George Lakoff's "Obama Code" As A Partial Model

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 17:47


Earlier in the week, in Quick Hits, Mark Matson drew attention to George Lakoff's recommended diary at DKos, "The Obama Code", presented in advance of Obama's address to Congress and the nation by way of an exlanation of how Obama approaches politics generally, and political communications in particular, in a distinctive manner.

In my view, Lakoff makes the best case for Obama of anyone I have read-far superior to the secret plan variants.  And yet, I think his account falls short. But it does so in a way that nonetheless sheds a great deal of light.  Lakoff's approach to analyzing Obama is based on his analysis of liberalism and conservatism in terms of contrasting family models-Strict Father and Nurturant Parent (SF/NP for short)-which he first described and explained in Moral Politics in 1996. While I believe this is an extremely important insight into the organizing structure of American politics, I do not see it as the whole story.  Instead, I see Lakoff as providing one extremely important perspective which needs to be complimented with other perspectives, combined into a comprehensive model.  

In this diary, I want to look at "The Obama Code" in terms of where some crucial problems emerge in terms of Lakoff's explanation, viewing them not as refutations of Lakoff's general theory, but as points where other explanatory mechanisms come into play, altering or mitigating the impact of the causal factors in Lakoff's theory.  I will also point out an example where other explanatory mechanisms reinforce Lakoff's theory. I hope to have time to follow up with another diary describing the outlines of the more general structure.  For now, I will simply reintroduce a key aspect of that more extensive model, which I have described before, the template provided by Sidanius and Pratto's Social Dominance Theory (SDT) the macro-structure of which can be seen in the chart that appears below the flip:

Paul Rosenberg :: George Lakoff's "Obama Code" As A Partial Model

In the middle of the above chart we have the realm of "legitimating myths" (LMs), those which are "hierarchy enhancing" (HE-LMs) and those which are "hierarchy attenuating" (HA-LMs).  In my view, Lakoff's SF/NP model provides profound insight into the interior workings of the realm of the legitimating myths.  In turn, SDT describes the stabilizing materialist matrix that maintains the broad outlines of hierarchical relationships that are generally preserved across periods of upheaval. This matrix provides the underlying framework for understanding the hegemonic ideological struggle between egalitarianism and authoritarianism.  Lakoff's SF/NP model can also be seen as providing an abstract description/explanation of the two sides of this struggle.  However, the actual way in which the HE-LMs and HA-LMs interact in the real world is more complex than Lakoff's SF/NP model-just as the hierarchical structure involves more than social dominance orientation (SDO), the empirically-measured attitudinal factor associated with SDT.

In fact, I think that Lakoff is primarily right as far as he goes, in the way that he situates his analysis of what Obama is seeking to do.  However I differ from Lakoff in three ways.  First, I believe there are other cognitive factors he does not take into account in has analysis.  Second, he gives insufficient attention to the historical dimension of hegemonic struggle.  Third, he gives insufficient attention to the realworld circumstances we face.  Because I think Lakoff's case is the best one out there, it is particularly fruitful to critique it, as it is most likely to advance genuine understanding, and to contribute to constructive criticism.

Ironically, the one area in which Lakoff has repeatedly steped beyond his professional expertise is to point out the continuing need for greatly strengthening progressive infrastructure-a concern that takes him to the very threshold of the realms that SDT helps us understand::

The conservative message machine is huge and still going. There are dozens of conservative think tanks, many with very large communications budgets. The conservative leadership institutes are continuing to turn out thousands of trained conservative spokespeople every year. The conservative apparatus for language creation is still functioning. Conservative talking points are still going out to their network of spokespeople, who still being booked on tv and radio around the country. About 80% of the talking heads on tv are conservatives. Rush Limbaugh and Fox News are as strong as ever.  There are now progressive voices on MSNBC, Comedy Central, and Air America, but they are still overwhelmed by Right's enormous megaphone.  Republicans in Congress can count on overwhelming message support in their home districts and homes states. That is one reason why they were able to stonewall on the President's stimulus package. They had no serious media competition at home pounding out the Obama vision day after day.

Such national, day-by-day media competition is necessary. Democrats need to build it. Democratic think tanks are strong on policy and programs, but weak on values and vision.  Without the moral arguments based on the Obama values and vision, the policymakers most likely [will] be unable to regularly address both independent voters and the Limbaugh-FoxNews audiences in conservative Republican strongholds.

Because I agree with the core of Lakoff's analysis coming from cognitive science, and I agree with his stress on the need to develop countervailing progressive infrastructure, the differences in viewpoint are naturally going to be relatively small, at least conceptually, compared to the areas of disagreement.  But that doesn't mean the disagreements aren't important.  It does, however, mean that they can be much more clearly defined than they might otherwise be.

So, let me examine a few key points in his diary and discuss where our differences come from, and where they lead.

In his introduction, Lakoff writes:

The pundits will stress the nuts-and-bolts policy issues: the banking system, education, energy, health care. But beyond policy, there will be a vision of America-a moral vision and a view of unity that the pundits often miss.

What they miss is the Obama Code. For the sake of unity, the President tends to express his moral vision indirectly. Like other self-aware and highly articulate speakers, he connects with his audience using what cognitive scientists call the  "cognitive unconscious." Speaking naturally, he lets his deepest ideas simply structure what he is saying. If you follow him, the deep ideas are communicated unconsciously and automatically. " The Code is his most effective way to bring the country together around fundamental American values.

For supporters of the President, it is crucial to understand the Code in order to talk
overtly about the old values our new president is communicating. It is necessary because tens of millions of Americans-both conservatives and progressives-don't yet perceive the vital sea change that Obama is bringing about.

