On the Lack of Left-Wing Pressure On Obama

by: Chris Bowers

Mon Feb 16, 2009 at 15:05


Back on Friday, John Judis and Glenn Greenwald both published articles decrying the lack of concerted, effective, institutional left-wing pressure on President Obama. The specific context of their complaints was the smaller than needed size of the stimulus / jobs package. The argument was that if there had been more left-wing pressure for a larger package, the stimulus might have been a couple hundred billion dollars larger, and not included the alternative minimum tax fix. However, because so many progressive and left-wing organizations spent the last year dedicating themselves to supporting candidate, and now President, Obama, such pressure was lacking, and the stimulus was inadequate.

I posted a response to Judis and Greenwald, somewhat flippantly arguing that coordinated, left-wing pressure on the Obama administration for a larger stimulus was not possible due to new societal organizational patterns. I thought about the Greenwald and Judis articles quite a bit over the weekend, and, upon further reflection, I now think that my response was too generalized. There are reasons why left-wing pressure on the Obama administration is lacking, but those reasons are more variegated and specific than the blanket reasoning I provided. Given that creating effective left-wing pressure on any administration, not just the Obama administration, is something in which I am very interested, more thought on this subject is required. As such, in the extended entry, I attempt to provide a more comprehensive list of reasons for the lack of effective left-wing pressure on the Obama administration.

Chris Bowers :: On the Lack of Left-Wing Pressure On Obama
In addition to my original thesis, here are four three other mitigating factors:

  1. There is more left-wing pressure than the Judis-Greenwald thesis credits. For starters, there is a major flaw in the Greenwald-Judis thesis: the left actually has successfully pressured the Obama administration into making concessions during the last four weeks. Last month, Democratic Senators forced the Obama administration to remove business tax cuts from the stimulus. Congressional minority caucuses forced the Obama administration to take the census away from Judd Gregg, which led, at least in part, to Judd Gregg withdrawing his nomination to Commerce Secretary. When the final stimulus bill came out, Senator Dodd successfully inserted executive pay legislation in the stimulus that the Obama administration had opposed, mass transit funding increased significantly, and Buy American provisions in the stimulus were included.

    While some many not consider this adequate pressure or adequate success, it is simply not true that the left was completely unsuccessful at pushing the Obama administration over the last four weeks. The issue at hand is one of degree, not of absolutes. There has been left-wing pressure, and there have been concessions as a result of this pressure. The question is not whether such pressure or concessions exist, but whether one considers their amounts adequate or not.

  2. Republicans still defining the debate: Republicans have continued their media dominance, even though they are now a rump regional party. They are still defining the debate, not progressives. If anything, that is demonstrative of a lack of pressure and counter-infrastructure to the national media, not to a lack of pressure and counter-infrastructure to the Obama administration.

    Further, as is commonly the case, whenever Republicans dominate debate, they are good at making people choose sides. Even I, while perceived as a particularly vehement left-wing critic of President Obama, feel a strong urge to help him out whenever Congressional Republicans open their mouths. As such, continued Republican media dominance pushed more of the left into President Obama's camp than any "cheerleading squad" could ever accomplish.

  3. Not many left-wingers upset with President Obama right now: Another factor is the lack of mass left-wing pressure on the Obama administration is that the amount of left-wingers unhappy with the Obama administration compose a small percentage of the overall population. For example, The latest Daily Kos tracking poll showed President Obama with only a 7% unfavorable rating among Democrats, a 20% unfavorable rating among Independents, and a 22% percent unfavorable rating among other non-Republicans. While no data is available to verify this, it is likely that a minority of these Dems / Inds and Others are upset with Obama because they think he hasn't gone far enough to the left.

    At the most, we are probably talking about 5% of the population that currently finds itself unhappy with President Obama because he has moved too far right. This is a problem of which I have been acutely aware for some time. As I wrote back when I was appearing across numerous national news outlets as a left-wing critic of Obama's transition, "if I have become one of the go-to interviews for progressive dissatisfaction with Obama's transition, then [probably] there isn't much progressive dissatisfaction with Obama's transition." This is also connected to the problem where, even though there is no escaping ideology, not many Americans conceptualize politics in overt, thoroughgoing ideological terms. Conscious, coherent self-reflection on ideology simply isn't very common among the electorate.

    (Update: In comments, Glenn Greenwald clarifies that he was not accusing the leadership of progressive organizations of bad faith, but simply dealing with organizational reality:

    You're slightly mischaracterizing what I wrote.  I didn't say that these groups wish they could be more anti-Obama but are cynically exploiting pro-Obama sentiment.  What I said is what they said:  that they are limited in their ability to push back against or criticize Obama because their new members/donors/readers, etc. are very pro-Obama and won't tolerate opposition to his agenda.

    I don't think it's corrupt or bad faith of these organizations.  They're dealing with the basic realities of having organizations like this.  And it's not necessarily bad that they are constrained by the views of their members / donors / readers.

    I agree with this, and have removed the fourth bullet point from this post as a result. While I read Glenn's original post differently, I see no reason to continue disagreeing with him now that he has made his intention clear.)

I don't mean for these three factors to replace my original thesis, but rather to augment it. Rarely is something complex the result of a single factor.

