A Matter Of Trust

by: Chris Bowers

Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 21:18


I like something about every Democratic candidate running for President. Biden is enjoyable in the debates, and has pretty much always been a good speaker. Clinton is a fierce, disciplined campaigner who will do what is necessary to win and doesn't put up with bullshit from the Noise Machine. Dodd has taken leadership on a number of key fights, and has also clearly had a hand in writing some good legislation in the past. Edwards seems to have genuinely transformed from a DLC-nexus Dem into a much more progressive one. Kucinich takes stands on important issues that no other candidate will, like single-payer health care and reducing the size of the national security state. Obama has the potential for a transformative coalition, strikes me as very thoughtful, and would promote a more progressive segment of the professional policy class into power. Richardson is absolutely right on Iraq, and seems to easily have the best grasp of foreign policy of any candidate currently in the race.

At the same time, when the nomination is decided, I don't think I will lament the loss of any of the six candidates who don't win. Even leaving specific issues aside, this is because, at some fundamental level, I don't really trust any of them. Biden has always struck me as someone who talks a good game, but mostly seems to enjoy having the spotlight on himself and gets little done policy-wise for progressives. Clinton seems to vote well, but I can't shake the feeling that on many issues she has her finger in the wind, and will turn to the right as soon as it is politically advantageous to do so. Where was Dodd on these big fights before he started running for President? Edwards has changed so much over the past ten years that I have to wonder how complete or how permanent his progressive transformation is. Kucinich seems self-aggrandizing, occasionally loopy, and uninterested in doing what it takes to change a national campaign. Obama doesn't seem to actually like the activists who are supporting him, and he strikes me as more of a technocrat than a progressive. Richardson has a serious gaffe problem, and also has a real libertarian streak on things like taxes and government spending. While I can see good things coming from any of them winning the nomination and the presidency, I can just as clearly see moments when I will feel betrayed by all of them.

To be elliptical for a moment, let me relay an amusing anecdote from my holiday travels. Yesterday afternoon, back up in Liverpool, New York, along with my brother Andy and his girlfriend Amy, I helped clean out Andy's car before taking it for a thorough, inside and out, car wash. During the cleaning, Andy and I decided that, at long last, it was time to dispose of the Howard Dean sign that had been in the car over the past four years (see the picture on the right). It may seem strange, even pathetic, to just be removing a Dean for America placard from the back window of a car now, but it is actually quite normal for me. I like my presidential candidates the way I like the other relationships in my life: deep and intense. When I date someone, I am always monogamous, and don't wander around. Even aside from romantic relationships, I am something of an anti-connector, preferring a small number of very close relationships to a large group of friends. I am not embarrassed to say that I am pretty shy, that I find unfamiliar social situations uncomfortable, and that it is unusual for me to trust someone enough to really open up.

It goes the same way for presidential candidates. I've helped out quite a few candidates who I don't really trust that much, because I can see that candidate's election as helping achieve my desired political ends in some way. Basically, if they are going to use my support for their ends, I can support them as long as their election can be used to achieve mine. However, for Presidential candidates in primaries, I need a lot more than that. As something of a public figure in progressive politics, I simply am not going to fight hard for a candidate in a primary election, I mean really try to make a positive difference on that candidate's behalf, unless I feel as though I can really trust that person on a deep level. I am not going to publicly lay myself out for someone if I believe that person will, once in office, do things I find abhorrent in a crisis, or a difficult political situation (such as mounting public pressure to invade Iraq, pass a bad trade agreement, attack immigrants, attacks the GLBT community, engage in a major corporate giveaway, etc). I am not going to lay myself for someone, and really work hard to elect that candidate, if I believe that candidate will throw me and my friends under the bus in order to improve his or her political position (by, say positioning oneself against left-wing strawmen). Although I don't want to be too dramatic, I would do that just as soon date someone who I was convinced would cheat on me.

While I can see arguments for why one candidate would be better, or at least less worse than others, the only candidate I have really ever felt that way about was Howard Dean. Notably, I also felt that way about Russ Feingold, and worked quietly behind the scenes to support him during much of 2005 and 2006, but he didn't run. When it comes to both Dean and Feingold, there are issues on which we disagree. However, I never had the sense that supporting them and working hard for them would make me feel used.  When I have disagreed with Dean or Feingold, I never felt that it was because either was fundamentally conservative in any way, that they were elitists, that they valued power more than treating their supporters and allies decently, or that they were following a politically expedient path instead of sticking to their guns. It always felt compatible, open, and honest. It felt like they would have my back. Even when they made mistakes, they would never do so for underhanded reasons or because of bad motives. Dean even sometimes reminded me of my father, I trusted him so much.

