When The Political Is Personal

by: Natasha Chart

Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 12:16


Quoted with permission from an email discussion on Obama's political style, as based on David Sirota's post on the ghettoization of progressives in the appointment process, Pastor Dan of Street Prophets said the following, opened with a quote from a previous post of his:

I think this might be the right moment to introduce a useful distinction between political movements and communities:

The former is always goal- and often status-oriented; movements are driven toward particular ends, usually by large personalities, if not big egos. They require a great deal of coordination which almost inevitably turns into a desire for lockstep-action.

Communities, on the other hand, are focused on persons and the relationships they manifest. Movements succeed when they accomplish their objectives, but communities succeed when they nurture the members they have - and when they expand their circle. Movements are short- (or at least limited-) term and transactional, communities play the long game and are transformative.

Obama's genius has been to figure out a way to create community - and to make it trump the ideological conservative movement. (Also, to be fair, he was able to figure out a way to convert the communities he built into a partisan movement that launched him to the White House.)

A certain part of what we've been struggling with ..., I believe, is that many of us are movement types. But Obama's not - when push comes to shove, he's a community guy. This is why he chooses some baffling moves, such as not horsewhipping Joe Lieberman or populating his cabinet with centrists, rather than progressives. He's playing a game of incremental change, one that requires a steady expansion of coalitions. Not to beat a dead horse too badly, it's also why Obama has always been strong among religious voters. Anybody who's spent time in a religious community knows that the art of life in a group like that is to do what you can with the people you have, even when they piss you off.

Anyway, take it for what it's worth. I name it because this is what ... progressives at large are going to be banging their heads on the wall over until they get it figured out. Obama's shifting the political paradigm in ways that we're not going to fully understand until years later.

I have admired Pastor Dan's writing and community-building efforts within the blogosphere for years and it pains me to disagree with him. But except for his saying that we probably won't know the full impact of the coming administration for years, that's just good sense, disagree I must.

Natasha Chart :: When The Political Is Personal
Denominational Change

If we're going to be talking about church models as a tool of understanding, I don't know that one congregation is the appropriate scale. The Democratic Party is at the very least a full denomination.

Now perhaps the Democrats in the Senate, or in Congress as a whole, feel that they're more a congregation unto itself. They do seem to feel more affinity with each other than with outsiders. They do seem to have those qualities that approach tribal or familial sentiment, where they may scream at each other in private so loud that it wakes the neighbors and carry weird grudges for years, but no one else has permission to say a word against one of them in the other's hearing.

I don't understand how this is different from the Beltway/Village mentality that the blogosphere has been complaining about, lo, these several years.

So-and-so may be a creep, but they're our creep. ... Every prediction she's made has been wrong for decades, but look, she's been around for decades and so she will never be without a job. ... I like that program, but I can't stand the sponsor, there's no way it gets funding. ... I can't support this or he'll oppose every other move I make for years. ... Say what you will about her, she stood with me on that one bill back in '88, and I still owe her.

The problem with that sort of community is that it's hard to have a proper conversation with it from the outside, which makes it a bad operating model for a government responsible for the interests of an entire nation. It's dysfunctional in a way that resists transparent interaction and public negotiation.

It's surely a better form of government than monarchy. We've been watching The Tudors around here, a helpful reminder that back then, politics was all personal. Plus, if you got a crazy king, you might be stuck with his warmongering, bad financial decisions or execution sprees for 50 years or more. Though on one score, I empathized with King Henry: why shouldn't he be able to get a divorce like all the other powerful people could just because he was married to the aunt of the Holy Roman Emperor, who was holding the Pope virtually hostage?

Which brings us back to denomination-scale politics. When the administrators of a very large, ideologically-oriented organization decide that they're more like a country club congregation than a set of representatives for principles and functions that serve the stated goals of that larger group, they're leaving themselves wide open to having 95 theses nailed to their office doors.

That may be no big deal, in and of itself. But when the most transparent thing about your operations is that they're plainly based on cronyism and favoritism, the dark side of loyalty and affinity networks, you are eventually going to run afoul of someone who has the power to take their country and go home. Which is how the Roman Catholic Church lost England.

I am not calling for a separate political party. What I'm saying is that the Protestant Reformation happened precisely because the people at the top of a powerful organization decided that the most important politics were personal intrigues of the sort that plague every small, insular group yet invented. They therefore gave leniency to those they shared affinity with, and applied harsh rules to those they disliked or merely were not close to.