Now, even with all this said, just as they have consistently done for the last eleven years, new Internet based left-wing organizations will continue develop over the next four years. Some will morph into fairly consistent left-wing pressure groups on the Obama administration and Congressional Democrats. However, they will continue to have uneven growth rates. They will rise to prominence more as the result of a single major fight where they operated as a hub of activity--the Jena six (Color of Change), the Clinton impeachment (MoveOn.org), the Howard Dean campaign (Democracy for America), the Florida recount (Talking Points Memo), the Obama campaign (Organizing for America)--rather than because of a slow build around a coherent, manifesto-like agenda. That is just the way of things in the new world where we all live. Hell, maybe that is how it always was, even back in the 1930's:

In 1934, there was a wave of strikes. Huey Long's Share Our Wealth movement began. In a year, it had organized 27,000 clubs across the country. Francis Townsend organized a movement for old age pensions.

Even the left-wing pressure of the 1930's that John Judis calls for in the above passage was organized around short-term, specific fights, and then either quickly dissipated or morphed into far less radical institutions. After some major victories, the labor movement purged its radicals, and became far more "establishment." Huey Long's movement dissipated almost immediately after his assassination. Once Social Security was passed, how much more did we really hear from Francis Townsend?

We didn't get a large enough stimulus, but that wasn't because of a total lack of left-wing pressure of the sort that we supposedly had back in the old days. There was left-wing pressure and, rather than generalized problems with Obama cheerleading squads and the bad faith leaders of these squads, there were specific reasons why we didn't get a larger stimulus: ongoing Republicans media dominance, bad Democratic negotiating tactics, center-right Obama administration appointees drafting the stimulus, and the timing of this fight so recently after the election. Every fight will have its own specific character along these line. In some instances, new, powerful left-wing institutions will emerge as a result of these fights. While that did not happen in this case, such a specific failure should not lead to a generalized conclusion about the state of the American left. Instead, as always, it means that it is time to pick ourselves up, brush ourselves off, and move onto the next fight.


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The time to exert that pressure was in 2006 and (4.00 / 3)
2007 by supporting a truly progressive candidate.  Instead, many bloggers sat on their hands and ended up supporting Obama when it was Clinton v. him, fully undersntading that Obama was slightly left of center.

Moving Obama left by blogging dos not seem very realistic.

A better tact is moving Obama's supporters left by focusing on the aspects of Obama that are left, thereby using the faith in Obama to open eyes to left thought.

In the end, much of Obama's support is personal.  His deepest supporters would support cutting social security, especially if Obama demonized baby boomers.  Fortunately, I think Obama will not gut social security or medicare.  He may raise taxes on it (up to 250,000) and make some cuts.

If Obama "moves Left," it will be because he decides to do so based on events.    


I don't think that is all of it (4.00 / 5)
As much as I am in favor of supporting progressives in primaries as a means of changing the dynamic, that is not a complete explanation for how to change the government. For example, primary campaigns do nothing to change the media, and have limited effect as accountability mechanisms the move time elapses since they occurred.

Sure, a more progressive candidate would have helped, but it wasn't the only solution. And besides, I continue to insist that there was no clearly progressive and viable alternative in that primary.

But seriosuly--let's not get into the primary wars again.


[ Parent ]
It's not the primary wars and (4.00 / 2)
I'm okay with doing the work you suggest.

As for your position that there was no clearly progressive and viable alternative in that primary, I guess that is where we fundamentally differ.  The netroots gave it way to Obama for nothing and now they complain that he thinks we were easy.  You canot elect a left of center person and expect him to be left.  Obama believes his fundamental views, and that includes Hamilton Project economics, Larry Summers, and Geitner.

It's not primary wars, but fundamental politics.  The netroots and the left had no clear candidate.

(I found your neutrality because "was no clearly progressive and viable alternative in that primary" to be a cop out at the time, but that's me.  I have no doubt you sincerely felt that then and feel that now.  We disagreed in 2007 and disagree now on that.  Like Obama says, we can disagree without being disagreeable.)  

I think it is a fantasy to "push Obama left" as people think they can do.  To date, I see little evidence that he is pushed left in any appreciable way by bloggers.   See, e.g., FISA.  At best, you might have an impact on the margins.  I think Obama wil move left because events, the increasing depression, will force him to do so.  He will do it after other methods fail.  He's insticts are to uphold and reform the system.  It is only after that fails that he will be forced to try other solutions.  And there is no guarantee that he wil move left.

Can Congress people push him left?  Sometimes.  But the Progressive Caucus is weak.  Pelosi is the farthest left person with real power and many in the netroots diss her without much thought. And most of Congress is center or right.  It took a colaition of progressives, moderates and a few center-right folks to pass the stimulus.

As a means of changing people's minds and creating communities, blogs serve a good purpose.

But with Obama, what you see is what you get.  I see little possibility of pushing him left through the power of blogs.  

As for other parts of the "progressive infrastructure," I think Greenwald has a point.   MoveOn, for example, seems tied to Obama.  If they push, they lose all the people who support Obama first and have very little, if any  political consciousness.

And Obama has little to fear from the left with the Nader lesson of 2000 in people's memories.  No matter what, Obama will be the nominee in 2012.  There's little way to really pressure him.

In the end, I think we are at the mercy of Obama's choices to a large degree.  

Labor unions, on the other hand, have more power.

