Yes, A Massive Ideological Shift Has Happened

by: Chris Bowers

Wed Feb 25, 2009 at 11:17


Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal's speech last night was yet another example that, despite vast Democratic gains in the 2006 and 2008 elections, conservatives do not believe that this partisan shift has been accompanied by an ideological shift. Jindal's Republican response read from the exact same conservative script about government is part of the problem, rather than part of the solution, that we have been hearing for decades. While David Brooks referred to such a belief as "a form of nihilism," Jindal is hardly the only conservative clinging to this false hope. The numbers these commenters rely upon are the post-election ideological self-identification numbers from Pew, showing that significantly more Americans still self-identify as conservative than liberal.

However, the simple fact is that when polling firms stop asking Americans abstract questions about what vague ideological term they call themselves, and start asking Americans about what they actually believe, an enormous ideological shift is apparent. For example, last month the Harris poll found a huge popular shift in favor of government programs over the last three years (more in the extended entry):

Chris Bowers :: Yes, A Massive Ideological Shift Has Happened
ROCHESTER, N.Y. - January 13, 2009 - A new study finds that public support for government services is substantially higher than it was in 2005. However, the level of support varies greatly from service to service.(...)

For every one of 13 services that were asked about in 2005 and in this new Harris Poll,
the percentage of people supporting them ("a great deal" or "somewhat") has increased
over the last three years.

The biggest increases in support are for:

  • Intelligence services, up to 18 points to 79%
  • Immigration and naturalization, up 17 points to 64%
  • Medicare, up 14 points to 90%
  • Defense, up 14 points to 85%
  • Federal aid to public schools, up 14 points to 83%
  • Crime fighting and prevention, up 14 points to 91%; and
  • Social Security, up 12 points to 88%.
These double digit shifts in favor of government programs since late 2005 mirror Democratic gains in terms of both timeframe and overall size. These shifts are why a massive new public spending bill like the stimulus / jobs package was politically possible.

A few conservative commentators, like Rich Lowry, are aware of this shift. Writing about what would happen if the economy does recover as a result of expanded government, last night Lowry wrote the following:

He's [Obama is] trying to redefine extensive government activism as simple pragmatism, and if he succeeds, might well shift the center of American politics for a generation.

Indeed. The public has shifted in favor of government intervention in the economy to the same degree it has shifted toward Democrats. If Democrats succeed in turning the economy around through increased government intervention, then the ideological gains measured by the Harris poll will be solid for a generation. Of course, if the economy does not turn around over the next three years or so, then this ideological shift might wellbe temporary.

Of course, there are other, even more obvious signs of an ideological shift in America than polling about support for governmental programs. Ethnic and religious identity are subsets of ideology, rather than something to be found in nature. That a rapidly increasing percentage of Americans are self-identifying as non-white and / or non-Christian is, in and of itself, demonstrative of an enormous ideological shift in America that does not bode well for conservatives. Republicans tried to paper up their problems on this front by using Bobby Jindal in their response to President Obama, but the depth of their problem in this area was revealed when many conservatives started spreading rumors that Jindal is a "secret Muslim," too. However, the truth is that Jindal is actually an exorcist. I think there was an ideological shift away from that belief back in the 19th century.


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Don't Feed The Troll (4.00 / 8)
Anyway, this is exactly right.  The party that gives the country universal healthcare is going to be the dominant force in American politics for some time to come.

To be fair ... (4.00 / 3)
I think Jonah's got a little too much time on his hands lately.  Trolling Open Left is probably the most constructive thing he's capable of now.

[ Parent ]
Lowry very much (4.00 / 5)
hit the nail on the head.

A recovering economy would pretty much disprove the entire Republican case on the economy and government.

A small quibble, three of the six government services that Pew determined had wide public support were arguably things that conservatives have long supported (defense, immigration enforcement and intelligence.)  


Not a good example (4.00 / 3)
Yes, this poll is not a good example of the shift in ideology. Paul Rosenberg's analysis using social science surveys is more convincing. And, the 2006 and 2008 elections are the best polls of all: they clearly showed that Americans now realize what a sham conservative ideology really is and that they were bamboozled by Reagan/Bush/Bush. People were ready for substantial change and Obama offered them the best shot at that.

