Demonstrations Tomorrow As Debate Spreads Over Israel's Attack On Gaza

by: Paul Rosenberg

Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 17:15


As dissenting Jewish voices in America are increasingly being heard, as they have long been heard in Israel, the hawkish, rightwing-oriented establishment epitomized by AIPIC is growing increasingly irrational.  A rational discussion is trying to break through, but a rational discussion is the last thing that AIPAC establishment wants.  There are demonstrations against Israel's attack on across the country tomorrow, in Washington, Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, Portland, OR, Sacramento, CA, Urbana, Ill as well as around the world.

Even Time magazine's cover proclaims, "Why Israel Can't Win", while the accompanying cover story asks, "Can Israel Survive Its Assault on Gaza?"  As with the Wall Street meltdown, the old ideology has visibly self-destructed, yet it's defenders still fight on, not realizing they've already lost.  Unfortunately, in neither instance does that mean that sanity has yet won.  But debate is spreading where there was only silence before. And the growing outspokenness of Jewish-American opposition to what is being done in our name--as well as to Israel--is a heartening sign.  Some examples:

  • An article in the New York Jewish Week, "Fresh Rift Emerges Over War Response", emailed out by J Street, discussed the heightened level of controversy that J Street has elicited:
    "Other peace groups issued statements, but they're not seen as serious people," said the leader of a major pro-Israel group this week. "But J Street includes serious people with serious connections with the new administration, and people are very worried.  They don't have much power now, but there's a feeling that they could gain a lot of influence in the new Congress and with the new administration."

  • Rosanne Barr, loudmouth Jew extraordinaire, kicked off her new local radio show on KPFK Pacifica with a blistering attack on warmongering and bigotry of all kinds taking primary aim on how she feels her faith has been distorted and abused.  (Listen here.) It was truly refreshing to hear a pro-peace, anti-imperialist Jewish voice without one second of defensiveness in a 60-minute program.  How soon can they start syndicating her?

  • On Democracy Now! yesterday, Amy and Juan had Former Ambassador to Israel Martin Indyk on to discuss his new book, Innocent Abroad: An Intimate Account of American Peace Diplomacy in the Middle East.  But they also had on Norman Finkelstein, author of several books, including The Holocaust Industry and Beyond Chutzpah, and Martin Indyk just about had a cow.  He was, quite literally, incapable of arguing with Finklestein, and tried to make a virtue of necessity by presenting it as a matter of honor and principle that he would not debate Finklestein.  But he lost embarrassingly, anyway.   Details--or should I say, morsels--on the flip.
Paul Rosenberg :: Demonstrations Tomorrow As Debate Spreads Over Israel's Attack On Gaza
First, we see what an affront it is that an Israeli apologist has to appear with a knowledgeable critic:

AMY GOODMAN: We turn first to Ambassador Indyk. Can you explain why you think Israel began this assault almost two weeks ago now?

MARTIN INDYK: Good morning, Amy. Thanks very much for having me on the show. I feel a little bit sandbagged here. I was not told that I was going to be in some kind of debate with Norman Finkelstein. I'm not interested in doing that. I'm also not here as a spokesman for Israel. But I will try to answer your questions as best I can.

And then we see why, as Indyk trots out the official narrative of Israeli blamelessness:

I think that what happened here was that there was a ceasefire, an informal ceasefire, between Hamas and Israel that had lasted for about five months. Hamas decided to break that ceasefire with a prolonged series of rocket attacks on Israeli civilians in southern Israel. And the Israeli government responded with overwhelming force, designed, as they have said, to try to reestablish deterrence, to prevent Hamas from doing that again, and to try to get a ceasefire in place that would prevent Hamas from smuggling in offensive weapons into Gaza, the better to attack Israel.

And Finkelstein knocks it down:

AMY GOODMAN: Norman Finkelstein, your assessment of why Israel attacked now?

