In Search Of New Debate Formats

by: Chris Bowers

Fri Jul 13, 2007 at 19:51


Even if it was not supposed to be public, I am glad that Democratic candidates are starting to voice frustrations with existing debate formats. Edwards is apparently leading the charge:

An angry Dennis Kucinich lashed out at John Edwards today, saying his Democratic rival showed "a consistent lack of integrity" by suggesting fewer candidates should participate in presidential forums and then trying to explain his remark to reporters.(...)

Kucinich's comments came after Edwards and Hillary Rodham Clinton were overheard Thursday discussing the possibility of limiting the number of participants in future presidential forums.

In an exchange captured on camera and open microphone by broadcasters after an NAACP forum in Detroit, Edwards approached Clinton onstage and whispered in her ear.

"We should try to have a more serious and a smaller group," Edwards said, and Clinton agreed.

"Our guys should talk," Clinton said, complaining the format had "trivialized" the discussion.

Considering that Kucinich has agreed to a "debate" on right-wing propaganda outlet Fox News, I am not particularly moved by his claims about "integrity" when it comes to debates. However, considering the struggles of lower-tier candidates for media attention, I can also understand his desire to make an issue out of this. So, I don't plan to get angry at him over this, either.

No matter how it may end up being portrayed in the media, I think Edwards is right to try and seek new debate formats. The established format of having eight candidates on a stage at the same time providing 60-second answers, in random order, to questions that generally lack focus simply does not work for anyone. Voters do not learn much about candidates. Issues are not discussed in depth. There is no meaningful exchanges between candidates, and candidates themselves have little chance to offer more than sound-bite insight into their ideas for America. These formats are so awful, that even a political junkie like myself can't watch them.  We need something better.

So far, I think the most compelling candidate forums have been produced by MoveOn.org. By giving each candidate 5-10 minutes of interrupted time to answer questions on a focus issue--first Iraq, and now global warming--Democratic primary voters can actually learn useful things about each candidate. For example, back in April it was during the MoveOn.org forum on Iraq where Bill Richardson began to receive real traction for his "no residual troops" proposal for Iraq. That was useful. That was insightful. Watching Mike Gravel ask Barack Obama who he wanted to nuke was not useful, even if it was a little funny.

The candidates themselves, including "lower-tier" candidates such as Kucinich, need to start engaging in more pushback against the format of the televised "debates." It would be a mistake for Kucinich to cling to existing debate formats simply because it puts him on stage with the other candidates. What we all need are forums where every candidate is able to go more in depth on focused areas of political ideology and public policy. I don't know if his suggestions are the best way to go, but at least Edwards is thinking about new possibilities (from the same article linked above):

For his part, Edwards told reporters in Iowa that he wasn't in favor of barring anyone from future gatherings. Rather, he said he wanted to see them separated into two groups of four each, chosen randomly.

"The result would be that we would have a much more serious discussion and people would actually be able to see what the differences are between us," he said.

Kucinich called Edwards' explanation "disturbing" and said he planned to contact Edwards and Clinton immediately to demand an apology.

By immediately demanding an apology for even suggesting that we change an awful debate format, Kucinich reminds me of otherwise progressive Democrats who join in calls for immediate apologies whenever anyone even questions AIPAC's right-wing approach to the Israeli-Palestinian issue. No matter who poorly the status quo may be working, for some reason changing debate formats, much like changing American policy in Israel, is something that you are not even allowed to talk about, much less openly support.

Kucinich is better than that, and instead of demanding an apology, he should work with Edwards and Clinton to find a debate format that actually works. Right now, our debate formats just plain suck. Chris Dodd, another "lower-tier" candidate, has even shown that, in terms of candidate talk time, existing formats are more unfair to candidates like Kucinich than MoveOn.org style debates. If Kucinich wants to maintain that sort of caste system, it is his prerogative. However, I think it would be better for everyone if we came up with some new ways to conduct these debates.

Right to Respond: Dennis Kucinich

Chris Bowers :: In Search Of New Debate Formats

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candidates answering questions on youtube debate (0.00 / 0)
Why don't they start now?

Gravel should definitely go (0.00 / 0)
He just wastes space when he's up there. Kucinich isn't as bad as he's made out to be, but he's equally not as serious.

My only nightmare of a longer-running debate is Bill Richardson droning on and on...and on...he is the worst debater I have ever seen.


How about match-ups (4.00 / 1)
Over the course of a 90-minute debate, you actually have a series of smaller debates between randomly selected match-ups. For example, you could get:

DEBATE 1
Hillary Clinton
Mike Gravel

DEBATE 2
John Edwards
Dennis Kucinich

DEBATE 3
Joe Biden
Chris Dodd

DEBATE 4
Bill Richardson
Barack Obama


Variation on Head-to-Head Matchups (4.00 / 1)
Here's a another variation on the matchup concept:

The moderator asks a specific question and two randomly selected candidates go head-to-head to debate the question. The next question goes to a different pair, selected from the remaining candidates, until all candidates have had a chance to debate a question. Then, they are all thrown back into the mix, and the process starts over. You could make a rule that no particular matchup can be repeated during the course of a debate, thereby maximizing the number of permutations.

