What Would a "Deal" Look Like?

by: Mike Lux

Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 16:07


Historically in politics, when different factions within a given political party are fighting with each other, one of the following things happens:

-One faction scores an overwhelming victory, marginalizing the other for a long period of time. The best example of this was the conservative-moderate Republican fight of the 1960s. Although the two factions co-existed in earlier days, to a great extent in the Nixon/Ford era, and to a lesser extent during Reagan and the first Bush's 12 years, over time the "Rockefeller Republicans" lost the battle and never recovered, and have become more and more marginalized over the last 40 years.

-The factions cut a deal and agreed to uneasily co-exist for at least a while. Think here of Southern segregationists and northern liberals in the New Deal coalition, or labor/progressives and the DLC in the Clinton years.

Those of us in the progressive movement obviously all hope that over the long run, in both the Democratic Party and the country as a whole, we gain a clear, strong and long-term progressive majority to allow us to move forward on all major issues we care about. However, the direction of the Democratic Party will be driven, as it inevitably is, by the next Democratic President, and based on everything we know now, that person will be a mixed figure in terms of the progressive agenda. There is simply no major candidate running who isn't pretty good on many issues and moderately bad, or at least beholden to conventional wisdom, on others. (I'm guessing we will win the presidency in 2008, but if not, Party leadership will continue to be a mishmash of different leaders.)

In the Clinton years, Clinton handled the tension in the Party by siding with DLC types on two major issues, trade and welfare reform; siding more with progressives on some others- Family and Medical Leave, Motor Voter, minimum wage, abortion, children's health care, and some of the big budget fights; and trying to split the difference on a great many other issues. The progressive community waged losing fights against Clinton and his corporate and Republican allies on trade and on welfare reform, and occasionally railed against DLC-style politics in op-eds and speeches, but generally went along with the uncomfortable alliance for a couple of reasons. The first was that the groups representing progressive politics were at the table, were being listened to, and were getting some of what they wanted. The second was that with the 1994 elections, the specter of right-wingers in control of Congress made progressives distinctly aware of the dangers of not being allied with Clinton.

If we retain control of Congress (perhaps even expanding our margin, as currently seems likely), and elect a Democratic President, the political dynamics will be quite different. The combination of the Democrats being firmly in control of Congress, public opinion having moved generally in the progressive direction since the mid-1990s, and the progressive movement being revitalized and empowered all shift the nature of the playing field.

This raises a series of questions in my head that I'd like to get the OpenLeft.com community's collective wisdom to start chewing on:

1. Knowing that the new President will be more center than left, and that the Democratic leadership will likely be the same in the next Congress as it is now, it is likely that progressives will be asked to live with the same kind of co-existence deal with DLC types that we had in the 1990s. How do we respond to such a deal?

2. What would the nature of such a deal look like? What would we oppose no matter what, demand that we get no matter what, agree to negotiate on?

3. Given the dispersed and democratic nature of the online movement, where it is up to everybody to decide for themselves what they will and won't support, is this kind of traditional "deal"- the kind of deal that traditional groups and power brokers might agree to- even possible? Or desirable? Or is it better to think in terms of each blogger, each online activist, making their own decisions on what to support or oppose on each issues, and not even getting into the insider-y world of negotiations and deal-making.

4. What would "a deal" look like prior to the 2008 election? Once a nominee is picked, what role do online activists want to play in helping that nominee win? How important is it that online activists work to hold the Democratic nominee accountable, and push them to move the right way on issues, during the general election campaign?

5. Given the fundamentally different nature of the netroots vs. more traditional styled organizations, do you have ideas about how to make sure online activists' views are really heard?

I ask those questions because I hope they will start an interesting discussion about the nature of the Open Left (the movement, not the blog). Does this movement want to be "at the table" in the conventional way that organizations and power blocs have always gotten themselves invited to the table in the past? Or is there more value in continuing to stay firmly planted on the outside? I can see it both ways, and will be interested in the discussion.

Mike Lux :: What Would a "Deal" Look Like?

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this is a really good question. (0.00 / 0)
because outside of promotions to cabinet level positions, neither Hoyer and Emmanuel are going anywhere, and they are both corporatist types that, while partisan... are not exactly progressive or into progressive ideas.

