again become competitive in Presidential elections. Without them, all of our nominees who are not "good ol' boys" would end up suffering the same fate as Dukakis.

This article is not meant to denigrate the tremendous efforts of the millions of people who worked on behalf of the Obama campaign, or to argue that the result of the election was a demographic foregone conclusion. Rather, it is to argue that broad social and cultural trends are typically at the foundation of any election. Dukakis had a lot of smart people working for him, but the demographic and media landscapre of the country was very different. As such, we shouldn't get either too down on our past defeats, such as 1988, or too high on our current victories, such as 2008. We win or lose because of our position relative to these long-term trends, as much as any other reason.

When looking to build long-term progressive change, it is absolutely essential to identify and capitalize on these trends. No matter how smart and strategic we were, no matter how hard we worked, and no matter how charismatic our candidates were, Democrats would not be where they are today without 3-1 support among non-whites and non-Christians, or without the vast progressive advantage on the network neutral Internet. Given that all three of these social trends continue apace, we need to continue our advantages in these areas. In fact, now that Democrats are the governing party in D.C., we need to actually go one step further and pass legislation that will itself help continue these trends. While there isn't much we can, or should, do on the religion front (not the sort of business the government should be involved with), this does mean comprehensive, progressive immigration and media reform. This is why I have regularly identified these two areas of legislation as "positive feedback loops," in that they are not policies in need of progressive reform, but that progressive reform in those areas would actually make the country more progressive. This is exactly the sort of legislation that I intend to focus on during the upcoming Democratic trifecta, because it is the sort of positive change that will itself cause more positive change in the future.


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Obama (0.00 / 0)
never gets nominated without those demographic changes.  Dukakis should still be mocked for that campaign.

Should he? (0.00 / 0)
I was only 14 at the time, so I don't remember it that well. Also, I haven't studied it closely. However, I'm not convinced that the narratives about Dukakis simply not attacking hard enough really work. Reagan had an approval in the high 50's most of the year, and the south had already shifted to Republicans in presidential elections by that point. I wonder if the path to victory for Dukakis really was as easy as people seem to think it was. Maybe it was an uphill campaign from the start, and things like Willie Horton are over-emphasized for their impact.

[ Parent ]
check that (0.00 / 0)
Reagan's approval wasn't in the high 50's, but it was +13-+18 from July through October in 1988. Link. That still strikes me as an uphill battle for Dukakis.

[ Parent ]
ghwb (4.00 / 1)
Iran Contra had taken the shine off Ronnie even if he was still personally popular. But mostly GHWB was never a great candidate as he proved definitively in 1992, about a year after having approval numbers near 90. I liked Dukakis quite a bit but I think he never came across as "Presidential" the way Obama has. Plus he was really short, don't overlook that silliness.

[ Parent ]
I bet you a hypothetical $500 (4.00 / 1)
That Dukakis would have won in 2008, as long as he found a way to become the nominee.

[ Parent ]
Yup (4.00 / 1)
Dukakis actively courted the Hispanic community, using "Coming to America" (from the remake of The Jazz Singer: as his theme song).  The campaign for the nomination was for at least one big monent a square off of non-white goups in the south with Dukakis working and winning Hispanics (Texas, Florida) and Jesse Jackson sweeping the black vote while everybody else was left in the dust.

Bush I may have been a lousy candidate but he was presented as a continuation of Reagan,  I remember one political cartoon labelling hims as "more of the same but less."

This wasn't the Recession Ronnie of 1982 but Teflon Ron who just kept rolling despite a continual series of gaffes and scandals.  It was darned frustrating, too.  And despite this, Dukakis took the Democrats off the canvas from the 1984 lows and back to respectability with over 100 electoral votes.

A state by state look at the electorate and its composition might make the point.  Look at Virginia.  Northern Virginia in 1988 was the Republican key to the state.  By 2008 it has become the Democratic core of the state. In this case, a big portion of the change is the growth of the Asian community.  Add 10% + of Asian, black and Hispanic and Republicans get a chance to play with just 2/3 or less of the electorate.  No way they can win that even with Reagan like performances of 60%.  California used to be a swing state.  No more due to Pete Wilson and his nativist crusade.  


[ Parent ]
Comparing Apples (4.00 / 1)
to Pomegranates.