So, I'm all for doing what you have done.  I like your work for the most part and Open Left has become a
"loyal Left opposition" part of the Obama coalition.  It's even fine to keep trying to push Obama left.  It can't hurt.  I just do not see it as being sucessful beyond where Obama would go anyway, but I'm clearly capable of erior and could be totally wrong.  I hope I am.

Take care.  Liek I said earlier, I enjoy your writing and often agree with you.  Just not always.
   


[ Parent ]
this implies that obama is unaffected by other people or by (0.00 / 0)
events, something that i wouldn't believe to be true about anyone.  the point is not that obama will change his mind if a progressive blogger manages to say something that gets through the white house filter and is heard by obama, but rather that obama will change his mind if the world around him fundamentally changes; if it becomes difficult for him to follow center-left economic doxa without facing serious pushback, if supporting an expansion of the afghanistan war will imperil his congressional majority in 2 years, etc.  

[ Parent ]
No it does not imply that. (4.00 / 1)
I'm okay with pushback.  It implies that the progressive infrastructure and blogs are weak in real political impact.

[ Parent ]
It's not a matter of (4.00 / 3)
finding a more progressive candidate per se. It would have been equally important to make all candidates keenly aware that they stand to lose progressive support if they don't respect progressive positions.

From early on, a problem with Obama was -- as Krugman pointed out -- he only too often deviated into Republican talking points. Yet at those moments, so-called progressives nonetheless rallied behind him as if those deviations were of no consequence whatever to them. As Krugman also pointed out, that devotion to Obama seemed to resemble nothing so much as a personality cult, not any dedication to the progressive principles these progressives claimed to care about.

I think we are now seeing how allowing personality to trump policy can do long term harm to a movement.

Because progressives in the blogosphere and elsewhere typically represent the leading edge of progressive sentiment and direction, it is of little surprise that the larger mass of people who style themselves progressives in the voting population should come to support Obama so uncritically, and without any sense that he might be far less an agent of progressive change than they are fantasizing.

And turning around the larger population of self-described progressives -- who certainly represent the lion's share of Obama's core financial and other support -- is the real task facing progressive thinkers and activists. It is pretty unthinkable that Obama and his political advisers will have the slightest care about accommodating progressives if they show no sign of letting up in their support in the quantities they really measure in their spreadsheets: money and votes. Sadly, to this day, even among those progressive thought leaders, one must search long and hard to find someone who on a given day might put down their pom-poms and wonder aloud whether Obama is really fighting for them. You are certainly right that if you are considered a go-to guy for progressive dissent, we are well screwed.

If the activists and thinkers among progressives are only now coming out of their stupor to question some of Obama's decisions, how many weeks, months, or years might we be away from turning the progressive segment of the population into doubting what they have for so long been assured Obama would deliver -- progressive change?  


[ Parent ]
I agree with much that (0.00 / 0)
you say.

This especially is true:

I think we are now seeing how allowing personality to trump policy can do long term harm to a movement.


[ Parent ]
correct (4.00 / 1)
From the "Duh" Files: Effusive Political Adoration Does Not Lead to Social Change

Progressives absolutely frightened me with their effusive endorsement of Obama.  Although I expected critical thinkers to resist "candidate-worship," progressives absolutely treated Obama as a religious figure.  As such, they fell victim to his cunning ability to define himself in sufficiently broad terms in order to satisfy many groups who project their meaning upon him.  

The Left believed Obama was the "true" progressive antidote to the "triangulating" Clintons and the "monster" named Bush. Blacks thought we had found some modicum of racial justice. Women's groups cheered his silky male "feminism."  Educated elites had "one of their own" for whom to vote.  The "middle class" ended up believing he would save "the middle class" (after much resistence early on).  And the young voters had someone in the White House without the name "Bush" or "Clinton."

But these groups unified around electing Obama and defeating the GOP - not around a coherent belief in a defined set of progressive policies.  That is precisely why we have not witnessed an engaged Left.  Progressives are either still worshipping Obama, defending his right-leaning policies, or confused about where to turn as their wonderful narrative shatters.  Many of his other supporters are content because they were not  progressives in the first place.  

With respect to Judis (and to a lesser extent, Greenwald), I am surprised he only recently became as vocal as he now is.  By contrast, his earlier take on Obama was highly upbeat.  But nothing really has changed to justify this shift. I always doubted that the Left would do anything to pressure Obama, because his election was not a result of pressure, demands, and vetting.  Instead, it operated more like a spiritual movement that eliminated any "nonbelievers," such as Krugman, Clinton, and Tavis Smiley. It's hard to shift from praise to pressure. But maybe the Left will find a voice before it's too late. I doubt it.

Unlike others, I would not blame the media for this. The media runs with whatever is popular, and Obama-worship sold a lot of papers and generated traffic. At some point, creating battles for the valiant leader to fight will generate even more revenue for news outlets. So they have to give counsel to his enemies. I argued a long time ago that the media will support anything for profit.  Although it boosted Obama, it bashed Gore, Carter, and Dukakis.  It also supported Bush in his two elections. I am not surprised that it is giving attention to Republicans. Why not? This can make things "exciting" for readers. Everyone loves a "fight."

On the "lateness" of the Judis article, see: From the "Duh" Files: Effusive Political Adoration Does Not Lead to Social Change


[ Parent ]
Progressive support for BHO came late (0.00 / 0)
I disagree that progressives (and particularly progressive blogosphere types) jumped on the Obama bandwagon to the exclusion of more progressive candidates.