We need to stake out ground on what we want very soon.

Besides controlling the executive and legislative branches will emblazon Republicans to be even more of an opposition party.

we'll need to strike fast, hard and be all the more effective.

I think the template of the open source legislation (like Dick Durbin stopping by here), could very well serve is in the future on those folks who might want to talk tot us in the netroots.

-C.


open sourse legislation. (0.00 / 0)
I very much agree, have been telling Matt and others that I think the Leg 2.0 thing he did with Durbin is a great model for the future.

[ Parent ]
I like that term- Open Source Legislation- Take From MoveOn (4.00 / 1)
Perhaps the blogs could take a page from MoveOn this.

When MoveOn ends a series of campaigns and wants to plan a new series they poll their 3 million members

They allow their 3 million members to make suggestions and to vote on the suggestions as they are made.

As this occurs the list of action items gets quite long-but as people are voting on them, 5-10 items emerge as clear mandates.

Perhaps the blogs could set up something similar- run a standing survey at any blog wanting to participate (hopefully ones like Open Left Dkos, FDLake, Atrios etc.) (or even create a single site linked to and from all participating blogs), allowing members to suggest and vote on items to back and items to concede on. Once there is a mandate of 10 and 10 or 20 and 20, we then chose the golden action items.

A bit complex but a workable idea.

We won the Battle. Now the Real Fight for Change Begins. Join MoveOn.org and fight for progressive change.  


[ Parent ]
Cool idea. (0.00 / 0)
I like the idea of a rolling survey, a constant feedback loop as new issues and policy ideas are debated.

[ Parent ]
A very interesting post (4.00 / 1)
Thank Mike; a lot to consider.

I think there are three big issues we should not concede ground on: Middle East Policy, Global Warming/Green Energy, Healthcare. These are all ticking bombs-- if left untouched they will grow exponentially as problems.

Healthcare: People are primed for a big healthcare debate. All around the country people are talking about SCHIP and clearly the conservatives look bad opposing it. Momentum is on our side.

Middle East: Unles something major changes, no war with Iran. It would be a terrible and costly blunder. Out of Iraq: at the very least all major combat troops out Iraq and redployed and rotated to lots of shore leave to rebuild the military and the morale. Momentum here is clearly on our side.

Green Energy/Green Jobs/Green Economy: Once again momentum is on our side. Green Energy is a hot topic-- people want us to be more secure (less dependant on oil) and they want us to fight global warming (more dependent on alternative energy).

What we could or should concede ground on? Don't know, have to think about that.

I also take for granted that we will not have a Dem president who will concede much ground on gay rights, abortion rights etc.

We won the Battle. Now the Real Fight for Change Begins. Join MoveOn.org and fight for progressive change.  


Social issues. (0.00 / 0)
I think you are right re Dems not conceding much on social issues, but we will certainly have to push them in certain areas, like gay marriage.
I like all of your 3 issues, certainly huge ones for me. The big questions will be what kind of compromises Dems feel like they have to make to get us health care reform, for example.

[ Parent ]
Non-Negotiables (0.00 / 0)
I agree with your non-negotiables and would add Net Neutrality to that list, simply because this is a matter of survival.

[ Parent ]
Good list (0.00 / 0)
I think we will be mostly on the outside pushing on those three issues to try to make things more progressive.  If the Dem leadership is smart, they will seriously address middle-class problems like health care and support for college, along with union issues like card check.  These could provide generational support like the New Deal did.

Where they are likely to need real pushing is in energy policy, where imagination and vision are needed.  I don't think most of them really get what is needed to deal with these issues.  Here the netroots can ally with other groups.  Same with civil liberties--we maximize our power working through groups like the ACLU.

On social issues, I think it is more a matter of removing obstacles and bad ideas--abortion restrictions won't come up for a vote, and contraception will get greater support.  No marriage amendment is sufficient for now--let states decide what to do; it is only a matter of time.  Defund faith-based programs.

Tax policy could be a major problem, given the resistance to making hedge fund managers pay a fair share (hedge fund fee income should be ordinary income not capital gains).  Even if privatization is off the table, fair Social Security (raise the income cap don't reduce benefits excep for the very top) may be hard.  And bankruptcy reform.  This is where the corporatists are going to be a problem.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
But this is a problem (0.00 / 0)
Suddenly we're listing every issue.