This post is a bit confessional, but I felt a need to say it nonetheless. Yesterday, when I was removed a four-year old Howard Dean sign from the back of my brother's car, I felt there had to be a good reason, apart from just policy, that was keeping me from making up my mind in the 2008 primary campaign. I think, in the end, it comes down to a question of trust. If I am going to really put myself on the line for a candidate, I have to trust that person even when I disagree with him or her. When it comes to the current crop of Democratic candidates, I just don't trust any of them strongly enough to volunteer for them during the primary. With only a few weeks to go, it is hard for me to see that change now.

Chris Bowers :: A Matter Of Trust

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A Matter Of Trust | 37 comments
Dean (0.00 / 0)
Do you still trust Dean after his three years as DNC chair?

I wish I'd known about the sign (0.00 / 0)
I would have offered your brother $1 to take it off his hands :-)

the only candidate I have really ever felt that way about was Howard Dean.

I still feel that way about Howard.  Unfortunately, it's really affected how I see this year's candidates because Howard is the standard by which I evaluate my support.  I never had the sense that Howard took his grassroots support for granted and that he appreciated everything we did for him.  There are very few people in politics I can say that about.

It's worth noting that I haven't volunteered for any of the candidates this time around. I have only given money to one, and nowhere near the amount I gave Howard during his campaign.

And I still trust Howard after three years as DNC chair.


heros (0.00 / 0)
I donated to Dean, voted for him and nearly worked on his campaign. I liked the way he used technology and I hoped he would bring that forward thinking to the party. But I never fell into the hero worship that many people had for him, I suspected that I liked the people attracted to his campaign more than the man himself. Later I discovered that I was correct, as he alienated many of his most effective campaign staff.

All our heros have feet of clay. One thing that held Democrats back in the past, and that specifically affects the 'jaded' press corps, was the yearning for a savior. No such person exists, and investing your favorite candidate with that aspect is always a mistake. If you know your candidate's flaws, and can see how they compensate for them, then you will be a more effective advocate, even when they disappoint you.


[ Parent ]
Your assumption (0.00 / 0)
I never fell into the hero worship that many people had for him

is incorrect regarding my comment.  As is this one:

he alienated many of his most effective campaign staff.

That's another discussion for another time. Contrary to your assertion, I'm not in search of a savior.  (That job has already been taken.) 

All our heros have feet of clay.

No shit, Sherlock.  I know Howard's flaws pretty well and still, he remains the standard by which I evaluate candidates.


[ Parent ]
Trust (4.00 / 2)
I understand what you mean Chris.  I was behind Dean in 2003/2004 because I felt like he would not lie to get ahead.

I trust Edwards in the same way now.  I trust him because he doesn't say different things to different crowds.  I trust him because Elizabeth trusts him, and I trust Elizabeth completely.  I trust him because I think between 2004 and today, he's found his voice and shed the establishment advisers he had four years ago.

I hope you can find another candidate you can trust some time.  And please, ignore those who trash Dr. Dean.


It's Like You're Talking About Me (4.00 / 1)
I may feel somewhat differently about one candidate here, anither candidate there, but you've described perfectly how I feel about the field as a whole.

And, I, too, would have felt completely different about Feingold.  Even though I sometimes disagree with him.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Exactly right (0.00 / 0)
I'd add that what I'm interested not just in someone who shares my positions, but someone who shares my priorities. Specifically, we need a president who understands how important demographics are, and will not sacrifice immigration (or the EFCA) under any circumstances.  Similarly, someone who recognizes that telcos and Big Oil are simply not to be messed around with.  Global warming and net policy should be non-negotiable.

I support John McCain because children are too healthy anyway.