They became corrupt and eventually no longer stood for anything except, maybe, 'you and me against the world.' That's great for a family or similar, but is it an attitude we want to encourage in our elected representatives?

In modern parlance, MoveOn makes a mistake and gets censured, Lieberman campaigns for the opposition and gets a gavel. This matters enormously, and it says a great deal about where the border lines are drawn around the community that Obama personally feels himself to be part of.

Words vs Deeds

Chris and I let loose the snark last night, couldn't help it, on a composite of remarks that we've heard in person and read online. And I think that barryr, in the comments to that post, had a great summation of the larger argument that's been going on:

... I think there is a Words vs. Deeds schism. The pivot is about whether Obama should be given the benefit of the doubt.

On the one side, you have people who say that Obama has made this policy or that policy statement, and so he is progressive.  He has not had the opportunity to implement his policies, because he hasn't even been sworn in yet. So now is not the time to criticize him.

On the other side (FD: I'm on this side), you have people saying that Obama can and should be evaluated on his actual actions. We know what he has voted for, we know who he has campaigned for, we know who he has appointed to various key positions in his imminent administration. His actual actions are valid clues as to where he intends to take the country.

For either side, it is easy to assume that the other side irrationally loves or hates Obama. ...

Verily. And the arguments over his cabinet picks have reflected about this schism.

As to the Hillary Clinton pick, what I said when the VP speculation was at its height, I think including her in an Obama administration has benefits of star power and constituency inclusion that outweigh certain negatives. Though I agreed with Todd Beeton in that, though I think she will be competent, her foreign policy portfolio is my least favorite.

A rogue cabinet officer will surely be canned. Just, there's simply no way for any one person to keep track of every decision made by every federal agency. There will be no wars started on the sly. Though will agency staff bother inspecting certain large hog farms as regularly as they'd ought? That's another matter.

With several picks, actual deeds, we've gotten people who seem more part of the problem than the solution. Though they haven't been all bad, and I don't want to dwell on those now because that isn't the point of this post. For instance, Daschle seems like he really does have a passion for good healthcare policy, Melody Barnes has drawn rave reviews for her selection to head the Domestic Policy Council.

And even though the Interior Secretary pick hasn't been announced, I was very pleased to stumble across a news item from the Native American Rights Fund, noting that their executive director, John Echohawk, is on the transition team responsible for the Interior Department. Now, that is a solidly good thing and I'm pleased to hear it. Considering the history of Interior mismanagement of the Indian Trust Funds, and the impact Interior has on the lives of Native Americans, it's good and appropriate that they have representation in the process of selecting people to staff this department.

But, and this is the point of this post, I'm pleased about that because actions, and the people you hire to carry them out, really matter. If you read more about the Cobell class action suits, and absorb the depths of mismanagement involved, there's no way anyone could look someone like Echohawk in the eye and tell him that the ideology of the person who runs Interior doesn't matter. There were treaty obligations that previous administrations didn't want to meet, and the simplest way out was to refuse to enforce them, so they didn't. Oil and gas companies ripped off tribal (and local and federal) governments for years and the federal government is now exposed to billions in liability because those officials had a very particular idea of 'what works' in government and who it should work for.

Or consider agriculture. Maybe you don't follow it much, but please take note of this, regarding the Bush administration's alleged enforcement of fair competition rules:

... [John Crabtree of the Center for Rural Affairs] said that an audit requested by Iowa's Senators, Harkin and Grassley, of the performance of the Packers & Stockyards Administration at the USDA found that out of around 1800 investigations they claimed to have carried out between 2002 and 2005, 1739 cases included no documentation indicating that there had been any action taken. There were cases where a single phone call made to the department and noted in the records had been reported as an investigation, he said. ...

See? You don't even need signing statements in order to get around the law. There's no need for a president, or their cabinet officials, to telegraph their intention to sidestep laws that they find pesky. They just have to decide that they're not going to enforce them. What are you going to do about it? Arrest them? You and what Justice Department ... oh right, the president controls that, too.

I have no evidence that Obama means to broadly refuse to enforce the law, although now that I mention it, he did vote to exempt an entire industry from constitutional requirements that searches require court-issued warrants. My point is that the president and his cabinet departments have broad latitude over how a law is applied in practice based simply on the allocation of oversight and enforcement resources.