I wouldn't want to minimize the importance of any of these issues (global warming is certainly a major focus of mine), but if we are going take a stand on certain issues, it should be on the issues that will help lead to our eventual overwhelming victory.  In other words, the positive feedback loops that Chris posted on and I compiled in this diary:  http://openleft.com/...

Specifically, I think we absolutely must not give ground on a progressive bill that legalizes those who are here and increases future legal immigration, and we cannot allow the corporatist Dems to sabotage the Employee Free Choice Act.

This is not to say that health care isn't vitally important, but pushing for it in the current system simply means giving ground on other issues that are obviously also important. Forcing the EFCA means building support not just for universal health care, but for whatever new issues or candidates arise.

I support John McCain because children are too healthy anyway.


[ Parent ]
Huzzah! (0.00 / 0)
Definitely a good list. But I'd add two points to the green economy item if you're shopping it around:

It's important to emphasize when talking about this one that it will mean a vast expansion of good paying blue collar jobs in manufacturing for new industries, as well as new construction and the retrofitting of public and private infrastructure. The big whine you hear is that this will hurt business, but what it will really do is create a lot of new businesses and business opportunities.

The other is that building out a local food economy is a key piece of a sustainable society. Most of our food can't keep coming from 1500 miles or more away and be grown in a petrochemical intensive way. And it's important in this to make sure to support cutting out middlemen so that the farmer gets more of the food dollar and the public gets fresher food. Local food, sustainably grown, will be key to both energy security and price shock insulation.


[ Parent ]
1 more non-negotiable (0.00 / 0)
Mike, you raise a very important issue.  I think Blue Thunder is right on with every one of his non-negotiables.  I would add complete renunciation of torture, extraordinary rendition, and Gitmo to the list.  This goes to the heart of who we are as a nation, and the values America holds dear.

[ Parent ]
Gearing up for a post-Clinton battle (0.00 / 0)
Any such deal will be temporary, but I do think will be more favorable to progressives than it was in the 1990's. I'm not sure exactly how, but I think things like trade in particular will be better.

I've been thinking today that the presence of Hillary Clinton has prevented this intra-party war from truly exploding in 2008. she is such a dominating figure that the primary campaign has really been about her, rather than about ideas or the party. Whether we enter a post-Clinton era of the party in February, November, 2013, or 2017, the real key will be what happens once the Clinton trump card is removed from the establishment. That is the point when all hell could break loose, as it more or less did back in the primaries 2004 with Dean.

The big fight has simply been postponed, not delayed inevitably. But I think the struggles so far have put progressives in a better position in the party than before. Also, in eight years time, Hoyer should be gone, which will really change things up.

Yep. (0.00 / 0)
That makes sense to me. this is definitely one of those long term battles. We just need to continue to grow the strength, reach, and depth of the progressive movement.

[ Parent ]
Doubt there will be a 'deal' (4.00 / 1)
Originally I was going to post directly to point one of Mike's post, but I think it fits in a little better as a response to Chris' comment.

I don't think the leadership of our Party (including the Democratic candidates for President) looks at the netroots as an equal, or even comparable, table partner going into that type of administration. [There are obviously individuals who do, but overwhelmingly they do not. Not in the way Labor or other constituencies would get a seat at the table.]

This isn't like the relationship the Republicans have with their 'grassroots' or the religious right... we don't get the attention they do; ie policy meetings or other insidery stuff (and that's not necessarily a bad thing...)The Democratic leadership looks at the netroots a little more suspiciously, and while individuals within the netroots can break thru and influence individual legislators - especially when they need us - I'm not sure they will be as willing to have us at the table when they first take the White House.

This is not meant to sound as cynical as it does...I simply mean that the new Dem administration won't think to include the netroots when they're hiring, consulting or bringing people into meet on certain topics. We have to be sure to remind them.