I think most progressives here and in political blogs chose Obama when it was clearly a him-or-her battle with Hillary.

And it's hard to complain about that, given that neither of them is overly progressive.

Karl in Drexel Hill, PA


[ Parent ]
And that may have been... (4.00 / 4)
The first major mistake made by the netroots folks who moved to Obama. So many assumed that because he was "not Clinton", that it automatically meant that he was to the left of Hillary Clinton when the real evidence clearly showed there was little difference between them. They expected a "progressive revolution", and I do find Greenwald's argument to be true that they may have let their feelings on "Obama" the persona/brand override their judgment on ideology and issues.

While I do think there's value in keeping pressure on President Obama to shift leftward, I do agree that one step we must take to make it happen is to convince other Obama supporters to start thinking values/ideology/issues.

Yes, Virginia, there are progressives in Nevada.


[ Parent ]
Good luck with that. (4.00 / 1)
Those people who were and remain "enthralled" with Obama say more about themselves than they do Obama.  These are the same people off which scammers and schemers make a living.

I haven't been a happy Democrat for 30 years, and there is no place for me to go. They know it, I know it, and this is the sad truth of it all.

Howard Dean was the closest to an alternative to the one two party system to come along, and we saw what they did/do to him.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  


[ Parent ]
wouldn't you be more effective in (0.00 / 0)
either convincing Obama supporters they were wrong or pressuring Obama if you were aware that his proposal was to tax income OVER $250,000 not UP TO $250,000.  

Of course you are free to believe he will do the opposite of his campaign promises, but it seems to say more about you than him.

New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.


[ Parent ]
My impression was (0.00 / 0)
that the social security cutoff would be raised.  Right now, at about 100,000 or maybe less, people stop paying social security tax.

Your comment quiblles. It does not say anything about me, other than I have not memorized all his positions, if indeed you are correct.

he spoke of possibly exempting those between 100,000 and 250,000.  Possibly.

But besides that, the implicit insult to me says more about you.

WEhy on earth would I seek to convince those in thrall to a man?  People need to have an open mind.

My example was actually pro-Obama.  I said he would not screw people on social security.  

Apparently we are talking past one another.    


[ Parent ]
Good luck on changing OT Obama supporters... (0.00 / 0)
Of course you are free to believe he will do the opposite of his campaign promises, but it seems to say more about you than him.

Starting with the flip flop on FISA, there is plenty of evidence that he has done just that.  Past behavior is a predictor of future behavior, yet you make this comment.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  


[ Parent ]
That post was so techno-geeky (0.00 / 0)
I didn't even know how to respond. Thanks for the clarification. :)

The Politics of Bruno S.


Process (4.00 / 1)
I think this essay demonstrates the power of the new interactive media. A thesis was put forth, got feedback and was rethought and refined, all in the space of a few days.

Even in the era of the news weeklies this would have taken weeks.

This same dynamic will be used to help the left consolidate its views on what it wants the Obama admin to do that it is failing to do. This is all to the good.

People are still feeling out their capabilities and lines of communication.

Where pressure needs to be applied is to the MSM. The studies which have come out about the imbalance of GOP talking heads and the lack of actual economists on air shows that the left isn't being heard even if they were more cohesive.

I think it is up to the progressives in congress to make this point, especially to the broadcast media. This sector has long depended upon congress for favorable tax breaks and waivers of anti-monopoly rules. The quid pro quo was obvious, the poster boy being Murdoch. These big media firms need to be reminded that there is a new balance of power at the FCC and eventually at the SEC and FTC. This doesn't have to be as heavy handed as when a GOP flack was put in charge of public broadcasting, but there are other ways to make the point.

Just as the GOP has yet so adjust to being out of power, so will the MSM have to learn that they can't support only the opposition without some consequences.

Policies not Politics


The point is not (4.00 / 3)
that there hasn't been any left pressure.  There has been quite a bit, and it's even had some successes (albeit minor ones) as you note.

The point is that compared to the power that's in inherent in the Beltway, it just isn't as effective.  We have NO power comparable to theirs, capable of making Obama renege to the left on right or center-right campaign pledges.  Yet such pressures the other way abound, and are successful, and we have nothing like that.

That is just reality.

The point is to stop fretting about Obama, what he really thinks, what we really think of him, all that noise and just get out there and fight for what we want, and hope we can pull him along.  What we think about Obama just ISN'T THAT IMPORTANT now.  It was important during the campaign and too many are still stuck in campaign mode, unfortunately.



sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


Well said. (0.00 / 0)
The point is fighting for what we believe is right and letting the chips fall where they may.

Overfocus on Obama just feeds into personality over policy.  

Paul R. has written many excellent diaries about changing the discourse.  (Chris also).  I see the blogs as key to that.

Chris pointed that out in his response about the problem of media.  

The progressive blogs can be important.  I see that as key.  Changing people's minds.  


[ Parent ]
+1000 (4.00 / 1)
> Just get out there and fight for what we want, and hope we can pull him along.  

Amen.  

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  


[ Parent ]
Excellent post… (0.00 / 0)
...especially the part about the GOP continuing to define the debate. That's why their spin always seems like it's working even when there's clearly a profound disconnect between Republican stonewalling and what recent polls suggest the public is sensing needs to be done.

