Forging A Winning Progressive Coalition

by: Chris Bowers

Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 16:22


I want to make an addendum to my post yesterday about Obama's campaign. In particular, I want to say that one of my longest-running visions in progressive politics has been for a strongly progressive Democrat to win the party's presidential nomination, and then the Presidency, based on a coalition that, at its core, combines African-Americans and the white progressive "creative class." Loosely speaking, as I articulated in one of my very first blog posts ever, it would be a combination of the Jesse Jackson coalition in 1988 and the Howard Dean coalition of 2003. In a more recent formulation, I have referred to it as the coalition of non-whites and non-Christian Democrats. That isn't to say that other demographic groups wouldn't be involved in the coalition, just that its two largest demographic groups would be people of color and whites who do not self-identify as Christian.

Why do I focus on these two groups? Several reasons. First, they tend to be the most Democratic-leaning of all demographic groups in terms of voting patterns. Second, because members of congress who come from these districts tend to be the most progressive Democrats around. Third, because non-whites and non-Christians are both high growth demographic groups, they represent a potential long-term governing majority. Fourth, because they already make up a majority of Democratic voters nationwide. Fifth, the 1988 and 2004 elections demonstrate the willingness of these groups to support non-establishment candidates. In short, this is a coalition that could dominate Democratic politics and even national politics for a long time to come, with the result being an electable, progressive governing majority over the long-term. I see this coalition as the Holy Grail of progressive electoral politics.

In early 2004, while living in Chicago, I saw a candidate whose explicit strategy in the Illinois Democratic Senatorial primary was to forge that very coalition: Barack Obama. I thought that, if he won a Senate seat using that strategy, it would then become possible for him to use that strategy to become President eight years down the road (I was banking, of course, on a Democratic presidential victory in 2004). If a state Senator could do it on a statewide level, a US Senator could do it on a national level. Obama seemed like a potential solution to a long-running electability problem for progressives on a national level. Given that many people I talked with had considered him a possible future President even when he was in a distant third-place in the Senatorial primary, his potential to pull this coalition off, even before his 2004 DNC speech, appeared enormous and very believable.

Because of this, I leaned toward Obama for a long, long time in this campaign. Despite events like the Edwards blogger controversy, or Richardson coming out in favor of no residual forces, I kept waiting for Obama's campaign to put this coalition together. Once and if it started happening, and his early lead among the progressive creative class was matched by an advantage among African-Americans, I was ready to jump on board. Given how long I had looked for such a coalition to form, I wasn't going to sit on the sidelines once it actually did. However, it just no longer seems to me as though Obama is going to pull that coalition together. He never overcame Clinton's advantage among African-Americans. Also, as I documented in yesterday's post, he started losing ground among the progressive creative class as well. If, as the campaign progresses, a candidate is losing ground, and is behind overall, among the two main of this potential coalition, I have a very difficult time seeing that candidate as the leader of the progressive governing coalition I have sought.

I don't know why Obama has been unable to make any dent in Clinton's overall advantage among African-Americans. I have my theories on Obama's struggle with the progressive creative class that I articulated yesterday. First, he kept attacking extremist liberal strawmen, which is basically an attack on the progressive creative class. Second, he kept talking about unity and reaching across the aisle during a time when conservatives and Republicans were repeatedly shooting down consensus legislation in the Senate, where Obama himself holds a seat. It seemed as though he was determined not to pursue his 2004 primary strategy on a national level, and instead take a more traditional, establishment route. I don't know for certain how accurate my analysis is, but for one reason or another Obama has now failed to bring either of the two main components of this coalition together during the campaign, and current trends make it seem like the situation is only going to get worse.

I still hope that this coalition will one day come together, but I no longer see Obama as having real potential to pull it off anymore. I also don't think that the coalition can be successful if it forms on its own, and then endorses a candidate without being endorsed by that candidate. Voluntarily offering your support to a candidate that hasn't endorsed you is a good way to become irrelevant once that candidate is in office. See, for example, the way that congressional Democrats went along and condemned MoveOn.org now that, in the majority, they can use corporate PAC money instead of netroots money. If you give it away for free, people can find other sources of support once they are in power. Also, it is hard for any coalition to come together without a unifying cause for it to come together around.