[ Parent ]
I thnk .. Edwards would be more willing on that front ... (0.00 / 0)
and Obama less so .. and Hillary even less(not because I think she is a netroots hater ... but because she'd be carrying over a lot of people from Bill's days) .. and god forbid she gives someone like O'Hanlon a position at Foggy Bottom

[ Parent ]
It will take some pushing. (0.00 / 0)
I am a little more optimistic than you, but there is no doubt it will some serious reminding...

[ Parent ]
Hoyer might be gone ... (0.00 / 0)
but it seems that Rahmbo is his heir apparent ... it also depends on what happens(should Hillary win) ... if we get 60+ in the Senate .. and nothing much happens after that .. all hell will break loose

[ Parent ]
And Obama too (0.00 / 0)
I think that the presence of Obama has made this campaign about personalities and not ideas.  It was a given that Clinton would be in the race.  Without Obama, we would have been able to see someone make the race about something other than names - more on things like the differences between Hillary and the other candidate.  Instead, we're "treated" to process discussions and lots of fundraising talk. 

I'm already thinking about how a viable primary challenge to President Hillary Clinton would fare in 2012, and what it would look like (a la Kennedy 1980).


[ Parent ]
who is on the other side? (0.00 / 0)
Who is on the other side from progressives and what are the fault lines? It seems to me that a lot of the DLC/Labor fights from the '80s are settled and that Labor has a stronger hand with Hillary Clinton than it did with Bill. US Labor has a much more international perspective than it did in the early '90s.

And aren't the differences really over how fast to move forward on a range of progressive issues? It seems to me the two sides are progressives who believe the country is moving our way and want to act quickly and the elected officials who are too cautious.


real differences. (0.00 / 0)
I think there are real differences on policy, and that one can never underestimate the power of big business on many issues. (Although I do think the business community can be split.)
But I also think there are plenty of folks that are somewhere in the middle of the divide, so it probably isn't as cut and dried as we sometimes make it out to be.

[ Parent ]
The deals (0.00 / 0)
Some deals benefit both sides of the equation.  Look for unions to gain their check off and probably some sort of mandatory bargaining for first time elections.

Look for improved voting rights.  This benefits democrats all around.  The voter IDs will be loosened.  Challenges will be reined in severely and I mean severely.  Vote by mail will be made much, much easier and will be the mormal voting methos on a fair number of states.

Beyond that. I really think we will have a major battle on trade agreements.  that has become the fundamental core belief of the establishment.

Any Democrat is likely to greatly expand health care.  At the least, we shpi;d get universal coverage of children, elimination of exemption/denial for pre-existing conditions, buy in to Medicare as an option, elimination of discounts to large employers at the expense of the little or medium sized employer.


We have to be our own leaders (0.00 / 0)
Having lived through a couple of rounds of this, I know pretty much how I look at the prospects for myself: deal inside at the local level; scream bloody murder from the left at the national level.

Progressives will have to keep the pressure on the DC types to get anything at all good on matters of curtailing U.S. aggression (especially in the Middle East, but watch out Latin America), responding to climate crisis (the contrary interests pretty well own DC pols of both parties) and even health care (ditto the insurers own...) We have to be ready to go to battle with our own on these fights, or we'll get almost nothing.

On the other hand, we have to get more progressive Dems into the pipeline at the local level. We can only get better "leaders" if we make 'em.

Guess I don't think the circumstances will be that different from now, regardless of which Dem we get as President. And any of them would be somewhat better than any of the Reps -- but not nearly as much better as most low information Dem voters hope.

Can it happen here?


elect progressive candidates (0.00 / 0)
i can't quite put my finger on it but i have a problem with this discussion.  for one it is the middle of primary season and we should be fighting hard for ideas and holding off on compromises and deals until later. for two it feels like you and chris have already accepted the second coming of the clintons and that is a shame. i won't and i can't.  there are too many spineless dem baby boomers in dc for my taste. altho we may see good policy under hrc, we won't see any substantial change in the direction of our government. it will be about undoing the bad bush policy. she needs an enemy just like the gop needs an enemy.

until we get more progressive politicians in line for leadership we have nothing to deal.  honestly i don't believe the progressive power base has any leverage yet, and discussions of deals and compromises at this stage of the game only risks deflating what energy is there. 

the problem is liberals will be so excited at undoing the bush years that any and all victories in health care and domestic policy will be heralded as bigger victories than they actually are. hillary will look like a genius and the progressives will look like whining children.