I dunno...first Nate Silver at Sirota and now Judis and Greenwald coming at us from what I'm sure they think is a more radical position. Geez, I can't stand quoting conservative pundit George Will, but all these empty-headed swipes fit what Will accused Sam Donaldson of being on Stephanopoulos yesterday: "A pyromaniac in a field of straw men."


"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams


I think that Nate Silver's (4.00 / 3)
comments are quite different in kind from Greenwald's and even Judis' comments.

Silver does not want a progressive left pushing Obama.  He wants followers of "experts," apparently those in the Obama admin.


[ Parent ]
Exactly… (4.00 / 1)
...I thought I addressed Silver and Greenwald as opposite poles of empty-headedness. Maybe that wasn't clear.

"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams

[ Parent ]
It shouldn't be "clear," because it's not so (0.00 / 0)
Greenwald has done stellar work on Constitutional issues.

And I don't read Silver regularly, but the post itself was interesting. So I have to read more of him.

We're not looking at two empty headed people at all, or a polarity.

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  


[ Parent ]
Hmm… (0.00 / 0)
...seems I can't win for losing on this one. My post said nothing about all their work, just the positions stated, i.e., Silver vs. Sirota and Judis & Greenwald's allegedly more "radical" stance. In any event, Chris's post is still excellent.

"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams

[ Parent ]
Silver's money quote (0.00 / 0)
But if someone wants to marshal an army to fight a battle of wills while playing fast and loose with the truth and using some of the same demagogic precepts that the right wing does, I am not particularly interested in that. In fact, I think it is acutely dangerous.

Seems a rather unexceptionable position, taken in the abstract. (I left the links out so as not to start yet another war.)

In fact, I don't see how you can run an issues-based movement without some sort of basic methodological commitment like that.

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  


[ Parent ]
Shoving Obama left (4.00 / 9)
1. I loved the techno-geeky post, but I wasn't at all sure of the effect it would have. Indeed, in this post Chris cites a number of examples of organizational growth, going back to the 1930s, that don't seem to rely on the techno-geeky aspect at all. (Yes, I know that many of them grew on "the Internet," but I read Chris's post as saying that new forms of relationship would grow, and so far as I can tell, they haven't. The famously socially networked Obama campaign, looking at it from the outside, seemed old-fashioned in its top down, approach.)

2. I've never been able to prove, one way or another, the effect that the blogosphere had on the Bush administration, but  I feel that we basically succeeded in throwing a lot of sand in its gears. His claimed mandate in 2004 evaporated quickly; thanks in no small part to TPM, he couldn't loot Social Security; and thanks in no small part to FDL, the quasi-legal shenanigans of the Bush regime became conventional wisdom; and thanks as well to the 1000s of long-tail bloggers who propagated and transformed all that material as well.

I look at "shoving Obama left" as a project of similar scale and scope as taking down the Bush administration (not to draw an equivalence between the two except for the sake of scoping the project). So, the level of effort is a massive daily grind over the course of three years. Making it more difficult is that Obama's not a Republican or a crazy person. Making it easier is that times will be very tough, and, as Krugman says, Obama's going to have to "rise" to them.

3. It would be really, really nice if the left could bring itself to focus on bread and butter issues. Things like housing, single payer, debt slavery. The injustice of things as they are stands out much more clearly that way. People really do understand that Washington (let's call it) really did give away two trillion dollars to Hank Paulson's golfing buddies, while giving them nothing at all. It would be especially nice if the left could do this, since an obvious alternative scenario to Democratic flaccidity and caution is right wing populism, fueled by resentment (and racism) in the face of national and economic decline. The Republicans signalled, with Palin, that they were going in that direction. To me, shoving Obama left is the same as focusing on bread and butter issues; I'm all for shared sacrifice as long as it's understood that since real wages have been flat for 30 years and my 401(k) is gone, I've already done my sharing. So shoving Obama left helps him, helps the Democrats, saves the country. More of it, please!

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  


Thanks, Lambert. (4.00 / 6)
I especially appreciate this:

It would be really, really nice if the left could bring itself to focus on bread and butter issues. Things like housing, single payer, debt slavery. The injustice of things as they are stands out much more clearly that way. People really do understand that Washington (let's call it) really did give away two trillion dollars to Hank Paulson's golfing buddies, while giving them nothing at all. It would be especially nice if the left could do this, since an obvious alternative scenario to Democratic flaccidity and caution is right wing populism, fueled by resentment (and racism) in the face of national and economic decline. The Republicans signalled, with Palin, that they were going in that direction. To me, shoving Obama left is the same as focusing on bread and butter issues; I'm all for shared sacrifice as long as it's understood that since real wages have been flat for 30 years and my 401(k) is gone, I've already done my sharing. So shoving Obama left helps him, helps the Democrats, saves the country. More of it, please!

This was one of my biggest critiques of Obama during the primaries, and it's something about him that still frustrates me sometimes. It's easy to be caught up in the emotion of "hope" and "change" without really knowing what kind of change we're hoping for. I was relieved in the last 60 days of the campaign, when Obama finally started talking specifics on the economy.

Frankly, Obama needs to start making connections and talking specifics again. Explain why universal health care will help stimulate the economy. Explain why it's important to keep people in their homes. Explain why all the spending we need to do is investment in the economy and NOT the "wasteful pork" the GOP makes it out to be.



Yes, Virginia, there are progressives in Nevada.