All it takes is a sin of omission.

So yes, the people the president picks matter. Their ideas and life stories matter. The president depends on them for advice, relies on them as filters for information in specialties that no one person can keep up on all the reading for, sends them out as intermediaries to negotiate with others and bring back people that they think he should meet.

Faith

When it comes to people I don't personally know, and that includes all these political figures, it's hard to say how much faith to have in them.

I lean towards very little. After all, I don't know them.

And considering that we're talking about an extension of power over a multitude of agencies with lots of moving parts, and the authority to interact on equal footing with whole Congress, which also has lots of moving parts, even less. When you add the firehose of information and metric ton of charm that will be unloaded on Obama and staff every time they move, even less faith than that.

It's hard to get people's attention with an email request when you're far away and someone with an expensive suit and exquisite manners is showing them a glossy, carefully edited report. You have to hope they have something to stand on, maybe ideology or principle. Perhaps the certain knowledge that if they cave they will have some angry constituency clogging the phone lines at all hours and keeping them from getting that call about a lunch appointment they were keen on. Anything greater than a sense that it's more important to have cordial relationships with the people who are in your face than it is to address the interests of people you'll never meet.

No one is so good that they can't be cracked, presuming they were of a mind to resist pressure in the first place. That's why you need an alternate source of pressure, preferably matched with their own internal sense of how things should be done.

So I have faith that politicians and their staff will do a mix of what they want, what they think they can get away with, and what they get the impression that other people want. I have faith that that you can't get what you don't ask for. I have faith that people who know they're being scrutinized are harder to tempt into misbehavior. But that's about it.

Also, and it's been a long time since I went to church, but I remember there was a bit that started, "Put not your faith in princes ..."


Tags: , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
A nation of 300 million is too big of a community (4.00 / 4)
Community style change just doesn't apply when you are discussing a nation of 300 million people.  It comes down to a movement and it's ideology.  I hope that Obama won't move too far right just to appease the right wing movement.  It won't work and in the end he'll alienate the movements that got him elected.

disagree (4.00 / 1)
On the other side (FD: I'm on this side), you have people saying that Obama can and should be evaluated on his actual actions. We know what he has voted for, we know who he has campaigned for, we know who he has appointed to various key positions in his imminent administration. His actual actions are valid clues as to where he intends to take the country.

Yes, but he's never been president before. And the people he's appointed have never been given nearly as much power as they now have. Power changes people, and not always for the worse. And if Obama's entire governing strategy is based on post-partisanship, I don't think it's fair to judge Obama or the people he selects based on where they fall in some liberal/conservative litmus test. He could nominate Sean Hannity as HHS secretary for all I care, so long as universal health care comes out of it.

We'll all have at least four years to criticize every single move he makes if we want. Seriously, just let the man shine.


Post-Partisanship Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry (3.20 / 5)
Never having to be responsible, either.

It's unfair to judge Obama in any way, because he told us he's going to be post-partisan, so just bug off all you partisan losers who gave your blood sweat and tears for however many months you worked.

So long, suckers!

Yeah. That's the ticket!

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Come on (0.00 / 0)
Do you really think that Obama's not going to succeed at getting something resembling his job/stimulus package passed? And if he does get it passed, wouldn't that be liberal/leftist/progressive enough? I'm pretty damn sure it's going to pass pretty easily and it's going to include a pretty sizable chunk of alternative energy spending. And I'm pretty sure I'm going to pretty happy with it.

If you really believe it's not going to pass because he didn't give Lieberman the (well-earned) shiv or because he's appointing some Clintonites and Rubinites to positions of power, then fine.

I don't think we 'Obamabots' mind criticism of Obama so much per se. We object to some of the assumptions behind the criticisms, although it may not always come off as tactfully as it could.

We're going to get some pretty major changes over the next few months/years. We're not just treading water here. Whether or not they'll be progressive enough for folks around here is another matter and well worthy of an ongoing debate.


[ Parent ]
Non-Responsive (4.00 / 4)
I'm mocking the argument that says, essentially, Obama can't be questioned because he's called "king's X".

Are you defending that sort of argument or not?

The new argument you're introducing here has plenty of things wrong with it as well. But first things first.  Do you think it's legitimate to question Obama at all?

If not, then why the double standard between him and Bush?

