As Obama Plays to Conservatives' Rhetorical Frames, Country Moves to the Left

by: David Sirota

Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 11:24


Just to follow up on my earlier post and Chris's earlier post, as President Obama does his best to rhetorically avoid the "socialist" label for fear of countering the right-wing's free-market fundamentalist frame, the broad majority of the country is moving in exactly the opposite direction, telling Newsweek's pollsters it supports full-on nationalization of our banking system.

This is only the latest example of how the parameters of the political debate in Washington, D.C. (in this case, portraying nationalization as totally extreme) are way different from the parameters of the political debate in the rest of the country (in this case, nationalization being a commonsense step). As with so many issues over the years, what is considered mainstream and acceptable in D.C. is far to the right of what is considered mainstream and acceptable in America at large.

To be sure, no president can afford to completely ignore the skewed Beltway debate - that debate does have a distortive impact on legislation. But a president can hurt himself if he focuses only on playing within that Beltway debate.

I'm not saying Obama is doing the latter - in fact, I think right now he's rhetorically appeasing the Beltway while having been successfully backed into advocating solidly progressive policies.

That's fine by me in the short-term. However, the power of a presidency isn't only in its short-term legislative wins - it is also in its ability to shift the terms of the long-term political debate so that a whole era of new policies can happen. And I maintain that if Obama ratifies right-wing frames, he may still win short-term (and certainly important) legislative victories, but he may also lose the longer-term battle to change the very way America talks and thinks about political possibilities for the future.

David Sirota :: As Obama Plays to Conservatives' Rhetorical Frames, Country Moves to the Left

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This is so tricky ... (0.00 / 0)
Not sure what is the best approach. The Republican attack machine is already on full swing in regards to the socialist tag already - if he tries to validate socialistic policies directly the attacks will be more frequent and forceful.

But you are right, he cannot lay off of it either. The frame of debates in Washington needs to change.

I am sure this is precisely the reason Obama is not approaching Nationalization of the banks.

Any solutions?


I doubt being called socialists is what's stopping them (4.00 / 4)
The obvious solution to the framing problem: nationalize the banks and call it something else. We've all heard temporary receivership bandied about, and the FDIC does it every day. These banks are just a lot bigger is all.

What Geithner and Bernanke are dithering about is how bad to fuck the shareholders. This is very likely not the trivial decision that populists of both left and right tell us it is.

Think what it would actually mean to pull the rug out from under everything from pension funds -- maybe even yours -- to the sovereign wealth funds of our beloved Arab partners in the Middle East. In a global economy, the counterparty problem is a huge basket of political snakes. AIG is probably the worst of it, thanks to its CDS shitpile, but CIti, BoA, et al., aren't far behind.

Again, the problem isn't whether or not to protect Larry Summers' or Robert Rubin's ill-gotten gains; it's whether or not to beggar people who could really hurt us if they wake up with lighter wallets.


[ Parent ]
Possibly... (0.00 / 0)
I was reading an article the other day questioning whether or not the government can legally nationalize or even FDIC style receivership them as they are not technically banks.

These are multi-national, multi-function conglomerates we are talking about here in Citi, BoA, etc.  Our regulatory agencies are to oversee much simpler corporate goings on, or so the article says.

It would be worth some research to be sure and might be a whole lot more informative for the readers than spending time worrying about Beltway language.

So what are the legal options available for these mega international multifunction conglomerates that the FDIC hasn't touched?

Anyone have the resources to find this out?


[ Parent ]
maybe a nit, maybe not (4.00 / 1)
I don't think people support "full-on nationalization of our banking system." What they were asked about, and what people have been proposing, is to do more or less what the FDIC has been doing several times a week for months - admitting that insolvent banks are, well, insolvent, taking them over, firing the management, putting them into receivership, and selling them off. Roughly speaking - the size of the banks in question and other things make it a lot more complicated than that, I'm sure.

The reason why I think maybe this is more than a small point, is that the way you described it is exactly the kind of rhetoric opponents of this approach use. They conflate getting failed zombie banks off the public teat and back into private hands, with some kind of scheme to replace the private banking system with a public one. As Obama himself put it - paraphrasing - it's all those blogs talking about nationalizing all the banks. Why, there are Thousands of banks! This isn't tiny Sweden! etc etc

So some care is called for. Unless, of course, you really are arguing for nationalizing all the banks and think that people agree with that.

not everything worth doing is profitable. not everything profitable is worth doing.