This means we might get to see Edwards and Clinton go head-to-head on a question about Iraq, or Obama and Richardson go head-to-head on Healthcare. It would also more closely simulate what the eventual nominees will face when they debate their Republican counterparts. Finally, it would give folks an extra bathroom/popcorn break if the Kucinich vs Gravel combo came up (or Biden vs Dodd for you Kucinich and Gravel fans).


[ Parent ]
debates (0.00 / 0)
I agree that the debates have been far less than productive, but I don't think excluding people who are subjectively considered "not serious" by Edwards and Clinton is the right answer (one could make the argument that since Richardson, Dodd, and Biden are the most experienced in public policy matters, maybe the frontrunners should be excluded from debate...)

the principle (0.00 / 0)
Kucinich gets pissed at Edwards and Clinton.

According to the author of the quote Bowers' uses, Kucinich's reason is because they suggest "fewer candidates should participate in presidential forums".

Then, Kucinich invites Clinton and Edwards to their own 3-person debate....

So, it seems as if fewer candidates is okay, as long as he is invited.


If John and Hillary are so concerned, (0.00 / 1)
why don't they call the other candidates together and see if they can work out a better format that includes everyone?  It makes much more sense than 'our campaigns should get together' between the two of them.

Trust no organization bigger than two, and even those are suspect.

it has to start somewhere. (0.00 / 1)


[ Parent ]
Insulting Our Intelligence (4.00 / 2)
"Kucinich called Edwards' explanation "disturbing" and said he planned to contact Edwards and Clinton immediately to demand an apology."

This clown has already gotten far more attention than his pathetic candidacy deserves.


He's the only (2.00 / 2)
voice bringing impeachment (H.R. 333)to the stage of presidential candidates. I think that voice is vital.

[ Parent ]
Kucinich is important (4.00 / 1)
I don't want to see a Democratic movement that marginalizes the most progressive voice out there, it's partially how we got into this whole mess to begin with (the state of the Democratic Party, that is).  Don't vote for him if you don't want to, but it's important that the Left to hear the full spectrum of its voices--it's how you avoid candidacies like Nader 2000.

[ Parent ]
The Problem is the Messenger, Not the Message (0.00 / 0)
I would never suggest that Kucinich be marginalized because of his politics. I agree that we need voices across the spectrum. But they should be effective voices. And Kucinich is so ineffective that he marginalizes himself and makes it easier to dismiss the message.

[ Parent ]
That's a valid point. (0.00 / 0)
Perhaps we should probe the reasons why Kucinich is to ineffective, or ask why no one else out there can/will "take over" for him.  If only Russ Feingold had decided to run...

[ Parent ]
Subverting our choices (0.00 / 0)
"This clown has already gotten far more attention than his pathetic candidacy deserves."

Which one, Edwards, or Kuchinich?


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Clarification (0.00 / 0)
I was referring to Kucinich.

[ Parent ]
I agree, (4.00 / 2)
Chris Dodd or Joe Biden are not going to be POTUS.  Mike Gravel, is straight up "throwback".  Kucinich, need to concentrate on his "day job, the house", because seem like his district may be fed up with him and this every four years.

The only ones on the stage need to be Clinton, Edwards, Obama and Richardson.

Now, a real debate can start and not 30 sec "sound bites".


I Agree With Chris (4.00 / 1)
The way the debates are now nobody can get anything out of them.  The only time a candidate gets attention is by making a joke or by pandering to the crowd to get them to clap real loud.  After the debate that will be all the MSM who have a short attention span will be talking about.  Time has come to throw away the old debate formats and come up with something more fun and exciting at least not boring.

[ Parent ]
I Agree With Chris (0.00 / 0)
Time has come to throw away the old debate formats and come up with something more fun and exciting at least not boring. 

You want fun? Go watch a Harry Potter movie. This is serious business and to assume that the debates are going to entertain you is part of what's wrong with the country today. That's what brought us Reagan and Schwarzenegger and Thompson the undeclared candidated. We don't need to be 'entertained', we need representation and leadership.


[ Parent ]
I am not talking about a game show (0.00 / 0)
If the debates were more entertaining, people would stay up to watch them.  When I say more entertaining, I don't mean like a reality show.  I just mean there has to be a better way of doing debates.  I bet you most young people in this country don't even watch the debates.  They would if the debates could be less boring.

[ Parent ]
What's Wrong with Reality? (0.00 / 0)
Most of our politicians seem to live in a kind of netherworld where the realities of everyday life don't seem to penetrate.

Do you think that George HW Bush was the ONLY Presidential candidate that never did his own shopping?

Besides - the election compaign is so long - we have time for both - the game show contests AND the serious debates on policy.  Its not Either/Or - its Both/And.

Why not try to probe more about these folks than simply how well they can answer a set of questions?


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
What's positve about limiting our choices? (4.00 / 1)
Wait, wait a minute.

