The Cynicism of Obama's 'Closing' Argument

by: Matt Stoller

Sat Dec 29, 2007 at 01:45


If the primary were held today, I don't know whether I'd vote for Obama or Edwards.  I was leaning towards Obama, but I can't honestly put myself there anymore, as I found Obama's closing argument quite frustrating.  Obama bragged about having ended the lobbyist-dominated culture in DC, saying the following: "I did the same thing in Washington when we passed the toughest lobbying reform since Watergate. I'm the only candidate in this race who hasn't just talked about taking power away from lobbyists, I've actually done it."

When did this happen?  Did all of collectively miss the moment from 2004-2007 when Obama's work in the Senate removed power from lobbyists?  I had no idea Obama took power from lobbyists in DC, and neither apparently did lobbyists in DC, who, unaware they had lost power, ensured that the Apprpropriation bills would have tens of billions for oil, coal, and nuclear, that the Farm bill would be a $200B monstrosity, and that the war would be funded with new blank checks every few months.  It's weird how they missed the memo from Obama.

Or maybe Jeff Birmbaum of the Washington Post was correct in his article about Obama's ethics legislation, in listing the various ways that DC power players were exploiting its loopholes as soon as the ink was dry.  Here's one loophole of many I found comical.

Along the same lines, lobbyists, who are banned from organizing travel for lawmakers, are thinking about asking their assistants to do it -- an action that would skirt the prohibition.

I love that this one.  It's like, Obama's ethics legislation was so strict that it forced assistants to make travel arrangements.  Apparently another part of the bill barred all cash gifts to lawmakers unless paid in untraceable hundred dollar bills, and another part of this strict legislation allows lawmakers the use of only uncut cocaine.

The toughest lobbying reform since Watergate?  Really?  Regardless of whether you support Obama or not, that he cites this as a major accomplishment should give you serious pause as to his judgment.  Either he believes that it solved the problem in DC, which is foolish, or he doesn't, in which case he is being disingenuous in bragging about taking power away from lobbyists.  He also believes that no one, least of all Iowa voters or his own supporters, care that he is citing as his major accomplishment in DC a policy idea that is universally considered a joke and/or a failure.  It's so cynical as to be comical.

The reality is that Obama has no serious accomplishments he can point to which suggest he has rejected 'the Washington establishment' and found an alternative path.  Neither, of course, does Edwards or Clinton.  But I find Obama's boasting of his ethics accomplishment exceptionally dishonorable.  Everyone knows DC is as bad as it has ever been, and that the ethics bill wasn't even a band-aid.

Matt Stoller :: The Cynicism of Obama's 'Closing' Argument
What does a real leader look like?  I think all of us could agree that Abraham Lincoln isn't a bad model.  And that's where Chris's critique comes in.  Chris criticized Obama's notion that turning up the partisan heat on Republicans is counterproductive, and that it was 'hope' that freed the slaves.  Read Abraham Lincoln's Cooper Union speech, delivered in February of 1860, about two months from now at the equivalent time point in the electoral cycle.  The speech was a masterpiece of logic, as well as exceptionally partisan. 

The thrust of the speech organized itself around the notion that the South had placed the Republican Party itself in a position where compromise itself had become both impossible and undesirable.

Let us be diverted by none of those sophistical contrivances wherewith we are so industriously plied and belabored - contrivances such as groping for some middle ground between the right and the wrong, vain as the search for a man who should be neither a living man nor a dead man - such as a policy of "don't care" on a question about which all true men do care - such as Union appeals beseeching true Union men to yield to Disunionists, reversing the divine rule, and calling, not the sinners, but the righteous to repentance - such as invocations to Washington, imploring men to unsay what Washington said, and undo what Washington did.

Neither let us be slandered from our duty by false accusations against us, nor frightened from it by menaces of destruction to the Government nor of dungeons to ourselves. LET US HAVE FAITH THAT RIGHT MAKES MIGHT, AND IN THAT FAITH, LET US, TO THE END, DARE TO DO OUR DUTY AS WE UNDERSTAND IT.

If you have never read that speech, it's a beautiful and clear statement of principle.  And it shows that Lincoln was able to pair certainty of logic with humility of purpose, and moral clarity with political combat.  Obama does neither.  He must cynically brag about how he is not part of the DC establishment that obviously loves him and fetes him with wonderful press, while feeding bullshit to his supporters about what wonderful new bureaucratic and irrelevant rules lobbyists must now follow.  Lincoln believed in principle, and principle led him to partisanship.  Obama believes that assistants, not lobbyists themselves, should have to arrange bribes.


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Correction (4.00 / 1)
Obama does not "brag about having ended the lobbyist-dominated culture in DC." Rather, as you might note in the actual text of his speech, he frames his ethics legislation in DC in the context of "[taking] on the lobbyists." Clearly, the two things are not the same. Obama said the latter, not the former.

Indeed, an important rationale for Obama's campaign is that the work isn't done. If his legislation had finished the job, why would he be running? He knows it didn't. He cites his legislation as evidence of his past work in the field, and as proof that it remains a policy focus for him


except (4.00 / 2)
It did not work.  At all.  Nothing he did made any difference in reducing the power of lobbyists.

[ Parent ]
Perhaps (0.00 / 0)
I'm not speaking to the effectiveness of this specific piece of legislation. Rather, I take issue with placing an absolute claim in Obama mouth -- a claim he simply does not make.