NORMAN FINKELSTEIN: Well, the record is fairly clear. You can find it on the Israeli website, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website. Mr. Indyk is correct that Hamas had adhered to the ceasefire from June 17th until November 4th. On November 4th, here Mr. Indyk, I think, goes awry. The record is clear: Israel broke the ceasefire by going into the Gaza and killing six or seven Palestinian militants. At that point--and now I'm quoting the official Israeli website--Hamas retaliated or, in retaliation for the Israeli attack, then launched the missiles.

Now, as to the reason why, the record is fairly clear as well. According to Ha'aretz, Defense Minister Barak began plans for this invasion before the ceasefire even began. In fact, according to yesterday's Ha'aretz, the plans for the invasion began in March. And the main reasons for the invasion, I think, are twofold. Number one, as Mr. Indyk I think correctly points out, to enhance what Israel calls its deterrence capacity, which in layman's language basically means Israel's capacity to terrorize the region into submission. After their defeat in July 2006 in Lebanon, they felt it important to transmit the message that Israel is still a fighting force, still capable of terrorizing those who dare defy its word.

And the second main reason for the attack is because Hamas was signaling that it wanted a diplomatic settlement of the conflict along the June 1967 border. That is to say, Hamas was signaling they had joined the international consensus, they had joined most of the international community, overwhelmingly the international community, in seeking a diplomatic settlement. And at that point, Israel was faced with what Israelis call a Palestinian peace offensive. And in order to defeat the peace offensive, they sought to dismantle Hamas.

Indyk goes on to embellish his story about the endless evil of Hamas:

JUAN GONZALEZ: I'd like to--Ambassador Indyk, this issue of supporters of Israel say repeatedly that Hamas is still committed to the destruction of Israel. Is your sense that over the last year or so there has been some kind of a change in the viewpoints of the Hamas leaders?

MARTIN INDYK: No, I don't think there's any evidence of that. Hamas is very clear that it will not make peace with Israel; it will not recognize Israel; its intention is to destroy the Jewish state, that it's an abomination in the midst of the Arab heartland, Islamic world, and so on. And I don't see that there's any change in that whatsoever.

I think the change that's taken place is a change on the ground. Hamas, having won the PA elections and then--we don't need to go into the details of that, but essentially what happened was, as a result of a competition between Hamas and Fatah over who would rule, Hamas took control of Gaza by force in what was, in effect, a putsch against the Palestinian Authority. It therefore moved from being a terrorist organization to a terrorist government, responsible for controlling territory in Gaza and responsible for meeting the needs of one-and-a-half million Palestinians in Gaza....

And when it's Finklestein's turn, he calls him on it:

AMY GOODMAN: Norman Finkelstein?

NORMAN FINKELSTEIN: Well, I think the problem of Mr. Indyk's presentation is he constantly reverses cause and effect. Just as he said a moment ago that it was Hamas which broke the ceasefire, although he well knows it was Israel that broke the ceasefire on November 4th, he now reverses cause and effect as to how the present impasse came about. In January 2006, as he writes in his book, Hamas came to power in a free and fair election. I think those are his words. He then claims on your program and he claims in his book that Hamas committed a "putsch"--his word--in order to eliminate the Palestinian Authority. And as I'm sure Mr. Indyk well knows and as was documented in the April 2008 issue of Vanity Fair by the writer David Rose, basing himself on internal US documents, it was the United States in cahoots with the Palestinian Authority and Israel which were attempting a putsch on Hamas, and Hamas preempted the putsch. That, too, is no longer debatable or no longer a controversial claim.

NORMAN FINKELSTEIN: Correct. The problem all along has been that Israel doesn't want Gaza to develop, and Israel doesn't want to resolve diplomatically the conflict. Mr. Indyk well knows that both the leadership in Damascus and the leadership in the Gaza have repeatedly made statements they're willing to settle the conflict in the June 1967 border. The record is fairly clear. In fact, it's unambiguously clear.