Voter data (4.00 / 2)
It is fairly obvious that these Beltway "analysts" actively ignore data.

The elections of 2006 and 2008 show a definite move towards Democrats and away from Republicns.  In that time the Democrats won the House, the Senate and the Presidency away from the Republicans who lost 25% of their Senate seats, 24% of their House seats and the White House.

For those who prefer polling data on party preference, Paul has provided plenty of data from Pew and Rasmussen to indicate a shift away from Republicans and mostly towards Democrats (Independents also rose).

Voter registration data from 2008 is available from 21 states.  Nineteen of those states also have data from 2004.  In only one state, Louisiana, are Republicans gaining by more than a nominal amount.  The net improvement of 115,000 registrants is due entirely to the loss of around 150,000 black Democrats statewide due to Katrina.  (LA has party ID by race listed on their web site).

Republicans have nominal gains in WV, KY, and AK;  Democrats have nominal gains in SD and NE.  Net Democratic gains in the other states range from substantial to astounding.  In order: CA, +880,536; PA +657,092; NY, +451,433; NJ +368,730; NC +191,080; OR +138,818; FL +130,240; IA +115,621; NV +105,790; MA +74,613; KS +42,281; and DE +38,621. Nevada and Iowa flipped from slightly Republican to somewhat comfortably Democratic.

It is obvious they pay no attention to the facts.  Facts matter.  Obama can simply state that he would appoint Federal trustees to run these banks until they can be sold back to investors.  Reagan did this in the 1980s during the S&L crisis and Clinton did it.  It is standard operasting procedure that saves the taxpayers billions.  All the talk from the bankers and their paid shills is just making chumps out of the American taxpayer to enrich pretty ineffective bankers.  These are the "experts" who made the bad loans.  They are hurting the economy, hurting millions of homeowners, and the raxpayers, too.

This is a very easy sell and Obama does fabulously when given a prepared text and a stage.  Go to it.  Please.


The frame that Obama is trying (0.00 / 0)
is the one we discussed last week:

He's [Obama is] trying to redefine extensive government activism as simple pragmatism, and if he succeeds, might well shift the center of American politics for a generation

Seldom have I ever read a more succinct summary of the political moment, even if it did come from Byron York.

Obama's frame is almost identical to the one FDR constructed.  For both, the key was what worked.  Ideology didn't interest Roosevelt, and I suspect it doesn't interest Obama very much. Given the frame he is trying to construct, it is not surprising that he would strike out at an attempt to re-frame his agenda.  


Except It's NOT The Same As FDR (4.00 / 4)
As I argued in several diaries this weekend, Obama's menu of options he's willing to pursue is much more narrow, limited in significant ways by how the neoliberals have accepted movement conservatism's definition of political options and purposes over the past 30 years.

As I see it, we are not simply involved in questions of moving more or less to the left.  Rather, there are very real conceptual barriers that must be struggled over, and bank nationalization is just the biggest one looming over us right now.  Rebranding it as "temporary receivership" would be no big deal.  The real hangup goes much deeper than that.  It goes to fundamental philosophy, and Obama has much firmer, much stronger commitments to neoliberal orthodoxy than FDR ever had to any one philosophy.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Right Arm, Paul! It's not about "rebranding" aka "marketing" (4.00 / 2)
Lakoff has done more harm than good in his "codes" and "framing" etc. leading people to think they can just change the wording without actually believing in a social contract between the government and the people. We need to get away from all that Freudian claptrap and cut to the chase.  This crony capitalist Milton Friedman flim flam is a bust for all but a few at the top of the pyramid.

On the other hand there are a plethora of bad metaphors out there like "plugged up arteries or pipes" that just need some cash to flush it out.  James Galbraith says that credit is not like a pipe or arteries from the heart.  It's a contract between a borrower and a lender.  If the borrower doesn't have the money or fears his money will now be unsafe, he's not going to borrow anything.  

Our job here is to try and talk to our neighbors in clear language without trying to pull the rug over their eyes.  But they have to trust us.  People still trust Obama,but that will not last.  Mort Zuckerman said yesterday that Obama is popular, but that hasn't translated into credibility.  The billionaire Zuckerman actually thinks we need to raise taxes on the top dogs and thinks the recovery package is too small.  Maybe he can get to Obama.  


[ Parent ]
What barriers? (0.00 / 0)
Your question assumes that the decision to nationalize is an ideological one rather than one based on policy.

