Frank Rich: Moveon Is a Bunch of Children

by: Matt Stoller

Mon Sep 17, 2007 at 15:29


I loved the Petraeus ad, because it gives us a good window into who throws progressives under the bus when someone actually challenges power.  Here's Chuck Todd, political analyst with NBC.

MoveOn is sort of like this old friend of the Democratic Party. It's as if it's, you know, your, your teen - your - a friend of yours from high school, and you don't mind hanging out with them back in high school, and then they keep showing up at your parties, and they get a little drunk and obnoxious, but you'll still - you're afraid to criticize them because they know too much about you or something.

Moveon's 3 million members are children.  Get it?  And here's liberal columnist Frank Rich:

Americans are looking for leadership, somewhere, anywhere. At least one of the Democratic presidential contenders might have shown the guts to soundly slap the "General Betray-Us" headline on the ad placed by MoveOn.org in The Times, if only to deflate a counterproductive distraction. This left-wing brand of juvenile name-calling is as witless as the "Defeatocrats" and "cut and run" McCarthyism from the right; it at once undermined the serious charges against the data in the Petraeus progress report (including those charges in the same MoveOn ad) and allowed the war's cheerleaders to hyperventilate about a sideshow. "General Betray-Us" gave Republicans a furlough to avoid ownership of an Iraq policy that now has us supporting both sides of the Shiite-vs.-Sunni blood bath while simultaneously shutting America's doors on the millions of Iraqi refugees the blood bath has so far created.

It's also past time for the Democratic presidential candidates to stop getting bogged down in bickering about who has the faster timeline for withdrawal or the more enforceable deadline. Every one of these plans is academic anyway as long as Mr. Bush has a veto pen. The security of America is more important - dare one say it? - than trying to outpander one another in Iowa and New Hampshire.

I don't know where to start on Rich.  He uses all the slurs to go after a Moveon ad while conceding that the charges in the ad are factually correct.  Then he goes on to argue that any attempts to propose a responsible timeline for withdrawal from Iraq is pandering and sacrificing America's security.  And finally, he finishes with a rousing allusion to McCarthyism, as if an ad taken out in the New York Times questioning the integrity of a political leader in uniform based on factual evidence is the equivalent of a Senator using his subpoena power and the power of the state to terrorize thousands with baseless accusations of treason.

Though their work is often good, both Rich and Todd are acting here like lapdogs to the Georgetown cocktail circuit.  And it's moments like this that matter, when the political system is actually under pressure.  It's really sad to see 'journalists' or liberal columnists discuss the ad as if it overshadows the issue at hand, which is a horrific occupation and a civilian and military leadership that betrays the country by justifying it.  .

Matt Stoller :: Frank Rich: Moveon Is a Bunch of Children

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Who's giving the furlough? (4.00 / 2)
..."General Betray-Us" gave Republicans a furlough to avoid ownership of ...Iraq...

Rich and other opinion makers so-called are the ones letting Republicans off the hook by getting caught up in this foolish distraction.  What purpose does it serve to harp on MoveOn's public relations skills while lives and dollars continue to rush down the drain that is Iraq?


The Daily Howler Has All The Goods On Frank Rich (4.00 / 2)
I always cringe whenever I see a diarist on a site like this, or DailyKos praising Frank Rich because he bashed Bush in one of his columns.  Yes, as Matt says, he often does good work.  However, every liberal needs to remember just who Frank Rich is.  He is not our ally, and even when he's on his best behaviour, he should be held at arms length.

If you weren't aware, Frank Rich was one of the most influential people in savaging Al Gore's reputation in the 2000 election.  It was Frank Rich who completely invented the "Love Story" fake controversy that was used to further the narrative that Al Gore was a serial liar and possibly insane.

If you want the full rundown on Frank Rich's savaging of Al Gore, then head on over to www.dailyhowler.com and use their search engine.


Todd, too. (4.00 / 1)
I really like Chuck Todd, actually, although he is generally rather conservative.

In fact, until he left the Hotline for NBC, I used to watch HotlineTV religiously, as his banter with John Mercurio was priceless. The dudical style of the old show hasn't translated terribly well, now that Mercurio hosts with Amy Walters, and I don't watch very often anymore.


[ Parent ]
"liberal columnist Frank Rich" ??? (0.00 / 0)
How Matt Stoller can write that with a straight face is a mystery.

That "liberal" Frank Rich wrote this just one week before the 2000 election:

RICH (11/4/00): In 2000, the fool is the guy who works 24/7 and lets us see all the sweat. That would be Al Gore, who is a hyperventilating fount of worst-case scenarios and details we don't want to bone up on (Dingell-Norwood, anyone?). He is the truly stupid one, for he has given George W. the opening to embody the contented America that his own administration helped to create even as he has failed to weave all his endless policy details into an articulate message that might offer more than populist sloganeering as an alternative to don't-worry-be-happy. The vice president hasn't even been able to make his criticism of his opponent coherent.

hmmm... "fool", "hyperventillating", "truly stupid", "endless policy details"?  and then adds that Gore was not "articulate" or "coherent."  Thanks Frank - with liberal coumnists like him its no wonder we have Bush in the WH.