Yes most competent Democrats could have won this year. But, we didn't elect just a Democrat, we elected the first lack Democrat for President ad that required the Sidney Poitier / Jackie Wilson of politics and more than half a billion dollars.


[ Parent ]
In Montana in 2008 (4.00 / 1)
Obama garnerd 47.2% of the vote to narrowly lose to McCain's 49.7%.

Obama's 47.2% was the largest percentage of votes in Montana for a democratic presidential candidate since LBJ's 58% in 1964. But Obama's 2008 percentage just barely improved on Dukakis's 46% of the vote back in 1988. Why Dukakis did so well in Big Sky Country, and Clinton, Gore and Kerry did not I simply do not know.


[ Parent ]
He was tactically weak & emotionally distant (4.00 / 1)
Chris, he was great on paper but not in person.  His appeal today would be very very coastal.  

He also did not 'get' hardball at all.

Dukakis would have been the 4th or 5th best candidate in the 2008 field.


[ Parent ]
he ran on competence and pragmatism (0.00 / 0)
Think Mark Warner, only without the charisma, the regional appeal, the youth and the business success.

[ Parent ]
Another interesting thing to consider (4.00 / 4)
A republican has only won one presidential election in the last 20 years. And that one election (2004) was largely reliant on the power of incumbency.

Also, take a look at the exit polls in Texas. Get the right candidate in 2016 and Texas (and Arizona) will go Democratic.  That will be quite the electoral lock with TX,CA,NY,IL,PA, and probably FL all going Democratic. That'd be 190 electoral votes just from those 6 states.  


What did the Texas exit polls say? .. (0.00 / 0)
that we could have won Texas if Obama was white?

[ Parent ]
No. (4.00 / 3)
That latinos severely underperformed compared to their percentage of the population. They're 35% of the population but they were only 20% (roughly) of voters.

Given the in-migration there and the fact that there are a lot of up-coming first-generation Americans in Texas, it follows that latinos will be the deciding force in Texas in the coming decades.

If for instance, a strong latino candidate is the Democratic nominee in 2016 or 2020, then I would wager Texas will go Democratic. They already went for Obama with 63% of the vote. If it's a latino candidate I can't imagine that number being below 80%. Even without a latino candidate, I think the way latinos are trending Democratic, republicans are going to be in a world of hurt in the coming years in places like AZ, TX, and FL. It's just starting now, but those states will probably end up being like slightly more conservative versions of California, but still Democratic.


[ Parent ]
Obama + (latino) in 2012 = (latino) president in 2016 (0.00 / 0)
     In another post ["Obama + (woman) in 2012 = (woman) president in 2016], I suggested that Biden was getting old, and that Obama should have a different running mate in 2012 - one that could then run and win in 2016.
    My other post focused on appealing to women voters instead of appealing to latino voters. But latinos are the fastest growing minority group in America, through both immigration and higher birth rates.
    I supported Bill Richardson in the primaries. At that time, I assumed that Hillary Clinton would be our nominee for President, and the only question was "who is her best VP?" I liked Richardson for both his strong resume' and for his appeal to latino voters.
    So, would Obama/Richardson be a good ticket in 2012? And if not Richardson, which other latino Democrats should we consider?

Luke 12:48 "to whom much is given, of him shall much be required". Would Jesus want progressive taxation, or regressive taxation?

[ Parent ]
Well Xavier Becerra is one possibility (0.00 / 0)
He'd probably have to win state-wide office first though.  

[ Parent ]
I love Xavier Becerra (0.00 / 0)
I have meet Becerra several times and gave money to his ill-fated run for mayor. I think he would be great in higher office.  He is very very smart (Stanford Law as I recall), but him seems happy in the house.   I keep hoping he runs for Governor one day, but I do not see it happening.  

[ Parent ]
Arizona and the west (0.00 / 0)
Every state that bordered Arizona was in the range of D+13 to D+17 relative to 2004. Arizona itself even improved by 2%. If it had run consistent with other states in the region (i.e., if McCain didn't have a home state effect in Arizona), Obama would have won the state by 2-6%.

On the west in general: I think the realignment in this region - as well-discussed as it has been - has nonetheless been underrated. Clinton had a similar showing in the west in '92 and '96, but he was helped out considerably by Perot in a number of those states. And, despite the lack of 3rd-party help, Obama's wins were really convincing: double digits in NV and NM; and those two plus CO ran ahead of his national popular vote. So the victories in these states weren't just the icing on the cake of a big electoral win: they were the manifestation of a whole region expressing a genuine lean towards the Democrats for the first time since the Truman years.


