Obama Won Because Of Liberals and Progressives

by: Chris Bowers

Mon Jan 07, 2008 at 15:32


I can't stand the zombie narrative about Obama winning on a wave of post-partisan and post-ideological voters. The data shows the opposite to clearly be the case, with 75% of Obama's Iowa support in coming from self-identified Democrats. Further, not only did Obama also clean up among self-identified liberals, but younger voters are an overwhelmingly liberal group in Iowa:

A well-reported five-point bump in turnout among younger voters helped propel Barack Obama to victory in Iowa, and a look behind the numbers shows just how different this new generation of caucusgoers is from the historically more "reliable" group of over-65 voters.

Last Thursday evening, 22 percent of Democratic caucusgoers were under 30 years old, the same proportion of the electorate made up by those 65 and older, according to the network entrance poll (Democrats, Republicans). (In 2004, the seniors made up 27 percent of all caucusgoers; those aged 17-29, 17 percent; in 2000 those under 30 were just 9 percent of caucusgoers.) And this year, younger voters were worlds apart on ideology, party identification, issues and the election's primary flashpoint: "change."

Politically, Iowa caucusgoers under age 30 were more likely than the senior set to call themselves independents: 26 percent of 17-29 year olds called themselves "independent," more than double the percentage of seniors (12 percent) saying so.

Young caucusgoers are, however, more ideological than their older counterparts. Nearly three-quarters (73 percent) of 17-29 year-olds described themselves as "liberal" (including 29 percent "very liberal"), while a majority of those 65 and up said they are moderate (55 percent). Thirty-seven percent of seniors called themselves liberal.

74% of young caucus goers self-identified as Democrats, and 73% self-identified is liberals. Yeah, that's some post-partisan and post-ideological generation coming through the ranks.

This is actually one of my great frustrations with the Obama campaign and Obama supporters. Even when Obama wins a victory on the back of the liberal, creative class vote, both his campaign and his supporters--most of whom are liberals--repeat the mantra that the victory was some sort of post-partisan and post-ideological wave. Obama's self-identified liberal supporters aren't even willing to claim what exit polls clearly show to be the case: Obama won because of liberals. Among moderates and conservatives in Iowa, Obama led Clinton by only a 31%-30% margin, while among liberals, Obama led 38%-25%. Without liberals, this Obama surge wouldn't be happening.

This brings me to one of my major problem with Obama: if his campaign and his supporters can't even credit liberals and progressives for a victory they quite obviously delivered to him, then what possible credit or influence will liberals and progressives ever receive in an Obama White House? Iowa progressives and liberals just handed the nomination the Barack Obama, and his campaign won't even give them credit. In fact, Obama's progressive supporters seem to, in large measure, have been convinced to not give themselves credit, either. If the campaign won't promote progressivism now, and if it has the ability to convince progressives to shift credit for their victory to a false post-partisan and post-ideological narrative, how can we ever think that Barack Obama will promote progressivism? If you are interested in having an ideological progressive movement, that is a question that should worry you.

Obama won because of liberals and progressives. I guarantee that New Hampshire exit polls will show exactly the same thing. Hopefully, once they do, the liberal and progressive core of Obama's coalition is something people will start to acknowledge.

Chris Bowers :: Obama Won Because Of Liberals and Progressives

Tags: , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
If there's a person who can get self-described conservatives (4.00 / 2)
to vote for a progressive candidate, it's John Edwards.

Join us at the Missouri community blog Show Me Progress!

Who is this Edwards person you speak of? (4.00 / 3)

I haven't seen him on TeeBee...so does he actually exists?

Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.

[ Parent ]
Ah the heady smell of Power! (0.00 / 0)
As Obama's charioteer whips the matched team up the long, long grade to the Apennine and Rome, Mighty Rome! He surveys the hundreds who line the way. My, what a welcome they've laid out for me. Me the unconquerable, the audacious Obama!

Yes, he thinks they've done as the Gods, The Gods! intended by planting my ass on the imperial throne of Rome, Mighty Rome.

Perhaps I'll have the Senate elevate me to Tribune Prime...Yes, that would be suitable. Just then the small, scrawny Legionnaire, whose presence, makes the gilded chariot more than crowded whispers in his ear,

'Remember, all this will pass....'


Peace, Health and Prosperity for Everyone.

