While his reaffirmation of (4.00 / 2)

the closure Gitmo is welcome, using the same phrasing Bush has used repeatedly - "America does not torture" - is somewhat chilling.

There need to be prosecutions of those responsible (all the way up and down the line) before the US can start to clean up that particular stain on our nation.

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by: Ugluks Flea @ Mon Nov 17, 2008 at 16:47:25 PM UTC

The Pentagon and torture (0.00 / 0)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the dispute on this is about the CIA being exempt from the torture restrictions that already apply to the military, so whatever fights happen over that will be with the CIA as opposed to the military.

As for Iraq, some of the work has already been done with the now-agreed-upon SOFA.  Some of the major planks in it--like coalition forces withdrawing from Iraqi cities and towns by the summer of '09--are probably as fast, or faster, than anything Obama could realistically have pushed for.  So the landscape there has already largely shifted toward what Obama campaigned on, if not even farther--any lingering questions about "residual forces" will have to be resolved by the end of 2011, which is now the agreed deadline for the removal of ALL American troops.

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by: Haggai @ Mon Nov 17, 2008 at 16:56:01 PM UTC

Hope, but verify (4.00 / 3)

I too noticed the phrasing to which Ugluks draws attention. The good words are a start, but having John Brennan on the team is a concern, and I just don't see how we regain our "moral standing" if nobody is ever held accountable. And if that includes Democrats, so be it.

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  

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by: lambert @ Mon Nov 17, 2008 at 18:30:55 PM UTC

Is closing Gitmo enough? (4.00 / 1)

Seems to me that we also have to hold some of the folks that redefined torture and encouraged its use by US forces (from whatever branch of the military, or spy services).

Without any accountablity for their having destroyed the reputation of the US in the eyes of the world, Obama's pledge is simply political posturing.

If you close Gitmo, where do you put all the detainees? Send them home?  Send them to some secret prison camps in Eastern Europe?  

We need trials. Not just of the detainees - but of those that allowed them to be incarcerated and tortured, too.  How long to you think John Yoo would last in a supermax?


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

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by: SpitBall @ Mon Nov 17, 2008 at 20:51:03 PM UTC

what makes Obama very dangerous (0.00 / 0)

is that he's so damned smart that he can sell almost anything. You have to parse his words with extreme care to understand just what he is saying.

Obama said he would close Guantanamo. But he did not say he wouldn't just move the prisoners to a secret gulag elsewhere.

And as far as saying flatly, "America does not torture"-- that's great, but what do you mean by "torture"? If you just call something "enhanced interrogation", does that mean it's not torture?

There has to be enormous pressure from the national security establishment to keep this huge network of secret prisons and torture going, and he is no doubt keenly aware that he must satisfy their demands if he is to remain president.

At this point, I just don't see any reason to trust in Obama's words, given his actions on the FISA bill and the bailout. If and when he shuts down the international network of secret American gulags, gives all prisoners a fair trial in federal court, and prosecutes those responsible, I will believe he's serious. Until then, it's just talk.

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by: limpidglass @ Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 00:18:17 AM UTC