If so, then why isn't it legitimate to criticize the team he's putting together?  If they do a poor job of it, then we know damned well that the narrative will be, "look at how flawed all those progressive ideas were!"

If you want a progressive program to succeed, then you put people in charge of it who believe in it.  It's just common sense.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Of course (4.00 / 1)
I support criticism of Obama. I pretty much already said that: I don't think we 'Obamabots' mind criticism of Obama so much per se.

The fact that I'm okay by and large with Obama's actions thus far does not in any way mean I'm going to be okay with them going forward. I full well expect to be disappointed on a regular basis.


[ Parent ]
Wait a minute (4.00 / 5)
Most, if not all, of the people who are criticizing Obama's cabinet picks are also people who made it abundantly clear that they supported Obama for president IN SPITE OF his strategy of post-partisanship.

During the election, Democrats of a bipartisan persuasion and Democrats of a partisan persuasion and Democrats of a post-partisan persuasion came together to support Obama because he was the Democratic nominee, and before that because Hillary wasn't convincingly more partisan than Obama. Now that the election is over, the argument over how partisan the Democratic Party should be comes back to the fore - it is one of the more fundamental divisions within the party.

Furthermore, the criticism of Obama's picks could in large part be rephrased as a complaint that "post-partisanship" means excluding those who are partisan. If post-partisanship means that partisans don't have a seat at the table, then it seems that it really is the old bipartisanship under a different name, and there's good reason to believe that the old bipartisanship really meant that the Democratic Party should be more like the Republican Party.

If the Rubinites that Obama has appointed wield as much influence in Obama's administration as the wielded in Clinton's administration, it is likely that the result will be much the same: competent management of the economy (i.e., passing a big enough stimulus) resulting in better living standards for all, but continued widening of the income gap. If you don't believe that a big income gap is necessarily a problem, then the ideology of the economic team is irrelevant so long as they're competent. If you believe that a big income gap is necessarily a problem, and especially if you believe that the income gap is a problem that deserves specific attention, then the ideology of Obama's economic team is very relevant.


[ Parent ]
Well argued response (0.00 / 0)
I'm generally on the 'Obamabot' side of this (for lack of a better term) but that's very well put.

[ Parent ]
The arguments are not over partisianship (4.00 / 1)
but progresive policy. It issue wasn't that Hillary wasn't partisan enough it was that she clearly was not a progresive. Rubin was one of the chief proponents of the policies that have led to the current economic crisis.

We hear about how auto has to come up with a plan for the future and how the UAW must share in teh sacrafice, but banking and wall st. we hear crickets about how they have to change. Those are some of the problems that some of us have with Obama's selections.

It is not partisan for the sake of being partisan, it is articulating and advancing policies that work for the vast majority of Americans. The current picks for the most part are not by any means post-partisian, they are still the water carriers for wall st.  


[ Parent ]
I Questions Pastor Dan's Whole Premise (4.00 / 10)
Movements are often for the long haul (75 years for women's suffrage, anyone?) and the illusion that they depend on chrismatic figures is just that--an illusion.  They create charmatic figures, along with lots and lots of footsoldiers, and a substantial middle strata in between.

What I'm saying is simple: the whole movement/community distinction is bogus to begin with.  Movements build community, and communities fuel movements.  

All the further points made above are significant as well. But I just didn't want to let the basic, flawed premise to slide by, either.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


Yep. Pastor Dan has an oddly idealizing view here, for (4.00 / 1)
someone who is, at least in part, refuting the claims of the idealistic.
      WHAT community- where and of whom? Some specification is fairly crucial here, as drearily mundane as that may be.

[ Parent ]
I think you mean that you question Obama's whole premise (0.00 / 0)
It strikes me that Pastor Dan is trying to rationalize the current debate by seeking a split at a lower level. I'm not sure from what he writes whether he buys the movement/community distinction, but it seems that he believes that Obama buys it. If that really is Obama's premise, then the "many of us movement types" need to deal with it in a way that minimizes the "banging their heads on a wall", as Pastor Dan notes.

Whether Obama's premise is right or wrong, the likelihood of convincing him to change his premise is vanishingly small. We have to figure out a way of remaining a part of the governing coalition and working within Obama's premise without sacrificing our objections to that premise, or we have to become part of the opposition fighting to discredit Obama's premise.


[ Parent ]
Yes, that's substantially correct. (0.00 / 0)
While I believe that community sometimes gets the shaft in these discussions, I don't think it's possible to make a complete break between community and movement.