Obama IS progressive. (4.00 / 2)
Obama IS progressive. When he is placing himself in the "center" he is moving the "center" to the left. With his uniter rhetoric he is trying to convince the country (at least the portion that is convincable) that his values (very progressive values) are the true values of the majority of Americans. He is doing what we have been wanting to do for a long time: he is "selling" our values to the middle. It is not about specific policy proposals. Tha American public supports most Democratic policies. They just have to believe that it is OK to vote for Democrats. The uniter rhetoric allows them to finally vote their interests (our interests) without losing face.

Someone wrote a diary on Dkos about not bringing a knife to a gunfight. I understand the sentiment. But a lot of us fail to realize that the gunfight IS over. We WON. The new generation is OURS and Obama can bring them out to vote for us.


links? (4.00 / 1)
The media and Clintons are pushing that line but not the Obama camp. Who is saying this?

Who is pushing it again? (0.00 / 0)
I agree with you, aiko. I've noticed the media really pushing this narrative.  However, I haven't seen Obama's or even Clinton's campaign pushing this narrative.

[ Parent ]
Perhaps (0.00 / 0)
Not all progressives are interested in an ideological progressive movement.

Personally, I'd like to see such a movement, but I would also like to see some progressives operate outside of it.  After all, ideologues are sheeple, too.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


Liberal (0.00 / 0)
As I pointed out a few days ago, pundits at MSNBC actually mentioned several times Obama won on the back of liberals (and independents).  What really impressed me was they all used the word liberal without an ounce of sneering disdain.  I'm not sure I've seen that before.

While I'd love to see some rhetoric from Obama pointing out, as I have, that a true liberal should always reach out to others inclusively.  But I'm not sure it is worth the risk.  On the other hand, the Republicans will waist no effort making the point, so better for him to make it first.

BTW: for those who missed it, Ted Lamont and his wife have donated to only two candidates, near as I can tell: Dodd and Obama.  I hope that clears up some fears of those who believe Obama is just another Lieberman.  Ironically, their daughter Emily has donated to Dodd and Edwards.


Chris, it's not about us (4.00 / 1)
You wrote:

This is actually one of my great frustrations with the Obama campaign and Obama supporters. Even when Obama wins a victory on the back of the liberal, creative class vote, both his campaign and his supporters--most of whom are liberals--repeat the mantra that the victory was some sort of post-partisan and post-ideological wave.

I want Obama to throw some red meat our way, or at least give us a dog whistle -- but if his message of post partisan hope brings about a generational realignment, who are we to argue?

To quote Al Davis: Just Win, Baby -- Just Win.


Winning isn't everything (0.00 / 0)
It's about what you do afterwards.

Me | My Work | Future Majority

[ Parent ]
i agree (0.00 / 0)
and we should focus (and work with Obama to focus) on the CHANGES he promised.

For starters, I don't care if getting out of Iraq is called liberal, conservative, libertarian, isolationist, anti-imperialist,  or whatever.

I just want our troops home, and so does America.


[ Parent ]
Liberals and Progessives (0.00 / 0)
Yes, I fully agree that Obama owes his victory to liberals and progressives, and I think that is because the voters of Iowa saw him as the most liberal and progressive candidate. I think they have 20/20 vision on that perception. Various recent diaries on Daily Kos have shown that he gets the highest ratings of all the candidates (including Kucinich) from various liberal and progressive organizations. So my question is: why do so many bloggers insist that he is a centrist. He is not and never has been.

Moderate (0.00 / 0)
Obama isn't a centrist, as the record clearly shows, but he is a moderate.  At least, as I define the terms.  I believe a centrist is someone who takes the position of the average of everyone else's position.  A moderate, though, is more about tone and approach.  A moderate respects the views of his opponents and looks for those points of consensus.  Note that looking for points of consensus does not require actually changing ones opinion.

A moderate may be an incrementalist, though, believing that any change towards the final, correct solution is useful.  But that does not mean that incrementalism is superior per se, and will jump at the ability to pass sweeping changes if the opportunity presents itself.  Moderation also tends to reject "slippery slope" arguments, where the person doesn't actually care about the specific law, but is afraid that any step will open things up for worse problems later on.  (Think of cop killer bullets, third term abortion restrictions, that sort of thing.)

That said, I suspect that Rosenberg will jump in and explain what the real definitions of centrist and moderate are.  If he does, that's fine; I think the distinction still stands.