I would agree with this, but one significant addition: part of the reason that people might not yet the "vital sea change" Lakoff writes about is that Obama himself has contributed to blurring the change he represents, in a variety of different ways, and for a variety of different reasons.  Sometimes he really is doing something more subtle that jaded professionals just fail to appreciate.  And sometimes he's just playing 11-dimensional 52-card pickup.   And sometimes, maybe, it's a little bit of both.


Turning from the general to the (slightly more) specific, here's the first area where I would differ somewhat (emphasis added last paragraph):

1. Values Over Programs

The first move is to distinguish programs from the value systems they represent. Every policy has a material aspect-the nuts and bolts of how it works- plus a typically implicit cognitive aspect that represents the values and ideas behind the nuts and bolts.
The President knows the difference. He understands that those who see themselves as "progressive" or "conservative" all too often define those words in terms of programs rather than values. Even the programs championed by progressives may not fit what the President sees as the fundamental values of the country. He is seeking to align the programs of his administration with those values.

The potential pushback will come not just from conservatives who do not share his values, but just as much from progressives who make the mistake of thinking that programs are values and that progressivism is defined by a list of programs. When some of those programs are cut as economically secondary or as unessential, their defenders will inevitably see this as a conservative move rather than a move within an overall moral vision they share with the President.

This is basically a restatement of one of Lakoff's main themes in his political work, dating back to Moral Politics: that conservatives generally are far more conscious of the rooting of their politics in a moral vision, while liberals routinely get lost in policy details and can't see the forest for the trees. Conservatives can fall into the same trap as well, but generally are much less prone to do so.

I would agree with Lakoff that this is a potential pitfall for progressives to fall into.  But the reverse is also possible:  Obama may cut something unwisely out of an ideological commitment to "pragmatism," "inclusion" or whatever.   Obama's invocations of such ideals can be every bit as knee-jerk in its own way as turf-defending a particular program may be.  You have to actually look, think, and test whether rhetoric and reality are matched to one another on a case-by-case basis.

Lakoff tends to exhibit a bias towards Obama because of the three-legged stool syndrome: Question: Which leg of a three-legged stool is most important?  Answer: The one that is missing.  Obama excels at the sorts of things that Lakoff's theory indicates liberals and progressives have been missing.  And because this absence has been so deeply debilitating, Lakoff repeatedly tends to see Obama's strengths as paramount.  However, Lakoff's own work provides another interpretive possibility.  In Don't Think of An Elephant, Lakoff describes six different flavors of progressivism, without claiming that any one of them is inherently superior to the others:

From the point of view of a cognitive scientist, who looks at modes of thought, there are six basic types of progressives, each with a distinct mode of thought. They share all the progressive values, but are distinguished by some differences.
1. Socioeconomic progressives think that everything is a matter of money and class and that all solutions are ultimately economic and social class solutions.
2. Identity politics progressives say it is time for their oppressed group to get its share now.
3. Environmentalists think in terms of sustainability of the earth, the sacredness of the earth, and the protection of native peoples.
4. Civil liberties progressives want to maintain freedoms against threats to freedom.
5. Spiritual progressives have a nurturant form of religion or spirituality, their spiritual experience has to do with their connection to other people and the world, and their spiritual practice has to do with service to other people and to their community. Spiritual progressives span the full range from Catholics and Protestants to Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Goddess worshippers, and pagan members of Wicca.
6. Antiauthoritarians say there are all sorts of illegitimate forms of authority out there and we have to fight them, whether they are big corporations or anyone else.

All six types are examples of nurturant parent morality. The problem is that many of the people who have one of these modes of thought do not recognize that theirs is just one special case of something more general, and do not see the unity in all the types of progressives. They often think that theirs is the only way to be a true progressive. That is sad. It keeps people who share progressive values from coming together. We have to get past that
harmful idea. The other side did.

Without necessarily positing any sort of direct match, it is certainly plausible to argue that some (if not all) clashes between Obama and various progressive constituencies are not simply a matter of Obama prioritizing within a more comprehensive progressive vision.  Rather, it can be seen as clashes between different varieties of  progressive visions.   Indeed, while Obama certainly does distinguish himself in some ways by specifically reflecting an intuitive understanding of aspects of cognitive science and politics that Lakoff discusses, this hardly means that his approach is the only way to apply Lakovian principles, or that his embrace of Lakovian principles is the defining difference between him and other progressives.  In particular, Chapter 2 of Don't Think of An Elephant presented an argument for a particularly confrontational approach to the GOP.  In discussing the frames advanced in the California recall in 2003, Lakoff discusses in some detail the "power grab" frame.  Thus, there is considerable room for political variation that is still consistent with Lakoff's insights.

Two specific examples can provide further clarification. First, let's consider civil liberties and the "war on terror."  Despite some very heartening moves that break decisively with Bush Administration policy in this regard, Obama has not  broken consistently Bush policy across the board, as Glenn Greenwald and the ACLU have both noted.  This is not the sort of difference that can sensibly be explained in terms of "programs [that] are cut as economically secondary or as unessential."  Rather, they must be seen as manifestations of a different ideological vision, one that is distinctively more conservative on issue of civil liberties, though the reasons for this have not been articulated as of yet.  (This was foreshadowed during the campaign, when Obama responded to the organized push-back against his FISA flip-flop with an "explanation" that was factually and logically incoherent.)

This example is particularly clear, since budget priorities do not enter the picture at all.  Yet, it is at least arguable that similar sorts of ideological differences within a broadly progressive framework are at work across the board, and thus one cannot concur with Lakoff's seeming claim that the misperceptions here will all be one-sided.  It seems much more realistic to assume that Lakoff is highlighting one of several potential reasons why both sides might misunderstand one another.

