Bailout Caricatures

by: David Sirota

Mon Dec 22, 2008 at 12:09


UPDATE: Yglesias essentially concedes the point. I appreciate him doing that - shows he's arguing from good faith (which I always assumed). The key here is making sure these debates are on the merits, and I think his clarification helps do that.

Writing about the debate over the bailout, CAP's Matt Yglesias says there existed a "Sirota/Pence view that government intervention was unnecessary" (Pence, referring to right-wing Rep. Mike Pence). When I read this, I was stunned - did I ever say I thought government intervention was unnecessary?

I went back through all my columns and blog posts on the bailout and found that actually, no, I never said government intervention was unnecessary. I didn't even say anything close to that, nor did any leading progressives I know. I said the bailout - as constructed - was a sham designed to rip off taxpayers, but that government intervention on much different terms was necessary and desirable.

David Sirota :: Bailout Caricatures
So why did Yglesias fabricate the storyline that I pushed the concept "that government intervention was unnecessary?" I guess it's possible it has something to do with the recent flap whereby his bosses at CAP knee-capped him over his light criticism of the corporate front-group Third Way. Perhaps he's just trying to do the Beltway's old Punch a Hippie act, whereby he proves his Beltway credentials by attacking to his left.

My guess, however, is that it's not that, and that it's something deeper and that it wasn't calculated. My guess is that it's a carelessly reflexive statement that reflects a broader trend whereby pundits and commentators have inaccurately caricatured bailout opponents. The conventional wisdom in D.C. has been that if you were for the bailout, you were supposedly a Very Serious Pragmatist, but if you were one of the majority of Americans who was against it, you were a Luddite Reactionary who wanted the government to do nothing at all and let the economy die.

Now, I agree - there were right-wing reactionaries like Pence who opposed the bailout because of an ideological antipathy to government intervention in the market.

But the progressive opposition had to do with the structure of the bailout being proposed, not the concept of government intervention. In fact, many of us said the government should intervene, only on very different terms than it did (for instance, on terms that bought voting shares of stock, included oversight measures, seriously limited executive pay, etc.).

When the final bill came to the floor of the House and Senate, progressive opponents believed it should have been voted down, because, as Matt Stoller and Dean Baker show now (and showed at the time), that would have amost certainly forced a different kind of government intervention - one likely on much better terms (not hard to do, considering the terms of the current bailout are so absurdly bad that banks are using our taxpayer cash to subsidize lavish executive bonuses, while simultaneously refusing to tell reporters or regulators how they are spending the money).

Now, of course, we know the results. Various studies have shown that those of us who raised progressive objections to the bailout have been proven right, and those who advocated it have been proven wrong. The fact that the same pre-bailout caricatures of proponents as Very Serious and opponents as Luddites now continue (and worse, continue to be pushed by progressive voices like Yglesias*) is merely a commentary on the staying power of D.C.'s fact-free memes - nothing more, nothing less.

It's the same thing with so many issues, really - the highest profile being the war. Those who opposed the Iraq War are still seen as Unserious Ideologues and those who promoted it are looked at as Serious Pragmatists.

How to end this? It's hard to say. The vast majority of the public is both intensely against the current bailout and the Iraq War, and so D.C. has effectively said that the vast majority of the public in whose name it governs is Unserious and worthy of scorn.

That's an extremist and authoritarian theme if there ever was one, and my guess is it will take years of movement work to change that dynamic, whether on the bailout, the war or any other issue where Washington has sneered at the public. Getting our government to even take We the People seriously - much less do what we want - is the challenge of our time.

* I'm not really sure whether Yglesias was for or against the bailout. It's hard to tell by his aggregate pre-vote posts, though this one suggests he was for it. If that's true and he was for it, it would shed further light on why he's now trying to dishonestly caricature bailout opponents. This is what D.C. folk tend to do - when they are wrong, rather than admit fault, they dig in and intensify their efforts to marginalize those who were right (see: war, Iraq).  


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Bailout Caricatures | 13 comments
Well, Ygelsias (4.00 / 4)
also supported the Iraq War.

It's probably not not very comfy being proved wrong about another huge issue.

The good news for him is that wrongness about big things is no impediment to upward advancement. On the contrary, he's well positioned to become THE "liberal" pundit.


He supported the war? (0.00 / 0)
I never knew that.  I wasn't reading blogs then.

Not a good track record.