Trust, but verify (4.00 / 1)
It would be hard for me to agree more with the expression of distrust that you express toward the candidates personally. I accept your description of yourself as an explanation that assists me, as a reader without any personal acquaintance, to understand your feelings. I do not think that the personal viewpoint is necessary to the sense of distrust.
  Wanting some sort of personal relationship to the President has lost any sense to me. The Presidency is an office, not a kinglike divine right personal to a specific individual. I want a president who will accomplish things. I want someone to make (largely the middle class) most everybody better off.
  I like Edwards statements on policy, and intellectually I have wanted candidates who tell the public what they will do because it fits with my sense that we are a polity with a strong history of "consent of the governed."  But I do not see where Edwards has the connection with and support in the Congress.  Obama's spirit of reconciliation appeals to me, because I feel the animosity from the wingnuts, and return it in kind, but I intellectualize that I do not want to become like them in order to fight them.  Obama offers a government "for all the people." But Obama also does not have any more Lyndon Johnson skills than Edwards, and it appears that he carries much "insider expert" baggage, and it echoes of the "best and brightest" of early Kennedy years that involved a number of missteps.  Ms. Clinton, every fourth or fifth note, hits a clinker that keeps me thinking that she just doesn't get it--we need policy reversals, not just tweaking this or that.  And the baggage of K Street insiders with her seems like so much more of the same.
  It goes on, but I end up feeling each will be ok, but not one gives any assurance of what is to be accomplished for the good--and this is the best opportunity for moving in that direction since 1964. Who knows when it might happen again?

Well you and Paul are in deep trouble... (4.00 / 2)
...'cause a candidate like Dean only comes along once in a generation, if then, last guy I saw like him was JFK and we know what happened to him and Bobby. Don't we.

I am struck by the attitude that none of the current candidates are 'good' enough for ya.

Edwards, my guy, is talking like no one's talked since Dean....

Dodd is pretty solid on the issues....

Kucinich is willing to take a stand that most pols would consider suicide.

So....

You're just gonna watch from the sidelines then?

'Cause my 'gut' tells me that neither The Hill nor Obama can win the general and while that could allow us to put a stake through the heart of the Democrat Loser Caucus it's not gonna be a fun ride for the next several cycles.

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


It isn't that they aren't "good" enough (4.00 / 1)
(I'm of course speaking for myself here, but I think a lot of us are in the same boat.)

It's that none of them stand out.  Edwards has impressed me, I like him more than I thought I would, but Chris hit the nail right on the head.  I can't shake the feeling that the guy was a very good litigator, and so *of course* he knows how to give a decent speech.  I don't know how far I believe it.

I've been waiting at least nine months for Obama to start living up to the hype.  He was supposed to be that transformative candidate, the one who built on Dean's legacy.  I remember hearing about the launch of his facebook platform and just thinking "oh boy, I can't wait to see what's next."  I'm still waiting, though.

Kucinich is just filling the "I'll say the most liberal things" slot.  There's merit to that during the primary season, but listening to the guy makes me think "oh, THAT's what people mean by 'not presidential enough.'"

Hillary is DLC.  Richardson looked more appealing before the campaigning began.  I haven't seen anything from Dodd and Biden to separate them from the pack.

Dean was an inspiration.  Part of that certainly was the moment that he stepped into.  We had a party that couldn't seem to win and was dominated by a few lousy campaign strategists who kept hawking the same "run to the center" strategy that had been failing the last few times.  We also had a technological opportunity that only an insurgent candidate could afford to embrace.  It's possible that we don't have the same sort of moment now - that no candidate could live up to Dean this cycle, because there just isn't the right space to be filled.  But the bottom line is that I don't have a candidate preference right now because none of the candidates has managed to really stand out from the others.  I'd say my preference right now is "not Hillary," but hell, if she wins the nomination, it's not like I won't become a vocal supporter or anything.  I didn't like Kerry in the last primary cycle, but I backed him when he became our guy.

If some candidate manages (real soon) to step up and distinguish themself, I'll get vocally involved.  If not, I'll just wait to get real engaged until the general.  Nothing wrong with keeping your powder dry if there isn't a stark difference between the choices.  And I think that's particularly true for someone in Chris's position, given that he's become the go-to polling guy.  If he was a vocal Richardson or Edwards supporter, that would certainly affect how people view his polling updates...


[ Parent ]
Agree, except that ... (0.00 / 0)
I think Biden distinguishes himself from the pack plenty by being the worst of the lot. Richardson, meanwhile, is at least the 2nd worst campaigner. But only because Kucinich is in the race.