[ Parent ]
But, there was a Latino candidate for the US senate in Texas (4.00 / 1)
versus immigration hawk John Cornyn.  If that can't get the Latino vote to not underperform, I don't know what would get them to come out in the numbers necessary to win in Texas, short of a Latino Presidential candidate.

The shifting demographics are making Texas a lot closer than it even was eight years ago, but the state Democratic party needs to figure out a way to get higher turnout in the (Rio Grande) Valley counties.  


[ Parent ]
It's still too early. (0.00 / 0)
That's why I said 2016. Or maybe even not till 2020 or 2024. Latinos are 35% of the population in TX, but how many of them are eligible to vote?  

[ Parent ]
And even arleady (4.00 / 1)
Texas was as close as Pennsylvania. It should be a swing state fairly soon, if we govern well, keep organizing and don't screw over Latinos.

[ Parent ]
And in 4 years (4.00 / 4)
One hopes the 25% of Texans who thought Obama was a Muslim will figure things out/ get hit by buses.

[ Parent ]
Arizona will go blue (4.00 / 1)
in 2012 if we have a semi-decent year. It would have gone blue if it wasn't McCain as the Republican and thus the Obama campaign made it a battleground from the start. The states that Obama was within 10 are Arizona, Montana, Missouri, North Dakota, South Dakota, South Carolina and Georgia. Montana, Missouri and Georgia were within 5.

Texas, West Virgina, Tennessee and Mississippi were within 15.  All other states are not realistically going to go blue without a major third party candidate, a regional effect (i.e Ben Chandler would win Kentucky if he somehow became our candidate someday).

In 2012 I think Obama should invest serious money into field in all of those states but especially Texas. It's shifting rapidly demographically and if the Democratic Party can make Texas a blue state (it will be majority minority very soon) then it's hard to see a path for a Republican to be elected to the presidency.

Winning Texas would essentially mean the end of the modern Republican party. Simple as that.

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power


[ Parent ]
What are you trying to say? .. (4.00 / 1)
are you saying Democrats would be fucked if the US had stayed a majorly white country? ... I don't buy that at all ... we had them up through LBJ .. are you saying that from 1968 .. they are permanently gone? .. if I get to the essence .. essentially the Democrats screwed themselves by sticking up for African-Americans .. and other minorities .. maybe they did in the short run .. but not in the long run

This Is A Good Argument, But... (4.00 / 8)
There wasn't wall-to-wall rightwing hate radio in 1988, either.  Or Faux News.  There was the Washington Times, and that was about it.  The whole apparatus that was built to bring down Bill Clinton didn't exist yet, then, either.  The Federalist Society, the Goldbergs, Drudge, Ann Coulter, etc. were barely getting started or none-existent as political forcres.

The demographic arguments are stronger, but it's also important to note that demographic voting patterns do change over time.  I'm glad to see you kick off this discussion, but it's inherently much more complicated than it first appears.

Still, I'm basically sympathetic.  We are prisoners of our inherent, unexamined perspectives, and people in any moment of history inevitably take the flashy surface events to be more significant than the deep underlying currents. They are almost always wrong in doing so.  And yet, without this illusion, they might well do nothing--and paradoxically, that could actually make any sort of progressive change impossible.  One needs both the deep currents and the wind that blows quite visibly through all our lives, altering everything on the surface of things.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


I don;'t think it is unexamined (0.00 / 0)
I don't think it is an issue of unexamined perspectives. I think that being of a certain demographic causes you to have a different sort of regular interaction with our most powerufl ideological institutions. And I think the result is just a flat-out different perspective that is based on examination and experience.

We aren't prisoners of our unexamined perspectives, because there is place outside or perspectives. That's like calling ourselves prisoners or our bodies, or of the Solar System. We are prisoners of our most powerful institutions, because there are indeed places outside of them.

I'm well aware that it is more complicated, but the sort of microtargeted psychographics needed for a more complete electoral demographic analysis are not available for free. I work with what is available.


[ Parent ]
I Wasn't Clear Enough (4.00 / 2)
I only meant that it takes real, sustained effort to see things outside the framework of how we experience the world on a day-to-day basis.  And simply having a more expansive or conceptually sophisticated view of things will not significantly change your way of dealing with the day-to-day world.  (Knowing the history of shoelaces doesn't appreciably change how you tie them in the morning, though you might enjoy the act of tying them more.)