Indeed, Obama's elitist tendencies, seeking to find cross-ideological elite consensus, would seem to be a persistent factor across virtually all issue areas that cannot simply be discounted out of hand, relying on the logic Lakoff articulates above.  This is not to say that the logic is spurious, only to say that it is contestable.  Once one acknowledges a multiplicity of possible progressive approaches, it is no longer a question of who grasps the progressive way more truly and fundamentally.  Rather, it is a question of which progressive way offers better guidance in which particular sense.  As I have argued on previous occasions, Obama's seeking of elite consensus makes him more similar to early 20th Century progressives than to post-Vietnam progressives, who were distinctly more populist in their orientation.  This constitutes a profound difference in outlook which Lakoff appears to gloss over, despite significant evidence that profoundly different cognitive orientations tend to be associated with each of these political traditions.

Also instructive is the example of Social Security. I would join many others in arguing that Obama is making a fundamental conceptual mistake by allowing it to be lumped together with Medicare and Medicaid.  There is no crisis in Social Security, while the crisis in Medicare and Medicaid is directly grounded in the much more basic crisis in American health care costs.  I would add to the criticisms others have mounted, focused primarily on the subject matter, a very Lakovian criticism: this approach represents a a very basic error in framing on Obama's part, which allow others with roughly two decades of organizing history behind them to take full advantage of that long history of framing the issues this way, in a manner that makes it much harder to make headway in the direction that he himself wants to go-the way that his recently announced budget shows he still wants to go.  One can only conclude that Obama is not exactly the master of framing issues on this count, and Lakoff's overall account needs to be flexible enough to recognize this.


In section 2, "Progressive Values are American Values", Lakoff writes:

President Obama's second intellectual move concerns what the fundamental American values are. In Moral Politics, I described what I found to be the implicit, often unconscious, value systems behind progressive and conservative thought. Progressive thought rests, first, on the value of empathy-putting oneself in other people's shoes, seeing the world through their eyes, and therefore caring about them.  The second principle is acting on that care, taking responsibility both for oneself and others, social as well as individual responsibility. The third is acting to make oneself, the country, and the world better-what Obama has called an "ethic of excellence" toward creating "a more perfect union" politically....

The logic is simple: Empathy is why we have the values of freedom, fairness, and equality - for everyone, not just for certain individuals. If we put ourselves in the shoes of others, we will want them to be free and treated fairly. Empathy with all leads to equality: no one should be treated worse than anyone else. Empathy leads us to democracy: to avoid being subject indefinitely to the whims of an oppressive and unfair ruler, we need to be able to choose who governs us and we need a government of laws.  
Obama has consistently maintained that what I, in my writings, have called "progressive" values are fundamental American values. From his perspective, he is not a progressive; he is just an American. That is a crucial intellectual move.

Those empathy-based moral values are the opposite of the conservative focus on individual responsibility without social responsibility. They make it intolerable to tolerate a president who is The Decider-who gets to decide without caring about or listening to anybody. Empathy-based values are opposed to the pure self-interest of a laissez-faire "free market," which assumes that greed is good and that seeking self-interest will magically maximize everyone's interests. They oppose a purely self-interested view of America in foreign policy. Obama's foreign policy is empathy-based, concerned with people as well as states-with poverty, education, disease, water, the rights of women and children, ethnic cleansing, and so on around the world.

All this is very good at the conceptual level, but it has two big problems in practice: First, that Obama doesn't explicitly argue that American values are fundamentally liberal or progressive-despite the abundant evidence that this is so-not just from Lakoff's cognitive science perspective, but from the very words of towering historical figures such as Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Paine, Lincoln, and countless others.  Second, that Obama himself does not fully embrace this logic-as can be seen with his failure to fully repudiate Bush's violations of civil liberties, for example, or his further ambiguities regarding Mideast foreign policy.  What Lakoff calls "a crucial intellectual move," is, in fact, a move in the wrong direction-a move to accommodate conservative/authoritarian hegemony, rather than challenging it outright.

It's important to note that Obama could challenge this hegemony without personally rebuking the people he seeks to reach out to.  Indeed, there are profound differences between everyday self-identified conservatives and hardline movement conservatives, and a truly effective political strategy at this time would wisely focus on highlighting these differences in a wide variety of ways.  See for example, Greg Sargent's story, "Top Dems Planning Amped Up Efforts To Elevate Rush As GOP's Public Face".

Obviously Obama's main focus should not be the same as this, but it could and should be complementary to it.  In fact, he could develop a whole shtick about praising specific ordinary, everyday, self-identified conservatives, and contrasting their views and their actions with the views and actions of those who pretend to represent them.  What comes into focus here is that while Lakoff has repeatedly-much to his credit-focused on the need to for progressive institution-building to fight against rightwing hegemony, he has done so as a committed citizen, not in any professional capacity.  He has not connected his brilliant work as a cognitive scientist with any more extensive analytical framework that connects his work in cognitive science with the historical and institutional study of hegemonic struggle. And this is where his analysis falls short.


Lakoff's analysis is similarly incomplete in the next section:

3. Biconceptualism and the New Bipartisanship
The third crucial idea behind the Obama Code is biconceptualism, the knowledge that a great many people who identify themselves ideologically as conservatives, or politically as Republicans or Independents, share those fundamental American values-at least on certain issues. Most "conservatives" are not thoroughgoing movement conservatives, but are what I have called "partial progressives" sharing Obama's American values on many issues. Where such folks agree with him on values, Obama tries, and will continue to try, to work with them on those issues if not others. And, he assumes, correctly believe, that the more they come to think in terms of those American values, the less they will think in terms of opposing conservative values.