[ Parent ]
Nothing? (4.00 / 3)
Every government contract is now on the web, for all to see and every earmark is now revealed along with their sponsor.  This is a major first step.  He was fighting both parties on this, and apparently some in the so-called progressive blogs as well.  Your cynicism goes to what end?  Instead of attacking someone who actually is making a difference you could spend your time taking the tools he's giving you and start connecting the dots.

[ Parent ]
change (0.00 / 0)
No one is claiming that it ended Lobbyist power, and he can probably claim that its the strongest since Watergate because it doesn't have much competition.  That we got anything passed is an accomplishment.  Obviously the job is not done, Obama is saying that he has done something and risk the anger of lobbyists.

We still need more, but the bill that Obama is boasted about did improve things.  Most notably the two year ban on lobbying after a leaving Congress inspire folks like Lott to retire early rather than serve out their full terms and have to follow the new law.

My job is not to represent Washington to you, but to represent you to Washington- Obama
Philly for Obama


[ Parent ]
diary needs fillling out (0.00 / 0)
gname and DD2 have excellent points.  I would add another point in that you do not analyze all the key provisions of the bill but just pick one in order to cast it as a weak bill.  Please see this page for a little more info on it:

http://obama.senate....

And the work on ethics and government reform go beyond the bill you cite.

This website would not exist if not for Obama's work:

http://obama.senate....

Finally, I do not have the link handy but I believe the phrase  about it being the strongest anti-lobbying bill since Watergate came from a newspaper editorial.

Anyway, happy new year Matt.


[ Parent ]
Nothing? (4.00 / 1)
Trett Lott resigned because of that. Period. He had to otherwise he couldn't have started lobbying. It didn't do nearly enough but It didn't do nothing.

Do you know where he got the line about Watergate? Common Cause

"The bill contains the most far-reaching ethics and lobby reforms since Watergate"

http://www.commoncau...

It didn't do enough. But it didn't do "nothing" and Obama was pushing for a stronger bill. But do you know what? Most of the amendments trying to strengthen it he offered were voted down.

What has John Edwards done on ethics reform? Zip. When he got to vote on public financing he voted against it. When McCain-Feingold was being negotiated Clinton started yelling at him for being "outrageous". This isn't enough and Obama says so himself but it's a damn lot more then what was there before and it's far better then what any of the other candidates have done.

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power


[ Parent ]
I call BS (0.00 / 0)
What has John Edwards done on ethics reform? Zip. When he got to vote on public financing he voted against it. When McCain-Feingold was being negotiated Clinton started yelling at him for being "outrageous".

Are you talking about this PF amendment? It's worth noting that many Democratic senators voted against it, including Feingold and Durbin. Feingold called Edwards a "terrific asset" in navigating the McCain-Feingold bill through the Senate.

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[ Parent ]
I'm talking about the very thing (0.00 / 0)
I see that but I haven't been able to get anyone to answer me as to why he voted for against it was it assumed that the bill would not pass with it in or what? I've asked many Edwards supporters about this and none have been able to tell me why.

Alright I was a bit to vague he has done nothing for ethics reform if you consider ethics reform to be lobbying reform. It is true that he was worked hard on McCain-Feingold and I'm glad he did. I guess the two examples I used were not related to lobbying reform but more general systematic reform.

Let me say that again. John Edwards didn't do anything in the Senate for lobbying reform to my knowledge. He also voted against a public financing amendment. To his credit he worked hard for McCain-Feingold and has never taken a dime from lobbyists. My point is that he doesn't seem to have the focus on systematic issues like media policy, ethics reform and election reform. He isn't horrible on any of them but it doesn't seem to be his focus or passion. Obama has focused on those kind of issues for his entire career. I spend most of my activism focusing on those issues and therefore I support him.

That better?

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power


[ Parent ]
Edwards voted against the PF amendment (0.00 / 0)
because it was part of the McCain-Feingold bill, and he was working with Feingold to make sure the whole bill passed. Feingold himself voted against the amendment for the same reason.

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[ Parent ]
That's what I think (0.00 / 0)
But I haven't found any official source for that. And people like Paul Wellstone voted for it so I'm just a little confused on that and it's a huge issue for me.

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power

[ Parent ]
Well (0.00 / 0)
If that's what you thought, how come you keep citing it as proof that Edwards was once against public financing? Even if you just don't know one way or another (i.e. you think it's possible that he had other reasons for voting against the amendment that actually being against it), wouldn't you just not bring it up?

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[ Parent ]
Driving Tent Lott out of government is a pretty good sign of progress made. (4.00 / 1)


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[ Parent ]
To be fair, (0.00 / 0)
if you're trying to apply a set of standards to one candidate, then you must to the other.  Please compare Edwards to the same criteria.  Otherwise, you're being particularly unfair to Obama. 

What did Edwards do or what has he done to stop lobbyists?
Please explain, if they did try to do something, but it didn't happen, why that way?

If you reply, as many have, "Well, you really can't compare Edwards to Obama because Edwards has not been in Congress", then I suggest you take a look at this fact:  This makes Edwards "unknown" in this area.  Further, if you include Edwards "conversion", the belief that it really happened is only based on promises he's made.  There is no history to use to show that this is really what he means.  Once he is in Congress and all that power is vested in him, we have to look at what Edwards' history has been in regard to similar experiences in the past.  What has Edwards done when he's actually had the power?  How has he used it?