Primary season. (0.00 / 0)
I don't assume at all that Hillary wins the primary, in fact as I wrote recently I think the dynamics in IA really do pose some challenges for her. My assumption instead is that whoever wins the primary is going to govern as more of a center-left (emphasis on center) President rather than as a srtong progressive, and that the leadership in congress will be the same as it is today. If you accept those assumptions, you need to start thinking about how the progressive movement operates in that environment.
I am not a person that thinks that all compromise is bad- compromise is a fundamental part of the democratic system. What I want is for progressives to have the strongest possible position and the best possible strategy going into the negotiating sessions, that we negotiating from a position of maximum strength rather than from weakness.

[ Parent ]
Influence comes from Power Centers (0.00 / 0)
Here are some progressive power centers:

(1) The Progressive caucus in Congress.
(2) Ability of the netroots to influence Conventional Wisdom, Popular Narratives and hold the traditional Media to be more honest.
(3) Public Opinion, which these days is pretty progressive.
(4) Non-Party organizations like Move On, Labor Unions, etc.

So, I interpret your question as the extent to which our power centers give the new president no choice but to be progressive, or whether the president can act in a progressive way, knowing that the progressive power centers can help with public opinion or to counter the Conservative response.

What changes will 2008 bring to Congress?

I assume that the Republicans continue to decline in 2008, and the Conservative wing will remain dominant, as they'l lose more moderate districts.  I assume we'll gain a few more Progressive Dems and a few more Centrists.

The new President will rely on both the Progressive and Centrist factions, which gives either caucus veto power, so compromises will have three players: President, Conservative Dems and Progressive Dems. I assume the new president will try to build up his or her own caucus or grouping through political favors, money, etc.

In this situation, we need to be concerned about the relative strength of the Progressive caucus vs the Center, and the convictions of the Progressives, i.e. which issues are progressives willing to go to the mat.


Yep. (0.00 / 0)
All that makes sense to me. The big variable in terms of actually enacting legislation, though, is how many Senate seats we can gain, because if we don't gain quite a few we will have to factor in moderate Republicans in the Senate into our deal making.

[ Parent ]
Duck the Dealing (4.00 / 2)
I think that Sirota's discussions about the importance of continuing to move forward with progressive politics at the state level regardless of what the next Democratic President does is the way to go.

Yes, but, (0.00 / 0)
no matter what, there will still be big policy fights at the national level that progressives will want to play in. I am all for a state policy strategy, but it's not either/or- we can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[ Parent ]
My key progressive issues: Health Care and Tax Reform (0.00 / 0)
Health Care will be inevitably a compromise; let's see whether the baby is split down the middle. The key detail is: Will Universal health care be permitted to compete with private insurance? If not, then Universal is just a bailout for private insurance. Maybe it will help some people, but it won't be a truly progressive shift.

Tax reform has to include removal of the Bush tax cuts at the top. If not, we'll never cover the deficit or be able to pay for any of the other things we need like Infrastructure, Education, Health Care, etc.

Other issues are important, but I don't feel like they make or break it for me on the progressive essentials.

Notice that I didn't include Iraq. I feel that all of the candidates will have to deal with a situation they can't completely control. I don't think ANY of the candidates will easily extract US forces, even if they really want to. For me, the issue is far larger than Iraq, as it is about designing a multilateral and morally better foreign policy.

Also, I didn't include energy policy. Yes, this is an important issue, but to me it isn't specifically a litmus-test progressive issue. I think we have a larger percentage of the Democratic Party on board with this. As a result, any of the candidates should be able to have some kind of success on energy, and we won't see the betrayals I fear on Universal Health Care, Progressive Taxes and Iraq.


Energy- is a key progressive litmus (0.00 / 0)
Interesting post MD, and yes Iraq will be a complex issue.

I disagree with your take on energy.

