Yes, it's incredibly stupid (4.00 / 4)

 But a number of Democrats buy into this kind of nincompoopery. Like the stiff from Indiana who was on Obama's short list for VP.

 And THAT is the problem before us.

 DLC'ers would roast in hell even in a Unitarian universe.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

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by: Master Jack @ Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 23:32:29 PM UTC

I Can't For The Life Of Me (4.00 / 4)

understand why Birch Bayh didn't disinherit his son.

I mean, after all, his son disinherited him a long, long time ago.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 23:41:57 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

This is what might happen (4.00 / 6)

   1. Obama submits a budget with the spending necessary to avoid a depression.

   2. Blue Dogs bitch and bleat and whine.

   3. Obama caves to the blue dogs and waters down his budget.

   4. Depression ensues.

   5. Democrats get clobbered in 2010.

   6. Liberals get blamed.

   This is what the Republicans are trying to make happen. And it wouldn't stand a prayer of working of not for their blue dog enablers.

   Evan Bayh is truly worm dirt.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

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by: Master Jack @ Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 23:56:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You think they would have learned from 1994... (0.00 / 0)

...'cos that's exactly what happened then, too...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!

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by: lord_mike @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 01:02:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

When the goal of conservatives (4.00 / 1)

Democrat or Republican is to keep conservative policies in place, 1994 is exactly what they WANT to happen.

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by: NFR83 @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 01:08:21 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

One problem... (4.00 / 2)

 If there's an anti-Dem backlash in 2010 because of the administration's timidity and fealty to neoliberal bullcrap, the public isn't going to differentiate between blue dogs and real Dems. They're ALL going to get swept out. The "D" next to your name will be the kiss of death.

 And, ironically, the D's who DO survive will be the ones in the most liberal districts. The ones who would NEVER elect an R.

  So the blue dogs, effectively, are sacrificing their seats in obeisance to the Conservative Cause.

  Why do these people enter politics?  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

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by: Master Jack @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 01:17:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Why do they enter politics? (0.00 / 0)

To protect the Conservative cause..duh.

and the Blue Dogs who survive will do what they did in 1995...become Republicans

but not all Blue Dogs are a problem, it's important to understand that...the real number of Blue Dogs that pose a problem are too small to really pose a problem in this House majority.  

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by: NFR83 @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 06:21:47 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

My question was... (0.00 / 0)

 ...if your goal in life is to protect the Conservative Cause, why do you enter politics as a Democrat?

 Especially when there's a Republican Party right in front of you that encapsulates your values so much better. And they even have more money!  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

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by: Master Jack @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 13:28:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Spot On! (4.00 / 1)

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates

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by: Emocrat @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 01:18:28 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

This is one of my greatest worries at this point (4.00 / 2)

I'm not worried about 2010 so much. I think 2012, being a  general, could be tumultuous in the extreme if these folks don't get it right. Depressions take a while to actually become depressions. The US didn't actually bottom out during the last one for almost four years. So 2012 seems particularly important here.

The problem here isn't just about the budget. The Fed figures heavily in this, given that they've already doled out $4.7 TRILLION in secret disbursements. Add that in with the bottomless pit that is the Banking/Finance CEO Wealthcare Payment Plan and there is great potential for a lot of massive pain down the road a few years. We're in a deflationary cycle now, but when that abates, there's some real super-inflationary goodness await us and our now-made-worthless savings. I won't claim hyper-inflation, but Volcker is positively pissed about this, so I'm listening to him on this count.

Add into this the fact that the stimulus package is too small to do much good. It might create a couple million jobs when we're on a pace of losing another 7 million jobs by year's end if this doesn't turn around. We've already lost 5 million jobs, so that will make a total of 13 million or more lost jobs, lost insurance, lost healthcare and everything that goes along with that.

Add into this the FDIC budget is probably way too small at this point, because we're too busy handing out cash to CEOs so they can expand their Hamptons estates and get bigger yachts. Oh, and I am not being hyperbolic here, as much as I wish I was. What is it with maintaining Wall Street executive comp in the Obama WH? It's starting to sound vaguely Atlas Wanked to me.

Add into this the complete lack of realistic financial reform. Probably the best thing they could do at this point is wipe out the derivatives trade and make them worthless. There's still some $15 Trillion or so of them, at notional value (as far as anyone seems to know) whirling around out there. Thanks AIG and Bob "$100 Million Bonus" Rubin! I'll take a stab here and guess that repealing the repeal of Glass-Steagal will be labeled "impossible." Grrrrrrr.

I could go on. But frankly I'm tired and want to relax a little. It's hard enough as it is these days!