[ Parent ]
MoveOn Was On the Wrong Side When It Mattered Most (0.00 / 0)
Totally agree with you, Matt, on Rich and Todd's take on the MoveOn ad.  But I have a pretty hard time feeling sorry for MoveOn at this point.

Back in March, before the Democratic-controlled Congress had locked itself into writing endless blank checks for the occupation of Iraq, the Democratic Congressional leadership was struggling to get progressives in the Out of Iraq Caucus to come aboard their Underpants Gnome-like strategy on Iraq:

1) Get Bush to veto an Iraq supplemental with non-binding deadlines.
2) ??????
3) Peace!

MoveOn was happy to assist the Congressional leadership against the Out of Iraq Caucus by endorsing the Pelosi plan following a foreshortened, dishonest polling of MoveOn's membership. Congressional Democrats thus missed the most important chance they had to draw a line in the sand and simply say no to more money for this war.  And MoveOn was a critical player in providing "progressive" cover for keeping the money flowing for the occupation.

As far as I'm concerned, the most significant action that MoveOn has ever taken on Iraq has helped to prolong the war.  The marginal good done by the recent New York Times ad pales in comparison, however wrong the DC cocktail circuit is about it.


I still believe in free speech (0.00 / 0)
So does General Petraeus who as a high ranking member of the military injected himself into the political process prior to the 2004 elections with an op-ed piece, met with Republicans and not Democrats when the Democrats were the majority party and showed up at multiple congressional hearings to report on war and piece without the Secretary of Defense , one or more of the Joint Chiefs or his immediate superior.

Once one has decided politics is in his future they and their supporters must be prepared for a little mud flinging regardless of uniform , which I think he should have left at home and come to the hearing dressed as a civilian. If Patreus wants to be a politician, he should dress like one. I believe as Bush hid behind him, he hid behind his uniform.

If Move-On hadn't called him out, someone else would have and should have. Rich is totally off-base in his criticism and unwittingly is acting as a microphone for the R's. He should have fired on Patreus.

Side note:
I'm glad I found the site that recognizes the danger of the Bush Dogs. I've commented on this repeatedly on Kos and it just doesn't get much attention. People would rather shout at all the Democrats I guess.

Blow up a Bush Dog


[ Parent ]
Well I Can Outdo You! (4.00 / 1)
MoveOn totally slept through the 2000 Florida Election Recount.  So there!

But just what purpose does all this serve?  MoveOn is a relatively fluid organization.  Sometimes it's brilliant, sometimes it's asleep on the job.  But you know what?  It's one of the most effective progressive organizations around.  And right now, it really seems to be on a tear.  You can tell by just how many Versailles insiders have gotten the vapors over them lately.

I'm all for the proposition that they could be more consistent and coherent in their advocacy.  But bashing them now over what they did months ago...

Hey, I've got an even better one!  They didn't even bother to form in time to defeat the Contract On America!

What a bunch of useless losers!

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
My Point Is Not What MoveOn Didn't Do... (0.00 / 0)
...but what it did.

An effective progressive organization cannot be afraid to catch flack from the right and the beltway crowd. But catching flack from the right and the beltway crowd does not, in and of itself, constitute success. 

MoveOn's successful, quite affirmative effort to marginalize the most progressive and staunchly antiwar Democrats was, sadly, of much more consequence than the Betray-us ad.  Far from being a sign of their occasionally being "asleep at the wheel," it was actually a good example of the organization's effectiveness (if not its progressiveness).  A very good case can be made that MoveOn was crucial in roping in the final few votes in favor a funding bill that could easily have been defeated had the anti-war caucus stuck to their principles and voted against it.

And unlike Florida in 2000 (which MoveOn could have done more about) and the Contract On America (which they obviously couldn't), their endorsement of Congress's passing war funding in March involves exactly the same issue as the Betray-us ad.  Your implication that I'm somehow changing the subject or trying to dig up ancient history won't fly. 

 


[ Parent ]
I'm Not Saying You're Changing The Subject (4.00 / 1)
I'm saying you're crying over spilt milk.

Time to move on.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Have to disagree (0.00 / 0)
... with you on the criticism of Rich, in this instance.  Rich has been very astute in critiquing messaging, and on this one I think he's right, in noting that the Moveon ad was unnecessarily ad hominem.  As such, it:
-- was weaker than it have been,
-- provided the forces of darkness with an easy out,
-- probably stimulated, rather than demoralized, the Bush-base,
-- played into the "peacies hate the troops" meme left over from Vietnam and
-- would foreseeably be a turnoff to the three or four people in the universe who don't already have a firm opinion. 