[ Parent ]
This is especially interesting considering the Third Way blowup (4.00 / 1)
Authoritarian themes indeed.

Stoller and Baker do not "show" anything (0.00 / 0)
Your link is to an assertion that it is "simple" to nationalize the entire banking system of the U.S.

There is no real evidence (as opposed to speculation) that this is simple, nor is there evidence that that is, in fact, the most likely outcome of a bailout failure.

There is no way to know with certainty what the outcome of a failed vote would have been. My reading of all of the various commentary is that those, like Krugman and others like Yglesias who "favored" the bailout, did so because they judged that the likely outcome of a failed vote was less benign than Stoller asserts.

It was all a gamble. You same to be saying we should have pushed all the chips into the middle. Bailout proponents thought that was too risky. Yes, crisis presents opportunity: for progress and for disaster, poised on a knife's edge. If that's the case, advocates on neither side need be belittled.

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That's fine (4.00 / 1)
But I never - NEVER - argued that government intervention was unnecessary.

[ Parent ]
Nationalization was done in Sweden (4.00 / 1)
And worked very well. The FDIC is set up to take over basically any bank in the country. The Fed was already authorized to lend money if necessary.

In any case, doing nothing would have been better than this. The taxpayers are liable for hundreds of billions and have received no meaningful benefit. The TARP money sits in Federal reserve accounts earning the banks interest - from the government. The crash is snowballing because the government refuses to take useful steps, like increasing the money supply, making adequate loans to real businesses, or direct stimulus. Handing money to the fools and crooks who put us in this mess isn't helping.


[ Parent ]
Legislation writing versus voting (0.00 / 0)
There is a difference between approaching the legislation as one writing the bill and one given the binary choice for voting it up or down.  From the view of writing the bill, I agree with all you say above.

But at the end of the day, when yes or no were the only choices available, you encouraged lawmakers to vote no.  You are correct that Matt's wording, saying you thought "government intervention was unnecessary," is overly broad and a caricature of your position.  But had he said "this government intervention is unnecessary," referring to the particular bill, he would be basically be correct.

Given that congress didn't even follow through with the checks and balances that were in the bill, I'm not at all convinced that a tighter, better bill would have changed the reality all that much in the hands of Bush.  But it is hard to figure out how much cynicism is correct and where to apply it sometimes with this crew.


re: the Update (0.00 / 0)
You should now do him a solid and make a post here regarding CAP sucking up to the Third Way, so he can finally comment on what happened.  Then his comments section can get back to the same 5-10 people making SUPERTRAIN jokes.

Good point, David. (4.00 / 2)
I'd also add that the bailout negotiations and the Congressional vote was one of too many (alas) instances where the left missed a golden opportunity to push forward an alternative which the Washington Consensus would normally find completely intolerable but which they would have been pushed by reality into accepting.

Even normally reliable leftists like Doug Henwood jumped on board the bailout and made snide remarks directed at those of us who were on Wall Street protesting it.  (That was a very energetic protest, by the way-which led me, and I'm sure a few others, to the realization that EVERY protest should be on Wall Street-since that's where the shots are really called.)

All this demonstrates how even the furthest reaches of the establishment left are themselves captives of centrist conventional wisdom and, when push come to shove, will work to reign in rather than help foment protest which has the capacity to go beyond the bounds of acceptable discourse.

Dean Baker was on the side of the angels on this one-as were you.

Wish we had a thousand like him and you.



Alternative (0.00 / 0)
The Progressive Caucus (if I remember correctly) put out an official alternative.  Unfortunately, it wasn't any better than the other proposal as far as I could tell, it just put all the power into the hands of the Fed instead of Paulson.  Had there actually been a clearly better proposal out there actually supported by some members of congress I might have joined the 'vote no' chorus.

[ Parent ]
A walk down bailout memory lane ... (0.00 / 0)
1. Some people -- and they weren't all conservatives -- did suggest that the bailout wasn't necessary. Economist  James Galbraith made a great argument against the bailout in the Washington Post.  

2. Other bailout plans were proposed, even one by Barry Sanders,  but ignored.

3. And you're absolutely right that bloggers everywhere shared Krugman's skepticism over the bailout, wondering "Why the rush to get this bailout plan passed now?"    


I meant Bernie, not Barry (0.00 / 0)
 ... although Barry might have had a plan too.  

[ Parent ]
Bailout Caricatures | 13 comments
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