I see this as a big missed opportunity in 2008. I don't know what happened to the Barack Obama of the Illinois Senate primary. Maybe nothing did, and I simply misjudged his potential as the leader of this new progressive coalition.  Either way, it is very disappointing, and it has me searching for answers much like I was after Dean's defeat four years ago.

Chris Bowers :: Forging A Winning Progressive Coalition

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I do not know. (4.00 / 2)
I have spent a great deal of time in Polemics for Obama today http://www.dailykos....

Honestly.  I hope that this New York Magazine article is true: http://nymag.com/new...

That we are still waiting for him to peak, and that maybe we will see it tonight.

I was around for Dean in 2004.  I remember spending hours at call centers on the phones dialing for him.  Its a part of what wanted me to get involved with politics.  I also remember being at a fundraiser / convention watching party in 2004 when I heard Obama's speech and when I saw grown men and women looking at the screen jaws dropped impressed by this man. 

I think he has had some terrible advice, and that he has made some mistakes. However I cannot help but to keep hoping.  I hope that he can regroup and take Clinton to task because I am seriously terrified at the idea of a Clinton Presidency that will continue the status quo on polarization and division.  I may be naive, but I believe that Obama can do a lot of good in healing the country on so many levels.  I think many conservatives will be ok with him... not because he isn't progressive, but because his message includes them. 

I feel your pain. 


Was Axelrod ... (0.00 / 0)
Obama's main advisor back in '04?  Also .. Obama has a lot more people whispering in his ear now ... people like Geffen and others like him(meaning big money big wheel types)

[ Parent ]
You've got to be kidding me... (4.00 / 3)

I am seriously terrified at the idea of a Clinton Presidency that will continue the status quo on polarization and division.

In the 90s, we had a Democratic president who signed off on welfare reform and declared that the era of big government was over.

And the RW screaming and accusations of sleaze and corruption did not let up for eight straight years.

You seriously think that the RW would get in a group hug with President Obama?

They would eat him alive.


[ Parent ]
I don't think RW... (0.00 / 0)
would give a group hug or not try to eat him alive... I DO think that Republican voters... the ones at home who are not particularly political but pay attention, will.

[ Parent ]
In light of all of the negative things about Obama recently (4.00 / 1)
it is worth noting that in one sense his strategy is succeeding:

Obama leads Hillary by 41-25 among independents in New Hampshire.  His problem is with Democrats (he trails 49 - 10) among them. 

His polling in Iowa and New Hampshire strikes me as more than competive at this stage.

BTW - a cautionary tail about making judgements at this time - here is what Tom Wicker wrote on October 30th, 1979 about New Hampshire in the New York Times:
"Ted Kennedy and Ronald Reagan remain almost prohibitive favorites"

For the record, Kennedy lost NH by 20 points to Carter, and Reagan trailed Bush in New Hampshire for three weeks after Iowa. 

It is very early.


49-10? (0.00 / 0)
Wow, that is a big deficit among self-identifying Dems. It is actually better to have a lead among self-identifying Dems in New Hampshire, too, since all candidates of both parties are fighting over the independents. Obama will have a more difficult time holding the independents than Clinton will the Dems, simply due to less competition.

It is impressive that he is leading among independents. However, the vast majority of voters in the Democratic primary season will be Dems. He needs them to win, and being down 49-10 isn't good.

[ Parent ]
This is a bigger deal (0.00 / 0)
than people understand, and can be seen in the National Quin poll this am.

Hilllary trails Guiliani 45-43.  Among Dems she leads 83-8, but trails among independents 39-43.

Obama by contrast beats Guiliani 43-42.  Obama wins independents against Guiliani 43-38.  He wins Dems, however, by only 75-21.