If Moveon is looking to do more than preach to the choir, its money might be better spent with more intelligent messaging. 
(By contrast, Moveon's rejoinder to Giuliani, who invited an ad hominem response, was a very deft pivot.) 


Yeah, cool off a bit (0.00 / 0)
Neither Rich nor MoveOn are perfect, but they are among the most effective anti-Republican actors.

Rich can be viciously satisfying in his take-downs, in contrast to Maureen Dowd is just stupidly snarky.

MoveOn activates a lot of voters. It is an extra-Party organization. I'd rather an organization of 3 million who mostly agree with me, than 100,000 who always agree with me.

By gosh we need some pundits with Rich's word skills attacking Bush and the Republican Party, and we damn-sure need an organization big enough to pressure the Democratic Party from outside the box.


[ Parent ]
You Need To Read What Lakoff Had To Say About It (4.00 / 3)
Here.

You really have to read the whole piece to get the full argument, but the core point is that MoveOn is fighting to establish a new frame--one that Lakoff himself has argued for long before--and those who bash it are playing Bush's game.  A few highlights:

New York Times columnist Frank Rich, right about so many things, got it wrong when he criticized the ad in his Sunday column.

He overlooks the fact that the "distraction" he worries about has led the supporters of the Iraq occupation to endlessly evoke the Betrayal of Trust frame, identifying themselves with the Betrayer of Trust in that frame. The betrayers themselves took MoveOn's bait.

Thanks to their making it a national issue, we can now proceed to discuss their Betrayal of Trust on the national stage they have conveniently provided. The importance of this frame is discussed in "Betrayal of Trust: Beyond Lying" - Chapter 6 of Don't Think of an Elephant!

Betrayal is a moral issue, and with respect to war, mass destruction, maiming, and death, it is a moral issue of the highest order. Betraying trust is a matter of deception that knowingly leads to significant harm. There is little doubt that the Iraq War and its aftermath have done considerable harm - to our troops, to the Iraqi people, and to our nation as whole. It is equally clear that there has been a considerable amount of deception in the instigation of the war and throughout the occupation. In short, there has been, and continues to be, a considerable betrayal of trust. It goes well beyond the general and the fudging of his figures....

Bush took advantage of certain conventions of etiquette and politeness when he sent Petraeus to testify before Congress. Those conventions hold that one does not criticize the symbolic stand-in for the military, even when the uniform-wearing stand-in is on an overt political mission that is at the heart of the Administration's continuing betrayal of trust. Decorum can be put to political use, and Bush did just that.

Bush was using a familiar right-wing tactic: identifying himself with a military uniform and the stature of the military in general, when he had no military stature himself. Rudy Guiliani used the same tactic in his ad in Friday's New York Times: by associating himself with Petraeus' rank and role, hoping some of the stature of the military would rub off on him. The implicit message is an attack on MoveOn: in pointing out Petraeus' deception, MoveOn, so Giuliani implies, was being disrespectful of the military itself. This is a typical right-wing attack on progressives, and progressives shouldn't stand for it. They should not be allowed to hide behind the troops. The troops themselves have been betrayed. None of us wants to hear it, to know it, to acknowledge it. Least of all me. It disgusts me how the troops have been betrayed by people saying, "Support our troops." But it is true, and millions of us must start saying so. There are unacknowledged villains behind this carnage.

The last point here is what is key, for me.  The big taboo is to face up to how the troops themselves have been betrayed.  This is the one thing we aren't ever supposded to talk about.  And, of course, it's the key to ending all this madness.

p.s. No accident, by the way, that MoveOn has upped the ante by extending the Betrayal meme with a further attack on Guliani.  He walked right into that one.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Speaking of the Troops (0.00 / 0)
Has anyone looked into the origin of the "General Betray Us" insult?  Moveon didn't just think of it last week.

I've been hearing for a year or more, albeit second hand, that the General's own troops started calling him that.  He was apparantly a well liked commander who was then perceived to have sold out the interests of those under him for politics. 


[ Parent ]
Lakoff (0.00 / 0)
is so right. We have allowed the right wing to frame every argument, and subsequently have lost every argument. Have you noticed how the discussion changed after the MoveOn ad, and focused on the credibility of Petreus/Betrayus?  We were betrayed when they sold us this war, and we have been betrayed every step of the way by this warmongering administration. It's time we start to frame the argument honestly; the first step in solving a problem is admitting it exists. And if we don't, I fear Iran is next.....

[ Parent ]
Right on the money, Matt (4.00 / 1)
Great post!

Just a personal anecdote (4.00 / 2)
  Last Friday evening I had dinner with my parents and my brother and sister-in-law. All wingnuts.

