Establishment Revolution?

by: Chris Bowers

Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 16:16


This Sunday's New York Times magazine will include a long feature on Barack Obama and foreign policy. Reviewing the article, Ezra Klein and Matthew Ygelsias, who both tend more toward the wonkish than a hack-type such as myself, indicate that that it is Obama's team of foreign policy advisors that they find most appealing about Obama as a candidate. Klein writes:

But if I were going to decide on Obama, this is exactly why. Insofar as there's a real hope for a new foreign policy, I think it lies with Obama. That's not to say Edwards' policies on this are bad, but what moves him is, as far as I can tell, economic injustice at home, so I think his foreign policy would be a bit secondary. And Hillary Clinton's policies would, as far as I can tell, be bad, at least as compared to the other two.

Yglesias writes:

And in foreign policy terms, though Clinton certainly counts some war opponents and some younger rank-and-file people, she and her campaign fundamentally represent continuity with that seem set of political and policy elites who were running the show in 2002 and 2003. Obama represents a break from that; a turn toward people who think a different way, who probably aren't as famous but just might know what they're talking about, and perhaps even more important than that to people whose thinking isn't hobbled by an unwillingness to break with past positions.

Personally, I draw almost the exact opposite conclusion, or at least the exact opposite feeling, from the New York Times article in question. It includes a couple of passage that actually send me through the roof. Here is the first one:

In mainstream foreign-policy circles, Barack Obama is seen as the true bearer of this vision. "There are maybe 200 people on the Democratic side who think about foreign policy for a living," as one such figure, himself unaffiliated with a campaign, estimates. "The vast majority have thrown in their lot with Obama." Hillary Clinton's inner circle consists of the senior-most figures from her husband's second term in office - the former secretary of state Madeleine Albright, the former national security adviser Sandy Berger and the former United Nations ambassador Richard Holbrooke. But drill down into one of Washington's foreign-policy hives, whether the Carnegie Endowment or the Brookings Institution or Georgetown University, and you're bound to hit Obama supporters. Most of them served in the Clinton administration, too, and thus might be expected to support Hillary Clinton. But many of these younger and generally more liberal figures have decamped to Obama. And they are ardent. As Ivo Daalder, a former National Security Council official under President Clinton who now heads up a team advising Obama on nonproliferation issues, puts it, "There's a feeling that this is a guy who's going to help us transform the way America deals with the world." Ex-Clintonites in Obama's inner circle also include the president's former lawyer, Greg Craig, and Richard Danzig, his Navy secretary.

And here is the second one:

In 1981, Obama arrived at Columbia University, where he majored in international relations. He wrote his senior thesis on the North-South debate on trade then raging as part of the demand for a "new international economic order." But he says that he was never much of a lefty. Obama offers himself as the representative of a new generation, free of the dogmas that still burden the Democratic Party. "The Democrats have been stuck in the arguments of Vietnam," he said to me on the campaign plane, "which means that either you're a Scoop Jackson Democrat or you're a Tom Hayden Democrat and you're suspicious of any military action. And that's just not my framework."

Ugh and ugh. The great foreign policy revolution that we would experience under Obama would apparently be orchestrated by a majority of the professional foreign policy wonks within the Democratic establishment, and in the name of triangulating against the left. This is seriously the best we can hope for in terms of changing foreign policy? A Carnegie Endowment, Brookings Institution, Georgetown University, wonk-fueled opposition to "Tom Hayden Democrats?"

I have to run out the door right now, but I have to say how utterly disempowering and infuriating this situation is. We basically have to choose between one overtly anti-progressive foreign policy establishment elite and another overtly anti-progressive foreign policy elite? Damn, that really sucks. I need to phrase all of this better than I am doing right now, but like I said, I have to run. I'll just say for now that I feel this is in many ways emblematic of the frustrating situation progressives are facing in the 2008 Democratic primary, and that it is difficult to know how to respond. 

Chris Bowers :: Establishment Revolution?

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Proportion, much? (4.00 / 2)
While I won't say Clinton isn't the establishment candidate (after she's said she is, who would question it?) I'll have to disagree that Obama is "anti-progressive foreign policy."