This is important because I think it would be easier for Obama to close the gap with Dem voters than it will be for Hillary to improve amoung independents.

To respond directly to your point, it is hard to square Obama's performance in Iowa (which is among Dems) against his performance among Dems in New Hampshire.  Should he win Iowa my guess is that the Dem number would close quickly, and he would probably find himself in the lead.

 


[ Parent ]
I hear you Chris... and... (0.00 / 0)
I hear you Chris.

My wife and I have always given small donations to a candidate once they were chosen, but this was the first year that since April we signed on as small monthly donors to a candidate in a primary. We of course gave to Obama much for the same reasons you site above.

I always endorsed him for 2 reasons, 1) I saw that he had a strong progressive voting record and 2) My conservative friends said they could see themselves voting for him.

I think he was targeting this very coalition and he overplayed it: progressives and potential swing voters.

  As you say...


He kept attacking extremist liberal strawmen, which is basically an attack on the progressive creative class. Second, he kept talking about unity and reaching across the aisle during a time when conservatives and Republicans were repeatedly shooting down consensus legislation in the Senate

Yes he attacked liberal extremism, but he also labeled himself as a progressive on more than one occasion.

I think he saw Hillary as polemical, divisive and the type that would alienate anyone not already in her camp. So I think he attempted to reach out to the low-hanging fruit of Hillary supporters which he could shake off. Where Hillary would divide, he would unite.

I also think he also counted on people's fatigue of Bush being too single-minded and partisan, and he had hoped to draw on those who were cynical as a result.

In both instances he over played his hand.

I never had a problem with his uniter rhetoric, but as of late where I have seen him fail to take strong stances on controversial issues my support for him has faltered.

He is now in a 3 way tie for my vote with Dodd and Edwards.

We won the Battle. Now the Real Fight for Change Begins. Join MoveOn.org and fight for progressive change.  


Interesting analysis (0.00 / 0)
Also, the proximate cause for this post, the McClurkin incident, seems to support your thesis that Obama's failure is a failure to unite these two groups (nonwhites plus "creative whites").  Obama inadvertently introduced an issue that has the potential to pit them against each other (homosexuality), and then handled the controversy clumsily (at best).  The best way to build coalitions would seem to be to identify these potentially divisive issues in advance and then try to either avoid them, or if you can't avoid them, have a strategy for threading the needle. 

What is the Progressive "Creative Class"? (0.00 / 0)
I don't get what the "creative" is supposed to designate. If someone could tell me I'd appreciate it.

As for the Progressive coalition that Chris longs for: give me a break! Sounds a lot like the religious coalition but 180 degrees different. And I doubt that it is large enough to elect a President by itself so what purpose does this coalition of 'exclusion' serve if it can't elect anyone?

It's interesting that the top three Democrat candidates don't 'endorse' this coalition. Clinton has clearly stayed away from pandering to any one coalition especially the Progressive blogosphere as has Obama. And even Edwards has stayed an arms length away in the pandering category. He sent his wife out to scold MoveOn who did go over the line in their ad. There were many ways to prompt Patreaus to tell the truth than to resort to RightWing name calling. You can't decry specific tactics and then resort to them yourself and expect to be credible. And people on the Left know that but the 'code' says you don't scold your own - how Reganesque. But by not singling out such disruptive actions it allows the more radical elements or the more radical methods to continue on and have a louder voice. That will never be healthy for the Left. When will people discover that it is good policy to police their brethren? We expect that people in government do it but we are not willing to do it ourselves?!!!