Obama, however, seems to think that you can make more of a distinction, and unless progressives understand his perspective, they're liable to be pretty frustrated over the next four to eight years.

Visit Street Prophets to talk about faith + politics!


[ Parent ]
So not only is Obama going to fail (4.00 / 1)
at achieving his oft-stated Big 3: getting out of Iraq responsibly, achieving universal health care (albeit without mandates), and curbing global warming because these appointments but we're also in danger of a political 30 Years War?

Politics IS War (4.00 / 4)
In case you hadn't noticed.

Whether the smartest candidate with the stupidest idea knows it or not.

There have always been those who have deludedly believed otherwise.  Those on top laugh at them.  Those on the bottom cry.

Power concedes nothing without a demand.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Yes (0.00 / 0)
Politics is war. And we just won a very big battle that has given Obama incredible political leverage/capital, which is going to make it relatively easy for him to achieve his Big 3 goals.  

[ Parent ]
That Will Be The Spin (4.00 / 6)
But what good is getting out of Iraq, if we just make the same fundamental mistake in Afghanistan?

And what good is universal health care, in the long run, if we don't eventually get rid of the market wastefulness that makes our system so incredibly more costly than anyone elses?  

It's the trajectory of change, not just the initial stages, that matters in the long run.  Having just one a big battle, Obama is doing nothing to indicate he even remotely understands this.  He has always been ambiguous, promising both change and continuity.  Which is sensible, in a sense, since that's what you always get, whether you want it or not.  The question is always in the mix.

And now we're learning that mix is quite mixed up.  We're supposed to get change delivered almost exclusively by folks who've spent their lives resisting it.  Don't worry, though, because the head man's heart is pure!

Didn't the GOP believe that themselves about their great leader 8 years ago?

Following without questioning = death.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
I think we're likely to get pretty good change that is (4.00 / 1)
still deeply flawed. I don't expect, for example, that Obama is going to make healthcare efficient, fully accessible and affordable. I think he's going to make it slightly less inefficient, significantly less unaccessible and significantly less unaffordable. The end result will be a helluva lot better than what we've got now but still godawful messy.

Same goes for current and future foreign policy disasters. I have no doubt that Obama is going to make mistakes and that his fixes will be maddeningly imperfect.  


[ Parent ]
And in war, battles are not all important (4.00 / 2)
Now comes the phase of manouevre, setting up the next battle. And that's the most important phase.

Sure, he'll probably achieve his Big 3 goals. But how completely? With how much special interest fodder added? For positive or negative special interests? And with how much political capital expended?

I don't just want to win this time. I want to keep winning. That's why I think this is important.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


[ Parent ]
I didn't say that at all (4.00 / 3)
This isn't about whether Obama will succeed about some specific policy measure. It's about the reasons why the people who are picked to execute policy matter, and why I believe that a lot of this anti-criticism misses the point and involves what I see to be unwarranted levels of trust in someone who is a man like other men, about to be put into the most powerful job in the world.

Previously, we weren't supposed to criticize him because there was an election to win. It's been won. Now it's because he hasn't done anything yet. Well, he has. He's hired people.

Numerous people in comments (and elsewhere, come to it, because this is a broad-ranging line of argument in many venues) complain variously that a) there's no point even talking about this, b) that critics should have what amounts to more faith, c) that people making these arguments are unresponsive to the other side and d) that it's wrong to react to people being 'mean' by arguing your side of the case when you disagree with them.

However, this is a serious argument and an important one to have. It's also the point of Senate confirmation. I can assure you that the Senate is going to have very pointed and probing questions to ask these appointees and I can't imagine that even the Democrats are going to avoid asking questions just because they may like Obama, nor that they're going to be criticized as saying that the administration is a failure because they want to verify before they trust.

And I'll note also that government is responsible for more than three things. Maybe those other things don't matter to you. But it's ridiculous to suggest they shouldn't matter to others.


[ Parent ]
Hmm... (4.00 / 1)
The two sides on this are really talking past each other. I'm probably just as guilty of this as anybody.

I certainly agree that this is important and that these criticisms should be aired and acted upon.

I also agree with you on points A and B above. I have made C myself, think it's a fantastic, accurate criticism. This site has a pretty one-dimensional, old-fashioned view of progressivism and political strategy and tactics. Your implication seems to be that you guys have responded to our posts substantively and, frankly, I don't see that at all. You're responding en masse and repeatedly to a general 'don't criticize Obama' strawman. And D is, well, just whacked.