I haven't seen any blogger take on this aspect of John Edwards.

So, with all this talk about how we want a sure thing if we can get it, Obama's record far outshines Hillary's, at least in my opinion.  Others may think differently but at least there's documentation there to substantiate a claim for either candidate. 

In the case of John Edwards, all the documentation we have points to a guy who is not progressive and, instead, points to a guy who, imo, goes with the flavor of the day if it gets him what he wants.

OK.  Obviously I haven't a very good opinion of John Edwards, but, to me, all I have is promises and apologies.  Not much there for me to vote for.  After the genocide we have seen under the Bush administration, I need someone with foreign policy experience who will make a difference in that region of the world.  That's either Obama or Hillary and to me, Hillay is out.


[ Parent ]
Edwards and his supporters (0.00 / 0)
haven't been the one tauting his record as proof certain that despite what he says he will govern progressive. That's been Obama. WHen you put it out there like that for the last few months like and his supporters have, that he will be progressive, his record in the Senate should demostrated it.

The difference here is that we realize Edwards is imperfect, but moving in the right direction. Obama while starting off in the right direction has moved away in actual outcomes in the last few years from his initial promises to lead progressively.


[ Parent ]
But that is not my understanding (0.00 / 0)
In fact, Obama has maintained one of the most progressive voting records in Congress.  I think you may be listening to spin instead of looking up fact.  I've seen the comparisons.  I'll try and find some links for you.

[ Parent ]
You do that (4.00 / 1)
and point out while you are at it where he's lead on issues and been decisive about how the legislation occured.

[ Parent ]
Now, now, (0.00 / 0)
you don't have to get nasty.

[ Parent ]
still waiting for that info (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
and (4.00 / 1)
Yes, he did brag about it.  What else could he mean by passing the toughest legislation since Watergate?

[ Parent ]
"ended"? (0.00 / 0)
When did Obama say he "ended" the influence or lobbyists in DC?

[ Parent ]
gname is right (4.00 / 1)
You're putting words in Obama's mouth here and then getting angry with him over those words.

Obama clearly doesn't assert (or even really believe, apparently) that his ethics legislation has somehow "ended the influence of lobbyists in Washington."

Post-Watergate reforms obviously didn't put an end to lobbyist influence, and if Obama really believed his contemporary reforms were somehow bigger/better/bolder/stronger than that post-Watergate legislation, he would have just said his reforms were the "toughest ever" not the "toughest since Watergate."


[ Parent ]
I pity Obama (0.00 / 0)
Because he is stuck in the Senate. To make matters worse, he is new to the Senate. This congress has been a disaster since Bush took office, and Obama is smart enough to realize this. What could he have possibly accomplished in the last three years - even if he had repeatedly risked his neck and pushed for leadership?
What can Reid accomplish now? What can senior senators with a record of leadership even accomplish? Yes, Dodd is impressive - but who else has been?

Obama is a product of this contemporary congress and we can't expect him to have been anything else. Even the boldest maneuvers and greatest victories would still be met with a veto pen - every time. And seeing that he has a presidential primary to win, do you really think he would want to be in this race if he had a record of repeated defeats in the Senate, which is what he would surely have faced in the 60-votes-to-pass, 2/3rds to sustain Senate of the last year and a half. Not to mention the Republican senate before that.

This whole primary has convinced me that sitting Senators should not run for president. Look at how much more freedom Edwards has with his policy positions and rhetoric. Obama could never get away with that type of campaign because he would have to vote in accordance or risk looking like a hypocrite.  Both are untenable positions. Imagine if Obama had voted against funding the war at every opportunity - he'd have a voting record in line with Kucinich!

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra


I don't quite get your post (0.00 / 0)
It is late and maybe this is snark.  I think it would be great to have more than a handful of senators that show leadership.  And yes I would have loved to have seen him have the courage to vote against funding the war.  Kucinich is right just not convincing.  The truth is that Obama is not very convincing in the senate either.

His legislative efforts are all in the "symbolic" but not effective range.  He likes to "get along" and reach across the aisle.  It shows in the results.

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[ Parent ]
Why do you think ... (0.00 / 0)
sitting Senators rarely win? ..  it's because their records can be used against them .. after all .. when was the last sitting Senator to win before JFK?

[ Parent ]
Another little noted but quite impressive (0.00 / 0)
Obama accomplishment took place during a recent 2 hour swing through Minneapolis-St. Paul, in which he and Mike Huckabee singlehandedly rebuilt that collapsed bridge (although word is that St. Mike the 13th Apostle had a little, um, help from "on high"--and I'm not referring to Madrassah boy's Colombian connection). I can't believe that the media missed that one too.

/snark

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" -- Alexander Hamilton


McCain-Feingold? (0.00 / 0)
Can't mention that one, of course.  Might hurt him in NH.

Different Birds (0.00 / 0)
McCain-Feingold deals with campaign finance, not lobbyist reform.

[ Parent ]
Cynicism will win out (4.00 / 1)
First, I must say, is anyone really surprised: He's a politician from Chicago!