What's more, I'm not sure psychographic data is what's needed here.  I do think that we need to get more people thinking critically about such issues, and out of that more hypothesizing and hypothesis testing can come.  But some things I think may be important may simply be unprovable, as the necessary data simply wasn't collected.

One thing, however, I regularly bring up when Dukakis is mentioned, and that's the enormous difference in how easily Howard Metzenbaum was re-elected to the Senate in Ohio, vs. how badly Dukakis was beaten there.  It vividly shows the tremendous variability possible just at one point in time in one place.  To a certain extent, one really cannot compare campaigns across to large a span of time--at least not in the same way one can compare camapigns happening simultaneously.   Too many variables change too much over 20 years, even if you can capture the biggies, and get some sense out of looking at them.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that none of us are Hari Seldon.  And Hari Seldon didn't foresee the Mule.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Asimov rocks! (0.00 / 0)
     I am glad to see you are a fellow Foundation fan. I wonder: how many others here know Hari Seldon?

Luke 12:48 "to whom much is given, of him shall much be required". Would Jesus want progressive taxation, or regressive taxation?

[ Parent ]
i'm just glad Obama never did anything like this: (4.00 / 1)


'Twas demographics... (4.00 / 1)
..that made The Duke get in that tank. He grew up playing with army men and Obama grew up bodysurfing.  

John McCain

[ Parent ]
War vets (4.00 / 1)
WW II was a situation where US military strength peaked at 16 million about 13% of the population.  In effect, everybody from a certain generation or nearly everybody went off to war.  Every winning candidate from 1948 through 1972 served as an active war time vet (although LBJ's service was extremely limited as a member of Congress he still got his combat medal).

By contrast, actual war vets have consistently lost Presidential elections from 1992 to the present going zero for five in that span. The National Guard during Vietnam was considered a way for the politically connected to duck the danger of Vietnam not military service and that is clearly what W did.

McCain's loss makes it pretty likely that no Vietnam vet will serve as US President.  No Korean War vet served as President.  WW II (Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon, Bush I) and the Civil War (Grant, Hayes, Garfield, McKinley for sure) each had many Presidents.


[ Parent ]
this was ATROCIOUS optics (0.00 / 0)
This is why Chris is flat wrong about Duke, he didn't get the game as is played in modern campaigns.  Optics, emotions, etc.

He was a good guy, though.  With the right coaching and practice, maybe, but Duke as-is in 88 would have been one of the weaker nominees we could have fielded in 08.


[ Parent ]
You can't analyze data like this (4.00 / 2)
If demographics is destiny then how do you explain Obama having a 10 point margin in MN and Franken being tied. How do you explain the whopping 39 point spread in Maine between Obama's victory over McCain and Susan Collins's victory over Tom Allen?

Personal characteristics and campaign skills are important to winning, full stop. You have good data and background in this post but it all gets lost when you just toss out that Obama and Dukakis were equally good candidates. Dukakis lost 4 New England states that Bill Clinton won in 1992. Demographic shifts had very little to do with the different results.

John McCain


Of demographics aren't the only factor (4.00 / 5)
And I said that a few times in the essay.

I'm just arguing that, among many factors, they are the among the most important, if not the most important.

It has been a long time since Democrats lost an election by more than 6%, even though it happened all the time from 1972-1988. The reason is that the country has shifted to the point where we start with a high floor. That is a huge boost.

John Kerry got 41% of the white vote, lost by 2.46%. Dukakis got 40% of the white vote, lost by 7.72%. That Kerry could improve by 5.26% despite only improving 1% among white voters had everything to do with demographics.


[ Parent ]
Also (0.00 / 0)
Obama got 43% of the white vote, up 3% from Dukakis. However, Obama improved 7% on Dukakis's total, from 45.65% to an unoffical 52.6%. Again, demograhpics played a huge role in that.

With the exception of Bill Clinton, we never won the socially conservative white swing voters we will told were the key to elections for the past thirty years. And yet we started winning elections anyway. The reason is because of the demographic shift.