[ Parent ]
And what about the converse of this? (4.00 / 2)
What happens if Obama's stimulus, expensive as it is, fails to recover the economy? Won't Americans take that as a refutation of Democratic ideas? Won't it seem plausible to many Americans that, even if the Republicans might not have done any better, at least they wouldn't have "wasted" so much money on an (apparently) useless stimulus?

This is why it is so crucial that the stimulus be done right, and that the politics around it be set up correctly for 2010 and 2012 (and proposing to cut the deficit in half by 2012 is exactly the wrong thing to do -- unless, unbeknownst to us, an economic miracle is in the making.)


[ Parent ]
Of course (4.00 / 2)
Which  is why it is Insane to let Republicans sabotage our bills. Especially irrelevant House Republicans.  

[ Parent ]
It was Katrina (4.00 / 11)
I know it hasn't exactly gone unremarked that Katrina exposed the flaws of not just the Bush administration but of conservative ideology in general, but even so, I think it's underrated as a tipping point for this ideological change. That event exposed the essential callousness of conservatism as practiced; conservatives' indifference to the non-wealthy; their indifference to the success of government; and was the first major event to make it seem that the country is in a state of decline (with the financial crisis possibly being the second). Katrina was the moment when conservatism went from being a plausible mainstream narrative about government and society to a fringe, rigid ideology.

Fast forward 3 1/2 years, and what does the representative of the Republican party say in response to Obama's speech? That the model of our response to the economic crisis ought to be: governmental non-response to Katrina. And as a bonus, monitoring volcanoes in case of a natural disaster is "wasteful spending."

I am feeling very optimistic about 2010 and 2012 today.


I mostly agree (4.00 / 6)
except I think the shine started to come off of the modern day "conservatives" during the Terri Schiavo fiasco. That speed with which the GOP officials responded to that situation - didn't Bush fly back to DC to sign some bill? - was in such stark contrast to how they handled Katrina that it made everyone notice just how naked the Emperor had been all along.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Yeah, that contrast was a killer for them (4.00 / 2)
But the Schiavo thing happened before Katrina, so it was only in the context of the reaction to Katrina that that contrast was evident.

[ Parent ]
Of course (0.00 / 0)
but the Iraq invasion and the mess in Afghanistan and the North Korean nukes and the rest of the Bush Legacy would have served the same purposes. Katrina did put a very fine point on the issues, no doubt.  

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Schiavo too (4.00 / 2)
The Terri Schiavo case + Hurricane Katrina showed that self-righteous conservatives cared about imposing their vicious "morality" on Americans, but not helping them from disasters. And conservative opposition to raising the minimum wage, regulating banks, stopping predatory lenders, etc. etc. shows that they care nothing about protecting Americans from greedy corporations and swindlers. Conservative support for invading a country that posed no threat to us (Iraq) and then wasting billions of dollars on no-bid contracts that led to shoddy work (or no work at all) shows that conservatives don't even really care about national security.

Conservative ideology has been shown to be a complete sham.


[ Parent ]
Agreed on Katrina (4.00 / 3)
I was in complete shock when Jindal starting talking about Katrina.  Nothing like bringing up the epic fail of the Bush Admin in your response to the new President's speech.  It definitely goes into the WTF are you thinking category.

[ Parent ]
Agreed Re Katrina (4.00 / 2)
As soon as that happened, I knew the GOP would lose the 2008.  I knew it was inevitable.  It was simply too big for the media to bury.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Katrina (4.00 / 1)
made the Bush Administration irrelevent and highlighted to everyone the cost of putting people in charge of a government they profess to hate.



[ Parent ]
What I think one can conclude from numbers (4.00 / 3)
like these, and the general disarray in which the GOP finds itself, is that Democrats can be defeated only if they defeat themselves.

And this will come about only if Democrats don't bring about good governance.

And what does good governance mean in the current context? Most critically, that we recover from the major recession in progress.

And that is where I have my greatest fears. According to economists who take Keynesian theory to heart, the current stimulus is not at all likely to pull us out of our slump; far more likely, we will stay in an L-shaped recovery for some number of years.

No amount of fine speechmaking is going to make that problem go away -- nor is the ineptitude of the Republicans going to stand in the way of their rising back to power if the Democrats implemented solution is a clear failure, and falls well short of expectations.

To my mind, what's striking about the current situation is that there does, in fact, appear to be a clear and safe solution to the problem, as predicted by economic theory: a stimulus twice or more the size of the current one. Yet Obama has not even pressed for that solution, and indeed in his talk about cutting the deficit in half by the end of his term would seem to preclude it.