Every year, the United Nations General Assembly votes on a resolution entitled "Peaceful Settlement of the Palestine Question." And every year the vote is the same: it's the whole world on one side; Israel, the United States and some South Sea atolls and Australia on the other side. The vote this past year was 164-to-7. Every year since 1989--in 1989, the vote was 151-to-3, the whole world on one side, the United States, Israel and the island state of Dominica on the other side.

We have the Arab League, all twenty-two members of the Arab League, favoring a two-state settlement on the June 1967 border. We have the Palestinian Authority favoring that two-state settlement on the June 1967 border. We now have Hamas favoring that two-state settlement on the June 1967 border. The one and only obstacle is Israel, backed by the United States. That's the problem.

AMY GOODMAN: So, Ambassador Indyk, why doesn't Israel accept this ceasefire?

MARTIN INDYK: Look, Amy, I was invited on to talk about my book and the Gaza situation. I was not invited on to debate with Norman Finkelstein, and I'm not prepared to do that. So if you want to talk about the situation, I'm happy to do that, but I'm not here to be the representative of the government of Israel. You can easily invite somebody on to--

AMY GOODMAN: No, of course not. No, we're asking your opinion. I don't see you as the representative of Israel. But let me get your--

MARTIN INDYK: Well, why don't we focus on some other issues, like the American role in this or something that--

AMY GOODMAN: Very good point.

MARTIN INDYK: --can get us out of this ridiculous debate, in which he's just a propaganda spokesman for Hamas, you know.

So, Finkelstein correcting Indyk's lies makes him "just a propaganda spokesman for Hamas"?  Pretty typical of the ad hominem attacks that substitute for sound arguments by Israeli apologists.  It really angers them when someone else gets to speak.  Is it any wonder they are so opposed to negotiations?  So opposed to peace on any terms except utterly crushing the Palestinians?

And is it any wonder that their façade is finally starting to crumble?  And even Time magazine starts to notice that there's no there there?  Not just no moral there there in killing innocent women and children by the scores. But not even a strategic there there.   So much for the "pragmatists," the "hard-nosed realists," the "break a few eggs" crowd.

I conclude with a longer excerpt of the article on J Street and the reaction it has aroused:

Union of Reform Judaism President Eric Yoffie, writing in The Forward, said  J Street statements "could find no moral difference between the actions of Hamas and other Palestinian militants, who have launched more than 5,000 rockets and mortar shells at Israeli civilians in the past three years, and the long-delayed response of Israel."

But others say J Street, which has organized an online petition calling for "immediate and strong U.S.-led diplomatic efforts to urgently reinstate a meaningful cease-fire that ends all military operations, stops the rockets aimed at Israel and lifts the blockade of Gaza," has prompted such a strong response because the group is seen as having at least the potential of reaching a significant number of lawmakers on Capitol Hill - and the incoming Barack Obama administration - with a message that differs from that of the pro-Israel establishment.

"Other peace groups issued statements, but they're not seen as serious people," said the leader of a major pro-Israel group this week. "But J Street includes serious people with serious connections with the new administration, and people are very worried.  They don't have much power now, but there's a feeling that they could gain a lot of influence in the new Congress and with the new administration."

J Street's founder and president, Jeremy Ben-Ami, was unapologetic, saying his group's stance on an immediate cease-fire "has a really massive base of support in the Jewish community. The fallacy here is the argument that a military victory against an insurgent group actually is achievable. ... Even if Israel wipes out every single missile launcher and takes every Hamas activist into captivity, what then? There are whole new generations behind them."

Precisely.  Reality is closing in on Versailles.  War is not a recipe for peace.

Again there are demonstrations tomorrow in Washington, Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, Portland, OR, Sacramento, CA, and Urbana, Ill.    A new way opens by saying, "no!" to an old dead end.


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Superb piece, Paul. (4.00 / 4)
I was disappointed to see at Greenwald's blog that J-Street didn't actively oppose the atrocious resolution that passed the Senate, which among other outrages, praises Israel's humanitarian efforts in Gaza.

J-Street seems to be finding its voice, but it still needs to get bolder, it seems.