[ Parent ]
I think you are wrong Chris (4.00 / 1)
Take Dukakis's numbers, which are 83% of Democrats, 8% of Republicans, and 43% of independents and apply them to the modern electorate (39-32-29) and he still loses.  Take Obama's numbers (D:89%,R: 9% and I:52%) and apply them to Dukakis's electorate (37-35-26) and he wins.  (Both cases would be closer than reality, of course.)

That is why Dukakis was a lousy campaigner.  He got hammered with independents and did poorly with Democrats.  Party is a much better predictor of voting than religious beliefs.

   

New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.


you're mistaken (4.00 / 3)
if you can't see the difference between obama & dukakis, both personally & with respect to the campaigns they ran,  then, with all due respect, chris, you're blind.

dukakis' response to the willie horton ads was at best ineffectual.  his campaign was unable to effectively counter it in the air war &, when asked about it in i think one of the debates, he answered on a purely intellectual policy level which fed the out of touch theme that the republicans foisted upon him.

obama's campaign wouldn't have stood there & taken the attack & in fact would've turned it around on the attackers in some way.  & while these are not directly similar, view the response that obama, himself, gave to the wright controversy in his more perfect union speech:  it was an intellectual response, yes, but its most powerful moments, its main appeal, was emotional.

so, no.  while i understand that culture has changed over the past 2 decades & while i'm thankful that history, recent history anyways, has a liberal bias, i do not think that dukakis & obama are comparable.  

hell, to quote samual jackson, its not only not the same ball park, its not the same sport.  i mean, come on.  200,000 people in one rally in berlin?  75,000-100,000 in rallies across this country?  how many rallies did dukakis have that drew an excess of 50,000 people?

seriously.
s.


the team and the campaign counts for a lot. so does timing. (0.00 / 0)
I think Dukakis came around at a different time, and ran a more inept campaign, a more timid and poorly planned campaign.

but what do I know? I was 7 years old at the time.

nah, Barack Obama is still distinctly stronger. smarter. more articulate.


You gotta be joking (4.00 / 1)
Chris, this is from your comment above regarding the Dukakis campaign:
I was only 14 at the time, so I don't remember it that well. Also, I haven't studied it closely.

And we're supposed to take you seriously with your thesis that  "Dukakis Was As Strong A Candidate As Obama"? Please.

Well I was an adult at the time, as well as an activist and very involved in politics. Dukakis' leadership and his campaign really was that bad.

A discussion of the changing demographics is one thing. Making a blanket statement comparing these two candidates is something else entirely. It would be much more accurate if you added "on paper" to your post title. As in: "Dukakis Was As Strong A Candidate As Obama...On Paper."


The mistake you make is assuming a static race (0.00 / 0)
Clinton argued that she would have won if the rules were different.

But that's nonsense as if the playing field changed so would obama's strategies.

A better way to say it is that Obama would have run a more rightwing campaign 20 years ago and Dukakis would have only won from the overwhelming fear of another 4 years of Bush.

http://transgendermom.blogspot....


Comparison (0.00 / 0)
I believe there are lots of useful points of comparison between Dukakis's 1988 Campaign, and the Obama one -- but one should also study carefully the differences.

Both Campaigns featured Competence as a primary theme.  The Reagan of 1988 -- and the degree to which this bled over to VP Bush I, was viewed as incompetent.  Iran-Contra, Grenada, the bombing of the Marine Barracks in Lebanon, and disagreements with NATO Europe on responses we now understand as the beginnings of break-up of the E. European regimes -- those were put forward in 1988 as competence matters.  Likewise, the S&L crisis had blown up, and that was a consideration of Domestic Competence.  The problems with the GWBush administration are much worse in many ways when you define them by Competence -- and at least this time around we have decent short hand for calling them out -- witness the power of terms such as Katrina, Heck of a Job, Mission Accomplished in calling forth reactions about Competence, and the lack of such short hand in 1988. Likewise the Republican 1988 campaign had means to counter Dukakis on Competence -- a dirty Boston Harbor illustrated by a boat tour, and of course Willy Horton.  Dukakis's campaign didn't know how to counter.  

With Obama, he really gives no good target for a counter on competence, as he has never held an administrative position that can be targeted.  What he had was the Campaign itself, which became part of the argument for his administrative potential. Both Hillary's and McCain's campaign organizations self destructed in the face of Obama's competent execution.  Whether this repeats during actual governance, we can't know -- but I think it is a useful comparison with the Dukakis use of Competence as a campaign issue.  