How can you equate Edwards wanting "a smaller and more serious group" --- code words for his wanting to limit our choices to him the other candidates most favored by corporate media -- with anything positive? 

"If you want that good feeling that comes from doing things for other people, then you have to pay for it in abuse and misunderstanding..."
Zora Neale Hurston


i have a feeling (0.00 / 0)
a lot more people would be upset if it were obama and clinton getting together to exclude the other candidates

[ Parent ]
Limiting Choices is Positive (0.00 / 0)
If you are at the top and feeling just a little bit more challenged than you had expected.....

Perfect way to to stabilize the shakey ground beneath your feet.

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Falling on their swords (4.00 / 6)
While I have sent money to support Edwards, I can't help but agree with Kucinich. Were it not for the 'far left' candidates who appear in the debates, the progressives would not have a voice. As I previously said, I have sent $$ to Edwards and support many of his positions BUT I also agree with both Kucinich and GRAVEL on many of their positions and observations. Perhaps these martyrs will have a direct influence on the position of the current front runners. One can only hope...

asdf (0.00 / 0)
Even with the one minute answers and no debate, none of the candidates where able distinguish themselves adequately. Except for Gravel who really played the court jester that morning. The NAACP forum was a great pep rally. Obama had overwhelming audience support and built on the momentum.

I left Cobo thinking the big stage had run it's course. There's a lot of meat under the skin in the candidates that forum revealed, and I'd like to get into it. It was good to see them in the flesh, human. And, the lower tier candidates have vital niche arguments that keep the audience cautious and the front runners fallable.

Gravel warned us voters, "You'll get what you deserve".

I think the idea of random selection for a fewer candidate forum, is a great idea.



Better Format (4.00 / 1)
Ideal format: two candidates, each in a booth with a camera, monitor, microphone, and a button.  The button turns off that microphone and turns on the other one.  Both are on camera all the time, split-screen. When a candidate's mike has been active for 50% of the allotted time, it turns off and the other guy gets the rest of the time.  No moderator, no audience, no other rules; maybe a "suggested" topic.  Flip a coin 30 seconds before air time to see whose mike is active first.

To select the two candidates for a given debate, use the latest poll to weigh each candidate's probability by their position in the poll, then select two at random.  The front-runners would be more apt to be selected, but everybody would have a chance.  One such debate, hour-long, every night from now until the election, broadcast live on a major network/channel, video, audio, and transcriptions available on the intertubes.  After the party conventions, the nominees debate each other, including third ... ninety-ninth party candidates with the same selection method.


Elizabeth Edwards on MyDD said: (4.00 / 1)
How about believing me? (3.00 / 9)

John meant what he said in Iowa: he wants smaller groups (or longer debates) so that there can be an end to the notion that a candidate can skate through the debates with sound bite answers.  Everyone has sixty seconds to explain their helath care plan and John's truly universal plan ends up sounding just like a "plan" to talk about health care.  It does a disservice to the voters.  Since no one (maybe not even the candidates' spouses!) would watch a three hour debate, it seems more sensible to have a series of randomly constituted smaller groups.  Listen, John wants to talk about substance; that should be no surprise.  And the format with this many candidates doesn't allow that to happen.  If you have an idea that would work, let us know. Or better yet, let MSNBC and CNN know.

by ElizabethEdwards on Sat Jul 14, 2007 at 12:27:28 AM EST

http://www.mydd.com/...

I think she has a point.


Ain't it funny, ha-ha . . . (0.00 / 0)
. . . how the NCAA, NAIA & NIT can work out tiers & brackets & bies, etc. for all manner of sports contests, but our lame stream media & politicians can't set up a workable "seeding" for presidential candidates.

Who the fuck are these people & how they hell did they get into positions of legislative & administrative & journalistic power?

Even an assembly of softball coaches can handle this sort of petty shit.  Every bowler in the USA is more skilled at this low-level contest management than these politicians.

You know why they don't have ice water at the debates?  Because the last presidential candidate who knew the recipe retired in 1976.

What a collection of foolz.


Just get more inventive and creative (0.00 / 0)
There is plenty of time to include everyone.

Sit all the candidates around a dining table and let them have their political discussions like we do at home.

Pick a city/town/village and get the candiates out into the public.  Town halls - meet and greet and the street - pick a park and take questions for two hours.  They could pair up - or go in threes.

But - really - the best thing for any of the debates I have seen - get better moderators that will actually follow-up on a question. 

Have a session, or two, where the candiates discuss who they would like to have in their cabinets. 

Give each a shopping list of common items and ask them to please stop by and pick them up on the way home from work.

See if they can change a flat tire - or iron their own shirt/blouse. 

The campaigns are so long and boring - I want to see more of the entertainment side of politics.  All the serious discussions are too dull.  If you want more participation, take a page from American Idol and such - more flash and less substance.

Not only will it better represent the true nature of American politics, it will be more fun.  And I think that we can all agree that we need more fun - especially in the kind of world in which we live.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


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