I just re-read something I wrote 4 years ago when I started my own blog I maintained for a few months (if you read the whole thing, ignore the part about the senate  :-):

There has been much talk since the reelection of Bush of whether the Democratic party should move to the left or right, but I believe this misses the point. We don't need to move to the right, but we need to tolerate the right. We don't need to accept religious fundamentalism, but we need to tolerate it while simultaneously rejecting their intolerance of us. It isn't easy, but I believe it is the correct thing to do politically; I know it is the morally correct thing to do. I'm sure I'll talk much more about this in the future.

At the time, I didn't realize I was talking about Obama.


[ Parent ]
We do not want moderation. We want someone with (4.00 / 2)
balls to fight for the middle class.  The last 28 years have been all about republicans taking no prisoners.  The result of which is cannibal capitalism, the capitulation of key democrats to it and autoworkers forced to work at mcdonalds.

Those liberals and progressives who support him are pretty clueless.  Obama is Hillary-lite.  There will be no difference between an Obama administration and a Clinton administration.

The lesson of the last 28 (actually well over 30) years is that there can be no accommodation.  All accommodating does is hasten the decline of the middle/working classes and poor folks.

This election is not a Rodney King moment.  It is a fight for the future of America and whether my kids will do better than me.

I live in a true blue state--I will have a choice in November


[ Parent ]
But Chris... (0.00 / 0)
If this narrative leads to a sweeping electoral victory for Obama, then isn't it worth it to forgo acknowledgement? The idea that we won't 'get' anything out of an Obama presidency because he doesn't give endless praise to progressives on the campaign trail seems flawed. If we (or anyone else) get what we want from an Obama presidency, it will be because he sails into the WH on a sweeping mandate. Let him build that mandate whatever way he can.

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra

On The Backs of Liberals? (0.00 / 0)
I think you are reading this wrong, as far as Obama goes.  By all indications, he is fairly liberal (depending on your defintions here), if not progressive in the 5 points sense that you outlined a couple of weeks ago. (But which candidate is?)

But as far as "on the backs of", come on - he is BRINGING IN and DELIVERING the participation of young liberals with his campaign, and his hope message. 

Just look at the outcomes and extra participation in Iowa.  That is not due solely to him, but he is a big factor in it.

And that looks to continue to be the case going forward. 

If Obama is instrumental in creating a larger tent of future liberals, then he isn't doing anything "on the back of liberals", his is instrumental in creating the coalition.


The Biggest Reason (0.00 / 0)
By far the biggest reason that Obama was able to win Iowa is because the media told America everyday that John Edwards didn't have a chance.

Imagine how that race would have turned out if every story about Obama and Clinton had included all three leading contenders.


Edwards (4.00 / 1)
The media did not say Edwards had no chance.  The MSM did worse: they ignored him for the most part except for horse race comments (dismissive) on poll results.

[ Parent ]
One more thing (4.00 / 1)
He is smart in another way - his fusion message, as a black candidate, is I believe genuine to him, and also very necessary for him to win in the general election. 

Ideological Mish-Mash (4.00 / 1)
I have listened as carefully as I could to all of the candidates in both major political parties.

Ideologically, the candidates and their debates are a mish-mash when it comes to mixing hard core conservative and liberal principles into their rhetoric and platforms. They have become rather adept at using this ideological mish-mash to confuse undiscerning voters into supporting them.

The reason they do this is that the large majority of voters are fed up with BOTH political parties and candidates as well as their platforms and policies, which they have largely sold out to the corporate interests that finance their campaigns. So the candidates have resorted to using duplicitous rhetoric to dupe voters who are desperately trying to identify the least worst of the candidates using very subjective criteria that comprise a lot of wishful thinking.

I admire Chris Bowers' extraordinary grasp of polling and voting data but do not always agree with the meaning he attaches to them. What is clear is that the voters are in revolt and the candidates are trying to catch up with them in order to appear to be leading them. The effort to read progressive and liberal labels into the unfolding events of this revolt and the ideological mish-mash that it is kicking up is a hazardous endeavor.

That said, I do not think we are in a post-ideological or post-partisan period.  To the contrary. We are in a full blown voter-driven realignment of American politics in which voters are trying to kick out those responsible for the mess we are in and get rid the now obsolete ideological and partisan positions that the political parties have used in the past to divide the country and get their candidates elected.

Obama's Iowa victory and looming New Hampshire victory, in my view, are evidence of this voter revolt and realignment of which he is the beneficiary rather than the cause.

But he is far from defining a comprehensive progressive vision. Possibly he will as he moves towards capturing the Democratic nomination, but by that time he may well find that Bloomberg has entered the race as an Independent to capitalize on voter discontent with the party system of which Obama is a card carrying member.