I'm convinced Obama will win in Iowa precisely because his pattern of cynicism has worked.  He hardly, if ever, suffers any consequences.

*When he blasted Edwards on the 527s most of the public hardly realized that it was illegal for Edwards to coordinate with any 527 and that Obama himself benefited from 527s and encouraged their use in the general election.  When  Krugman tried to educate the public, he got tons of heat from Obama supporters.  When the "attack" ads came out and were, in fact, not anti-Obama just pro-Edwards, it hardly made a ripple.

*When Obama personally attacked Hillary using the Novak lies, hardly anyone in the press or the public cared to realize how outrageous it was.  When her campaign immediately denounced Novak and insisted they had no clue as to what the Prince of Darkness was blabbering about, Obama again personally attacked Clinton as having refused to clarify whether she knows anything about it.  He never apologized; instead, he blamed Clinton for having not been straightforward from the start.  Unbelievable.

*The Axelrod smear: implying Hillary was partly to blame for the Bhutto assassination was not only outrageous, but hypocritical and wrong.  First, Obama has the same voting record and policies on Iraq as Hillary does.  Second, it was, at best, immature to blame al-Qaeda or "terrorists" for the attack considering the political history of Pakistan.  Hardly any press mentioned Obama's earlier statement about violating the sovereignty of Pakistan if Musharraf failed to act against terrorists and deploying soldiers to Pakistan.  A policy that could only destabilize a nuclear powder keg is completely missing from press coverage and public discussion.  If you check out news sites or political blogs, you'll find that overwhelmingly the comments celebrate Axelrod's statement and blast Clinton for politicizing Bhutto's death w/o mention of Obama's Iraq record and policies or his recent Pakistan rhetoric.

These are but a few examples that show me when Obama says something, no matter how ill-informed or utterly outrageous it is, his supporters become all the more entrenched and his public image amongst people as an honest, wise, transformational politician is not affected.


Clarification (0.00 / 0)
It's wrong to SOLELY lay blame for Bhutto's assassination on al-Qaeda or "terrorists."  Basically, the military and intelligence services should not be casually dismissed as a likely perpetrator.

[ Parent ]
Could you give some links (0.00 / 0)
to the news sites praising Axelrod and blasting Clinton? I'm just curious. BTD over at TalkLeft seems to think this is a huge mistake for Obama. (I, personally, have no idea.)

[ Parent ]
Check out CNN and NYT (0.00 / 0)
If I wasn't clear before I should be now: the comments section were praising Axelrod and blasting Clinton.  The press failed to mention Obama's previous Pakistan rhetoric or his voting record and policies on Iraq (in comparison to Clinton).

http://edition.cnn.c...

http://thecaucus.blo...
http://thecaucus.blo...

Also check out MyDD, DailyKos, and TPM, especially the latter two.


[ Parent ]
By your standard (0.00 / 0)
Ron Paul typically gets wonderful press.

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[ Parent ]
Press coverage vs. comments (0.00 / 0)
I should add that in my initial post I mentioned how press coverage fails to include Obama's Pakistan rhetoric, for example, when mentioning the fight between Obama and Clinton over the Bhutto killing.  I used the comments to illustrate how such an omission plays out amongst the public.

So no, according to my logic Paul doesn't get excellent press coverage considering he's hardly mentioned at all in the press while Obama enjoys press attention usually biased in his favor, with the Pakistan example being a blatant case.


[ Parent ]
What I'm saying is (0.00 / 0)
You can't judge how the public receives press coverage based on a comments section. Paul supporters are definitely overrepresented there, for example. In my city, which is overwhelmingly Democratic and generally very liberal, the local newspaper's comment section is filled with people who would fit in quite well at Free Republic. The vast majority of the commenters there supported Bush in 2004, while the city itself went 75% for Kerry (down to 60% if you include the entire metro area.)

So when you see comments at CNN that "prove" Obama is getting the better end of the story, it just as likely means that some Obama supporters have spread that link and encouraged fellow supporters to swarm it with supportive comments.

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[ Parent ]
Hint. (0.00 / 0)
Is anyone talking about it in the news (besides us, in the blogosphere) today?  I haven't heard a thing.

[ Parent ]
smoke filled room (0.00 / 0)
Did all the bloggers get together in a smoke-filled-back-room and make a pact to stay non-partial? 

"I can't make up my mind...I am leaning this way, no actually I am leaning that way..." is getting seriously boring and unbelievable coming from some of the most partisan people I know.


What's so crazy about (0.00 / 0)
"I don't really like any of these guys, and it's hard for me to figure out which one I like the least"

[ Parent ]
its not very believable (0.00 / 0)
to me. They are smart opinionated political experts. I realize that it is in their professional interest to stay neutral. Which is fine, but its been this coy game from so many here and there. Its tiresome. It is not believable.

[ Parent ]
What's tiresome? (0.00 / 0)
all of the mainstream candidates are awful.  That is tiresome, not the fact that a few bloggers refuse to endorse.  Edwards seems the least bad right now, but that is something that always has kind of been up in the air. 

[ Parent ]
This is going to sound funny but.. (0.00 / 0)
despite my aversion to many of the candidates - when I take a giant step back and enter into a "bigger picture", I still believe we have much, much, much better candidates that the Republicans.  With that said, yeah, I could fashion a, maybe not perfect candidate, but one I'd prefer to all who are currently running.  Who couldn't? 

