Patience Required (4.00 / 1)

"I'm getting a bit tired of seeing uncritical assertions that Republican leaders are breaking with Bush on Iraq.  They won't because they can't.  This is a huge strategic problem for the GOP longterm, because it means they have a base voter whose beliefs are fundamentally opposed to those of most Americans."

I think you're a bit premature in your judgment when you say "They won't because they can't." We are watching political evolution unfold before our eyes. We are seeing Republicans take baby steps in breaking with Bush's Iraq policy. Those steps to date are reflected in a change in rhetoric, not policy. But faced with a sustained series of votes forcing them to match policy with rhetoric, the Republicans will be forced to decide. And time is on our side.

The key question for progressives is this: how do we play this so we can attract enough Republican votes to end the war while  ensuring that they don't slip the noose in November 2008?

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by: Spike @ Sun Jul 15, 2007 at 08:41:02 AM CDT

The Republicans are playing the Democrats (4.00 / 2)

They are NOT taking baby steps towards us.  In the last vote that killed the Webb amendment there were 41 votes against cloture, there always will be 41 votes against cloture.  They will let some of their group who are in danger for the next election to vote against the group as long as they have the right numbers.  We are not peeling off any votes.  They are not taking baby steps in breaking with Bush's policy.  They are being more subtle in their lies.  Anyone who thinks otherwise is being played for a fool and they do this often with Democrats.  Have we learned nothing?

Time is not on our side.  We have over 3,600 dead troops, tens of thousands maimed, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead, and over half a trillion dollars in debt.  The carnage continues and the robbing of our treasury continues to fill the coffers of Haliburton and other friends of the Bush cabal. 

How in heaven's name can anyone say have patience, time is on our side, is beyond me.  This is not a premature assertion by Matt Stoller.  It is an understanding that is far too late for many Democrats and Obama supporters still don't get it.  The Republicans have been so well immersed in their illusions, so successful with their strategy and so well trained that they will not co-operate with Democrats.  But they will pretend. 

Democrats like Levin have to understand this point and not hope for something different.  They have to act as if no Republican will co-operate, because none will, even if a few vote with Democrats.  Democrats have to claim their own future or they will be out maneuvered by the Republicans.  We will have more deaths and more loss of resources for our children and our citizens.  I have no more patience with those who want patience.  It is utter folly.

Join other progressives at EENRblog

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by: pioneer @ Sun Jul 15, 2007 at 10:29:31 AM CDT

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Lest we forget (0.00 / 0)

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Republicans are hardliners.

"Challenging the status quo"

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by: Oui @ Sun Jul 15, 2007 at 11:25:28 AM CDT

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Neo-Cons out maneuvered everyone (0.00 / 0)

They used the Fundamentalists to get Bush II elected (with a little help from their Courtly friends), then used fear and the media to get the US military into Iraq (and out of Saudi Arabia, by the way), which had been a Republican Hawk goal for close to 40 years.  Now that the war has gone so damned badly that one just has to stop and wonder whether Rumsfeld, et al. actually ever wanted to win anything in Iraq other than an excuse to keep thousands of US soldiers in country to protect "US assets", the Democrats will step in to "fix" the problem by doing just what Rumsfeld had planned.

Or, did I miss something that any of the Democratic front-runners has said?

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

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by: SpitBall @ Mon Jul 16, 2007 at 08:23:22 AM CDT

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Voter Analysis (0.00 / 0)

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Remember, one can win the primary but lose on election day.

In many Western-European democracies, one sees similarities with the US politics: a 50-50 split at the polls between left and right oriented parties. In parliamentary systems with many parties, you can even distinquish the growth of extreme right and the left spectre of the electorate. Family values, morality, immigration and security are all common benchmarks where opinions are formed. The voters are not spending time to make a study of party platforms to form their choice at the election box. The voter will follow the debates on MSM outlets, listen to the sound bites and finally a large group of 'swing voters' (30%) decide at the last moment in the voting booth.

One does see a major trend upwards of people actually casting their vote! The only true poll is the election itself. There are major discrepencies with the final poll numbers, even in Germany known for its historic accuracy in polling.

"Challenging the status quo"

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by: Oui @ Sun Jul 15, 2007 at 08:48:14 AM CDT

It's not just iraq (0.00 / 0)

They're considering primarying  uberhawks like Lindsay Graham who disagree with right-wing orthodoxy on other issues.

Immigration is obviously also a huge strategic problem for the GOP.

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by: tparty @ Sun Jul 15, 2007 at 11:04:57 AM CDT

The Republican base is a disaster for the GOP. (0.00 / 0)

In fact, one of the only reasonable predictions would be to say that the Republican base will drop out of politics within 12 years.  The talk radio establishment has cultivated a base that is so wildly out of line with the Dems and the Indycrats that the GOP base just can't possibly get what they want for any extended period of time and not lose elections.  The base knows what it wants to hear now, and it's such an impossible list of undeliverables that any candidate who promises them what they want to hear is unelectable in 60% of districts.  And if they consistently can't get what they want from the ones they can elect, and can't elect the ones who promise them what they want, then at some point it would be reasonable to predict that they develop learned helplessness and drop out.  Of the entire system.  The fundagelicals and the nativists both.

Now, they're authoritarians and they do as they're told, so that's one reason they may never drop out.  Although Rush Limbaugh has to be wondering at what point he might finally lose credibility with these people.  But more importantly, once Democrats win, they'll have 1) an enemy to hate unreservedly, and 2) a Republican party that can promise whatever the hell it wants to without having to deliver on it.  Once the GOP can promise the moon again and not actually have to legislate, then we might return to the historical norm, in which these GOP troglodytes are constantly agitated by the Powers That Be and yet never rewarded with anything more than symbolic scraps.

Anyway, the GOP certainly does have a base problem, and Chuck Hagel and Lindsay Graham and John McCain are all running into it.  Tom Davis and Scott McInnis too.

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by: texas dem @ Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 16:31:50 PM CDT

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