I really doubt the we will ever see the coalition that Chris talks about ever actually elect a Democratic candidate little on a President. Hell even Dean didn't go that far in aligning with an exclusive coalition. In fact he preached the opposite and still does. And he  was very much a moderate in many ways as his record as a governor showed. Until the Left Blogosphere learns to moderate on certain issues and compromise on others they will never be a force in the Party as Chris' laments of late have chronicled. To yearn for a coalition of mostly religious Blacks and Non-religious Whites seems to fly in the face of logic. Not to say that those groups don't have some commonalities but they also have many differences and in order to bring them together in great numbers will require a candidate that can moderate the divides between the two - which Clinton seems to be doing. Nope there won't be a "Jesse Jackson Dean Progressive Dove To The Core" come along and fill the bill I am afraid and even if there was that candidate would lose to a more moderate one who also possessed quality progressive credential like Clinton does.

I hope the Left Blogosphere learns a lesson from this election: The country will never be where the Left Blogosphere is. Therefore unless the Left Blogosphere changes they will become functionally irrelevant and a pain in the side to the Party at best, as has been the case. In order to be relevant in all areas of life it requires a give and take by all participants. And right now that seems to be something that for the most part the Left Blogosphere is unwilling to do to it's own detriment.


That is one of the the most ridiculous things I have heard! (4.00 / 3)

I hope the Left Blogosphere learns a lesson from this election: The country will never be where the Left Blogosphere is. Therefore unless the Left Blogosphere changes they will become functionally irrelevant and a pain in the side to the Party at best

You sound just like all the DLC and its parrots.

Irrelevant? Are you unaware of the thousands of dollars blogs and the netroots have raised for Dems all over the country?

Do you not know that we have lead on issues where the Dems had no spine and now they are winning on those issues? Like Iraq for example?

A Pain? Heard of Jon Tester, Howard Dean, or Ned Lamont? Do you not know that we have played a central role in elections like these?

Where have you been?

You're literally telling thousands of people to change their point of view to match a few hundred!

We won the Battle. Now the Real Fight for Change Begins. Join MoveOn.org and fight for progressive change.  


[ Parent ]
Thanks for the open mind and (0.00 / 1)
the troll rating. Feel better now?

Yeah the blogs raise a lot of money. So what do they get for their money? Help elect Webb et al and then praise him when he does and then bitch when he doesn't vote their way? That is why the blogs get no respect - because they look at things day to day instead of over the long term. I don't know you but i don't expect you to understand the problem either. At least Chis understands the problem as he has written many laments of the last several weeks saying they are powerless. Why don't you go troll rate him? The thing Chris has to do now is figure out how to make the blogs relevant. I offered some food for thought that's all. Not everyone will understand because many don't have the background to be able to understand.

Keep sending that money and see what it buys you. You see what Obama has offered as pointed out by Chris - ZERO!. :)


[ Parent ]
More Beltway Idiocy (4.00 / 3)
God, this is stupid.  I mean, it's DLC/Bob Shrum/Chris Matthews/Cokie Roberts stupid:
I hope the Left Blogosphere learns a lesson from this election: The country will never be where the Left Blogosphere is. Therefore unless the Left Blogosphere changes they will become functionally irrelevant and a pain in the side to the Party at best, as has been the case.

Just like this, right?

I hope the Limbaugh Dittoheads learn a lesson from this election: The country will never be where the Limbaugh Dittoheads are. Therefore unless the Limbaugh Dittoheads changes they will become functionally irrelevant and a pain in the side to the Party at best, as has been the case.

Except, of course, that the Left Blogosphere actually does represent majority--often supermajority positions, while the Dittoheads represent President 29%'s base.

Last time I looked, approval for Congressional Democrats had plummeted in direct correlation with them turning their back on the netroots-supported progressive agenda that most folks voted for in the 2006 mid-terms.  This is the strongest indicater out there of what people want ideologically, since there hasn't been a clear progressive top-tier candidate in the race for people to coaslese around.

Do us all a favor, p.s.  Go back to trying to break into cable.  You're just too pathetically factually challeneged and dumb to function in a medium where people can talk back.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Oh Brother (0.00 / 0)
Bowers has written at least 4 or 5 laments in the last few weeks saying how powerless the blogs are. You ought to try reading more and name calling less. Talk about a dittohead - isn't that EXACTLY what Limbaugh does is name call? Yep.

