This would be a great thing (4.00 / 2)

to take up and really push. I look forward to Webb tackling this very important issue that's never really been seriously looked at.

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power

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by: Populista @ Mon Dec 29, 2008 at 20:25:37 PM CST

Long, long overdue (0.00 / 0)

I wonder if President-elect Obama has seen The Wire. I wonder if he understands the sheer waste of lives, let alone the cruelty. Will he try to end the militarization of the police, the injustice of the justice system, the corruption of outsourced incarceration? Will we help him?

Stay tuned....

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by: William Timberman @ Tue Dec 30, 2008 at 11:22:53 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Don Siegelman for Director Bureau of Prisons (4.00 / 3)

after he wins his appeal.




This is a Test of the Emergency Free Speech System. This is only a Test. In an actual Free Speech Emergency, I'll be locked up.

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by: Ben Masel @ Mon Dec 29, 2008 at 20:26:09 PM CST

great to see (4.00 / 5)

The unsuccessful war on drugs with property seizures and inequitable mandatory sentencing, the privatization of incarceration with little public oversight, the great distances that many felon are kept from their families, and--most tragically--the disproportionately high percentage of AA's jailed--are all issues that someone of Webb's stature can be a great moral voice for.

I really hope he follows through on this in a vigorous way.

They call me Clem, Clem Guttata. Come visit wild, wonderful West Virginia Blue

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by: WVaBlue @ Tue Dec 30, 2008 at 05:01:07 AM CST

One thing I would like to see (4.00 / 6)

would be then end of "three/fifths of a person," I mean, the end of the rules by which prisoners are counted as part of the population when it comes time for divvying up congressional districts and federal largesse, yet they are not allowed to vote.

Rural districts compete to get prisons built in them, because they are, in a sense, "model citizens." They bring plenty of government spending with them but get nothing in return. And they make a handy captive labor force, too.

It pisses me off when I drive by one of these prisons, in north Georgia near my uncle's house, and think what would happen if those mostly African American inmates from other parts of Georgia were allowed to vote in that red, red, county.

Either let them vote, or don't let the counties count them as part of the population, and then they won't be so eager to build more of them.

Montani semper liberi

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by: Sadie Baker @ Tue Dec 30, 2008 at 06:40:24 AM CST

We spend zillions to arrest, prosecute, incarcerate, and (4.00 / 2)

then we spend millions on prisoner re-entry programs trying to undue the damage we did through the stupid war on drugs in the first place.   The best way to help offenders is not to create them in the first freaking place.   The war on drugs is nothing more than a war on poor people and their kids. The second part of this useless equation is the incentives to prisons for profit and the cops to keep making more and more and more....

Meanwhile on OpenforChange.gov, Obama is stating he isn't in favor of legalizing drugs to the number one question of legalizaing marijuana.  So much for change.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

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by: dkmich @ Tue Dec 30, 2008 at 06:54:01 AM CST

undo, undo, undo (0.00 / 0)

Good thing there isn't a war against people who don't proof.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

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by: dkmich @ Tue Dec 30, 2008 at 06:55:34 AM CST

[ Parent ]

The brush off from Obama (4.00 / 1)

on legalizing marijuana doesn't mean there is no room for change, but it does suggest that another way of approaching the issue is worth a try.  

The Obama team is not open to legalization.  But what about redirecting resources (prosecutors, police) away from drugs, or away from low level distribution?  What about shifting decisions about what to allow and the possible penalties to the state level?  Or reducing the negative long term impact of a drug conviction?

There is a world of difference between drug criminalization and the War on (some people who use) Drugs.  The key is finding another way to press on the Obama Administration (and other points as well.)

Support a Pennsylvania Progressive for Governor - Joe Hoeffel

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by: David Kaib @ Tue Dec 30, 2008 at 18:45:15 PM CST

[ Parent ]

By keeping pot illegal, you keep it in the realm of the law breakers. (0.00 / 0)

Kids/people shouldn't be forced to affiliate with law breakers to smoke pot.  Breaking the pot laws are one thing, but some of the people involved in drugs break a hell of a lot more laws than just that.   I don't condone kids smoking pot or drinking, but we all know they/some do anyway.  Why increase the number of bad influences and muddy their moral code?

Pot and all drugs equal or less harmful need to be legalized. The rest need to be decriminalized and require treatment.  People need to be let out of jails immediately, and their convictions needs to be reversed and erased from the public record.    