  My brother baited me with a MoveOn crack, thinking I'd be as suitably appalled by the ad as most "respectable" liberals were. Well, I defended MoveOn and the ad, and he was most definitely NOT ready for that. And better yet, he had no further response -- his game plan had been to get me to disavow MoveOn and have me show "weakness" so he could "win", and when that didn't happen the conversation turned to where the fresh corn came from. I didn't even have to use my Oliver North example.

  Inspired by that little episode, I tossed MoveOn some mojo the next day.

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


Yeah, It's Amazing Simple (4.00 / 2)
Wingut:  "You're mean and wrong!"

Us'ns: "Not so much."

Wingnut: "How 'bout them Bears/Huskies/Lemmings!"

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
Lemmings? (4.00 / 1)
How bad does a team have to be to be called the Lemmings? Strangely appropriate for wingnuts, but still.

Even I think that's silly, and there genuinely is a soccer team about 25 miles away from me nicknamed the Tractor Boys.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


[ Parent ]
Frank Rich has it backwards (4.00 / 3)
  The EASY thing for the Democrats to have done would have been to merrily dump on MoveOn with the rest of the Very Serious People. It would have netted the Dems a couple of approving lines in the next David Broder column, and to many of them, there is no greater treasure or achievement.

  Instead, with a couple of exceptions (notably Elizabeth Edwards and Joe Biden), the Dems pretty much held their fire and declined to jump on the bandwagon. And see, Dems? The world didn't end.

  Now, why is Chuck Hagel launching tougher missiles at Petraeus than any Democrat is? That's the next thing we need to work on...

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


Hard, Easy, It's Hard To Tell Them Apart (4.00 / 1)
Both of them being 4-letter words and all.

(Chuckie boy a MoveOn member?  As Judy Tenuda says, "It could happen!")

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"


[ Parent ]
The mistake Rich makes ... (4.00 / 1)
... is in assuming that the outrage of Republicans matters.

The "distraction" that Rich and others claims this is is, at best, temporary. Reality will push (and already has pushed) it off the field.

In the meantime, the central message of the ad, that Petraeus can't be trusted to give an honest assessment of what is going on in Iraq, an opinion shared by the majority of Americans, was validated by the ad.

The ad forced the Republicans into hugging Petraeus to their chests even tighter, thus pushing the association between him and themselves even further into the American psyche. As goes Petraeus, as goes Iraq, so goes the Republican party.


not distracting (0.00 / 0)
I agree with Rich.  Moveon.org made a tactical mistake by making the "betray us" line the subject of debate rather than the content.  If they had written "Will the General honor his promise?", they would have raised the same issue without (in many peoples' minds) calling the Petraeus a traitor.  The sophomoric pun (still agreeing with Rich) doesn't make the authors seem very sophisticated.

rich may be (0.00 / 0)
sort of "on our side" but when it comes down to it, the nearest thing to conventional wisdom will do. Can anybody call his depiction of MoveOn surprising? It's like a computer wrote it, and a high school kid jazzed it up. The problem is that conventional wisdom has been wrong for seven years, and looks to be hurting for a long time to come.

Ain't Frank amusing? (4.00 / 1)
Frank Rich is a dilettante.  Frankie can be amusing and likes to think he's both amusing and clever.  And, sometimes he is.  And, sometimes his cleverness works to the advantage of the Democrats, and sometimes it doesn't.  Rich, Dowd, Collins are all a bit too glib, and too clever by half because that's all they aspire to be.  It bothers me not at all that Frankie (a media critic in his former life, I believe) didn't like the MoveOn ad.  I'm delighted to see that betray us meme grow legs.  And, MoveOn should avail themselves of every opportunity to deploy it so they can keep control of the meme.  This isn't one we want to lose control of.  MoveOn is kind of like the dog that actually caught the car it was chasing.  That theme needs to be carefully managed.

Way too kind (0.00 / 0)
Frank Rich is a pig, someone who cares more, much more for the pitch of his grand disemboweling rhetoric, than for the fate of the Republic. He has no moral compass and no underlying vision whatsoever, but chooses his topic with an eye to who will be the most easy to heap scorn on with grand effect, the weaker the better (except sometimes he misjudges). Wasn't this fucker a TV critic? That's the level. Great big game for this cretin. Think Modo with brains and homicidal intent.

MoveOn's Gaffe--like Dean's (0.00 / 0)
Gaffe -- the truth that media and politicians pounds you for saying it-- like Gov Dean's.

Funny--Move On was factually correct but gets pounded for saying so.

So what do you say to a General who fudges the facts and allow himself to be used to spin the facts--what does he do to our trust for him?

So when Democrats like Kerry blast MoveOn --are they saying Gen Petreus is correct--that his facts are correct and that he is credible and should be believed.

What we do with Gov Dean's Gaffes--we donate--

Defend MoveOn--Donate



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