Biconceptualism lay behind his invitation to Rick Warren to speak at the inaugural. Warren is a biconceptual, like many younger evangelicals. He shares Obama's views of the environment, poverty, health, and social responsibility, though he is otherwise a conservative. Biconceptualism is behind his "courting" of Republican members of Congress. The idea is not to accept conservative moral views, but to find those issues where individual Republicans already share what he sees as fundamentally American values. He has "reached across the aisle" to Richard Luger on nuclear proliferation, but not on economics.

Biconceptualism is central to Obama's attempts to achieve unity -a unity based on his understanding of American values.  The current economic failure gives him an opening to speak about the economy in terms of those ideals: caring about all, prosperity for all, responsibility for all by all, and good jobs for all who want to work.

Because Lakoff's approach lacks a grounding in any sort of theory of hegemonic struggle, one can-as I do-readily concede his argument in principle, while rejecting it in practice on the grounds that, for example, he is doing far more to validate and empower those on the other side than he is doing to advance his own cause.  One can also point out that there's nothing particularly unique about him working across the aisle with Richard Luger.  This may be fine as an example clarifying what Lakoff means here, but it does nothing to advance the argument that there's anything particularly special to Obama's approach when we get down to brass tacks.

Furthermore, this approach only serves to wave off the considerable problems associated with reaching out to Rick Warren in particular.  Again, this is an example where the general principle may be sound, but the particular application is not.  It again shows the need for a more robust analytical framework.

In sum, I wholly agree with Lakoff that biconceptualism is vitally important.  However, I think that a more sophisticated analysis of hegemonic struggle-both in theory and in practice-is required in order to take full and realistic advantage of it.


Finally, I want to comment on a part of Lakoff's analysis where what we have is not a lack, but rather the presence of other analytical frameworks reinforcing what he observes:

6.  Systemic Causation and Systemic Risk

Conservatives tend to think in terms of direct causation. The overwhelming moral value of individual, not social, responsibility requires that causation be local and direct. For each individual to be entirely responsible for the consequences of his or her actions, those actions must be the direct causes of those consequences. If systemic causation is real, then the most fundamental of conservative moral-and economic-values is fallacious.

Global ecology and global economics are prime examples of systemic causation. Global warming is fundamentally a system phenomenon. That is why the very idea threatens conservative thinking. And the global economic collapse is also systemic in nature. That is at the heart of the death of the conservative principle of the laissez-faire free market, where individual short-term self-interest was supposed to be natural, moral, and the best for everybody. The reality of systemic causation has left conservatism without any real ideas to address global warming and the global economic crisis.

With systemic causation goes systemic risk. The old rational actor model taught in economics and political science ignored systemic risk. Risk was seen as local and governed by direct causation, that is, buy short-term individual decisions. The investment banks acted on their own short-term risk, based on short-term assumptions, for example, that housing prices would continue to rise or that bundles of mortgages once secure for the short term would continue to be "secure" and could be traded as "securities."

The systemic nature of ecological and economic causation and risk have resulted in the twin disasters of global warming and global economic breakdown. Both must be dealt with on a systematic, global, long-term basis. Regulating risk is global and long-term, and so what are required are world-wide institutions that carry out that regulation in systematic way and that monitor causation and risk systemically, not just locally.

President Obama understands this, though much of the country does not. Part of his challenge will be to formulate policies that carry out these ideas and to communicate these ideas as well as possible to the public.

Reinforcing this perspective is Kegan's formalized theory of cognitive development which generalizes the work initiated by Piaget and continued by Kohlberg, which I've written about repeatedly here.  In Kegan's formulation, each successive level of development takes the subject/context/background of consciousness of the previous level as its object/content/foreground.  Conservatives primarily reflect a level-3 consciousness defined by the existing social structure, and incapable of taking that systemic environment-or anything else at the level of abstraction-as object.  Liberals primarily reflect a level-4 consciousness that takes social roles and relationships-and other similarly abstract structures -as objects.  Thus, there is a second framework of cognitive structuring reinforcing the structuring Lakoff discusses.


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Lakoff and Rove (4.00 / 1)
Conservatives primarily reflect a level-3 consciousness defined by the existing social structure, and incapable of taking that systemic environment-or anything else at the level of abstraction-as object.  

Starting from the end of this very long essay, I have to say that of all the almost infinite number of ways to criticize the intellectual deficiencies of conservatives, Paul Rosenberg has managed to find an area where they actually excel!

Conservatives can't think about society abstractly? Are you kidding?

Insofar as contemporary "conservatives" and neocons actually think at all, it's fantastically abstract!

Saddam Hussein wasn't a secular Arab dictator with no conceivable connection to a fundamentalist like bin Laden...

That would be way too particular, too simple, too factual, too concrete!

Saddam was just another manifestation of the abstract category of "enemies of freedom," and the concrete reality of Iraq didn't really matter!

On the other side there were hundreds of former intelligence agents like Pat Lang and Bob Baer making hundreds of particular objects to the grand abstract vision of George W. Bush, and honest generals coming out of the woodwork with particular questions about what the heck was supposed to happen when the shooting stopped, and honest politicians like Kucinich exposing particular flaws in arguments and evidence, and that's how the liberal blogosphere earned its nick-names as "the fact-based community" or "the reality-based community," and so on.

Opponents of the invasion were all about facts, and supporters of the invasion were all about grand visions and abstractions.

If abstract thinking were a cure for what went wrong with America under George W. Bush, we would already be living in an earthly paradise!

But Lakoff's apologetics for Obama serve exactly the same purpose as all the abstract bullshit that Karl Rove used to justify the idiocies of George W. Bush, and the "Obama Code" deserves to be trashed like all the other grand abstractions that more or less destroyed the United States during the last eight years.



Your Ability To Take Things Out Of Context Never Ceases To Amaze Me (3.00 / 4)
No, actually not.