You assume facts not in evidence.

I see no evidence that the frame is keeping Obama from nationalizing the banks.  


[ Parent ]
Obama is keeping Obama from seizing the banks (0.00 / 0)
It was Obama himself who fraudulently claimed that nationalizing banks "is not within our culture," never mind the fact we've been seizing banks since 1934! And everyone else in his admin are all saying the same thing, right along with Ken Lewis and the rest of the Wall Street paper tigers. These are people who are engaged in "talking their own books," to use trader argot. How interesting then that they all share the same talking points.

Obama is against seizing the really big banks, even though they are most to blame for our situation. He says that even these zombie banks are preferable to functioning, smaller banks that would emerge from receivership, because somehow that brief stint in public purview would somehow taint them. Apparently government can't do anything any better than the Ponzi Scheme artistes who are currently running the Big 6 banks.

It's pure ideology and its his ideology and no one, save his corporate benefactors, is putting him up to this. It's his choice and its his responsibility now.

"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly." -Woody Allen, My Speech to the Graduates


[ Parent ]
oh boy, (0.00 / 0)
are we actually having a national discussion about neoliberalism, and its advantages and disadvantages?  im in shock.  i wonder what people will think about its underlying assumptions once they understand them.

http://fish.blogs.nytimes.com/...


[ Parent ]
Wrestling Fans (4.00 / 3)
Here's the deal. We're like so-called "smart" wrestling fans. A "smart" fan knows (or thinks they know) about the real inside of the wrestling biz, and stuff like real friendships and rivalries between wrestlers when they're out-of-character, and the difference between real injuries and fake ones that are just part of the latest melodrama being woven.

Non-smart wrestling fans ("marks") either don't believe that wrestling is fake, or they don't care and just suspend their disbelief and enjoy it anyway.

For most Americans, words like "socialist" or "fiscally conservative" don't have any real meaning. They're just positive or negative labels. Likewise, much of the press is like the commentators for a wrestling match. They know it's fake, but play along because they're part of the show.

For people who follow politics closely, and know the difference between grandstanding on CSPAN and the actual sausage-making process, terms like "socialist" or "free-market" do have meaning, but it has nothing to do with the popular understandings of the words.

While I was canvassing during the campaign, I came across a woman who was a perfect example of this. She considered herself genuinely undecided; she preferred Obama policy-wise, but was wary about his "experience". My canvassing partner and I spoke with her at length. She described herself as "very conservative, putting Rush Limbaugh to shame", but as she got into her actual positions on actual policy, she was anything but conservative. She was WAY WAY to the left of Obama on pretty much every issue, aside from being an isolationist on things like foreign aid. She wanted free college and free health care for everyone, much higher taxes on the wealthy, etc. But she called herself a conservative even though she didn't know what the word meant. She just sorta knew it was a good thing to be.

Many of the undecided/middle-of-the-road voters were like this. Their policy positions were across the spectrum, and usually incoherent. They had really distorted ideas of how government actually worked, and the relative sizes of different parts of the government (some thought foreign aid was like half the federal budget), they often couldn't name their congressmen or senators, and they had absolutely no understanding of labels like "conservative" or "moderate" or "liberal".

In fact, those labels actually didn't matter. The "marks" knew that "conservative" and "moderate" were supposed to be "good" and "liberal" was supposed to be bad, but they also knew that the terms were thrown around, and they just considered it run-of-the-mill mud-slinging.

So, when politicians talk about terms like "socialism" or "free-market", they're really just throwing it out there for the benefit of the marks. It's just noise, and doesn't matter much in the end... although I guess it's a little Orwellian.

Conduct your own interview of Sarah Palin!


I'm not sure if Obama understands that the language (4.00 / 3)
put into his speeches and statements are"managed democracy" terms that will keep the neo-liberal Shock Doctrine going.  Or whether he fully knows that those words reaffirm his conservative mindset which is to be "a reformist, not revolutionary" as he told Ken Silverstein in 2006. Or to "Nudge" things along like his pal Cass Sunstein encourages without rocking the crony capitalist boat.

He should be called out for using words like "outdated" regulations.  That's how we got the Orwellian "Commodities Futures Modernization Act".  "Modernization" and "outdated" are weasel words.

For my money one of the best economists is Michael Hudson.  He wrote a piece called "The Language of Looting."    http://www.counterpunch.org/hu...