Yes, this is an important issue, but to me it isn't specifically a litmus-test progressive issue. I think we have a larger percentage of the Democratic Party on board with this. As a result, any of the candidates should be able to have some kind of success on energy

How is this not a litmus test? If candidate is not interested in clean energy and global warming I do not know how we can consider them progressive. This affects international politics, the environment, jobs, and national security. With powerful lobbies against us, Republicans presidential questions still doubting that global warming is caused by humans, and every Democrat out there with a slightly different energy policy I think we must look at their proposals very carefully.

Chris and company have talked here a lot about residual troops and how many voters think Out of Iraq is simply Out of Iraq. Same with the 'green' issue. There are a host of bills which must get passed, or a single massive green bill throwing into action alternative research, cap and trade, sequestration, and an international treaty. Any candidate can have some sort of green policy or bill.

Again I hope I don't sound too aggressive here- I agree with much of your post and your statement that most Dems will be on board with some kind of success.

But the some kind of success worries me as we have so far to go in our policies.

We need to demand deep and wide success on this issue.
I would say a progressive on this issue must align with Gore and other's recommendation on 90% cut by 2050
http://www.ens-newsw...

We won the Battle. Now the Real Fight for Change Begins. Join MoveOn.org and fight for progressive change.  


[ Parent ]
As I said, Iraq and energy are important issues, but (0.00 / 0)
I think the progressive position on energy is closer to the broader Democratic consensus, which means any of the possible presidents would be able to make some progress in conservation, alternative energy, or whatever. Economic and geopolitical realities are helping to drive policy, as well.  Yes, we need to push for the best solutions, but energy policy isn't quite the litmus test defining good from bad democrats like Universal Health Care is.

In support of your argument: If energy has more cross-party support within the Dem Party, progressives may be able to have more influence on the solutions.

Iraq is sort of the opposite case. The new president's hands will be tied by circumstances put in place by the present bunch of creeps. Our progressive caucus is going push and push, but it will be the same brick wall as now. If the president is Hillary, she'll have to prove she isn't soft on terrorists or that she isn't afraid to go to war or something.  I feel the claws of the neoliberals are too deeply embedded in the Democratic party, and they will side with the Republicans on this.

Again, in support of your argument, maybe the possibility of Hillary going all soft on us is worth doubling down. But, our efforts here won't go anywhere if we don't flip a few of the neoliberal Democrats to progressives. I can even see us having the same arguments about Iraq in 2009!


[ Parent ]
What I mean about economic reality hitting energy. (0.00 / 0)
If oil goes over $100 per barrel we'll start to get some serious demand destruction, i.e. conservation by necessity. It won't take much on the policy sided to encourage the rolling snowball: tax breaks for Conservation, hybrids, solar conversions. The three-cornered stool of the democrats (progs, mods and prez) can keep it together on this issue.

Also, today solar cells cost about $4/kilowatt-hour, but they are about to hit $1/Kw-hr from at least two different companies, Nanosolar and AVA. Not as cheap as coal electricity, but we're suddenly in the ballpark for dealing with daytime peak demand for Air conditioning.

Dealing with global warming is much more difficult than putting resources into conversion of the energy economy. Yes, it's very important, but we're talking about dealing with some serious structural resistance and confronting very powerful interests. Again, we need to put up the fight, but our dear "moderate friends" will side with the Republicans and corporate interests to sell us out, and I don't think the new president will be willing to expend the necessary political capital.

Global warming will be a 2010 issue, I guarantee it.


[ Parent ]
Litmust test (0.00 / 0)
I guess I still don't quite understand....

Yes, we need to push for the best solutions, but energy policy isn't quite the litmus test defining good from bad democrats like Universal Health Care is.

I am not trying to be combative--honestly want to understand.

What makes healthcare a litmus test and green energy not?

Green energy would be a progressive feedback loop:
a) green/blue jobs
b) public investment in research and jobs in alternatives
c) commitment to long term thinking
d) a potential international agreement
e) stronger on national security
f) Disempower Oil Lobby

We won the Battle. Now the Real Fight for Change Begins. Join MoveOn.org and fight for progressive change.  


[ Parent ]
We agree that energy policy is very important (0.00 / 0)
The point I'm making is that Energy Policy is more of a Democratic Party-wide issue, with more shared ground between Centrists and Progressives, whereas Single-Payer Universal Health Care is fundamentally Progressive with a strong Conservative opposition within the Democratic Party.