Now, one can argue that Obama just couldn't get a large solution passed through Congress. I don't find that argument in any way persuasive, but it doesn't really matter. If the stimulus fails to do what it needs to do, no one is going to care about what was possible in the politics of the day. The American public will care only about results.

It always troubles me to see how much satisfaction many progressives seem to derive these days from bashing Republicans. Why? Because this cheap pleasure serves as little more than a distraction from the real thing Democrats need to do: get things right when it comes to governance. On these issues -- and the stimulus is the paradigm and most consequential example of this -- the  real fights are among the Democrats themselves, not with the basically neutered Republican Party.

If the Democratic Party is to move forward into a positive electoral future, it needs to turn inward and settle on good, reality-based policy, and to promote that policy with confidence in firmness to the outside world.


Yes, after last night, I'm onboard with your analysis... (4.00 / 4)
Jindal gave a good, standard Republican speech, uttered in a way that a 4 year old would understand (he did sound like a Kindergarden teacher, after all...) just like Bush would have done...

and everbody... EVERYBODY hated it!  Just hated it!

4 years ago, that speech would have been hailed by conservatives, independents, and pundits alike... how Jindal is a "regular, ordinary guy" and he speaks the language of the "common man"...

Yesterday, his speech was a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

What a long, strange trip it's been....

But, the GOP better brighten up and quick!  Their goofballs, Steele, Palin, Boehner, Jindal, etc., aren't going to cut it in this day an age...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


I Agree 100% (4.00 / 3)
I didn't think it was a terrible speech.  I thought it was just your typical totally lame GOP stump speech, following a setup of mandatory suckup to the Obama's undeniable awesome performance. I guess since I've never been impressed by any of this sort of BS, it was no big deal.

I was sort of surprised when Rachael Maddow said that it left her speechless. I would have just said, "Same old same old."  But given how the rest of the punditocracy responded, she was obviously trey tuned in.

Their goofballs, Steele, Palin, Boehner, Jindal, etc., aren't going to cut it in this day an age...

But who, exactly, do they have who's not a goofball?
Crist?  Him and who else?  You need two people on a ticket.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Tim Pawlenty (0.00 / 0)
He's a lot of things, but "goofball" is not one of them. Come time for the 2012 election cycle, he'll be looking for a new job, too.  

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
If Obama doesn't start pushing some anti corporatism (4.00 / 1)
He is damn vulnerable to a Huckabee-type guy. People won't care about the dinosaur thing if they get someone who will stand up to the banks and make loud (and ultimately ignorant and stupid) noises about immigrants

[ Parent ]
I'm with you until the immigrant part, (4.00 / 1)
given that stuff's increasingly problematic demographics-wise for the Repugs. Part of what Huckabee a force to be reckoned with was that he actually had a somewhat Obama-esque optimism. The Lou Dobbs' routine works on the teevee and radio, but it ain't the stuff of victory at the presidential level. Huckabee's populism never read as angry or vituperative, and that was an important part of his potency.

    Here's his speech at the Reagan Library:

"The people who are here would have to go to the back of the line and start over. It's not to be cruel. It's to make that everybody living in our boundaries lives in the light, not the darkness, and doesn't run and hide every time they see a police car. We owe it not just to the people who have waited in line a long time, but also those who do want to live and work here, and create a system that is legal, that makes sense and actually protects our borders but protects the dignity & worth of every person."
That ain't Lou Dobbs; Huckabee's a lot more politically astute.

[ Parent ]
The immigrant part can be dog whistled (0.00 / 0)
at least enough to avoid alienating ALL Hispanic voters.  After all, the South + the Midwest = pretty damn close to 273 electoral votes.  

[ Parent ]
Doubtful... (0.00 / 0)
There are large immigrant populations now in those midwestern states... mostly latino, but also from other countries... The right wing cannot escape that fact...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


[ Parent ]
The conservative (0.00 / 0)
Republicans are fast becoming irrelevant.  I watched today as an ideologically conservative economist (Bernanke) explained to a House Committee why the market could not be left to simply sort this mess out.  Events have shifted the debate in such way as to render wingnuts like Jindal obsolete.  