You're a one-trick pony.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Hegel (0.00 / 0)
My comment was based on an unusually readable and even elegant essay by Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, "Who thinks abstractly?" and maybe you should read it online here before you continue to dismiss every comment I make with a thoughtless insult.

[ Parent ]
Don't take it personally (4.00 / 1)
One can never criticize Rosenberg legitimately.  It's always out of context, or based on rank ignorance, and he always comes back with insults.  The reasons are fairly apparent: his entire article (once again) isn't analysis, but another long foray into insulting and demeaning his opponents.  He doesn't deal well with the idea that people disagree.  

Rosenberg spends most of his time denigrating the mental health and culture of those who disagree with him.  This is common in politics - Limbaugh and Coulter insist that liberalism is a mental illness.  Rosenberg claims that conservativism is in essence, a developmental disorder.  He loves Lakoff, who loves to argue fairly ridiculous points like conservatives don't understand systemic causation.  And they both apply either made up categories (with Lakoff, the family model that, to the best of my knowledge, has not an iota of empirical backup) or largely inapplicable analysis (Rosenberg is explaining politics in terms of cognitive development) to ultimately argue for the idea that opponents are not merely mistaken, but mentally deficient.

It's just name calling, not analysis.    


[ Parent ]
Coming from a man who idolizes (2.00 / 2)
Clarence Thomas ... well, nuff said.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Weird (4.00 / 1)
You have me mistaken for someone else.

I think Thomas is easily the worst justice on the court today, and probably the worst justice who has served on the post-war court.


[ Parent ]
So this isn't you, (2.00 / 2)
in this thread?

http://www.openleft.com/showDi...

Wait, don't tell me you left your laptop lying around and your little brother got into it. I know that one.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
Question (4.00 / 1)
Is it a reading comprehension issue or deliberate dishonesty that would lead you to suggest that I "idolize" Clarence Thomas - in a post from AUGUST of last year?

Actually, this isn't just weird, it's downright creepy.



[ Parent ]
I read the thread and responded to Sadie Baker. (0.00 / 0)
Now Paul Rosenberg is supporting Sadie Baker's ridiculous distortion of what you actually wrote.

Curiouser and curiouser!


[ Parent ]
I read that thread, and Sadie Baker is lying. (2.00 / 2)
A typical comment by kanzeon on that thread is...

Thomas seems quite invested in his views on the Constitution and the role of government.  Are you saying that a white man can have these views and be just mistaken, but a black man can't have them without being self-loathing? Or are you saying that a black man isn't entitled to make hard choices, and has to forego using his talents in the legal or political realm because some of the people associated on his or her side of the issues he holds dear engage in nasty racial politics?  

I think Justice Thomas is one of the worst judges ever to sit on the Supreme Court, but kanzeon's comment is subtle and intelligent, it does not amount to idolizing Clarence Thomas, any more than any of his or her other comments on that thread, and it's just barely possible that Sadie Baker is so incredibly stupid that she mistook kanzeon's remark for "idolizing" Clarence Thomas, but it's much more likely that...

Sadie Baker is just a malicious liar.


[ Parent ]
Malicious Liar? (0.00 / 0)
Well, the "takes one to know one" principle is on your side, at least.

But, seriously, if you read the thread, it's obvious that there's a pretty fundamental disagreement, and Sadie's account here is in line with her interpretive position in the thread.  Kanzeon fancies himself as articulating a "more nuanced" position, and complains about Sadie not following his lead, to which Sadie snorts

That's because you have nuanced yourself

into a ridiculous position.

And considering the fact that in that very same comment he wrote:

Symbolic progress is progress (slower progress than policy advances), no matter where it occurs.  Obama is going to do very little for the African American community.  He's certainly making no promises.

I do think that Sadie snorts a very good point.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
He's just freaked (0.00 / 0)
because he probably didn't know you can google blog comments.

Yeah, just let that thought sit with you for awhile, kanzeon and Jacob.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
So you're calling me a liar? (2.00 / 2)
I provided an example of Sadie Baker either lying about kanzeon, or stupidly misunderstand what he or she wrote, and there's nothing on that thread she linked to support her distortion that kanzeon "idolizes" Clarence Thomas.

So either she was too stupid to understand kanzeon's comments, or she was lying.

Paul Rosenberg calls me a liar with no justification whatsoever, and without providing any sort of example, because no such example exists.

I'm a real person, posting under my real name, and calling me a liar is libel.

Would you like to issue a retraction?


[ Parent ]
Smith v. ADVFN, (0.00 / 1)
Actually, considering Smith v. ADVFN, it's more like slander, if that distinction makes any sense to you.

In either case it's defamatory, and actionable in California.  


[ Parent ]
Um, hysterics much? (0.00 / 0)


Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Interesting (0.00 / 0)
It seems to me the two threads are similar.

Sadie's position, and yours, is simple: conservatives, particularly minority or female conservatives, are mentally ill.  You have amplified this in a subsequent thread.

Which is a self-evidently ridiculous position, frankly.  I responded to the second thread, but I'll not waste my time on it further.  I will have presumed we have beaten the matter into the ground at this point.

 


[ Parent ]
I also uprated both Sadie Baker's comments... (2.00 / 2)
I also uprated both Sadie Baker's comments, so they won't disappear with another troll-rating, and the next time she lies about someone "idolizing" Clarence Thomas, or tries to discredit another poster with some weird distortion, her comments on this thread will still be available to discredit her instead.    

[ Parent ]
Now THAT's creepy. (0.00 / 0)


Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Still don't "get it" (4.00 / 3)
Much of the talk from the right for the past 10 years frankly is incomprehensible.  "Values" voters?  People on the left have values, too.  Just different values.  Anti-abortion, anti-gay-rights-anto woman-authoritarian-pro gun-pro war are a set of values but hardly the only set. What about pro opportunity-caring for the sick, the poor, the disabled-pro peace-pro health- pro gay rights-pro civil liberties?  I have values.  Just not right wing values.