And I still hold the Marcotte and McEwan thing against Edwards. He seems to have learned nothing from his disastrous face off with Cheney in 2004; refusing to challenge the premises of an attack, and ultimately ignoring the threats and harassment they were subjected to. He might talk about fighting for my interests, but I don't see the capacity in him to do it. If he's the nominee, I hope he proves me wrong.


[ Parent ]
no way is Biden the worst (0.00 / 0)
He has made some big mistakes, like supporting the bankruptcy bill, but on the whole he is more liberal than Richardson for sure. He has been a supporter of public financing for elections since the 1970s.

His voting record on many domestic issues is solid.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.


[ Parent ]
He Just Stabs You In The Back When It Matters Most (0.00 / 0)
He's the #1 reason that Clarence Thomas is on the Supreme Court, for example.  After the Anita Hill revelations broke, he arranged a hurried 1 1/2 day weekend hearing, and scared off at least one and possibly two corroborating witnesses.

The man is a disaster, not waiting to happen, but happening over and over and over again.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Its always been a matter of trust (0.00 / 0)
You have to trust their word on what they will do and their ability on their ability to do it.  I trusted Patrick Murphy, and I feel that he has very much rewarded my trust.  Like you said, I don't always agree with him, but I trust him that he used his judgement when we disagree.

I trust Obama, I think he has his heart in the right place, is willing to tell the truth even when I don't want to hear it, and can win the general in a transformative way.  I was very pleased to hear Patrick Murphy explain why he supports Obama and that is is also based on his belief that Obama is genuine and that Murphy can trust him.  It doesn't hurt that he pointed out how hard Obama worked to help congressional democrats win in 2006.

You might trust someone else, or none of them.  I trust Barack Obama.

My job is not to represent Washington to you, but to represent you to Washington- Obama
Philly for Obama


Like I said before (4.00 / 1)
The 2008 Democratic Primary is the 2000 general election writ inside the party rather than between the parties. The same language and ploys and excuses.

Congressional races (0.00 / 0)
I was shocked to read this and all I can say is me too.

Edwards is more and more coming out with great positions, but ya know, I have some other pieces from behind the scenes where he said something different to corporate donor money,  as well as his entire voting record from the Senate and that is where I just plain have that awful feeling.

Then, he wouldn't say voting for the China PNTR was a bad thing and that of all of the trade agreements has hurt the US most economically.

I usually vote Kucinich for he matches my positions best but this time he's done something I'm really shaking my head over, so I'm really not that gusto, plus I am extremely aware of some very good bills that are not even getting co-sponsors that need to be passed, i.e. he has not co-sponsored them when they are in complete alignment with his supposed positions and that really bothers me.

So, I guess I'm going to focus on congressional races on those whose positions I'm sure about or where the opposition is such an enemy of professional workers it's an "anybody but them" situation.

Not good at all when the economic signals are looking like deep , quotes about how economists have "no idea" how the housing crisis will unwind in a global economy, and we have major financial figures whispering the "D" word as well.

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


I also trusted Howard Dean (0.00 / 0)
People focused on Iraq and gay civil unions, but for me it was Dean's stances on the other issues that made me trust his judgment. His sanity on drug legalization (he opposed it, but wanted to treat drug use as a medical problem) and gun control (leave it up to the states) was refreshing.  If every candidate in the field had been identical on Iraq, Dean still would have been my first choice out of the gate.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

A beautiful post, THANKS Chris! (0.00 / 0)
n/t

And with that last paragraph you seem to confirm the first opening paragraphs (4.00 / 1)
from the Lakoff's book "Thinking Points":
Richard Wirthlin, chief strategist for former President Ronald Reagan, made a discovery in 1980 that profoundly changed American politics. As a pollster, he was taught that people vote for candidates on the basis of the candidates' position on issues. But his initial polls for Reagan revealed something fascinating:Voters who didn't agree with Reagan on the issues still wanted to vote for him. Mystified, Wirthlin studied the matter further. He discovered just what made people want to vote for Reagan.
Reagan talked about values rather than issues. Communicating values mattered more than specific policy positions. Reagan connected with people; he communicated well. Reagan also appeared authentic he seemed to believe what he said. And because he talked about his values, connected with people, and appeared authentic, they felt he could trust him.