On the one, we can help steer the solutions, but won't be shut out of the debate. Changes to energy policy ARE coming, and the big money opposed to changes are pretty much aligned with the Right-wing of the Republicans, and less to the Centrist Dems.

On the second, we'll need to expend some substantial political capital if we want a progressive solution, because the insurance industry is seriously in bed with the Centrist Dems, as well as Hillary Clinton. Maybe she'll surprise us and kick them to the curb, but there will be no way she'll do that without strong Progressive and popular pressure.

The Progressive position on Universal Health Care has structural implications, i.e. it is radical. The payoff is huge. If we get Universal Single Payer, the Democrats will have so much political good will we'll be in power for a generation.


[ Parent ]
Gotcha. (0.00 / 0)
Gotcha. Now I see what you're saying.

While it is perhaps a progressive issue it is one shared party wide and hence not something on which Democrats will likely splinter.

Sorry if I was being dense.

I wonder how the Bush dogs measure up. Maybe I'll look into that and do a diary on it. I fear their attempts to dilute a bill in this area.

Thanks for the digression/discussion.

We won the Battle. Now the Real Fight for Change Begins. Join MoveOn.org and fight for progressive change.  


[ Parent ]
Climate change at the top (0.00 / 0)
Bluethunder's right in not giving an inch on global warming.  This is likely to be the planet's chief challenge in the coming decades.  I think this will also be achievable.  The tide has turned against the flat-earthers over the past year.  The plans from the candidates have been encouraging as well, especially from Edwards and Obama.

The pace of the current Dem congress has been maddeningly slow, but there are signs that even Dingell is getting on board.  Hopefully in 2009, Congress and the President (assuming it's a Dem) will be able to enact the far-reaching measures that are needed.


[ Parent ]
Hmmmmmmmmmmm.................... (0.00 / 0)

Time to take a look at zero and non-zero sum game theory folks. And maybe a little 'History of Negotiation' would be in order, the later is not a book just a meme, for as Unitary Moonbat will tell ya,

'Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.

I just wrote a diary on this topic, attempting to answer all 5 questions. (0.00 / 0)
sorry to pimp my diary, but at least it's pertinent. 

http://www.openleft....


Great diary. (0.00 / 0)
I really appreciate you thinking about and answering all 5 questions, and liked what you had to say.
It was interesting to me that so many folks responding have focused on one thing or another, usually the policy question, rather than doing what you did and answering all of them. 

[ Parent ]
they were a good set of questions to try to wrap my head around (0.00 / 0)
& I am glad I added to the discussion.

[ Parent ]
Undercut Conservative Power (0.00 / 0)
Really good questions Mike.

To me, one really important point is how we can use our power to build more power in the future. Several commenters said union card check (which will help build union power), voting rights which will make it easier to win elections, and defund faith-based organizations (which will cut off funding a lot of right-wingers). Let me add to this list two things:

* Challenge the mainstream media corporations -- prevent consolidation, prevent one company owning multiple media outlets in a single city, restore Fairness Doctrine, appoint regulators, not enablers, fund public media fully, etc. We'll never be able to win if most people in this country hear right-wing propaganda 24/7 (and not much else). We must enable alternative voices and bar the MSM from having too much power.

* Build stronger anti-corruption measures -- Clean Money elections, prevent Congresscritters from becoming lobbyists for at least 3 years, stronger Congressional travel restrictions, sunshine on earmarks, no single-source contracts except in extraordinary circumstances, less government contracting and more direct hiring (which would also help government unions), etc. We need to build up ethical laws and root out corruption and bribery, especially from military contractors and insurance companies.

All these measures should help us build the progressive movement and undercut the power nexus that the right has built.


Go after the media at the state level. (0.00 / 0)
I wonder how we would go after media consolidation.

Going after the media is sorrta like biting the hands that feeds you. But I would say we could take page from the environmental policy--rather than just trying to "curb conservative emissions" on the air we could attempt to fund alternative outlets and news sources--i.e. netroots.

While I think this is important, I would toss this up to something I could concede ground on.

This might be a better thing to do on state levels.
States could write rules to disallow media monopolies in their state and eventually it would make it economically non-viable for conglomerates to do so.

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