So which of the six progressive wings does Obama represent?  Identity politics?  Spiritual progressives?  t is not clear or obvious and simpler versions may make more sense.  Obama is a great persuader and does seem to attract some conservative or at least Republican support.  He has a huge amount of self confidence based largely on his personal history.  Clearly, Republicans in Congress are different than Republicans in general, less flexible and less subject to persuasion.  I knew that decades ago and so did you Paul.

The history of this country shows a few simple things.  Progress or even change has come mostly during periods when one political party is dominant.  Bi-partisanship or even non-partisanship is extremely rare in domestic politics.  George Washington couldn't pull it off.  Andy Jackson sure couldn't pull it off even with the Federalists dead.  The closest we have gotten in a century was Eisenhower, a weak Republican at best with a Democratic Congress (except for two years).  Eisenhower's years were hardly stirring.  Economic growth was low and he piled up problems for the future in his foreign policy (installing the Shah in Iran, instituting a Christian government in Lebanon that was doomed, backing dictators in Latin America, and above all installing the US as the de facto successor of the French in Indo China).  The public turned against Ike giving Democrats a huge landslide in 1958 and opting for "getting America moving again" with the less experienced Kennedy in 1960. So why do we ever want to go bipartisan?  The public elected a Democratic House, Senate and White House.  The public wants our vision and not a fuzzed up semi Republican piece of crap.

Is Obama trying to blur the strict father/nurturing parent model?  I see both visions being offered.  Lecturing governments against waste?  Telling people they will have to work harder?  Messing even potentially with the safety net?  Offering a budget that instead of raising taxes slashes the value of charitable donations?  Is this a strict father?  Other parts like praising the value of education are clearly nurturant.  I am quite confused, Paul, unless this is a hybrid of some sort.



I Think It Is A Hybrid (4.00 / 5)
I think that Obama has absorbed a lot of conservative ideas--some second-hand, simply as a result of growing up when he did, and not being quite the deep critical thinker some seemingly take him to be.  I also think that the lack of serious analysis of hegemony on Lakoff's part has lead him to overlook or under-register much of this.  The result is a policy mix that's more muddled than Obama realizes, but that has its heart in a better place than its head is.

I agree 100% about the lousy record of bipartisanship.  The only time it's good is when you get anomalies, like the Northern Reps and Dems combining to pass Civil Rights legislation in the 1960s.  But the Southern Dems and Northern Reps were far more often on the same side opposing the Northern Dems. Indeed, that's how the blacks got left out of the core protections of the New Deal in the first place.

Finally, just to clear up a point of confusion.  I wasn't trying to pigeon-hole Obama into the typology of 6 types of progressive.  I should have been clearer on this.  I think there are various different ways you can sub-divide progressives.  This is just an example that Lakoff himself advanced, and thus would surely not object to.  But I do think he clearly has more affinity for some--particularly spiritual, followed by environmental, and then maybe civil liberties.  I think that identity politics, socio-economic and anti-authoritarian are probably the ones he has the least affinity for.  Not saying he's actively hostile to them, and indeed he would support them strongly on certain issues, but I think he's also more readily swayed by counter-arguments on issues that are very important to them.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Obama reminds me a lot of someone I know (4.00 / 2)
who was a bit of a 60's-ish rebel in his youth and involved in liberal Democratic politics, and still claims to espouse general liberal values, but who in his career path and in more specific ideological and policy pronouncements has clearly transformed himself into a DLCesque "pragmatic" New Democrat type of the sort that Obama broadly falls into, and who has also, unsurprisingly, succumbed to the easy and lazy pseudo-intellectual and corporate-new agey ways of thinking and talking about contemporary issues that sorta kinda sound liberal, but the way a conservative might sound if they were trying to sound like a liberal--or vice-versa.

It's really quite grating when I have to listen to more than a few minutes of it, because not only is it sheer and utter horseshit, but he actually appears to believe in it (or thinks he believes in it, or wants me to believe in it to make it easier for him to believe in it), and I can't tell if he's really sold out, or just let himself be brainwashed by the Reaganite Lite ideological penumbra that's infiltrated modern liberalism. And as with this person that I know, I have a hard time telling if Obama also really believes in this RW new-agey crap, or if he's just trying to get inside the heads of the sorts of moderate Repubs and centrist Dems that he needs to get anything done--and if it's the latter, if maybe he's not started to believe in this crap himself (as they say, drug dealers should never try their own product).

I also find myself having inane discussions with liberal friends and relatives who too have bought into the mantra, that whole "Give him a chance, he's just started, you can't have everything, I trust him" crap that Dems who've newly rediscovered the faith after years of cynical apathy are spouting, and while they prove, I think, that Obama's PR has worked wonderfully, I continue to wonder whether it hasn't locked him in to a certain excessively wishy-washy incrementalism that leaves political money on the table, so to speak, and worse, which might have actually convinced him that half steps and compromises are perfectly acceptable, if not preferable--especially on certain core liberal issues that I think Lakoff gives Obama way too much slack over, like civil liberties, on which Obama has been simply dreadful so far, both in words and deeds.

Basically, I'm hoping that Obama's agenda won't end up amounting to some watered-down version of liberalism with a pretty conservative face to gain maximal support. If that's what he thinks this country needs, or is the best that we can do, then he's sorely mistaken, and the numbers prove it. The country doesn't want half measures. It wants some radical kinds of change from the past 30 years, about as close to a 180 as it gets in democratic politics.