[ Parent ]
I'm sticking with Obama (4.00 / 3)
And this will sound cynical.
Although I agree Edwards may be better on many issues. A vote for Edwards means a win for Clinton. I say keep Hillary in the senate, she will do the least damage there.
A Hillary presidency will be BigDog multipied. The damage to progressive ideas and the Democratic Party will take a generation to get over with her as  president. As the BigDog years have been rehashed on the progressive blogs lately, it has become clearer the real damage that was done during his presidency. I wish everyone would take a step back and see the real opportunity we have right now with the fundies in dissaray. The DLC although crippled is still alive and will be regenerated if Hillary wins, they are a nasty vindictive bunch, and they are waiting to lash out if she wins. As tinfoil-hat as that sounds, they have done it before, they are doing it behind the scenes now, look out when Hillary gives-em the go-ahead!

I've got perhaps an even more cynical reason for backing Obama (4.00 / 2)
I think that Obama is probably the candidate capable of accomplishing the most because I suspect he will be the best at managing the media and getting them to accept the narrative that he wants to push.  A more progressive Democrat would be fighting a multi-front war against the conservative wing of the party, Republicans, and the media and in the end will accomplish less.  Obama, I think, can manage the media, and can tie up opponents to his agenda because his surrogates and supporters can threaten to play the race card, among other potential lines of attack.  I think that it was the whole Krugman affair that crystallized this notion in my mind and brought me closer to Obama.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

[ Parent ]
Seriously? (0.00 / 0)
You think Obama can outsmart the corporate press better than Bill Clinton?  I don't think the race card will work past his first year, if at all.  And even his rabid supporters will be disappointed once they realize he's not the "change" they thought he would be (Remember how quickly we got fed up with Pelosi and Reid).  Also: Obama has shown he can fight nasty, but he fights hardest against progressives (or fellow Democrats).  I don't see a pattern where he has been a liberal/progressive champion, especially when the chips were down.

Edwards is still our best bet.  The difficult part will be getting be the nomination.  If he can pull that off, we'll be in much better position with him against the GOP than any other candidate.  I know the knives will be out for him, but the only way a candidate can avoid confrontation is to cower to the right wing.


[ Parent ]
Edwards (4.00 / 1)
has the public financing albatross around his neck, meaning he'll get massively outspent all the way through August. They could define him negatively before the real campaign even began. McCain winning (which does seem increasingly likely) is the only scenario without this risk, but then it's throwing away the opportunity to do the massive outspending ourselves. (And it's not so clear that McCain has accepted or will accept matching funds, either: http://marcambinder.... )

Clinton is old and polarizing, and Obama is young and inexperienced. None of the candidates are without their perceived weaknesses, but I think getting outspent by a factor of several times is a much more tangible and real drawback.


[ Parent ]
Given past campaigns .. (0.00 / 0)
what is your hang up on massively outspending the Republicans ... you don't need outspending .. you need smart spending

[ Parent ]
Meh (0.00 / 0)
That's wash, at best. Edwards also matches up better against Republicans head-to-head. Besides, name one ad that made a difference prior to the Republican convention. (Hint: it wasn't funded by either campaign, and the buy was comparatively small.)

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[ Parent ]
Beating the GOP Is the Easy Part (4.00 / 1)
A chimpanzee dressed up in a suit could probably beat any Republican in a post-Bush presidential election (although I'm not quite sure that Dennis Kucinich could).

Fighting within the party is the hard part.  Pelosi was severely weakened by her failure to get Murtha as her Majority Leader instead of Hoyer.  That the election wasn't even close showed how weak she was and made it easier for non-progressive Democrats to work against her. Pelosi and Reid have practiced the kind of leadership that you might expect from a minority government in a parliamentary system, when entire blocs of the Democratic Party act almost as if they are separate parties with their own agendas within a coalition.

Obama so far hasn't had to deal with very many Republican attacks.  It's very reasonable to assume that he deals with all attackers equally.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


[ Parent ]
If Obama has to play the race card (0.00 / 0)
in order to control the media framing, it's over.  The race card doesn't play in favor of Obama among those on the other side.  Not to mention, if Obama holds the upper hand in framing because of media co-operation, however wishy-washy, that means he must tread lightly on media issues such as a new fairness doctorine, media "consolidation", bandwidth allocation, and net neutrality, or risk losing his entree. What we need as a campaign issue is Glasnost.  The new openness.  Getting the legitimate press, of course excluding the corporate media, on the side of the Democratic nominee is really as easy as promising a refreshing and extensive increase in access.  But that is really a General Election issue, and I think obviously available to any prospective nominee. 

The one thing that has worked most strongly in favor of Obama thus far is that he hasn't played the race card. This makes him look principled and diplomatic, two attributes he will need to cultivate carefully if he becomes president.


[ Parent ]
There is no difference between (4.00 / 1)
a vote for Clinton and a vote for Obama except stylistic packaging. You are still left with the DLC in sheeps clothing.

[ Parent ]
I don't know IF I buy the DLC thing? (0.00 / 0)
I really don't think the DLC is really behind Obama. I may be wrong. How about telling me, Who, from the DLC is overtly backing him? From what I can see he has the DLC machine pissed that he is sucking the air out of Queen Hillary's inevitability.