Yeah, It Still Needs Folks Like Us (4.00 / 6)
and it always will.

Any group that focuses on "being effective" inside the Beltway needs folks farther out who are... farther out.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Results (0.00 / 0)
I'm waiting to see results from J-Street's lobbying.  Thirteen days of bombing and a potential return of Netanyahu don't really encourage me to believe that Washington's support of the Israeli right have subsided much.  Until that time, J-Street is the Alan Colmes paper tiger to AIPAC's Sean Hannity.

[ Parent ]
There's A Pereptible Change (4.00 / 5)
if you wait for it to become an avalanche, you'll be buried by it.

That's how it is with exponential chance.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
The Rassumussen poll (4.00 / 4)
shows the country evenly divided on Israel's invasion of Gaza, and Dems overwhelmingly opposed (55-31.) Imagine what the numbers would be if the coverage were fair.

I'm no expert on the history of such polls, but as I recall, they're generally much more favorable to Israel's government.

Of course, that's the public. Congress lives in another world, but it suggests an opening.

http://www.rasmussenreports.co...


[ Parent ]
One problem with that analogy... (4.00 / 3)
J Street has only been in Washington since April;

AIPAC has been in Washington since 1953.

A better comparison is needed, please.


[ Parent ]
They're brand new... (4.00 / 3)
These people are going up against the AIPAC/Likudnik bloc, who have a lot more money, spooks, government support, ruthless efficiency and a fanatical devotion to the... no wait. To violent authoritarianism, is what I mean.

They started off very carefully, but as they see they have more support outside the Village, they seem to grow bigger huevos (sorry for the machismo reference, it's Friday or something).

I was surprised at the way Indyk shrunk away from real discourse in the DN segment. If he really believed the crap he was spouting, he wouldn't have become a shrinking violet. He's a professional diplo. He should be able to handle this without batting an eyelid. Diplos are as much professional liars as anything. So what gives with him? He knows he's wrong so he'll only deal with people on unquestioning terms, like most authoritarians.

There's a serious opening here. The AIPAC crowd can't defend their positions if anyone openly  questions them. This seems a bit of a change. They know they're wrong and they seem to see most people don't buy their crap this time.

Give J-Street a chance. If they stay on-message and ratchet up appropriately, they'll probably raise some real money off of this and they may have to grow into prominence faster than they had likely planned.



When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

-- Frederic Bastiat, "The Law", 1850


[ Parent ]
Let's hope so...and let's do what we can (4.00 / 5)
I heard the Indyk/Finkelstein interview last night, on the way back from a Democratic Party meeting.

Frankly, I was astonished at Indyk's transparent arrogance. Not so much the arrogance, mind you, as the transparency. I thought: What a long way we've come from Abba Eban, everybody's favorite British uncle. It was, quite frankly, like listening to von Ribbentrop denounce the provocations of the Polish government, and bemoan the unfortunate civilian casualties from Szczecin to Bialystok which could only have resulted from such unfortunate Polish intransigence.

If the worm is turning, no one will be happier than I am. In the meantime, though, there are dead to be mourned, and collaborators to be shamed. I trust none of us will neglect our duty.


Marching in Chicago (4.00 / 5)
Nice write-up.  Right now I'm in a downtown Chicago office building watching a massive pro-palestinian march make its way down Wacker to Michigan Avenue.  I'm not practiced at crowd size estimates, so I won't attempt one, but rest assured it is absolutely huge and incredibly inspiring to see.  

Anti-Israel /= Pro-Palestinian (4.00 / 2)
If someone is against the invasion then are they pro-palestinian? I don't think so.

As much as I might dislike the Isreal response, I would find it very difficult to actively support people who use suicide bombers and send rockets into civilian areas.  

So the demonstration is actually troubling to me and not inspiring.

McCain on the minimum wage


[ Parent ]
Most Palestinians aren't suicide bombers (4.00 / 3)
and most of them aren't firing rockets anywhere.

Pro-Palestinian is not pro-Hamas.  