For those four reasons - values, connection, authenticity, and trust- voters identified with Reagan; they felt he was one of them. It was not because all his values matched theirs exactly. It was not because he was from their socioeconomic class or subculture. It was because they believed in the integrity of his connection with them as well as the connection between his worldview and his actions.

Later on in that first chapter he writes:

Issues are secondary-not irrelevant or unimportant, but secondary. A position on issues should follow from one's values, and the choice of issues and policies should symbolize those values.

A primary race is a way to determine the candidate who best reflects our values as individuals and who displays trust, authenticity, can communicate those values effectively and connect with people.

He says there are 4 traps to avoid( still in the first chapter):

  • The Issue Trap
  • The Poll Trap
  • The Laundry List Trap
  • The Rationalism Trap
  • The No-Framing Necessary Trap
  • The Policies are Values Trap
  • The Centrist Trap
  • The "Misunderestimating" Trap
  • The Reactive Trap
  • The Spin Trap
  • The Policyspeak Trap
  • The Blame Game Trap

    His book(Thinking Points) and Drew Westen's book (The Political Brain) should be on Christmas book lists for the progressive activist in your life.



  • Trust the Voters (0.00 / 0)
    I've been thinking about trust in this race the last couple of weeks, because there are a couple of supporters of other candidates here in New Hampshire who keep blogging that they can't trust Hillary Clinton. One of the reasons I support Hillary, however, is that I do trust her - because she trusts the voters to understand that in 2008, we can't rely on 30 second soundbites, bumper sticker slogans or simplistic answers to clean up the mess that George W. Bush has created.  She also is pragmatic, and has common sense, which, when you are cleaning up a big mess, is important.
     

    Trust (0.00 / 0)
    I like how you turn the conventional trust argument on its heads. The political poobahs want us to spend time asking which candidate we trust the most. Frankly, I'm more interested in the candidate who trusts ME.

    [ Parent ]
    Amen, brother. (0.00 / 0)
    I may have stripped all the Dean bumper-stickers off my car almost 4 years ago, but there are still a few stuck on my soul (I was a Dean Meet-up coordinator here in MD).

    I feel similarly towards the Dem candidates except for the positive feelings. Of the bunch, Edwards is really hitting my buttons but, as Markos has pointed out, his taking public financing has hamstrung his run against the pukes in the general. I mainly support Edwards now because he's not Hillary/Obama.

    Two years ago all my day dreams were on how to defeat the Republicans, now they're on how to crush Steney Hoyer, Al Wynn, Diane Feinstein, etc. in their respective primaries.

    These bastards have so poisoned it for me, I can hardly bring myself to visit my county Dem office where I've been a regular for four years.

    I think it's going to take another couple of election cycles and a lot more suffering for the country before we get a true progressive Congress and president. By then I'll be an old man.

    Sigh.

    "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain


    This post (0.00 / 0)
    First of all, thank you. This post articulates a number of things that I haven't been able to figure out just how to say. I felt the same way about Howard Dean and I felt the same way about Governor Patrick when I worked on his campaign. But despite the best efforts of many of my friends who support varying candidates, I just can't go out there and put in the effort I did on those campaigns.

    That I'm undecided frustrates many of my friends working on either the major campaigns. I'm totally undecided but I have a history of voting in every single election (down to stupid special-municipal elections where only 6% of my city votes) and I follow the campaign very, very closely. I used to think that many people who were undecided at this point just weren't paying attention, but it's simply not the case; sometimes it's just hard to know who to trust.

    So, thank you for writing this. I now have a link to point to when people ask me why I can't just support Obama or I can't just get on the Clinton bandwaggon or I can't be "true to my progressive roots," and support Edwards or I don't support the "most qualified resume"... etc.


    Jesus H Christ! (0.00 / 0)
    I slip off for a few days out of blogging range - and return to find that Chris has been trusting politicians!

    (Or, at least, contemplating doing so.)

    Who next? Used car salesmen?

    Here's the test: will a pol tell you the whole truth, without any attempt to deceive, or put a gloss on? Of course not! Never been known.

    Like the old hack said, If you want someone to trust in Washington, get a dog.


    We Will Listen To You Once You Are Halfway Honest (0.00 / 1)
    Change your name to "cynic06," and then maybe you'll have an ounce of credibility.

    At least folks will honestly know what to expect from you.