You could also try thinking. The blogs are not as influential as everyone would like them to be and that isn't because they are doing something right. If one wants influence and thier current behavior is not getting you that then you better change something. That hold true in all areas of life. Of course people who always resort to name calling and put-downs probably can't process that fact.

Nuff said.


[ Parent ]
I'm all ears (4.00 / 1)
What should we change?

Obviously we all agree we want DC to be more accountable to us.

Bower's posts usually focus on Washington's betrayal of us as a constituency but that does not make us powerless, it makes them stupid and spineless. But if you were to argue that every group betrayed by congress is powerless than you would have a list of just about every group and constituency in the country. Even the Religious Right feels powerless at times because gays have the right to breath and we are not all required to attend Sunday School.

(PS I removed the rating, it was uncalled for and I apologize for that, but I still fundamentally disagree with your assertions).

We won the Battle. Now the Real Fight for Change Begins. Join MoveOn.org and fight for progressive change.  


[ Parent ]
It's not up to me (0.00 / 0)
to say what should be changed - I don't run a blog. But the approach now being used is not working as we all can see. You can spin the powerless thing anyway you want but the fact is that blogs are not having any real effect. If you want to blame that on the pols in DC then go ahead but it still does not change the fact that blogs do nothing more than three things:

* Raise money for the people you complain about

* Generate a few more phone calls to those same people

* Give a small segment of the public a place to bitch about being powerless

As for examples of what is working I'd point to Dean's 50 State Strategy; I'd pay attention to the Progressive States Network; and I focus on what tactics Gore is being successful with in his quest.

You'll notice that all three are on-the-ground operations and are not rooted online. The online portion of those operations are used solely for recruiting and communications - and that is what the internet is good for. It is not a sacred place to do battle and get things done. The ground is the place for that. You will also notice that none of the three are based on anger like the blogs are. Anger is a good motivator but it is not an effective way to talk to or about the people who you are trying to change. If I come to you and get in your face my chances of winning your favor are nil, right? But if I come to you respectfully and talk business then I have a chance of winning your favor.

If all you want is commentary and chat rooms then the internet blogs are the place to be. If you want to really affect changes then you should look to the three operations I mentioned above for models inspiration and effectiveness.

My gut says that if the thousands of people in the blog chat rooms were to have to really get out and work to affect change then you would lose 95% of them. It's easy to sit home and bitch via the keyboard. It is entirely another thing to get off your butt, organize and fight a real fight.



[ Parent ]
Funny thing... (0.00 / 0)
I happen to be the volunteer coordinator for MoveOn in my town and the precinct captain in my neighborhood.

I think you are confusing a few (many) things.

Blogs are first and foremost a community for discussion.

You are assuming that we do nothing more than talk. And we all know what happens when you assume.

If you hate the blogs so much, go stand on a street corner with a sign which says so. 

We won the Battle. Now the Real Fight for Change Begins. Join MoveOn.org and fight for progressive change.  


[ Parent ]
Funny Thing (0.00 / 0)
I used to volunteer for MoveOn but in the last 18 months they went a little loco so I quit volunteering. And I also am a co-precinct captain and have been for over 20 years.

As for blogs 99% of what gets done is talk - if you can call it that - and talk is cheap. It takes no amount of dedication or knowledge to sit on you rear and home and rant.

And the talk has become of lesser quality by the day. Over at dkos I have a user ID of approx 5000 under another handle, so I was involved with blogs from the beginning. I know what was being discussed back then. There was serious discussion. Most of those people have left as have many of the serious new comers in the last two years. They just moved on because the tone is not one of serious advocates. It's more of Democratic Underground transplants who just want to yell, scream and compete for the most snarky remarks. Those type are starting to creep in here also. In fact Paul who posts on the front page can't comment without name calling in every post. What a fine example he presents.

No I'm not assuming nothing. I'm talking from experience and observation with blogs and over 30 years involvement in Democratic politics.