GOTV (0.00 / 0)
You still have to get people to vote. Do you think AA turnout would have been as high or as monolothic with Dukakis? I don't think so.

Bush, Bush and Bush (0.00 / 0)
Bush and the Congressional Republicans ruined the Republican brand.  This, and Obama's financial and field superiority, more than anything else, is the difference between the political environment today and Dukakis' time.

This was a "throw the bums out" election and it set the stage for the Democrats.  This was the year for the Democrats, and the momentum has been building for years -- definitely since 2006 but arguably longer.

Even the Republicans were disgusted with the Republican party and it showed in the funding numbers.  

It's shocking that McCain got as many votes as he did, but I really this year, a Democrat was going to be elected, almost regardless of who ran.  There is no doubt that Obama's campaign was the best we've ever seen from this party, but that's not, ultimately, the reason why a Democrat was elected.


Surely the biggest difference between Obama and Dukakis.... (4.00 / 3)
...is that the economy tanked in a very frightening way just weeks before the election.  Besides quickly focusing voters' attention on the bottom line, this also highlighted Palin's lack of readiness for the job, and McCain's own erratic behavior around the bailout package seems to have hurt him.

Up until then, it was by no means clear that Obama was going to win at all.  Certainly the shine was coming off Palin among the non-GOP base, would it have been much of a factor without the financial collapse?  I don't remember Dan Quayle hurting GHWB in 1988.

A lot of people were concerned that Obama was running a Dukakis-like campaign and was fated to suffer the same fate.  Where we wrong?  I don't think so. But I'm grateful that we'll never know.


Sout grapes? (0.00 / 0)
Check your facts and throw out your sour grapes. the only bump McCain got was from his convention which obama got as well for 10 days. if you need some brains check out nates post and model on convention bonuses which was happening exactly the way it traditionally does (McCains lead droped from 5 to 1 before lehman collapsed and his bonus only lasted around 10 days which is normal and what obama got).

[ Parent ]
This post should be entitled "how to make people stop taking you seriously" (4.00 / 2)
Ok, that was a little harsh.  The demographic stuff is interesting.

But anyone who lived through that Dukakis campaign knows it is the height of absurdity to claim that he was as good a candidate as Obama.  Even if the demographics prove that the results would have been the same, it does not follow that the candidates are equal.

I liked Dukakis and voted for him.  But he was not in the same league as Obama.


Even if you prove it, you are wrong (0.00 / 0)
"Even if the demographics prove that the results would have been the same"

So, even if I prove it, I'm wrong?

Funny that you accuse someone else of being "the height of absurdity" when making such a sentence.  


[ Parent ]
hmm (0.00 / 0)
There was a point where dukasis lead in the polls but he tanked because of the mistakes he made and his polls dropped dead. Running a superior campaign and improving by double digits on youth, Hispanic, inpependants, 1/5 of conservitives and even whites (single digits) doesn't just happen for any shmuck like dukakis. you are an idiot.

[ Parent ]
Absurd? (0.00 / 0)
I'm going with the second sentence in your post.

Chris, this is one of your worst efforts (0.00 / 0)
Sorry mate, but you're just wrong.

I do think this post understates the importance of candidates... (0.00 / 0)
...for instance, nobody but McCain would have had any sort of chance in this election for the Repubs.  With any other candidate, they probably would have lost by double digits, with Obama getting over 400 EVs.  Although the arguments about demographics are certainly important.

I will say that when reading the big multi-part Newsweek article on the whole election cycle, the thin line between being a "good" or "bad" candidate became very apparent.  We all know about Obama's ability to stay cool, not get rattled, etc., while Hillary ended up looking bad for not thinking far ahead enough, trying to coast too much on being "inevitable" without properly organizing on the ground, etc.  

But one look at the Newsweek passages about Obama's struggles to get anywhere in the polls until just before Iowa makes it obvious how the stories would have been written if it had gone the other way: Obama didn't have "the fire," he wasn't hungry enough, he was so young that he knew this wouldn't be his only chance and therefore played it too safe.  But Hillary, she had the fire, she was hungry, she knew this was her one chance, etc.  The stories almost write themselves.

Not to mention how close-run a thing it all was: if Obama hadn't won Iowa, which came as a shock to most people when it happened, what chance would he have had?  And then came NH just 5 days later, where Hillary pulled off her own shock...and if THAT hadn't happened, the primary would have been effectively over within a week!