I'm tired of this Stepford Liberalism crap, basically.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
The Thing Is It's More Complicated With Obama (4.00 / 1)
than it is with lots of those attracted to him.  Which is why I think it's important to take Lakoff's arguments seriously.

The budget Obama just introduced, and the tough talk of his radio address are indications that there really is some significant beef in the mix.  Even as other actions point to lots of bull as well.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
On some level (4.00 / 3)
Obama either doesn't believe in liberalism itself, or in its ability to triumph on its own terms, or is perhaps ashamed of it somehow. Apologies to Paul, who doesn't like such an obvious and simplistic metaphor, but I think that Obama is the classic child who wants to be loved by the more missing or distant parent, and is willing to go to great lengths to attain it. And for some reason, he view that parent as conservatives. He even got close to them at Harvard Law, not just for the sake of intellectual discussion, but personally, which I find unfathomable for a liberal. I'm all for live and let let and being cordial to everyone, and I am in my personal life. But it doesn't mean that I want or have to get close to people whose values I utterly reject and cannot comprehend, and I certainly won't water down my beliefs to "fit in".

Obama wants everyone to like if not love him, Bill Clinton-style, and it's debilitating.

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


[ Parent ]
I agree that it's important to critique Lakoff (4.00 / 2)
and I think you've done a nice job of getting at some issues, here.  One of the keys is this, that he has:

repeatedly steped beyond his professional expertise

when I teach community organizing, I make it clear that I am not an organizer, and try to bound what I think I know and what I clearly don't know.  I often tell students that people with a Ph.D. know a whole lot about a very small thing that most people don't care about.  There is this danger in being an expert about one thing (e.g., linguistics) and then fooling oneself into thinking one is an expert on stuff you know little about (e.g., politics).  I think Lakoff has clearly been guilty of this.  He writes with more confidence than his knowledge/experience base warrants.

The other day, my students asked me what I thought Obama should do about some particular political issue.  I fixed them with my patented "are you kidding me" stare, and explained that I actually don't know that much about day to day politics on that level of detail. THEN I told them what I thought.  

The conservatives are so effective in their think tanks in part because they often have little or no interest in the "facts" or in complexity.  Not something we want to replicate.  But it raises key questions about what effective left-wing think tanks should look like.  The loss of Rockridge was important--but is it possible that it was also itself potentially a problematic model? (I don't know enough about it to say.)

Paul, I'd be interested in your take on what a liberal think-tanks should look like--or what different forms they could take, given "our" different vision of research, facts, complexity, etc.


--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


I tend to think the flaw r.e. Lakoff on poltics lies with us as much as him, however. (0.00 / 0)
Certainly, he has valuable points to offer in relation to politics- which obviously contains multitudes-, but why is the netroots expecting completeness from him on politics? He's always addressed argumentation, which lends itself reasonably to political analysis. So stop there. Instead, we've turned him into a brand to prop up our arguments, and overlooked his limitations in return. I wouldn't think, though, that we need to turn around and throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[ Parent ]
Sure (0.00 / 0)
But I think it is also incumbent upon academics to be clear about what they know.  It's not just about what we expect from him, but also what he is offering.  

None of this, by the way, is meant to detract from the really important work he has done.  And he is an example of a broader issue.

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)


[ Parent ]
Ooops! (4.00 / 3)
I think you've creatively misread me here!  I only meant that Lakoff has talked about the need to build up infrastructure, speaking simply as a citizen concerned about the ability of liberals to compete in getting their message out.

While I do think there's potential danger for all of us in thinking we know more than we actually do, I don't think this is generally a problem with Lakoff.  He does tend to read a lot outside his area of expertise to get guidance in how his knowledge can interface with the knowledge gained in other fields.  His discussion of child-rearing toward the end of Moral Politics is an example of this.

Rather, I think the problem is that we have a general lack of a well-developed critical dialogue at the level he wants to engage, so he's most often engaged with those who aren't up to speed on what he does know about, so he ends up in professor mode a whole lot more than he ends up in colleague mode.

This segues directly into answering your think-tank question.  My answer is: what an excellent topic for a diary that would make!

But, meanwhile here's a few thoughts:

(0) All the following are based on the model of creating new programs/instritutions/capacities that will supplement existing institutions as a whole, rather than adding duplicative functions to 50 or 500 existing institutions.

(1) Take what we already have and devote $100 million a year collectively to getting the ideas and research generated out into the mainstream of the media and political debate.

(2) Devote another $20 million or so to supporting the kind of high-level collegial dialogue that would significantly accelerate the development of new understanding.  (Regardless of the level of thought that goes into it, most think-tank product is undergrad-level.  You don't need an advanced degree to understand what it's saying.  We need to augment that with a significant amount of work that's intended to produce graduate-level output.)

(3) Devote another $50 million or so to connecting think tank work with realworld organizing activity.

This last presupposes raising a considerably larger sum of money to support vastly expanded realworld organizing activity to connect the think-tanks with.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Do a Post on This! (0.00 / 0)
Happy to spend your time for you :)

--Aaron Schutz (Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing)

[ Parent ]
There's another view of Obama: (4.00 / 3)
Like Bill Clinton in 1992, people see what they want to see. Since Obama's platform is loftier than the Clinton platform, Putting People First, we still can't nail down what his battles are going to be. One of the relatively few glimpses we have into his real passions is his 2005 blog post, Tone Truth and the Democratic Party, which rejects crisply articulating what we stand for.

At this point, describing a code for the values that will guide Obama is probably wishful thinking.