[ Parent ]
Fair enough (0.00 / 0)
I will agree that some of the posting in the blogosphere is 100% bitching.

What would be an example of serious posting? [I mean this as a legitimate question, not at as sarcasm]  Aside from the constant droning of Democrats never do anything (which is different from a specific issue discussion i.e. a FISA bill) I think much of what goes on is serious and important.

You think MoveOn has gone loco in the last 18 months. Can you give specifics on that?

And I still think Iran is a critical issue. I easily can see Bush invading 2 days before the election, dusting his hands off and saying... Good luck, you'll need it.

We won the Battle. Now the Real Fight for Change Begins. Join MoveOn.org and fight for progressive change.  


[ Parent ]
Silence Is Golden (4.00 / 2)
"'Tis better to be silent, and be taken for a fool, than to open your mouth, and remove all doubt."

Congress has been consistently ignoring the will of the American people and its approval ratings have plummetted.  If Congress ignores the will of the entire country, and they're ignoring us as well, then Chris's lament is hardly consistent with your original claim that "The country will never be where the Left Blogosphere is."

In fact, the country already is where the Left Blogosphere is, and both are being ignored by Congress, and the Democratic leadership.

And it's not just the blogosphere saying this.  As noted in frontpage DKos diary today, a just-releated Democracy Corps Poll [PDF]:

FINDING THEIR VOICE AS THE AGENTS OF CHANGE

The voters are now very conscious that they and the country are about to turn these people out: "with the election coming in 2008, I'm sure that a lot of things will come to a head then"; "I don't think another Republican has a chance to get into office"; and "I'm just waiting for the next election and hoping that regime change causes something to happen."5

For all that, Democrats have yet not found their voice as agents of change, except perhaps on Iraq, and risk falling short of their greatest aspirations. The presidential candidates have released important policies and all the leaders have opposed Bush on Iraq; in Congress, they have passed and battled for some reforms, but Democrats are being pushed ahead by the voters, not the reverse. Four months before the 2006 election, we wrote that voters in the country were more devoted to change than the Democrats in Washington, though by Election Day, they caught up with the public and produced a big election. That gap is much greater today, with important implications for the character and scale of any Democratic win.

That's reality, and it's 180 degrees opposed to where you are, with your head firmly stuck way up where the sun don't shine.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
As Usual (0.00 / 0)
you address nothing about what I posted. You just go into your ranting mode.

Again Chris Bowers has written plenty lately about the blogosphere not having any real affect. Remember one of his first laments lately where he said (paraphrasing) 'I've done all a blogger could do - even went on a TV commercial - sigh!'? Remember that? Remember the others?

You are the one with their head where the sun don't shine. My comments were not about what voters were thinking - they were about where the blogs were at and about Chris' desired coalition. Try staying on topic.

If you want the blogs to be relevant and have a voice in actual change then you better help change them because what they are doing now isn't working. Beyond raising money and the ability to generate some more phone calls to DC there isn't much crow about with the effectiveness of bogs. Chris has made that pretty clear. If you disagree with what he has been writing then take it up with him and show him where the blogs are effective.


[ Parent ]
Your Rightwing Tactics Do Not Fly Here (0.00 / 0)
Repeating lies, talking points, smear, accusations, etc. does not make them any more valid the second, third or hundreth time than they were in the first place.

You are the one who is running away like the wind from the point at issue:  your claim that the left blogosphere has to change in order to become effective:

I hope the Left Blogosphere learns a lesson from this election: The country will never be where the Left Blogosphere is. Therefore unless the Left Blogosphere changes they will become functionally irrelevant and a pain in the side to the Party at best, as has been the case.

Chris's frustration has nothing to do with this counterfactual claim (i.e. lie) of yours.  It has everything to do with the Congress being hopelessly out of touch with the people who elected them.

My comments were not about what voters were thinking - they were about where the blogs were at and about Chris' desired coalition. Try staying on topic.