In order to steal literally everything, the Lords of Finance must render language incapable of describing the crime. "Society's basic grammar of thought, the vocabulary to discuss political and economic topics, is being turned inside-out." The banksters still think they can rule from the center of confusion. "Today's policy is to 'rescue' these giant bank conglomerates by enabling them to 'earn' their way out of debt - by selling yet more debt to an already over-indebted U.S. economy. The hope is to re-inflate real estate and other asset prices.

So it is our job to make the case in letters to the editor and talk radio etc that we have been flim flammed into stopping a conversation that has been going on since the inception of our country.  We have been made into apathetic infants (Gabriel Kolko's terms)by the Fat Cat News. We need to talk about creating a new system based on tried and true ideas just as our Founders did.  They studied the Iraquois and the Greeks.  This is not a simple reboot.  We need to talk about good social programs and the ability to pay for them with progressive taxation.  We need credit unions not banks.  We need more worker run companies who pump their profits back into their paychecks and their businesses.  Let GM fail and have the workers and engineers take over.

Enhrenreich, Steiglitz, Fletcher, Meyerson are all taking up the long overdue discussion of socialism and what America can look like after empire.  It is our job to take the discussion to our neighbors.


Nationalize! (4.00 / 1)
The banking industry, the health care industry, and the energy industry...

for starters.

That'd fix A LOT of problems, right there...


As I Tried To Show In Several Diaries This Weekend (4.00 / 4)
Obama seems to clearly embody the neo-liberal acceptance of movement conservative framing, particularly on economic matters--much like Tony Blair did in 1990s Britain.  It's only within this framing that he exhibits the progressive values that Lakoff talks about, which I discussed in a diary the weekend before.

So my conclusion is not that he's "been successfully backed into advocating solidly progressive policies."  Rather, I think that the stimulus as passed was within the policy parameters of neoliberlism, which has never rejected Keynesianism for the industrialized West, but only for the "developing world."  

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Of COURSE, He Does...Chuy! (4.00 / 2)
I'm not sure if Obama understands that the language  (0.00 / 0)
put into his speeches and statements are"managed democracy" terms that will keep the neo-liberal Shock Doctrine going.

of COURSE he does. The owners wouldn't put anybody in charge who wasn't checked out on all the instruments.

That's why to pretend Bush was a "fuck-up" is ridiculous. The bushiviks did exactly what they were hired and installed to do: wreck the capacity of the "people" to seek recourse from the tyranny of the Corporation.

Mission: Accomplished.

So to imagine Obama doesn't know what he's doing is risible...


Maybe I was being coy which is unusual for me. (4.00 / 2)
I believe that Obama has embraced the Chicago School aka repackaged feudalism and that he is more comfortable with defending the elite system favored by many of our founders.  But sometimes I think he looks a little confused when asked a question.  He seems to be searching for the right answer. It doesn't seem to come from any deep place. Or that, counter to the conventional wisdom, he really doesn't listen to many points of view in much detail. He doesn't seem very complex to me or that he looks too much beneath the surface of things. I read that he was "wowed" by Lawrence Summers.  I'm pretty sure if I had a conversation with Summers I would say to him, "If you can't explain this to me simply than you aren't the genius you think you are."  I would feeled more "slimed" than "wowed".

I agree too with you and the historian Lawrence Shoup that there is a "hidden primary of the ruling class".

Paul Street has done great work on the language of Obama.  His book is not just a criticism of Obama, but a call to arms for the left to get their act together.    


[ Parent ]
"Socialism" of some kind is inevitable... (0.00 / 0)
What is debatable and still to be decided (but not for a lot longer) is what kind of socialism there will be.

Democratic socialism, european style, would be my choice--as against, say, the kind in the PRC or Russia or Pakistan...


Socialism (0.00 / 0)
I agree with the immediately above.  Americans are not really so hostile to socialism, anyway.  The real problem is, not just for Americans but for all the peoples of the world, is there a viable, democratic, and humane alternative out there.  Any ideas?
Also, could it not be argued that the various leftist factions, and not just the neoliberals, helped to narrow the atmosphere, simply by not talking about working-class issues and socialism at all.  Back in the early 20th century leftists-socialists and communists-talked about such issues.  But for the past half-century there has almost been a conspiracy of silence about same issues.  Only the very poor and the discriminated-against groups get any attention.  Maybe one should start talking about such issues again, and try to combine them with the "group" issues.  People like Harry Truman, Robert Kennedy, and Hubert Humphrey did such, it could work.        

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