I'm not suggesting that the 'non-Big 3' matters shouldn't matter. I'm suggesting that the Big 3 -- and the substantive/methodological issues associated with them --  are being largely ignored.


[ Parent ]
Oh yeah (0.00 / 0)
and on my 30 Years War crack, what did you mean by that? That individual/personal mistakes can lead to big, structural changes and schisms? That's the way I took it.

[ Parent ]
Disagree (0.00 / 0)
Maybe, you know, people just disagree with you. And regarding your big 3 list, there aren't actual policies or bills out regarding these things. Devil's always in the details and the only concrete activity I see right now is a hiring process. Obama's economic plan isn't out. There is no health legislation before congress. End of story.

And you, personally, may not be arguing that Obama shouldn't be criticized on anything. Though plenty of people do seem to be, on net, saying just that. Anytime a criticism of Obama is raised, some person or another freaks the frak out. The collective effect is that criticism is more often met with protest, complaints that it doesn't matter, that more trust is required, that we should wait and see.

The effect of that is, again, an impression that goes beyond an interaction with any one person. So for you to argue that we're talking about a strawman because we're responding to things you haven't said, it sort of misses that larger context.

However, for you to say that you agree with me on points A and B is to mistake what I've said. I don't agree with those things. I do think these are reasonable things to talk about and I don't take politicians on faith. And you are then arguing that Obama shouldn't be criticized on this topic, but then, that's always the way with the fan legions - the net effect of which, as I've explained, is that any criticism of Obama will be met with anger and denial.

And it's true that at this point, anyone making a 'don't criticize my hero, have more faith' argument to me, is talking past me. The election's over. Arguing on faith is inherently unserious, imo, and I feel no compunction to take people as credible partners in conversation whose main premise of substance is 'trust him.'

Anyway, I'm done. Off for the holiday, have a happy Thanksgiving.  


[ Parent ]
Excellent. (4.00 / 3)
This matters enormously, and it says a great deal about where the border lines are drawn around the community that Obama personally feels himself to be part of.

Progressives, especially those who advocate for labor and economic justice, are outside the border.


My $.02 (4.00 / 2)
I doesn't really matter how much we complain about various cabinet picks, and it is utterly and unreliably speculative to attempt to divine Obama's intentions from them. However, from what I have taken of the picks is that Obama is undertaking a disciplined construction of a team of people meant to move legislation. Putting aside ideology, political philosophy or even coinciding core beliefs in what the goal of the respective agency implicated is, the members seem to people with an inherent knowledge or experienced hand is certain aspects of how to the process works and/or the ability to get things done. He is picking people who have connections, debts owed, or "persuasive" talents, and maybe knowledge of how to take advantage procedures, rules and loopholes. (Like building an effective Litigation team for a specific trial; All members are good lawyers, competent litigators, but particularly talented in one or the other aspect of a trial such as discovery, or evidence, or cross-examination. They may have different beliefs but all that is put aside in order to win the case for the client/firm.)

What I see is that Obama wants to get done quickly and as lock step as possible what he wants done, period. Now, what that might be is most certainly a leap of faith and where I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt. Not because I adore or fawn over every move he makes, but because I have seen him act and react with pristine efficiency and quick clarity to every aspect of his campaign and every issue that has come up up to now.

He is getting ready for a long season and trying to put together a superbowl team that will hopefully be undefeated or have the best record. (sorry couldn't resist the sports analogy).

Anyway I hope that what he plans is to get done those things that we need right now to get this country back on track.


Word (4.00 / 2)
This is a great summation of what a lot of us are feeling. Thanks.

Me | My Work | Future Majority

catholic? (0.00 / 0)
But when the most transparent thing about your operations is that they're plainly based on cronyism and favoritism, the dark side of loyalty and affinity networks, you are eventually going to run afoul of someone who has the power to take their country and go home. Which is how the Roman Catholic Church lost England.

Catholic Church and the Pope?
I thought you were talking about SEIU and Andy Stern.


If you'll permit a gross oversimplification... (4.00 / 1)
Here we go.

Assume the parties (D/R) are split 55/45. (Yes, I'm ignoring greens, independents, etc.)