Progressive foreign policy in what regard? We stop blowing shit up? Stop invading other nations? Ehem, talk to nations with which we aren't allies?

Beside the fact that the Democratic foreign policy establishment has endorsed Obama, what else could be seen as anti-progressive? So he's uncomfortable being called a liberal. What politician running for president isn't? That doesn't mean he's going to be, uh, "triangulating against the left."


Agreed (0.00 / 0)
This is a common complaint I've seen come up about Obama time and time again.  It's not his position on the issues (which most people who criticize him tend to agree with him on).  It's not his record on the issues (which on most issues is one of the best of the Democratic candidates).  People criticize him because of how he talks about the issues, and who he associates with.

But as we've seen time and time again, just because he publicly says he's all about working together with Republicans and Independents and whatnot, that doesn't mean his position on the issues will change, or that he'll triangulate to make those other groups happy.  He's shown he has the ability to bring those other groups TO HIS POSITION, and I still to this day can not understand what so many people dislike about that.

John McCain <3 lobbyists


[ Parent ]
Hello! Where Have You BEEN This Week? (0.00 / 0)
Digby:

I wrote before that I thought Obama was doing a very clumsy Sistah Soljah in South Carolina with this homophobe gospel singer Donnie McClurkin. Turns out McClurkin is actually emceeing the show and gives a rousing speech at the end about the evils of homosexuality, (and the campaign continues to defend it) so I think there's little doubt that this is intentional.

I'm sure Obama is listening to his advisors tell him that he has to win South Carolina or it's over. And apparently South Carolina is a stew of bigotry and resentment, the place where the dirty tricksters pull out all the stops to win. This kind of thing is perfectly in keeping with that sort of strategy. But as I said before, it's a mistake, particularly for the man whose rationale for running is a desire to heal the nation's political and philosophical wounds.



"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
And has his position on the issues changed? (0.00 / 0)
How do his positions on LGBT issues compare to those of the other candidates?  How does his record compare?

John McCain <3 lobbyists

[ Parent ]
Yeah, What's A Little Homophobia Among Friends??? (0.00 / 0)
If you have to ask, you'll never understand.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
campaign issue (0.00 / 0)
I understand that it was a really stupid campaign move that never should have happened.  I agree with you there.  But this goes back to my original point about how people aren't criticizing his position on the issues or his record on the issues, but rather the process stuff, like how he's campaigning, who he associates with. etc.

John McCain <3 lobbyists

[ Parent ]
Oh For God's Sake! (0.00 / 0)
Back in 1988, a number of Eastern European Nazi collaborators showed up in Bush Sr's campaign.  They were an integral part of the GOP's outreach to immigrant communities.

I suppose that was no biggie, either, right?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
putting words in my mouth (0.00 / 0)
For starters, equating this situation with Nazi's is a bit of a stretch.  More importantly, I never said it was "no biggie."  I'm merely pointing out that the attacks on Obama are not on his positions or his record, but on process and campaign issues.

John McCain <3 lobbyists

[ Parent ]
We were told to fall in line and accept Bill Clinton's 'process and campaign' (0.00 / 0)
equivocations.  He then proceeded to be less than helpful to the progressive movement and the GLBT movements in particular over the course of his two terms. 

Us queers have played this game with politicans before, and we're not inclined to continue doing so.


[ Parent ]
it's hard to know where you're going with this (4.00 / 2)
I really feel you're going down the "everyone is the same" Ralph Nader path, but probably I am misunderstanding.  It seems like you are saying almost anyone who has government experience now is the enemy?  (I do get the triagulation in the second quote.)  I hope you do phrase this better soon, so I can understand what you want. 

What do you think of this part?