[ Parent ]
I'll ditto that. (4.00 / 5)
Instead of obsessing about someone's PSYCHOLOGY in pressuring or not pressuring Obama on this or that issue, is it too much to ask that if we support issue X that we simply pressure on issue X and let the chips fall where they may?

The election is OVER!  Whatever merit there was in focusing all attention on the minutiae of candidates themselves during the election, there is no such merit now.  Obama is NOT the issue.  The issue is Social Security, Employee Free Choice, Housing, Single Payer, Debt Slavery.  In that I'll agree with Lambert.  If Obama isn't leading the struggle, as he almost surely won't be, that's no reason not to enter the fight.  Same goes for the non-economic issues like Gay Marriage, for that matter.  What Obama does or doesn't say doesn't stop the show.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
True (0.00 / 0)
Also, if Obama is not yet leading the struggle, it does not mean its not time for the rest of us to enter the fight.

Support a Pennsylvania Progressive for Governor - Joe Hoeffel

[ Parent ]
Single payer! (4.00 / 2)
I distrust the phrase "universal health care" because it's not specific enough as to implementation. There could well be a program that claimed to be "universal" yet it's entire reason for being was keeping the insurance company's business model alive for another decade.

That said, my slogan is "hope, but verify." I mean, it is nice not to be ruled by insane people, but governed by sane ones. But that's setting the bar awfully low, yet many seem to think it's enough ("wait 'til he does something").

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  


[ Parent ]
Republicans defining debate (4.00 / 3)
It's hard to argue with that as I listen to a former Bush speechwriter yak about Osama Bin Laden's motives on MSNBC.


I think we need to accept (and try to alter) (4.00 / 9)
a couple realities:

1. Obama benefits from (or is harmed by, depending on your perspective) his context. He's come to power on the back of Bush and at a time when Democrats have, well, sucked for years and years. Obama would have to betray progressive principles on a massive scale, and do so again and again, for there to widespread opposition. Dems are too accustomed to a historically criminal and corrupt president and to a corporatized, cowardly Democratic leadership to mobilize in opposition to a president for merely, you know, breaking promises and violating progressive principles a few times. Thus Obama can with impunity embrace Rubinism on economics, appoint centrist after centrist, udhold Bush policy on state secrets, go squishy on torture, escalate an umwinnable war, violate his own pledge on lobbyists, etc. I agree somewhat with Greewald that progressive organizations have sold out for a ride on the Obama train but it's unrealistic to expect many of the members of those organizations to oppose Obama in any concrete way at this point. Check back next year.

2. Many of the people Obama has brought into the process are both loyal to him and not all that progressive. Believe me, spend a day over at DailyKos and you'll find that among new netroots people there are more Silveritres than Sirotatistas. They find little to object to in Obama's centrist (or conservative) policies. The support "free" trade. They support escalating the war in Afghanistan. They find the purported radicalism espoused at Daily Kos much worse than anything Obama espouses. Press them and they'll admit that they're moderate. They're simply not going to erupt in anger against Obama's establishment-friendly policies, because they generally agree with them. Not only have we not won the battle for the soul of the Democratic Party, we haven't even won the battle for the soul of the netroots.


sideshow on this -- it's like Blair and "New Labor" (4.00 / 5)
... thus we ended up with a "Labour" government that was every bit as right-wing as Thatcher's had been, although that was what everyone thought they were voting against. It wouldn't surprise me to know that this was exactly what Blair intended. There are some people who still question whether Obama was doing the same thing for the same reasons, but it seems to me you don't do this unless that's exactly your intention. Whatever his reasons were, the result really has been that whatever Obama does is seen as being the farthest left position, and since his positions are largely right-of-center, that's a very damaging situation for our country. ...
-- http://sideshow.me.uk/sfeb09.h...

[ Parent ]
It's not that bad yet (0.00 / 0)
When Blair was elected, the opposition on the left was limited to Arthur Scargill and the usual SWP types losing their deposits in every bye-election there was. Because we govern from the legislature, there were no alternative power centres in the party and enough of our leaders were co-opted for those who had any real beliefs to be marginalised.

The end result of which was a governmental policy that a majority of the party had no confidence in, a war that we opposed as much as anybody else in the country, a leader who we wouldn't have pissed on if he was on fire and the loss of many of the leading left voices and much of my generation on the left to the Greens (who can't get elected) or the Lib Dems (who basically encapsulate a slightly more libertarian version of Blairism). Add in a permanent patina of sleaze and likely getting the blame for the worst recession in at least seventy years, and New Labour kind of fucked the Labour Party.

In America you have alternative power structures, you have frequent elections, and you're ready to argue. It's not that bad and it's unlikely it will get that bad.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


[ Parent ]
but were Labor's policies seen as far left? Obama's are painted as liberal -- and as progressive even here (0.00 / 0)
that seems to me to be the biggest structural/positioning difference here -- bec we only have Dem and Repub --- and Dem policies are always painted as liberal even when they're totally not -- even when they're Republican policies, like Health IT and entitlement reform and massive taxcuts, for just 3 examples -- that Dubya pushed every single year.

[ Parent ]
Arguably they were (4.00 / 1)
It was very cautious - Blair agreed to stick by Tory spending plans for his first two years in office - but he was certainly further left than the Major government (and even more so with regard to the then increasingly powerful Tory lunatic fringe) and there were real reforms like the introduction of the minimum wage.