Lakoff's assertion that there's a hidden pro-Obama sea change is without evidence. To my eye November exit polls illuminate the opposite, that the election had little to do with who was at the top of the Democratic ticket. GOP ID collapsed by 5%, Latinos, hardly Obama's "new voters," accounted for about 2% of our improvement over 2004, and the collapse of the economy was a sledge hammer that smashed more subtle reasons to vote. If anything, the year-long torrent of pro-Obama paid and unpaid messaging failed to convert into votes. Lakoff's sea-change assertion sounds to me like an academic justification for the false primary election theory that the more people listen to Obama, the more they vote for him. All of this optimism that Obama will continue to ascend seems particularly naive considering that Obama is now enjoying his honeymoon.

Paul is onto something here, that Lakoff does not offer a closed form solution with Obama:


Indeed, Obama's elitist tendencies, seeking to find cross-ideological elite consensus, would seem to be a persistent factor across virtually all issue areas that cannot simply be discounted out of hand, relying on the logic Lakoff articulates above.

Those for whom access to health care is a core value failed to be impressed by Obama's reruns of GOP Harry and Louise framing. Liberals who feel access to college should be based on merit and not class are similarly unimpressed. FISA? Feminism? National security? These core values crosscut people who weren't attracted by Obama's creative class signals.

The real tell that Lakoff doesn't have a tight theory with the Obama Code is, ironically, language. This paper isn't nearly as crisp and clear as everything he wrote prior to this election cycle.


You Make Some Good Points, But (4.00 / 2)
the fact that Lakoff's language is less precise--an observation I agree with--can also be seen as indicative of trying to grapple with an unfolding situation vs. is earlier work being focused on a much bigger picture.  

I continue to be impressed that Lakoff is trying to do this sort of work, and has drawn so little in the way of serious responses.  It's precisely the process of engaging with others in a critical dialogue that helps keep our language tight.  This should be our strength on the left, and we haven't done nearly enough of it.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
fascinating diary (0.00 / 0)
I wish I could offer an informed critique, but at the least I want to add a comment as encouragement for more diaries like this!

This paragraph really struck me (emphasis mine):

Indeed, Obama's elitist tendencies, seeking to find cross-ideological elite consensus, would seem to be a persistent factor across virtually all issue areas that cannot simply be discounted out of hand, relying on the logic Lakoff articulates above.  This is not to say that the logic is spurious, only to say that it is contestable.  Once one acknowledges a multiplicity of possible progressive approaches, it is no longer a question of who grasps the progressive way more truly and fundamentally.  Rather, it is a question of which progressive way offers better guidance in which particular sense.  As I have argued on previous occasions, Obama's seeking of elite consensus makes him more similar to early 20th Century progressives than to post-Vietnam progressives, who were distinctly more populist in their orientation.  This constitutes a profound difference in outlook which Lakoff appears to gloss over, despite significant evidence that profoundly different cognitive orientations tend to be associated with each of these political traditions.

I see the central paradox of Obama's politics as the tension between his personal elitist tendencies and his populist community organizing practices. This was evident in his decision to centralize bottom-up campaign activity as much as possible.

They call me Clem, Clem Guttata. Come visit wild, wonderful West Virginia Blue


If we solve the Obama Code (0.00 / 0)
will we find proof that Obama is really Jesus?

Fourth branch of government (4.00 / 1)
I claim there is a fourth branch of government - the military. This is widely acknowledged as existing in other societies, just look at Pakistan right now.

In the US we believe that since the military is headed by a civilian and gets its budget from congress it is a dependent, rather than independent branch.

However, the military persists between administrations. At most a handful of people change at the top. This degree of continuity doesn't exist in the executive branch and generally the legislative branch has about 10% turnover.

The effect of having a permanent military, funded with half (actually 54% under Bush) of the federal discretionary budget has a profound effect on policy. Not only do programs persist despite the efforts of presidents (and some in congress) to kill them, but mission of the military lags behind changing world conditions. This is why the military is still buying anti-USSR weapons and structured for conventional warfare. Even Rumsfeld understood this, but was unable to change things.

How does this connect to the discussion of Obama and the "Obama Code"?

To make decisions as president, one needs access to information, and this comes though government channels. So what Obama and key congressional members hear is what the military and intelligence agencies want them to hear. Before he even took office Obama was getting daily threat assessment briefings. The military's aim to to scare these people enough so that they adopt the policies that the military is promoting.

I frequently cite the case of Truman and the A-bomb which was well documented from a psychological viewpoint by Robert Jay Lifton. Once having bought into the story and made the decisions to drop the bomb Truman's personal sanity required that he continue to believe the ideas about Hiroshima and Nagasaki being military targets.

There was a recent quote by, I think, a former Attorney General as to how scary the world is and how you only find out about this after you get into office and start getting the classified briefings.

So Obama is being brainwashed as is every president. This leads to the muddled actions that this diary and Lakoff have noticed. Does Al Qaeda constitute a credible threat to the western way of life? Of course not. Is Afghanistan of vital interest to the US? No. Is Iran on the verge of making (let alone seeking) a nuclear weapon? Not proven.

Notice that there isn't even any discussion of the difficulty in going from natural Uranium to "enriched" (0.72% to 3.5%) compared with going from enriched to weapons grade (3.5% to 90+%). The military has objectives with regard to Iran and scaring the executive and legislative branches into thinking that we are on the brink of an nuclear-armed Iran is part of their effort.

On the other hand an unstable nuclear-armed Pakistan and an increasingly fractious India get no notice.

So without factoring in the kinds of pressure and misinformation that Obama and his administration are getting from the military one can't analyze the situation completely. Whether a better understanding of these dynamics would lead to a better strategy for countering this effort is something I can't answer.  

Policies not Politics


All Quite True (0.00 / 0)
200 years from now, the covert relationship between the US and Pakistan is going to loom much larger over the shape of world history than most anyone seems to realize now.  And that will be just one of the natural consequences of the rise of the military-industrial national security state.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
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