    "You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


    [ Parent ]
    Promises, promises... (0.00 / 0)
    For instance, some lefties might have been moved to trust their fellow progs in the Out of Iraq Caucus to stand united behind their unequivocal July 19 pledge not to vote for any Iraq funding except for withdrawal and redeployment.

    They'd have found their trust had been misplaced.

    Which politician have you trusted? And, how did that work out, exactly?


    [ Parent ]
    uh, meta-comment... (4.00 / 1)
    Open Left's niche in the blogosphere is essentially that it provides some of the most sophisticated analysis and discussion for progressives.

    What's with the whole "politicians-are-all-liars" bit?  I mean dude, I stopped finding that a compelling argument before I was old enough to *vote*.

    Politics is complex, its messy, and often disappointing.  That's especially true during election season, because elections have never been won through nuanced policy discussion.  The thing is, politics is also pretty much the only game in town.  So we discuss it, strategize, and try to make it better.

    I'm just sayin', this isn't exactly the audience that is going to have an ah-hah moment around statements like "you just can't trust those Washington politicians."


    [ Parent ]
    Agree, but... (0.00 / 0)
    Don't trust politicians is so very much not all pols are the same.

    There's absolutely a need to apply judgement to evidence about particular pols in particular situations. To look at a pol's record, the pressures brought to bear on him and so forth.

    Thus, when Uncle Harry said there weren't the votes to stop cloture on Alito, I was inclined to believe him.

    And when the July 19-ers made their pledge, I was inclined not to believe them.

    Trust was not an issue that arose in either case - I don't quite see why it should have done.

    Of course, in one sense, voting for a pol might be said to be putting your trust in him.

    But only up to a point: you're picking one of a limited choice of candidates. Once elected, you have no power to affect the conduct of government until the next election.

    So - in that way, voting for a guy is kinda sorta like trusting him.

    But - what if he's the lesser of two bums? What if he's an OK-looking guy who you know will have all kinds of pressures on him to renege on commitments?

    And - why would you want to trust a pol anyway? Trust implies going beyond exercising your judgement on the available evidence to making a leap of faith.

    And that idea simply creeps me out!


    [ Parent ]
    Politicians Are Not Your Friends (0.00 / 0)
    With rare exceptions, politicians are not your friends.  The vast majority of people do not know politicians personally, other than possibly their city council person, or maybe a school board member.  But you're using a standard of trust that's implicitly based on personal relationships.  It is wildly inappropriate by design.

    The evidence you are pointing to as saying something about individual trustworthiness is actually evidence of group dynamics, institutional norms and other group effects.

    You routinely misread politics in this manner, and it is directly correlated with your cynicism, which, in its close-mindedness, is the exact opposite of skepticism.

    "You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


    [ Parent ]
    Whose design? (0.00 / 0)
    When you say something like this:

    "But you're using a standard of trust that's implicitly based on personal relationships.  It is wildly inappropriate by design."

    I'm left slightly baffled, especially during the primary campaign season.  As I see it - the standard of trust you claim skeptic06 is using is precisely the same standard that most politicians would like to instill in myself and all the other voters.  If this standard is "wildly inappropriate by design" - I have to ask: "Who designed it?"

    If your answer is NOT skeptic06, then why aim your barbs in his direction?


    "It sounds wrong...
         ...but its right."


    [ Parent ]
    We're All Responsible For The Ideas We Employ (0.00 / 0)
    The extreme examples make the principle fairly obvious: someone who employs racist, sexist or homophobic ideas is held accountable for them.  The same principle applies to all ideas, however.

    Ideas have consequences.  Advance the ideas, and you advance the consequences.  Fail to question the ideas, and that is really no excuse, particularly with the internets providing a whole universe full of counter-arguments.

    I find the point you make particularly noteworthy:

    the standard of trust you claim skeptic06 is using is precisely the same standard that most politicians would like to instill in myself and all the other voters

    since it indicates just how conventional skeptic06's thinking really is at bottom, notwithstanding the faux outsider stance.

    I realize this deserves a more detailed argument on my part, to give the full scope of the reasoning behind it.  But the basic point is that of course it is foolish to believe the great man theory of history, and all the entailments that follow from it--including mistaking folks you see on tv for your friends.  (An entailment, as well, of the way our nervous systems are wired, since we evolved in small groups so that faces we saw all the time were our friends, or at least fellow tribe-mates with whom we had to basically get along).