This would also suggest... (0.00 / 0)
That Kerry was a particular weak candidate, or that Bush was a particularly strong candidate because the demographics haven't shifted THAT much since 2004.

I think, more likely, Obama reversed a Democratic slide that had been occurring for years among virtually every demographic.  So while we could say that Obama did just as well as Dukakis based on demographic data, it's also quite possible that a "Dukakis" candidate would've just continued the demographic slide that the Democrats were experiencing.


Yes. (0.00 / 1)
Exactly, so in 4 years the demographics has changed so much!! (2% more AA, same Hispanic number and youth number and same turnout as 04). NOT. Obama WON larger margin of all those demographics, including by double digits in suburbs and won bigger EV/PV than any other dems in past 40 years. if you think any half competent Democrat could win this you are a complete idiot or just pretending to be because of sour grapes (Mike got hired and you got left out? too bad).

Your unimportant reputation will be ruined because of this post.


[ Parent ]
WHERE are these shifts? (0.00 / 0)
It doesn't make much difference if Los Angeles becomes 100% nonwhite and nonChristian: it doesn't put any more electoral votes in Democrats' pockets.  

It may well be that these demographic trends were decisive in the battleground states, but that isn't apparent from this analysis.

It is a futile enterprise to separate any of the many factors responsible for Obama's victory (the economy, unpopularity of Bush, McCain's inept campaign) and elevate it to a higher status than any other factor.  But, as to these factors:

Religion: Obama was eight points higher than Kerry in appealing to once a week church goers:

http://www.latimes.com/feature...

Other Demographics:  Obama also outperformed Kerry by 4 points among white men, and in virtually any other demographic you could name:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com...


That's what I came here to say. (4.00 / 1)
The distribution of these voters matters a lot.  The "Blue Archipelago" of passionately and permanently Democratic cities, all hating Ohio, doesn't necessarily win us elections.

To do a down-and-dirty regionalization of your thesis:

Barack actually won this election about three times, and one of the overlooked ones was in the Southwest.  The tilt of the Latino vote to us after the immigration play by the GOP cost them the presidency.  If you award Barack only the Kerry states, plus Nevada, New Mexico, and Colorado, he wins.  And if you look at the numbers, those three states came in much stronger for Barack than did Ohio or Virginia, the other two most likely paths to victory.  McCain could have won both Ohio and Virginia, and fought Obama into a much worse position with the white vote nationally, and yet Barack still would have carried those three because 1) he won them all by at least 54-45, so he had room to spare, and 2) the composition of those three electorates is less white than other key states.

Then he won Virginia on the combination of strength with the black vote, and the white middle class in NoVa.

Then he won Ohio on the basis of strength with the white working class, I'd have to guess.  That was the "win" that was most in doubt in the final month of the election.  (Hence the PA talk).

And then there's Florida, but I have no idea what was going on down there exactly.

I'd conjecture though that two of Barack's "wins" came from white voters, one with non-religious upscale whites in Virginia, and one with religious downscale whites in Ohio.  (Check for improvement vs Kerry in the exit polls, I guess.)  The most important of his wins, because it was and will be the most durable, is the win among Latino voters in the Southwest.  Even a worse-run campaign or a stumbling candidate would probably have won all three of those states and the presidency.

Oh, and Iowa was as strong for Obama as Colorado was, and it is an all-white, all-Christian electorate.  In fact, the bloc of Iowa Wisconsin and Minnesota is pretty darn white and Christian, and if you award Obama Kerry+Southwest, and then take away either Wisconsin or Minnesota, McCain is president.  These two states have been trending away from Democrats, and Kerry almost lost Wisconsin.  For the time being they're still central to Democratic victory though, and they're again, pretty white and pretty Christian.  Winning the presidency as a Democrat requires winning that electorate.

In conclusion: where these non-white, non-Christian voters are matters, and the white, Christian voters, by virtue of where they are (WI MN OH) also matter.  The non-white non-Christian voters are not spread out in the optimally useful way, and so we can still lose national elections even if we carry the archipelago in a landslide.  On the other hand, it's now considerably more difficult to do that, if you can get the Latino electorate to stay as Democratic as it was this year.  Add the southwest to the standard Gore/Kerry Democrats, and the Democratic bloc starts out ahead, rather than behind, in every election.


[ Parent ]
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