They weren't far left, but they were not viewed as a betrayal of Labour's traditional heritage, simply a moderation of it. Unfortunately, Blair was lying to us.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


[ Parent ]
ahh -- i always thought they had repackaged themselves as "third way"/middle/etc -- (0.00 / 0)
(like Clinton did) -- and that the media there had not portrayed it as leftist or even as very liberal, but as "moderate", like the party itself was selling it as, and as "not your parent's Labor party" etc ...

[ Parent ]
The fact that we view differences in opinions (0.00 / 0)
as "battles" is exactly why so many people don't participate in the netroots anymore

[ Parent ]
But that's just it... (4.00 / 5)
We're not just talking about "differences in opinions". We're talking about people's lives, for goodness sake! We're talking about torture, habeas corpus, health care, economic justice, civil rights, sustainability, and so much more. We need to stop marginalizing our own values by just tossing them aside as "differences in opinions".

Isn't this how we kept losing elections?

Yes, Virginia, there are progressives in Nevada.


[ Parent ]
We keep losing elections? (4.00 / 1)
Seems to me we've been winning them as of late, and even with our differences of opinions.  

[ Parent ]
But this "battle" was not won on Kos itself, ever (4.00 / 1)
Despite Markos's support for Sirota and the site's support of Edwards, Kossacks have broadly supported populism as a tactic but have been divided on populism as an overarching strategy.

When Markos co-opted most of the TNH bloggers to be front pagers, he co-opted a group of bloggers who care deeply about institutions and outcomes--"rational progressives". Kagro X would be Exhibit A, and Kagro knows I am one of his sycophantic fans. That was pre-Obama.  

Darkness has a hunger that's insatiable, and lightness has a call that's hard to hear.  


[ Parent ]
How come nobody considers (4.00 / 1)
protest a viable option

I don't think blogging is good for anything but organizing.  It doesn't represent pressure in and of itself.


Nobody doesn't (4.00 / 1)
(Or, rather, some do.)

But clearly they've got to be thought through, media savvy, and non-violent. Eh?

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  


[ Parent ]
Basis (4.00 / 10)
Wow--this is not the sort of accusation I would expect from Glenn Greenwald. In this passage, he is explicitly accusing a large number of unnamed progressive organizations of cynically exploiting support for Obama--support which the leaders of these organizations apparently did not share--into increased traffic, membership and revenue. This argument is in unfair. It accuses the leadership of many progressive organizations of actually being on Greenwald's side in desiring more left-wing pressure on Obama, but being trapped because they engaged in bad faith support for Obama during the campaign, thus tricking their gullible new members into believing those organizations were actually cheerleading squads for President Obama.

I based what I wrote on one thing and one thing only:  what key members of these organizations have told me.  I didn't name them because (a) it's irrelevant which ones in particular have told me this and (b) these discussions were part of agreed-to-in-advance confidentiality agreements.  But this is what they said.

You were actually present for one of those discussions, so I'm not sure why you're acting like this is some shock to you.  Maybe you didn't hear it when it was said.  Maybe you heard it differently.  But one of the instances I'm referencing -- and it's only one of several -- was said at a meeting you attended.

You're slightly mischaracterizing what I wrote.  I didn't say that these groups wish they could be more anti-Obama but are cynically exploiting pro-Obama sentiment.  What I said is what they said:  that they are limited in their ability to push back against or criticize Obama because their new members/donors/readers, etc. are very pro-Obama and won't tolerate opposition to his agenda.

I don't think it's corrupt or bad faith of these organizations.  They're dealing with the basic realities of having organizations like this.  And it's not necessarily bad that they are constrained by the views of their members/donors/readers.  Perhaps that's how it should be.  But it's still a reality and so, following-up on Judis' claim that liberal groups are "in Obama's pocket," I explained why that is, based on what I've heard directly from them.


Agreement and Context (4.00 / 1)
I don't think it's corrupt or bad faith of these organizations.  They're dealing with the basic realities of having organizations like this.  And it's not necessarily bad that they are constrained by the views of their members/donors/readers.

Yeah, I agree with that. If that is all you meant, then I have no argument with you. It is exactly how I took the statements to which you allude at those meetings to which you allude.

To explain, the reason I came to a different reading than the one you intended is because of the following sentence:

Many online political and "news" outlets -- including some liberal political blogs -- discovered that the most reliable way to massively increase traffic was to capitalize on the pro-Obama fervor by turning themselves into pro-Obama cheerleading squads.

I have been repeatedly accussed of criticizing Obama primarily because it will get me attention and traffic, not because I am being honest. To me, this sentence seemed like the reverse of that charge. It implies that these organiations weren't supporting Obama because they wanted to support Obama in and of itself, but primarily because such support would get them traffic, new members, more revenue, etc.

So, I appreciate your clarification, and I will update my post. I just wanted to give you context on how I came up with my original reading of your piece.


[ Parent ]
Thanks, Chris (4.00 / 6)
Even on that last quote you cited -- though I'll acknowledge that one could have been expressed more clearly -- that observation was pretty much confined to online media outlets and blogs, but even there, I'm not accusing anyone of saying things they don't really believe in order to pump or keep traffic.  I'm just saying that there are blogs and other online venues that exploded in traffic by becoming hard-core pro-Obama cheerleading sites and they now have a readership that does not want to hear criticisms of or pushback against Obama.