Oh, yes, Bayh is a douchenozzle to top them all at this point. Lieberman must gaze upon him with a bromance-ian gleem at this point. I'm so glad he's not VEEP. I do wish he would go away, though, out of some sense of duty to the country. That would be nice.

Heh. I'm also sure that's "impossible!"

So if the DC Pod People don't get their collective dérriéres in gear, I think you are absolutely right. Liberalism, even though it currently isn't all that liberal, will be deemed  a "failure" and the neo-Hooverites will make a right mess of things.

Suddenly, I'm very thirsty. Good thing it's Saturday!

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates

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by: Emocrat @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 01:17:24 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

"Just a joke" (0.00 / 0)

Josh Marshall calls this one: http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c...

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.

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by: desmoinesdem @ Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 23:58:11 PM UTC

Josh is right (0.00 / 0)

 The problem is that everybody knows this EXCEPT the Democrats on the Hill.

 I've never seen a crowd so allergic to power.  

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

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by: Master Jack @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 00:06:03 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

If The Republicans Insisted That 2+2=22 (4.00 / 6)

The Democrats would want to compromise, and then get into a long debate about what the compromise number should be.

Anyone who said, "The number is 4," would be ostracized as a dangerous radical, no different from the "ideological extremists on the other side."


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 00:13:37 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Imprecise (4.00 / 2)

I thought that the best articulated part of Josh's comment was:

I'm not even sure it's fair to say that this is a replay of the disastrous decisions the magnified the Great Depression between 1929 and 1933. It's more a parody of it.

But a joke--intentionally or not--carries with it the whiff of intentionality.

It might be more accurate to call it a pratfall.

Or a practical joke they're playing on themselves.

It's the policy equivalent of the Michael Steele/Rush Limbaugh dust-up:  building up the showboats involved by setting the whole river on fire.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 00:10:11 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well played, sir, well played (4.00 / 1)

It's the policy equivalent of the Michael Steele/Rush Limbaugh dust-up:  building up the showboats involved by setting the whole river on fire.

I laughed when I first read that (not derisively, I should add). Now I think I want to cry. It's a fine line between comedy and tragedy, as this instance illustrates all too well.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates

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by: Emocrat @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 01:30:01 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

CNBC (4.00 / 4)

Some rather aging but well dressed fool visiting CNBC a week or ten days ago earnestly went on about the immediate need of consumers to increase saving for their retirement (presumably to make up for the recent Wall Street losses).

Of course, no one called him on this.  They just stared in awe at his apparent "wisdom."

Duh, what may look good for individuals can be disastrous for a whole economy.  This spending freeze is yet another example of that.

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by: David Kowalski @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 00:12:55 AM UTC

Failing Econ 101 (4.00 / 3)

Even my very libertarian friend knows that you spend in recessions and save in periods of growth.  Or rather, that's what you want collectively.  But since the individual incentive is the opposite, someone has to step in and change things up.  AKA the government.

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by: themann1086 @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 00:58:34 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Confused (4.00 / 2)

What does a "freeze" mean? Does it mean that the gov't passes no new spending bills for the rest of the year? Does it mean that existing programs are continued, but there is no increase in spending?

It's one of those totally undefined catch phrases that people like to throw around, but which they can't define when pressed (which, of course, they never are).

What are "toxic assets", who gets the "hair cut", how does "nationalization" differ from what the FDIC does?

Perhaps the Republicans mean that they want to shut down gov't like Gingrich did. That went over real big. Would the shutdown also cover our ongoing wars, so that we stop sending supplies?

Notice how the talking heads never demand that pols explain what they mean. We have 24/7 emperor's new clothes on TV now.

Policies not Politics

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by: robertdfeinman @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 03:29:21 AM UTC

I Dunno (4.00 / 1)

But when I first heard "spending freeze" I was thinking something like a Marvel Comics superhero.  The opposite of the Human Torch, maybe.

That certainly sounds like what the House GOP has in mind.  A superhero to save the country and unmask Obama for the foreign-born imposter he really is.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 03:36:34 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

My letter to Cornyn and Hutchison (4.00 / 1)

Bravo to the GOP for advocating a Federal Spending Freeze!  This Texas family just wanted to let you know we are 100% behind the idea.  We have already frozen our spending in the household.  No new car this year, no new furniture for the house.  In fact we aren't even spending money on clothing.  We are even mending our own and if my children have outgrown something we are trading with other families to replace it.  We are growing our own food in the backyard instead of paying those ridiculous prices for it at the grocery store.  My husband and I have even opted out of our 401K's and instead are keeping our savings at home. Not in our mattresses of course. I will admit that we did make purchases: A safe from a business that went belly up and a couple of guns to protect ourselves since all our money is now in our house. Literally!

Anyway, keep up the good work.

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by: caraleeacs @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 11:44:50 AM UTC