There are serious splits in the GOP right now.  The fact that the one of the few GOP Governor's of a swing state (Crist) is so obviously was at complete odds with Jindal strikes me as enormously significant.  If the economy recovers the GOP is going to cease to be a real national party.  

 


[ Parent ]
Why would support for SS and Medicare increase in this poll? (0.00 / 0)


Darkness has a hunger that's insatiable, and lightness has a call that's hard to hear.  

Safety net (4.00 / 2)
W certainly made the safety net both smaller and more important.  A major city gets irreparably damaged and he doesn't do much about it.  We go into an endless non-productive, expensive war.  The unemploymentrate doubles.  The "value" of the Dow is cut in half. The value of people's homes is slashed.  Lots of people have no health insurance.  The heartlessness and incompetence of banks and major corporations is played on the Tv daily.

Why?  People need something to fall back on. In retirement (now or future) oe when facing a disability.  That;s Social Security and Medicare.  Two thibgs Bush tried to screw up that are still there thank you.


[ Parent ]
A Caveat (4.00 / 2)
As fladem notes:

A small quibble, three of the six government services that Pew determined had wide public support were arguably things that conservatives have long supported (defense, immigration enforcement and intelligence.)  

This doesn't negate the premise of this post, but it does require a slightly more sophisticated argument.  Fortunately, one already exists:  the mediating factor of trust in government, and the related factor--not directly polled for that I am aware--of the perceived need for government.  The 1960s saw a dramatic decline in the level of trust in government, and a further decline in the 1970s.  Ironically, it appears that the main drivers of this were the Vietnam War and Watergate--hardly liberal "big government" in any sense.  And yet, it didn't matter in terms of the end result.  

I haven't checked recent "trust in government" data--these shifts are so recent it's likely there may not be any good data on it.  And besides, I'm more inclined to believe that a perceived need for government may well be preceding the arrival of actual trust.  But the the logical relations certainly make very good sense.  This explanation doesn't really require the invention of anything new, merely a filling in of the blanks in reverse order of what happened in the 60s and 70s.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


What is most striking is the lack of hesitantcy, the whole cloth acceptance. (4.00 / 5)
It is as if a rolling realization has swept across the nation; The republican right have been lying. Lying about the root causes, the effects, the intentions and the people of our society. They have been lying about themselves, about Democrats, about working people, about defence and about hypocritical morality.

It is as if, and I hope and feel it's actual, that racism, and homophobia and hostility to unions all the buzz worded shibboleth's of the last 40 years have been cracked open, exposed and revealed. I for one agree with the Katrina instigated model of shocked realization. We can put together example after example, and point to articles describing anger and resentment at the hypocrisy, but I would suggest, without dragging out actual facts or even citing vague articles, that polling might show a Katrina fall off that was never recovered from. Past foibles, scandals and bad press, past embarrassments, miscues and 'macaca' moments drive support down, only to have them drift back up again. But now, the underlying acceptance is gone.

The strongest Republican refrain was always "We are going to cut fat from those budgets."  The warnings that the fat was gone 15 to 30 years ago, that muscle and bone were being cut didnt seem true enough to some voters. They believed the Republicans were actually trying to do 'FDR-like' things, without the "fat" and waste. Katrina proved though, beyond doubt, the Right wasn't trimming fat, they actually didnt beleive in community and fellow feeling at all. This wasn't good government done cheaply, it was the "strangling of government in the bathtub" and all those not getting a cut of the 14 billion dollar bonuses were on their own.

I saw a poster, probably Brave New Films, of a aerial view of the New Orleans flooding and refugees with Grover Norquist's startlingly revealing death wish for democracy quote superimposed and I felt it was the most accurate portrayal of America's new understanding of the entire stage show of the Right's excuses, homilies and philosophy laid bare.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


This poll is suspect. (0.00 / 0)
Reading the pdf, I see it is an online interactive poll that can't even measure the margin of error. Didn't you spend the entire campaign season trashing online-only polls?

I blog on InnermostParts.org

Chris... (0.00 / 0)
You can't deride the right for their "secret muslim" witch hunt in one sentence, and then come back with another religious slur (however well-authenticated) in the next.  

As Obama would say, let me be clear. (0.00 / 0)
The "facts" of someone's subjective religious commitments are not the issue. There are no facts in this realm, which is why it is so insidious to claim that someone is "secretly" something else. How would you be able to tell?

The issue is using religion as a cudgel at all.  


[ Parent ]
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