    I'll have to add that to my list of "diaries to write."

    "You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


    [ Parent ]
    Yes, but, where's the answer to my question? (0.00 / 0)
    "If this standard is "wildly inappropriate by design" - I have to ask: "Who designed it?"

    Are you trying to tell me that the "design" is derived from the natural history of our evolutionary past?

    On "conventional" thinking: You, sir, have written and posted extensive diaries and comments that very strongly suggest a kind of "insanity" on the part of the US political system - especially with regard to Republicans and conservatives.  You've described, in great detail, the chasms between the public face of the politicians - i.e. what they SAY they stand for, and their public actions - i.e. what they ACTUALLY vote for, all the while pondering how to make such contradictions more apparent to the general public. 

    If the concept of trust for a politician that is based on personal contact and friendship is "wildly inappropriate", yet all (most?) politicians aim to instill that kind of trust, then this appears to be yet another example of an insanity in the US political culture.

    I happen to believe that one way to more clearly reveal such  ridiculously discordant aspects of the culture (political and otherwise) is to act them out - AS IF THEY WERE LOGICAL.  This is, I think, the essence of the satire that folks like Stephen Colbert utilize.  He enacts the public image of a conservative pundit and thereby, shows everyone just how ridiculous it is.

    Same applies to "conventional thinking".  To the extent that such is based on fantasy and "insanity", such can be revealed by acting as though it were based on thoughtful logic and clearly depicting where it falls short.  I think you missed that opportunity when you chose to attack and demean skeptic06, instead.



    "It sounds wrong...
         ...but its right."


    [ Parent ]
    The Design Is In The Rightwing Narrative Framing (0.00 / 0)
    Look at my original statement.  The stuff about evolutionary history was added as a parallel contributory factor.  It was not the original subject.

    Republicans--and conservatives more generally--are always arguing about government in terms of personal virtue.  This is one of their core ideological narratives.

    This is something that everyone involved in politics should be aware of.  It goes back at least as far as Aristotle, and his argument that the master is better suited to make political decisions for his slave than the slave is for himself.  It's a matter of his superior character, don'tcha know!

    But, obviously it would be a good idea for me to spell this out in a full-length diary.

    So noted.

    "You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


    [ Parent ]
    Wasn't it Truman (4.00 / 1)
    who said, "If you want a friend in Washington, get a dog."  If all else fails, you can make the dog the centerpiece of a key speech (Checkers, Fala).

    [ Parent ]
    all candidates are flawed (4.00 / 1)
    My brother-in-law lived in Vermont for most of Dean's tenure as governor, and many progressives and environmentalists felt he did sell them out on several issues.

    I understand why people feel such affection for Howard Dean as a candidate, but I guess I am more cynical.

    Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.


    The Movement Enables/Makes the Politician (4.00 / 3)
    After being disappointed in many ways, I've given up on trusting politicians.

    A good progressive politician does three things:

    (1) fights for the common good,

    (2) provides leadership to bring people together to fight for the common good,

    (3) gets elected to office.

    Unfortunately, only the third task is rewarded. Those who are great at (1) and (2), but not so good at (3) are relegated to the dustbin of history. So successful politicians, especially those who have made it to the point that they can run for President, always are good at (3). And when a conflict arises between (3) and the other two, politicians often choose to get elected over doing what is right.

    I don't see any way around this. Even the best politician will sell us out occasionally.

    So I don't look to politicians for pure leaders -- I look outside of electoral politics. And even there, the temptations of money, ego, sex, and power often drive the best people to act badly.

    Among politicians, I just select the person I think will do the best and sell us out the least. Then I work like hell -- by pushing strongly for progressive issues and perspectives -- to make it easy for them to act well and difficult or dangerous for them to sell us out.

    Any of the Democratic Presidential candidates will act well if we pressure them enough, defend their progressive stances, and criticize them when they sell out. A strong progressive movement creates strong progressive politicians.


    I still have a Dean bumper sticker (0.00 / 0)
    I think you cover my thoughts on this as well. I didn't always agree with Dean (still don't). But I have never felt from any of them what I felt with Dean: that he really, truly, respected my point of view and would, as you say, "have my back".

    He was a good point man.

    Still is.


    A Matter Of Trust | 37 comments
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