[ Parent ]
They don't need to be 'behind him' (0.00 / 0)
that's the thing that's often missed. the question is does his ideas mirror theirs. not whether they are all hanging out at the same local club.

[ Parent ]
Sacrifice for the greater (0.00 / 0)
good?  Although I think Obama has merits of his own, I think it is quite noble for you to give up your vote for someone you support (Edwards) in order to vote for the guy who really has a chance at beating Mrs. Clinton.  (I'm actually beginning to feel a little sorry for her at this point.  What's happening to me?)

[ Parent ]
Clinton vs. Obama (4.00 / 1)
How is Obama in terms of voting record, rhetoric, and policy truly better than Clinton?  I'm not joking.  Quick rundown: major policy: her health care, education, and Social Security policies are better; voting record on the war: both are the same (Iraq is his bread and butter); both have strong corporate ties; rhetoric/judgment: his Pakistan remarks were astoundingly foolish.

This idea that Hillary is some non-starter is off.  She beats just about every GOP candidate and she does surprisingly well in red states.  The knives will be out for any Democrat--including Obama.  True, I'd prefer Edwards to Hillary any day, but the fact that Obama has no relevant *leadership* experience on a national level (Iraq; short senate career; senate subcommittee chairmanship), demonstrates a lack of foreign policy understanding and judgment (again: Pakistan!), has hampered his health care and Social Security policies with anti-progressive nonsense (no mandates; "crisis") and has a history of fighting progressives bother me more than Hillary being hated by the right.


[ Parent ]
Damn it, I should've said (0.00 / 0)
What bothers me is that Obama doesn't really have any relevant political leadership experience.  Period.  Bill Clinton didn't have major national experience, but he did have leadership experience as a governor.  Obama was a state senator who did what exactly, as a leader?

[ Parent ]
Obama's rhetoric is being driven by his DLC advisors (4.00 / 2)
Obama has turned me off with is calls for "ending the partisanship" in Washington and working with the Republicans. Just as we (Democrats) are on the cusp of a great blow-out in winning seats in the House and Senate, he's looking to keep the party more like the Republicans. 

I was an early donor to his campaign for the Senate and urged my Chicago-living relatives to vote for him. I can't do the same for his run for the presidency.

Hell, ALL the Democratic candidates may be "lying" to me with their campaign rhetoric but Edwards with his populism and anit-corporate, pro-labor stands ar more to my own beliefs than Hillary's pro-lobbyist, corporatism and Obama bi-partisanship.

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain


In addition (0.00 / 0)
I should also have added that Edwards has farther to go to "turn" against his own campaign stands if he goes native when, and if, he becomes President.

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

Over the Line (4.00 / 1)
Taking an unattributed comment from a lobbyist about having an assistant go on junkets instead of a registered lobbyist and then saying that "Obama believes that assistants, not lobbyists themselves, should have to arrange bribes" is just over the line and hurts your credibility.  If you have to imagine Obama's thoughts & comments, rather than attacking real thoughts & comments, it bodes well for him.

??? (0.00 / 0)
That was not an unattributed comment, it was a quote from a reporter who specializes in ethics.

I'm not really sure what your concern is here.  Obama bragged about his substantial change in DC's atmosphere, which hasn't actually changed.  Or maybe I'm wrong and Obama simply bragged about passing an irrelevant bill.  Still, I think the former is more likely.  Why would you brag about a bill you think is insignificant while calling it the most significant ethics legislation since Watergate?


[ Parent ]
very good post (0.00 / 0)
Somebody should write a >book< analyzing great presidential speeches and the lessons they hold for progressives, today.

This is unfair (4.00 / 3)
I  have watched the increasingly negative tone re: Obama from some liberal bloggers with dismay.  It's a tone I instinctively recoil from; it feels elitist, condescending, totally unwarranted a lot of the time, and unfair. 
I love how only Barack Obama isn't good enough for all of these "creative class" as Chris Bowers calls them, bloggers and Paul Krugman.  Did you know that Obama's been involved with campaign finance reform for over ten years.  Did you know about the transparency bill he worked on in a 45-55 Senate.  The utter whining of you all--"Ooh, Obama's not perfect, he's not a perfect Paul Krugman approved liberal--let's feel special as we roll our eyes about 'Change'".  Yuck!  In the beginning of the race, Ron Brownstein said that Obama was the 'wine track', not the 'beer track'.  Maybe we've all underestimated him--maybe Obama's going to get the 'beer track' vote in Iowa after all.  This sneering crowd here certainly tells me the 'wine track' crowd may not come out for him.
Maybe he'll fall flat on his face in Iowa, but geez, the man isn't perfect and his legislation on lobbying made more than a few senators uncomfortable and angry.  I'm sorry if I sound strident, but I can't stand how Obama seems to be held to a completely different standard than all the other pols.

Who Started It??? (4.00 / 3)
I'm sorry if I sound strident, but I can't stand how Obama seems to be held to a completely different standard than all the other pols.

LITTLE PICTURE:  Matt is criticizing Obama's own claims that he sets a higher standard--a much higher standard--"the toughest lobbying reform since Watergate."  So, it's not Matt setting the higher standard.  It's Obama.  The criticism isn't about Obama's work ethic with respect to ethics reform.  It's about his work product--and outsized bragging.