Obama is just ducking and covering his political ass.  We need to make him lead on this.  I think it was either Rangel or Frank who said they were in favor of legalized pot and would like to sponsor legislation to do just that someday when they felt a little safer.  Maybe they should join up and jump in.  They might be surprised.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

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by: dkmich @ Thu Jan 01, 2009 at 16:16:17 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Obama won't lead on legalization (0.00 / 0)

Pot and all drugs equal or less harmful need to be legalized. The rest need to be decriminalized and require treatment.  People need to be let out of jails immediately, and their convictions needs to be reversed and erased from the public record.

Need? Regardless of whether you believe this, or whether I believe this, it's unlikely to happen.  Making this the central piece of pressuring Obama (or Webb) means being left out of the discussion.

Obama is just ducking and covering his political ass.  We need to make him lead on this.

Obama has made clear he's not going to lead on legalization. The Obama team doesn't even feel the need to explain themselves when they repeat that they don't support legalization. This should come as no surprise - someone who would be willing to lead on this would not have gotten the nomination.  Push Obama where he might lead, and push others where they might lead.  

I think it was either Rangel or Frank who said they were in favor of legalized pot and would like to sponsor legislation to do just that someday when they felt a little safer.

 

Good idea.  Getting either of these two to make the case for this could help change the landscape. Getting some others to join them would be even better.  When that sort of thing happens, it would open more space to talk about this issue rationally.  

Support a Pennsylvania Progressive for Governor - Joe Hoeffel

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by: David Kaib @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 22:28:20 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Oh yeah, not pragmatic. (0.00 / 0)

Afterall, we wouldn't want to save the country millions, create new revenue, crops, and industries, and stop persecuting people and destroying their families because it wasn't pragmatic for Obama's and the Democrat's career ambitions.  What a pile.  If your position on this represents pragmatism, no wonder it sucks.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

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by: dkmich @ Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 08:38:15 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I don't know what you're talking about (0.00 / 0)

Who said legalization was a bad idea, or that it shouldn't be pushed for? Who suggested that the career ambitions of politicians should override what's the right thing to do? Who said or implied anything about pragmatism? Who suggested it was ok for Obama not to take the lead on this?

Not me.  

There's a difference between acknowledging reality (where particular politicians stand and where they could be pushed to and how they can be effectively pushed) and accepting that reality. My point was about how best to change the status quo - it wasn't a defense of it. While I think the Obama response to the question was wrongheaded and inappropriate (lacking even an attempt at providing a reason), I don't think it follows that there's noting his administration would be willing to do.

Here's what Obama said to Rolling Stone:

Anybody who sees the devastating impact of the drug trade in the inner cities, or the methamphetamine trade in rural communities, knows that this is a huge problem. I believe in shifting the paradigm, shifting the model, so that we focus more on a public-health approach. I can say this as an ex-smoker: We've made enormous progress in making smoking socially unacceptable. You think about auto safety and the huge success we've had in getting people to fasten their seat belts.

The point is that if we're putting more money into education, into treatment, into prevention and reducing the demand side, then the ways that we operate on the criminal side can shift. I would start with nonviolent, first-time drug offenders. The notion that we are imposing felonies on them or sending them to prison, where they are getting advanced degrees in criminality, instead of thinking about ways like drug courts that can get them back on track in their lives - it's expensive, it's counterproductive, and it doesn't make sense

http://transform-drugs.blogspo...

There is change in there, but it's not enough.  I think it's best to focus on what's right here, and what's not - to push the Obama Admin to do and say the things they are getting right, and to work on the things they are getting wrong (which probably requires focusing on members of Congress and the state level, rather than just focusing on the President.) I think Webb might help on this score, but I'd be surprised if he ended up fully on board with legalization.

I might be wrong on how to go about this.  I don't see any reason to think that Obama is going to budge on the question of legalization, at least without anyone else shifting.  I'm open to hearing what everyone else has to say about how to bring about change.  But let's leave my (and everyone else's) motives out of this.  

Support a Pennsylvania Progressive for Governor - Joe Hoeffel

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by: David Kaib @ Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 13:14:04 PM CST

[ Parent ]

A great place to start (4.00 / 1)

on these issues is this recent report (pdf) that covers crime policy issues pretty comprehensively. I'd love to see Webb get behind this effort.  There are also a number of things that a president can address that don't involve legislation.

http://www.sentencingproject.o...  

Support a Pennsylvania Progressive for Governor - Joe Hoeffel

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by: David Kaib @ Wed Dec 31, 2008 at 12:52:00 PM CST