Obama speaks with special passion about the need to change America's image in the world - and not only by proving that it can elect a 46-year-old black man with roots in the Muslim world. He returns again and again to the question of what America means to the rest of the world. In one of his speeches, he observed that United States senators typically see "the desperate faces" of Darfur or Baghdad from the height of a helicopter. "And it makes you stop and wonder," he added, "when those faces look up at an American helicopter, do they feel hope, or do they feel hate?" Obama would like to restore the era when people in capitals all over the world could go to the local American cultural center to read books and magazines, the way he could in Jakarta - though now he would add English lessons and vocational training, and "stories of America's Muslims and the strength they add to our country." He argues that we must give emerging powers like India, Brazil, Nigeria and South Africa "a stake in upholding the international order." Obama is an unabashed fan of multilateral institutions. At an event in New Hampshire this summer, I heard him say, "I want to go before the United Nations and say, 'America's back!' " This is a bit too multilateral even for some of his advisers, who take a more skeptical view of the U.N. than he does. But for Obama, our willingness to be constrained by rules that govern others may take precedence over the rules themselves.


New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.

I Will Have Something To Say About This This Weekend (0.00 / 0)
I'm working on a set of diaries about "Questioning vs. Reinforcing Conventional Wisdom," and one of them has to do with the CW on foreign policy generally, and the "War on Terror" in particular.  I agree wholeheartedy that Obama's dismissive talk is yet another reason to decline his kool aid.

But I think he's doing something a bit more subtle, since he's not just dismissing "Tom Hayden Democrats" but the polarization of "Scoop Jackson Democrats" vs. "Tom Hayden Democrats".

Of course, the problem is, "Scoop Jackson Democrats" are now known as neocons, so that's really the kind of polarization I'd like to see any sane politician want to keep, rather than "transcend."

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Elites? (4.00 / 2)
I think (hope?) you misread Klein and Yglesias' posts. The sense I got from them was that the top-tier of foreign policy people (Albright, Holbrooke) are working for Clinton. These are definitely the anti-progressive elite.

Who I read as working for Obama were the people who have dedicated their lives to thinking about foreign policy but haven't made it to the top, maybe because they are more liberal or thinking in uncoventional (read: less militaristic) ways.

Anyone who is a foreign policy advisor to a major presidential candidate is automatically the "foreign policy elite." That's pretty definitional, I think. An instinctive anti-elite orientation isn't going to get you far on comparing presidential advisors. You really have to look at it in terms of content.

I don't really know enough about what Obama's team is proposing (I do like Samantha Power a great deal, though - she's someone who thinks about genocide and problems of evil in the world without that translating into bomb Iran), but their elite status can't disqualify them. Otherwise, all you do is disincentive any progressive from going into foreign policy at all.


Inter-Establishment, Inter-Party Conflict (4.00 / 2)
Chris,

I disagree with your reaction to the two passages that make you go "ugh." Maybe this is just a matter of interpretation, but here goes.

In the first passage, your criticism seems to stem from the fact that many in the DC foreign policy establishment are backing Obama and that you don't like the DC establishment. While I would ordinarily be the last person in the world to defend the DC establishment, I think an important distinction needs to be drawn here that the passage itself calls attention to. Take this quote

"But drill down into one of Washington's foreign-policy hives, whether the Carnegie Endowment or the Brookings Institution or Georgetown University, and you're bound to hit Obama supporters. Most of them served in the Clinton administration, too, and thus might be expected to support Hillary Clinton. But many of these younger and generally more liberal figures have decamped to Obama."

What the author of the piece is pointing to is that Obama's supporters in the foreign policy establishment are not the leaders of the foreign policy establishment. Rather, they are the more ardently progressive middle-managers, researchers, program officers, and scholars. What I'm reading from this is that there is a fundamental divide WITHIN the DC foreign policy establishment...a divide between the more famous, well known leaders of the establishment who are now resting on their laurels from the first Clinton era, and those who are further down the totem pole who embrace a more progressive worldview. The leaders of the foreign policy establishment, in other words, the folks who helped bring about the Iraq mess, are backing Hillary. Whereas it seems that the lower ranks are backing Obama. 

Call me crazy, but I think there is reason to believe that the new guard within our foreign policy think tanks may take a slightly different view of foreign policy that their bosses. The passage you quote implies that much if not more. While these "younger and generally more liberal figures" may not be offering the kind of radical break in foreign policy that you are looking for, I suspect that you might be pleasantly surprised by the more progressive ideas that they are willing to embrace and implement. In any case, there appears to be a meaningful difference between the old guard and the new guard within the DC foreign policy establishment that needs to be acknowledged and better understood.