BIG PICTURE:  It's Obama who--in his best Joe Lieberman imitation--has characterized all of us progressives as lesser than him because we're all full of anger, just like the Republicans, while he floats above us all in his aura of Liebermanesque sanctity.

He is the one who has set himself apart, placed himself on a higher plane. He did that. Not Matt. Not Chris. Not me. Not anyone else in the blogosphere. Barack Obama did that.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
hypocrite (0.00 / 0)
Right, And your chosen hero was once a conservative democrat--a Bush Dog--and yet that is past history. Bygones be bygones...Edwards is our progressive hero--even tho practically every frigging vote he took as Senator was dictated by the moderates and centrists in the Senate.

Its an unbelievable hypocrisy around here. You are more interested in words than actions.


[ Parent ]
"Look over there!" (0.00 / 0)
Shorter version of your post.

[ Parent ]
NO (0.00 / 0)
I just can't believe that all these true blue progressives are willing to give Edwards a pass for his Iraq vote and all the other non-progressive votes he took as a senator.  I accept that all candidates are pols. But the hypocrisy regarding the progressive purity in Edwards camp outweighs Obama tenfold.

[ Parent ]
No one has given him a pass (4.00 / 1)
THe difference between you and and them is that they are looking at ALL the facts rather than just at someone who make pretty speeches sometimes.  2002 was 5  years ago- what has been the trajectory of each of the men in question.  I don't expect any of this to convince you no more than I expect a Christian fundmentalist to stop believing what they believe. The point is to incorporate the last 5 years inot the analysis. When you stop in your time warp in 2002, it makes you confused about what's happened subsequent- give me a list other than this minor topic of this diary in which Obama has shown leadership by fighting for progressive values - ie, on Iraq , he's failed. On what else as an actual leader in the Senate as he suceeded? No excuses- list them.

[ Parent ]
Thank you for that post. (0.00 / 0)
It sums up Mr Rosenberg, and his lashing out at anyone who is a critical thinker!
Sorry Rosenberg, you have your opinions and others have theirs. Use facts and not Rovian rhetoric to debate.
It will better serve the progressive thinking in the long term!

[ Parent ]
um (0.00 / 0)
Use facts and not Rovian rhetoric to debate.

Rove used facts.


[ Parent ]
I want action not words (0.00 / 0)
Show me Clinton or Edwards actions that demonstrate what kind of president s/he will be. Actions demonstrate character.  Act as if you are a progressive and I will believe that you are one. Tell me so and I will wonder if it is true.

[ Parent ]
You want actions, and not words (0.00 / 0)
and yet you support a canidate who is against the war but has  done nothing in the form of leadership while in congress to stop it. sounds more like yo ulike pretty speeches

[ Parent ]
his actions as a human being have been nothing (0.00 / 0)
but consistent.  Through out his life.

[ Parent ]
The quesionaire (0.00 / 0)
that came out a couple of weeks ago proves you wrong just as one example, and there are others. The war being another.

[ Parent ]
This is just another hissy fit (4.00 / 1)
by another Obama supporter who cannot make the case.  You, like Obama, will start attacking those on the left with almost no pretext at all, yet you, like him, want to conciliate the right wing whackos. Not good enough.

[ Parent ]
No Matt, I NEVER said Rove used facts! n/t (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Rovian rhetoric? (0.00 / 0)
Frankly, what the hell are you talking about?  Does Obama not say that he should be held to a higher standard, that his election will usher in a whole new age of politics, where things are done differently, where the fire of partisan rancor will be replaced by the light of his wisdom?

[ Parent ]
Fine: Let's look at your hero, Obama (4.00 / 1)
What's so remarkable about Obama's voting record?  Obama supporters rant about Clinton, but he has voted the same way she has on Iraq and his policies are no better than hers.  When has he ever led on the Iraq issue as a senator?  He is chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on Europe, and yet he has failed to hold a meeting which is odd considering it involves NATO and, thus, Afghanistan.

What about the Mukasey nomination, McClurkin, his co-sponsorship of the Iran Counter-Proliferation Act of 2007 (S. 970), his attack on Krugman, the Axelrod remarks, his inflammatory Pakistan rhetoric this August?  This is from just the past YEAR.

Unbelievable hypocrisy?  You must be joking.

Edwards has shown himself to be a true progressive leader in both rhetoric and in action since, at least, 2003.  Edwards made mistakes in the past, sure enough, especially in 2002.  But like George McGovern who voted for the Gulf of Tonkin resolution before becoming a fierce anti-Vietnam critic, he didn't let his past mistakes get in the way of becoming a vocal opponent of any consequences of those mistakes, namely Iraq (Mind you, Edwards became a legitimately progressive senator during the height of Bush's popularity).  Obama, on the other hand, rarely, if ever, admits a mistake in spite of making some outrageous ones even most recently (see: Pakistan rhetoric and defense of Axelrod).


[ Parent ]
Let me change one thing... (0.00 / 0)
I want to say he became progressive in 2004, a transformation that was noted in another diary began during his senate years and has continued to this day.  Edwards has lead on progressive issues for a while now and his policy platform is the most progressive of any major candidate.  Better than that, his policies work.

All right.  I'm done.


[ Parent ]
I guess from where I stand, (0.00 / 0)
I would deem it fortunate that, in this case, the "creative class" usually loses.