[ Parent ]
Likewise, (4.00 / 3)
"Pro-Israel" is not necessarily "Pro-Likud" or "neoconservative" or "pro-making-palestinian-lives-a-living-hell", if J Street is any indication.  

[ Parent ]
Oversimplified (4.00 / 6)
Since this crisis started, I've learned a lot more about Islamist movements in Palestine, and I prefer Hamas to most of what is waiting in the shadows to replace it. And I suspect if you gathered 10 of the top independent, non-neoconservative-aligned, non-Israel-water-carrying Middle Eastern specialists and asked them, they would all agree (see "Al Qaeda overjoyed" QH).



[ Parent ]
You are absolutely right. (4.00 / 2)
In fact, when Hamas came to power, I thought it was a good sign for future peace. (I was wrong.) Unlike the PLO, Hamas could actually enforce a cease-fire. And unlike the PLO, Hamas seemed to care about their people. Hamas should be thought of as any political body, in the process of constant redefinition. It's not as if Israel has anything against Islamism. They at one time preferred it to nationalism. And they deal and scheme with Saudi Arabia.

[ Parent ]
We're in a situation now in some parts of the Islamic world where there is not a non-Islamist option (4.00 / 2)
Here's a recent article about Somalia from the NYT:

NAIROBI, Kenya - Somalia's Islamist militants, long a bane of the country's weakening government, are now officially fighting one another.

On Sunday, a powerful, newly militarized Islamist group declared a "holy war" against other Islamist factions, and it seems to have the muscle to back up its intentions. Over the weekend, the group, the Ahlu-Sunna Wal-Jama, killed more than 10 fighters from the Shabab, a rival Islamist faction known as one of Somalia's toughest.

The group issued a statement calling on its followers to "prepare themselves for jihad against these heretic groups," referring to some of the other, more hard-line Islamist factions, and "to restore stability and harmony in Somalia and achieve a genuine government of national unity."
....

An episode of grave desecration may have been what started it. In early December, fighters from the Shabab, one of Somalia's most militant Islamic groups, ransacked the graves of moderate Islamist clerics who had been buried in Kismaayo, a town the Shabab controls. On Sunday, moderate Islamist leaders brought this up and condemned the Shabab for such un-Islamic behavior.

You have to understand that there are at least two contending visions of Islamism in Somalia, and the US should make a choice about who they want to deal with, because those are the only viable choices there are. Given what's just been described, a refusal to deal with religious parties at all in Somalia - or to differentiate among them - is just ridiculous. You might as well declare a policy of Isolationism and go home.

In fact, it's my understanding from other readings that the moderates referenced in this article are the remainders of the Islamists who the Bush administration toppled when they encouraged Ethiopia to invade. Ethiopia is now leaving and the transitional government it established "controls just a few city blocks in a country almost as big as Texas" - leaving the original guys we threw out of power - or the Shabab outfit which is far worse.

I see a direct analogy to the situation in Gaza, though I suspect that Israel and Egypt are holding out hope for Fatah to still be viable there.

public flogging

In November 2008, Al Shabab organized a military parade in a former military camp in the capital, where they carried out a public flogging (above) of two men sentenced by an Islamic court over a family dispute. Al Shabab also earned the enmity of many when it organized the stoning of 13-year-old Asha Ibrahim Dhuhulow in 2008 who had been raped by three armed men.


[ Parent ]
i agree (0.00 / 0)
but it depends on the way in which "pro-israel" is understood:

pro-zionist (aipac)
pro-israeli state ("serious" people like J-Street)
pro-people in israel and palestine (Jews Against The Occupation", Neve Shalom / wahat-al-salam and many others)

Obviously there is overlap among both categories and supporters of the groups and the groups themselves, but I would hope that the last category get defined as the progressive position on palestine/israel and other conflict situations like sri lanka (which should be in the news this week, but maybe i should be glad that it isn't)- the kind that believe in human rights for all people.