Assume the standard "self-described" Pew liberal/moderate/conservative breakdowns apply: 20/50/30 (this has been pretty consistent since the 1960's, FWIW, with some fluctuation).

Assign the liberals ALL to the Democrats, conservatives ALL to the Republicans, and then assume the moderates fill out the rest of both parties. (Yes, this is another simplification.)

In that case, the breakdowns are:

Democrats: 35 moderate, 20 liberal
Republicans: 30 conservative, 15 moderate

In other words, you have what we have today, where liberalsprogressives go "WTF? How is it that the f$#%ing conservatives run the Republican Party, and we're begging for table scraps from the Obama administration?"

Simply put, YES, the moderates run the Democratic party. That doesn't mean giving up the good fight, but it DOES mean being realistic- we start kind of behind the conservatives in making our voices heard in our chosen party.

As such... why the hell SHOULDN'T we make noise? The reality is that we either do it, or sit at the back of the bus.


What This Overlooks (4.00 / 1)
Is the long-established fact that even conservatives are New Deal liberals on policy.  "Small government conservatives" represent well less than half of all self-described conservatives.  The same is roughly true on foreign policy: conservatives are pretty evenly split on multi-lateralism, and thanks to lingering isolationism, conservative opposition to overseas adventurism is pretty intense, as well.

On these two major areas--pre-70s domestic policy and foreign policy--liberal policy views are overwhelmingly popular, but widely disdained by Versailles.  It's the remainder of stuff--the so-called "culture wars" over "social issues" (which didn't even used to be part of national politics) which are much more narrowly divided, but they are also heading more in our direction as even younger white Evanglicals have grown more diverse in their views, while the non-white/non-Christian coalition keeps on growing in size.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
To extend on some points above (0.00 / 0)
I think that Pastordan and to some extent Natasha are overlapping two usefully distinct issues.

The first is the distinction between communities and movements.  And I agree as someone else here said that communities as I understand this concept don't scale up.  They are made up of personal relationships of some limited degree of difference.  People are "known" to each other if they are in community with each other.  

Movements are often enormous, made up of a vast diversity of communities working on a common challenge often using a range of different strategies and informed by differing and often conflicting perspectives that often aren't perceived from the outside.  As I understand them, movements generally coalesce around a common aim, and often dissolve when this aim is achieved (or destroyed) to one extent or another.  They can last for a long time, but, sadly, usually don't.  The women's movement and others like it (the ongoing fight over gay marriage/civil unions and the abortion fight) are probably exceptions.  

The second is the distinction between public and private relationships (as community organizers have recently defined these).  Public relationships may be personal, but are framed around a public engagement in issues and concerns.  They are supposed to leave aspects of the community relationships of loyalty behind.  

Private relationships are the kind of relationships we have in churches and families, where we support each other regardless of our public positions.  

I would say that this question of legitimate public relationships vs illigitimate private relationships of loyalty irregardless of public value is a key issue that gets lost in the movement/community distinction.  A legitimate "public" community like perhaps the Senate should be would not lean on loyalty and friendship except to the extent that respectful relationships allow things to get done and pragmatics means that you can never separate the two.  

In other words, you can try to have "public" communities that involve personal relationships that serve a legitimate purpose.

And, because communities don't scale up, one is necessarily left with the need to have "public" communities of representatives of people who cannot directly participate in the "community" dialogues of the powerful.  

So, a question for me is whether Obama is a community guy in the private or public sense. I hope the latter.

Further, if he confuses communities with movements, denying the very different structure of movements since "communities" simply can't scale up, he's living in a fantasy.  I wonder if his tendency during the election to talk about a bottom-up movement and at the same time as he tended to centralize almost everything important about his campaign and eliminate opposing organizations represents a belief that he is "in" community with his "people" and thus doesn't need to have more organizational movement-like internal conflicts?  Clearly he's not that dumb, but I still wonder how he is able to combine this idea of a bottom-up movement with tightly controlled centralization without really addressing the deep contradictions involved.

I chatted about the differences between campaigns and movements here, and it seems relevant:  http://openleft.com/showDiary....

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


SEIU will donate $1 to OpenLeft for each individual who signs up for their campaign to pass health care for all Americans. Sign up here.
Donate to Open Left
QUICK HITS
PREMIUM AD


Friends of the Earth thanks the OpenLeft community for the ideas you generate and your contributions to the progressive movement.