No, your comment was:

I hope the Left Blogosphere learns a lesson from this election: The country will never be where the Left Blogosphere is. Therefore unless the Left Blogosphere changes they will become functionally irrelevant and a pain in the side to the Party at best, as has been the case.

And that's a trollish rightwing lie.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
No Paul (0.00 / 0)
What I say are things that are held by many loyal Democrats. You don't represent the thoughts of all Progressives - not by a long shot.

Many people I know are appalled at the hate demonstrated on blogs. And the name calling and narrow mindedness by people like you convinces them not to waste their time registering to post. Do yo think for a second that a hardworking family person who has an interest in politics wans to come here and voice an opinion only to be shouted down and belittled by the likes of you? Hardly.

Thank God you don't represent the best of what the party has to offer at the grassroots level. You deal in exclusion not inclusion.


[ Parent ]
You're The Demonizer Bunny Here (0.00 / 0)
The bad things I've said about you are all a response to your spreading rightwing lies.  And in your defense you say that lots of other uninformed Democrats believe the lies as well.

And somehow you're proud of that!

Yeah, well, Michael Moore's full of hate, too.  So, rock on!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
First sentence (4.00 / 1)
I read the first sentence of your comment and said to myself: That's paul.  And it was.  You've got a recognizable "voice."

One could also make the same point about conservatives (and lots of people did) following the 1964 election.  They finally got their candidate and a clear choice and the people clearly said no.  Goldwater raised "doubts" about Social Security in New Hampshire and was just ridiculed relentlessly.  The same stuff that Bush tried 40 years later.  They have this hard wired on the brain.  Doesn't work for them but they come back.

Well, we have to be in decent shape vis-a-vis the conservatives in 1964.  People don't ridicule us on the issues; they agree with us.  It's time to elect hundreds of progressives from dog catcher to US Senator. 


[ Parent ]
Only 60-70% of the People Agree With Us (0.00 / 0)
So obviously your utopian plans are hopeless!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
I disagree with so much of this (0.00 / 0)
but I'll focus on what was, for me, the highlight... when you wrote that "there were many ways to prompt Petreaus to tell the truth". I disagree with your apparent, Broder-esque belief that such good faith efforts make lying less likely. Perhaps we could send him a card and an ice-cream and a 1 month trial subscription to NetFlix?

(And for another thing, Jesse Jackson was a hell of a candidate during a time when the country was far more reactionary regarding race issues, both attitudinally and demographically, than today. Any candidate who could unite the left the way Jackson did in 88 would have a good shot at the nomination this year.)

Your pessimism is misplaced.


[ Parent ]
So When The Right Name Calls (0.00 / 0)
it is bad. But when the Left does it then it's alright.

Great philosophy. That will give the Progressive Movement lots of credibility. Who wouldn't agree that you should have it both ways?


[ Parent ]
Wow (0.00 / 0)
"Sounds a lot like the religious coalition but 180 degrees different."

That's kinda the idea. How's Bush worked out for ya?

John McCain opposes the GI Bill.


[ Parent ]
Do you oppose the continued presence of troops in Iraq? (0.00 / 0)
Do you oppose a foreign policy based on "preemptive war"?  Do you support health care as a basic right of the individual and universal health insurance as something to be expected of a decent government?  Do you support progressive taxation and investment in our national infrastructure?  Do you support the Constitution of the United States, including the Bill of Rights and specifically the Fourth Amendment?

Honest questions.  One thing I've noticed about you is that repeatedly characterize ideological difference of opinion as something other than what it is--typically using all kinds of ad hominem attacks.  So why don't you declare yourself on some of the substantive issues which are important to progressives and to the netroots, in the interest of furthering this discussion?

The change you've suggested (the only one I see, anyway) is that bloggers simply decide to hold political opinions which are more in line with yours.  If they don't, they're guilty of "name-calling" and "radicalism".  It's a totally dishonest, not to mention condescending, line of argumentation.  If there's one thing I hope the netroots continue to stand for, it's rejecting that totally bankrupt Democrat strategy of "winning" by running away from and demonizing the left.