[ Parent ]
Eh? (0.00 / 0)
I love how only Barack Obama isn't good enough for all of these "creative class" as Chris Bowers calls them, bloggers and Paul Krugman.

Hillary Clinton is the only one not good enough for the progressive blogosphere. She is hated by the netroots almost as much as the mainstream media because of her DLC ties.

Didn't you read the diary?

If the primary were held today, I don't know whether I'd vote for Obama or Edwards. -- Matt Stoller

Chris endorses Edwards, Obama second

Banned for posting five straight diaries.


[ Parent ]
You Chose Cooper Union, I Chose Birmingham Jail (4.00 / 4)
But the message is the same: When it's good vs. evil, there is no virtue in finding "common ground."  To the contrary, "common ground" is what perpetuates the evil.

And if we cannot say that what Bush has done--torture, war without end, destruction of our constitutional liberties, undermining the separation of powers--is evil, then what can we say?  "Have a nice day... in Hell"???

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Also, Truman's inaugural address (1949) (4.00 / 1)
where he discussed the importance of a total opposition to a 'false philosophy.' 

Harry was no MLK or Lincoln--but it's another take on this same line of thinking/speaking.

 


[ Parent ]
John Brown from the gallows (4.00 / 4)
John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry was the catalyst that brought on the Civil War. Emerson wrote, "If Brown is hung, the gallows will become as holy as the cross." John Brown was the martyr of the Anti Slavery movement, and the raid was supported by funds collected from Abolitionists -- and this happened after the atrocities of Bloody Kansas. Brown was hung on December 2nd, 1859, and Lincoln's Coopers Union speech was measured part of the rising tide of anger that led to Secession and Civil War.

http://www.wvculture...

Before walking to the scaffold, he noted the inevitability of a national civil war: "I, John Brown, am now quite certain that the crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away but with blood."

The country was soaked with blood, but the fight is unresolved -- and Kumbaya compromise will no more resolve the issue, than ending Reconstruction placated the Southern racists.


[ Parent ]
One of my favorite American quotes. (4.00 / 1)
And one I hope we do not have return to common usage. This is the thing about Obama that makes him either truly stupid or a catspaw for the Reich.

The folks on the other side are calling for the poisoning of Federal judges, the murdering of liberals, the wholesale internment of entire segments of the populace based on their perceived status. Persecution by the government on the basis of religion is also planned. Indeed the AG mess shows this paradigm has been applied. These  calls to reverse the decision made by the Civil War are unending and real.

Obama won't last one news cycle if he is the Dem nominee and I expect the primaries to reflect the voters judgment on this. The idea that America is not riven by racism is fantasy. And Obama is going to use his personal magnetism and charisma to heal that festering rift? He's gonna persuade Jeff Sessions or Mitch McConnell's constituents that it's time for a black President with Muslim influences in his background.

I think not.

If he confronted it head on and used his skills to teach, to persuade , yes to shame the citizenry he'd have an outside chance. As it is he's a guaranteed.....

Loser.

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.


[ Parent ]
I think Edwards (0.00 / 0)
makes you think he'll make those suckers pay because he knows that's how you feel.  You just want revenge and he's the guy who's gonna get it done for you.

However, he's the guy who paved the way for Bush to commit the genocide we've seen. 

If you want to get your head into something real - instead of the war between "good and evil" - your savior had alot to do with your nemisis.


[ Parent ]
and who is still giving him the paycheck to do so? (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
John Edwards (0.00 / 0)
because he gave up his Senate seat.  He could be in there fighting but he isn't.

[ Parent ]
OK, so he's got no legislative accomplishments to speak of. (0.00 / 0)
Doesn't he get some credit for inspiring cultlike devotion from hoardes of people who rationalize his every equivocation and spin rank opportunism into visionary statesmanship? It's too twisted to be considered leadership per se, but it's gotta count for something.

In other words (0.00 / 0)
he inspires trust? I'm not getting that from any of the other major candidates.

[ Parent ]
In the sense that George Bush inspires trust in the 28-Percenters, (0.00 / 0)
yeah.

[ Parent ]
cult member never see themselves (0.00 / 0)
as cult members. they confuse their trust with it being justified. strategically speaking i 've pointed out over and over that obama's approach has failed the party in teh past only to get that obama will do it because he's obama. pure cult of personality analysis. and yet they think they are making a substantive contribution to the conversation.

[ Parent ]
No offense to the Obama partisans, but when you ask (0.00 / 0)
for specific evidence of their candidate's superiority - like you just did and I often do- and they run for the hills, you have to wonder. I think there's a wholesale suspension of skepticism going on here that's dangerous to democracy and just might cause the Dems to lose this sure-thing election.

[ Parent ]
What can I say... except (4.00 / 1)
I told you so.  The more people really listen and pay attention to him, the more they catch on.  Obama is a empty suit - at best.  IMO, he is nothing more than just another charming snake oil salesman - or Elmer Gantry.  The good news is that you and Jerome are seeing the light and helping Kos to see it too.  John Edwards is the progressive.  He is REACHING OUT TO US.  We need to kick in and start supporting the real progressive.  I'd sure like to get even for Ned Lamont, wouldn't you?  You bloggers need to start getting partisan and the show on the road.  We need to focus on and fund raise for the blogosphere's real candidate while we can. 

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