[ Parent ]
"As much as I might dislike the Isreal response, I would find it very difficult to actively support people who use suicide bombers and send rockets into civilian areas. " (4.00 / 3)
Interestingly, they weren't sending rockets (which have killed under 20 people, i think, in the last 8 YEARS) while Gaza was being starved to death in order to overturn a democratic election whose results Israel and the U.S. governments didn't like so much that they reportedly stoked a civil war among Palestinians.  Hamas only started sending them again when the Israeli government broke the ceasefire because Hamas was building a tunnel to kidnap Israeli soldiers.  So you tell me who put the civilians on both sides in harm's way here.

I say this despite that I probably couldn't sit at a table with Hamas (though as johnalive points out, as far as rightwing islamist groups go, they're far from the most offensive to a genuinely human-focused sensibility), the Israeli government reportedly did while it sponsored it to stoke infighting among Palestinians.  While it was consolidating the occupation of land and some categories of people within and outside of Israel were defiend as less than full citizens (i.e. human).  

I mean, if someone came to your house and took it over and told you to live somewhere else, wouldn't you be a little angry?  It's not a metaphor - I literally heard this story  today from a friend about her husband's family and their house a few years ago.  I have no idea who they support, but if that were me, I would be pretty pissed, regardless of whether I'm Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Arab, Palestinian, Indian, American, Bangladeshi, or from Atlantis.

But I'm getting too far into the blame game (which has gone on long enough in this conflict): let's assess responsibility on the basis of the historical facts to the best that we can ascertain them, not on the basis of what will confirm our preconceived beliefs.  Then lets focus on one-on-one human-to-human interaction so we can get over ideas like "the Palestinians are all terrorists", "Israel never targets civilians", "all Israelis are against peace until they take all the land" etc. - these are oversimplified fictions that detract from a proper analysis, and if you're directly involved (i.e. you don't have family or friends there), then you owe it to the people who do to try and understand what's going on if you're going to comment one way or another.  And if I'm wrong about something - tell me - let's really get into this until we get to the bottom of what's going on on the basis of what we can determine to have actually happened.


[ Parent ]
sorry "if you're directly involved" should read "if you're NOT directly involved" (0.00 / 0)
really sorry!

[ Parent ]
Great Post Paul (4.00 / 1)
I agree things are begining to change. there isn't the usual kneejerk support. I think it has to do a lot with the last 8 years, once americans had the lies of our own government mushed in our faces we became less willing to accept everything we hear on the TV. And the blogs have played a major role in getting the facts out also.

Then there is the economics of continued financial suppport of Israel. This country just doesn't have the money anymore, and congress and Obama know it.  


Pro-Peace Rally in NYC on Sunday (4.00 / 1)
Hey all, check this out:
http://www.facebook.com/home.p...

money quote, and why I'm going:

"We invite individuals who favor an immediate ceasefire, oppose the occupation, support the two state solution, and who believe in the rights of both Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace and security to join in action against those who justify violence and hatred on either side, and against those who claim a monopoly on representing our voices in this matter."


Sorry, Paul (0.00 / 0)
Demerits are in order for linking to ANSWER. What's next? A Free Mumia post?

"Don't take much, does it, elected Democrats, to get your balls tucked up." Cf.

god forbid a free mumia post ;) (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Not My Preferred Choice, Believe Me (0.00 / 0)
but you go to peace with the anti-war movement you have, not the anti-war movement you'd like to have.

And I think that the failure of ANSWER to grow noticeably over the years shows that the vast majority of people who go to its demonstrations feel much the same as I do.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I wonder why Finkelstein's never been allowed on mainstream tv... (4.00 / 1)
He's one of the best I/P debaters and second to none in discrediting the work of Israel's Hasbara operatives. I don't even bother watching any of the I/P debates held by corporate news, because they are painful mismatches by design.

Here's a great debate from a few years ago between Finkelstein and former Israeli Foreign Minister Schlomo Ben-Ami http://www.democracynow.org/20...