If the lower ranks in the foreign policy establishment are more closely aligned with the views of the progressive movement (as this article implies), we have every reason to do what we can to empower them. Thus, I think your initial dismay is unjustified.

In the second paragraph you quote, which deals with the arguments of Vietnam, I am more sympathetic with your frustrations, but still not entirely in agreement. I do think the Democratic Party is still haunted by Vietnam and the 1960's generally, but maybe not in the way Obama means.

Perhaps you've heard of the DLC crowd? I would argue that the existence of the DLC is in many ways a reaction to (demonstrably false) perceptions of Democratic views that took form in the 60's and 70's eras. As this blog has pointed out many times, there are still Democrats walking around on a daily basis who believe that the Democratic Party must be as hawkish as possible in order to win elections.

I would contend that it is the DLC and its false caricatures of the rest of the Democratic Party that keeps us "stuck in the arguments of Vietnam." DLC types try to paint those Democrats with whom they disagree as un-serious or irresponsible or hopelessly idealistic, and this is simply not the case. Most Democrats are more dovish than the DLC crowd, but they are also pragmatic, strategic, thoughtful, and careful in their thinking about foreign policy issues. They are not crazed anti-war protesters, naive idealists, or dirty hippies as the DLC crowd would have everyone believe.

The DLC draws these caricatures in order to paint their own views of what Democrats should believe in a more flattering light. And much to my dismay, the DLC and their ilk are very well-funded and have a very loud megaphone through which to blast their views, however incorrect those views may be. The result is that even though they make up a small minority of Democrats, they play a large role in shaping the internal party debate...shaping how all of us perceive the foreign policy divides within our party. By blasting their views, which are no longer valid or relevant or in any way connected to reality, they keep us trapped in the arguments of Vietnam...arguments that the rest of us know died long ago, but which they resurrect for political advantage.

I know what I have said here may not precisely reflect how Obama sees our intra-party foreign policy debate. But whatever his perceptions may be, I think he sees himself as outside of this debate. That alone should be a welcome change for any progressive.

And just for the purpose of full disclosure, I'm a former Obama supporter, currently backing Dodd. And BTW, I really enjoy your writing and posts and this blog generally, so keep up the great work!!!


If you look at what they've produced (0.00 / 0)
Obama's team looks pretty establishment.  The generational thing is more important, not to be cynical, but I suspect many of these people chose Obama because they figured that was their best shot at a higher position. (OK that was cynical).

Warning: Link is naked blog pimp.


[ Parent ]
Peace. Good will. Respect. (4.00 / 2)
Chris, I am not sure where or how you get the idea that true progressive values are on the verge of catching on and taking over.  The so-called far left in this country has a very long way to go before it will capture anything as big as the presidency.  Our economic democracy is not designed to support progressive values except when they make economic sense or when we are flying high economically or as a reaction to right-wing government. Maybe there is a revolution in your lifetime but I have been around a long time and all the progressives ever do is bite the heels of big dogs. Some times the bites are bigger than others.

By being so critical of Obama you are dismissing a great progressive opportunity as imperfect, frustrating and disappointing.  I have been frustrated and disappointed most of my life--holding my noise when I vote the straight party ticket. For the first time I see someone who is left of center and seems to have the cajones to beat the main stream dem machine.

Obama will govern as a progressive in many many ways. But not in all ways.  I also wonder what the hell is a progressive foriegn policy. We all saw the missed opportunities of 9/11. It would be great to get some of those back.  Peace. Good will. Respect. I would be happy if some of our foreign policy was predicated on that.

I know you don't like him but it galls me how you pick on him over Edwards and Clinton.  It just galls. 


Good Analysis (0.00 / 0)
The difference in the Obama team is much more generational than it is based on ideas.  As I wrote over here in a retort to Matt Yglesias, Edwards as had the much more progressive foreign policy in this campaign than compared to Obama.

The generation thing Obama is pushing doesn't do much for me.


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