Again -- that's not an accusation of corruption or bad faith.  It's natural to be aware of what one might say that can alienate a readership.  Honest advocates set that aside -- or at least try their hardest to do so -- but it's still a potent limiting force in many venues.


[ Parent ]
Re "the discussions" and the "meetings" (0.00 / 0)
A note on sourcing in the original posting (basically, what you say here) would have saved some grief. My reaction was "Where's he getting that from?" and I didn't know whether it was a model of how things must have been, based on statements from the organizations, based on statements made by those knowledgeable about the organizations, or what.

I am in earnest -- I will not equivocate -- I will not excuse -- I will not retreat a single inch -- AND I WILL BE HEARD.  

[ Parent ]
Growth around specific fights - right and left (0.00 / 0)
After the failure of 2004, there was some effort devoted on the left to figuring out how the right had gotten so well organized.  It strikes me reading this that the right basically did organize much of its vaunted infrastructure around long, slow-growing, coherent, manifesto-like agendas.

What's the reason right-wing pressure groups grew slowly while our pressure groups grow around specific fights?  Is it because theirs grew top-down while ours grew bottom-up?

Yes we Kang


Interesting thread (0.00 / 0)
Good reading all around.

Not blazing any new trails here, but here's my $0.02...

Seems to me that until there's a galvanizing issue that changes the calculus -- something that majorly upsets a large portion of America, including progressives -- progressives will have little impact on the new Administration and Congress.

Yes, there will be a few arguable successes, a pullback or inclusion of some detail of a bill here and there, but fundamentally they're just not that into us (or inversely, they safely rely on us being too into them).

We're close to completely at the whim of the Administration and Congress to choose to make progressive moves, because they get little support for such moves from the Beltway, and little organized pressure from progressives.

Progressive actions will happen when elected Dems want them, if they want them badly enough to publicly fight the powers that be: the talking heads, the Blue Dogs, and the two most powerful people in the world: Susan Collins and Arlen Specter.

It is for that reason that speculation on personalities is inevitable. What (of a progressive nature) does Obama really want, and want so bad that he'll do what he seems to hate more than anything, i.e., talking like am unabashed liberal? The answer to that question will have considerable impact on our national direction, until and unless events force his hand one way or another.

Hats off to Chris, Glenn, and company for shining a light on the challenge and striving to work through solutions.


Not exactly (4.00 / 1)
Progressive actions will happen when elected Dems want them, if they want them badly enough to publicly fight the powers that be (snip)

It is for that reason that speculation on personalities is inevitable.

No, progressive actions will come when elected Dems fear the consequences of not taking the lead in pushing them. What they want is irrelevant - we need them to do the right thing, regardless of their motives.  

Speculation on personalities is not inevitable, and it's not helpful either.  



Support a Pennsylvania Progressive for Governor - Joe Hoeffel


[ Parent ]
I don't think our positions are really that far apart (4.00 / 2)
I'm saying that until and unless Dems fear such consequences -- which they unequivocally don't (and, in practical terms, why should they?) -- the only way progressive actions will occur is through their good graces.

Thus, if one wants to anticipate policy, it behooves one to understand whom we elected -- which many voters do not. Frankly, I've studied Obama for two years now and have found few indications of what he really wants to do. His supporters are split between those who see him as a bold progressive, a stealth progressive, or a "pragmatic" "centrist." His detractors see the new boss, same as the old boss.

At this point, we are simply at the whim of these folks in the Executive and Legislative branches. Not a good situation, which is why I've groused for eons about progressives rolling over for Obama and shutting down criticism from the left.

I'm all ears for suggestions on how we might change this, but until that change happens, that's what we're stuck with -- lying back and hoping or shaking our tiny e-fists, largely in vain.


[ Parent ]
yes! (4.00 / 1)
I agree completely with Chris's argument that progressives have historically organized around specific, defined issues.  This seems to be a constant throughout history.  However, I have to disagree with his argument that Republican control of the debate in Washington and the right wing bias of the media more generally are insurmountable obstacles to achieving greater progressive influence.  Of course, these are huge issues and I'm not at all opposed to concerted efforts to re-frame the debate in D.C. or break up the huge media monopolies.  However, with enough organizing, these issues can be overcome.  

The example of Bolivia and the recent election of Evo Morales is, in my view, very instructive for this debate.  When asked about campaign finance laws or other barriers to organizing in the U.S., Noam Chomsky often responds by discussing the example of Bolivia.  There, right wing oligarchs enjoy complete control of the national media and up until a few years ago, the political debate in the capital, La Paz, was dominated by conservative/centrist parties composed mostly of whites and mixed race persons, despite the fact that Bolivia is majority indigenous.  In addition, Bolivia is a desperately poor country--the poorest in South America--and has to deal with a neighbor to its north that doesn't take to kindly to progressive reform in its own backyard (us, unfortunately).  Yet, despite all of those myriad obstacles, Bolivia underwent a full-scale social transformation over the past decade beginning with a conflict over water privatization in 2000.  In 2005 years later, the country had a national election that was about real issues, not a personality contest, in which an indigenous and socialist president was elected (Morales).  

In other words, if the people of Bolivia, who face far greater disadvantages and impediments to organizing than American progressives, can challenge local and transnational elites and move their country to the left, then so can we.      


oops (0.00 / 0)
I meant this comment to be a reply to David's.  I agree completely with your argument, hence, the "yes!" title.  

[ Parent ]
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