Impressively respectful, frank and substantive. Rather than play the usual Hasbara games, Ben-Ami (a supporter of J Street) essentially admitted that Israel's occupation and colonization is in violation of international law:

What Dr. Finkelstein said here about international law, I want to make it clear, it is important, it is vital for a civilized community of nations to have an axis of principles based on international law, around which to run the affairs of our chaotic world. It is very important. It is vital, etc. But at the same time, when you go into political issues, and you need to settle differences, historical differences, differences that have to do with political rights, security concerns, historical memories, etc., it is almost impossible to do things on the basis of international law, but rather, on something that is as close as possible to the requirements of international law. The very fact that, as Dr. Finkelstein rightly says, the Palestinians were ready to make this or that concession is the reflection of them understanding that there is no viability, there is no possibility really to reach an agreement that says let us apply automatically and rigidly the requirements of international law.

Paul, I rarely post in your Democracy Now! diaries but always eagerly read them. They are some of the best stuff in the progressive blogosphere, imo.


Thanks (4.00 / 1)
A very interesting excerpt.

Somehow or another, I had forgotten this encounter.  It's very good to be reminded of it.

And, of course, though I wish it were not so, he makes a very good point.  But I would rather put it a bit differently--saying that international law is incredibly important, even when it is not strictly adhered to.

I believe we should do everything possible to strengthen it, all the moreso because we know it will be treated as Ben-Ami describes in practice.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Yes, I agree it is a good point (0.00 / 0)
It's also a very instructive means of showing which is the moderate, reasonable party here, and which is the extreme. Israelis in the government who might truly want peace, such as Shlomo Ben-Ami eight years ago, are surrounded by extremists and a voting public that wants to hear about national interest, not international law.  

[ Parent ]
The blogospheres "Gaza Anthem" (0.00 / 0)
This has been going around.  It is heart-warming that someone is doing something in these dark bitter days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

WE WILL NOT GO DOWN (Song for Gaza)
(Composed by Michael Heart)
Copyright 2009

A blinding flash of white light
Lit up the sky over Gaza tonight
People running for cover
Not knowing whether they're dead or alive

They came with their tanks and their planes
With ravaging fiery flames
And nothing remains
Just a voice rising up in the smoky haze

We will not go down
In the night, without a fight
You can burn up our mosques and our homes and our schools
But our spirit will never die
We will not go down
In Gaza tonight

Women and children alike
Murdered and massacred night after night
While the so-called leaders of countries afar
Debated on who's wrong or right

But their powerless words were in vain
And the bombs fell down like acid rain
But through the tears and the blood and the pain
You can still hear that voice through the smoky haze

We will not go down
In the night, without a fight
You can burn up our mosques and our homes and our schools
But our spirit will never die
We will not go down
In Gaza tonight



Israel's targeting of education there -- (0.00 / 0)
Guardian -- In Gaza, the schools are dying too -- http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl...

A new word emerged from the carnage in Gaza this week: "scholasticide" - the systematic destruction by Israeli forces of centres of education dear to Palestinian society, as the ministry of education was bombed, the infrastructure of teaching destroyed, and schools across the Gaza strip targeted for attack by the air, sea and ground offensives.

"Learn, baby, learn" was a slogan of the black rights movement in America's ghettoes a generation ago, but it also epitomises the idea of education as the central pillar of Palestinian identity - a traditional premium on schooling steeled by occupation, and something the Israelis "cannot abide... and seek to destroy", according to Dr Karma Nabulsi, who teaches politics at St Edmund Hall, Oxford.  ...

And they've now admitted there were no shots fired from the UN school the other day -- they were lying, as usual -- http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/s... -- "UN: IDF officers admitted there was no gunfire from Gaza school which was shelled"


Breathing our own second hand smoke? (0.00 / 0)
I've just read the DN transcript and watched the vid and think you need to find a voice for your Israel critique that doesn't drive you into Normal Finkelstein's arms.  Israel is clearly making a big mistake but the Palestinian peace offensive is a fantasy.

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