[ Parent ]
Clinton and African Americans (0.00 / 0)
This is just my gut feeling, but I think Clinton is just playing hardball about getting endorsements, and that strategy is working in the African American community. As much as her positions may not be the best for that constituency, people are just afraid to bet against the winner and get on her bad side. I think the event that drove it home for me was Hillary's appearance with Oakland Mayor, Ron Dellums.

The only gap in my theory is the connection between endorsements and support in polls. Does it really carry that much weight, getting the support of African American politicians?


I think his links to Robert Rubin and the (0.00 / 0)
Hamilton Project account for most of his mistakes and make it impossible for him to appeal to the groups you cite.  Secondly, I think the netroots have failed to reach out to the blacks and the blacks are not informed about Hillary's hostile neoliberal policies.

Efforts need to be made to get more poor people online.  Most computers as old a 10 years old will do it with some refurbishing, but it takes some know how. 


With Obama, what we see is unfortunately all there is. another triangulator (4.00 / 4)
I am definitely not seeing the same thing as you.  Though not resident in Chicago during the 2004 US Senate primary election I was in and out of town a lot, and was politically active there from the mid 70s all the way till I moved away in 2000.

What I saw was Obama entered into the US Senate race late, behind two white Democratic candidates, what my kind of Chicago activist called "Machine Democrats".  The only constituencies left for Barack to claim were African Americans and the left rump of the Democratic party, what old Chicago activists would refer to as the Harold Washington wing of the Democratic party.

He campaigned hard to get those in the city, and equally hard against the Patriot Act on the North Shore.  But once in the Senate for a six year term, and not obligated to court the left, he voted for Patriot Act renewal, and for its successor as well.  It's a pattern he has repeated again and again.  I was at his victory party on primary night in 2004, and the faces I saw there thought they had elected another Paul Wellstone.  I wanted to believe it too.  Lots of us did.  I suppose some still do, but they have to be trying mighty hard.

Barack didn't close the deal because he is well to the right of where he'd have to be to do that. 

It really looks to me like what we see --- his willingness to continue and expand the war, his desire to jack the military budget even further, to parachute troops into nuclear-armed Pakistan, to expand access to health care by making it mandatory like car insurance and penalizing working families who don't buy private policies (the Massachusetts " model)--- all that is ample evidence that Obama is a coldly calculating, risk-averse right-leaning triangulator. 

Being black he gets a lot of undeserved credit from my folks, who have been terribly slow to shed the old Jim Crow era habit of rallying behind any black candidate or public figure, no matter how lacking.  Feeling no pressure from African Americans, and little either from the left, both of whom he can take for granted, Barack  is free to drift ever rightward in search of the DLC Holy Grail, the Republican leaning "swing voter".  Hence he leads among "independents" when you define those as folks who might vote Repub OR Dem, but probably not when you define it from the middle to beyond the left edge of the Democratic party.

But the Repubs are in such disarray that this may be a winning strategy for him, ending up with second place on a Hillary Clinton ticket.

"If you want that good feeling that comes from doing things for other people, then you have to pay for it in abuse and misunderstanding..."
Zora Neale Hurston


That is an interesting take on 2004 (0.00 / 0)
If correct, it shows that I misjudged Obama all along. He was using that coalition out of necessity, nothing more.

[ Parent ]
I'm Pretty Much With Chris (0.00 / 0)
Although I was disillusioned a lot more quickly, it seems, I still held out hope that he would "recover."

After this latest... "atrocity" is really the only word that comes to mind, I'm pretty much inclined to agree with you.  Homophobic appeals are, in this day and age, arguably even more reprehensible coming from someone who "votes right."

It means that he has absolutely no excuse.  And it makes me re-evaluated all that has gone before, as well.  All those benefits of the doubt have hereby been revoked.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
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