How smart would it be ... (0.00 / 0)
To claim that all of the liberals are behind you, as a general election strategy?

I know what you're getting at. Your frustration is understnadable.

But I'm sorry ... "Liberals Love Me! - Obama" isn't going to be printed on a campaign bumper sticker anytime soon.


Bingo! (4.00 / 1)
As Scott Lemieux wrote at LG&M, what you want in a candidate is someone who is actually a liberal/progressive, but is PERCEIVED to be independent or moderate by the media (and independents!).  He argued that Clinton is a moderate/centrist who is perceived as liberal, while Obama is exactly the opposite.

I know it's frustrating listening to idiots on the TV blather on with zombie lies, but this here is one that helps us.  Chris Matthews is welcome to believe whatever he wants as long as it keeps him from fluffing McCain 24/7.


[ Parent ]
Obama is liberal on social issues and beholden to (4.00 / 1)
the Richard Rubin's of Wall Street.  We lived through this stuff with Clinton.  The lasting legacy of the Clinton administration (sung to the tune of Where Have All The Flowers Gone)

Where have all the good paying jobs gone?
Long time passing.
Where have all the good paying jobs gone?
They are far, far away....China, India, Viet Nam, Mexico.

I live in a true blue state--I will have a choice in November


[ Parent ]
I go back to demographics (0.00 / 0)
Whenever somebody says that Americans did something as a group because of reasoning or altruism, a red flag goes up for me.  Yes, we can all agree that progressive politics is the best politics, but if, as Chris seems to suggest, that a vast swath of the electorate has seen the light on this, I think that's mistaken.  He's seeing what he wants to see.  Claiming that liberals and progressives deserve some props for delivering for him goes too far.

I think there is a multitude of complex reasons that have fueled Obama's success to this point.  I happen to think the most important one is demographics.

It's just plain a fact that the people turning 65 today were born in 1943 (and therefore conceived in early 1942, just a couple of months after Pearl Harbor).  For the next three years or so, we will see the lowest number, as a percent of the total, of Americans turning 65.  Therefore, as a percent of the total, seniors will make up a smaller portion of the electorate than they will in future years.

Young people will have lots of say in the 2008 and 2010 election cycles because, as a percentage, there will be more of them.  That will change beginning about three years from now.  And young people have always been more liberal.  That's nothing new.  No one owes them any congratulations for being where they have always been ideologically.

I'm sure there are some holes in my argument, as I'm only painting some broad strokes.  But all other things being equal, I think demographics move more people than epiphanies.


[ Parent ]
Post-partisan (4.00 / 4)
is a term that's spreading like lightning.  But does anyone really know what it means or put any stock in it?  These are the same people who are incredibly frustrated with Harry Reid's and Nancy Pelosi's post-partisan bipartisanship, right?  I think the Obama camp is just using it as a pretty word and repeating it because it came out of Obama's mouth.  Some of the same people who are rabidly partisan are talking about post-partisan nonsense.  Really, I think a large part of the so-called progressive movement has temporarily lost its mind.  The latest thing I've been witnessing is a horde of people cackling about how the left blogosphere has been taught a lesson by Obama, and how the left blogosphere is insignificant anyway.  And they're coming to the left blogosphere to discuss it.  Color me... bewildered.

Even if Obama is not a progressive... (0.00 / 0)
While it would be nice to have an acknowledgment of the support receive from the progressive side, don't let that get to you. In the worst case, assume that Obama is not all that progressive: that simply means that we can't take it for granted that progressive positions will be forthcoming, so we'll have to fight for them.  What else is new?

Regardless of who wins the nomination and the presidency, we'll have to continue to fight the progressive fight for the rest of our lives, no kidding. 

To Obama, perhaps we're no more than an interest group (I personally don't think so, but again, just in case). So we'll have to press our case with every tool at our disposal. While it might seem that this would not be necessary under Edwards, this is not so, because once President, Whoever will need the support, encouragement, and pressure and public presence from progressives against the neolithic parts of America just the same.


insanity... (0.00 / 0)
People are going nuts over these here primaries. This mother post is pure insanity, People are hearing what they want to hear, seeing what they want to see.

If the Obama campaign is crediting "independents" for their victory its only because they are trying to appeal to independents in NH. This is smart campaign strategy.

I realize that bloggers want Democrats to run stupid and extremely partisan campaigns but you know sometimes it might be better for progressive interests if they do not. GIVE THE MAN A CHANCE BEFORE YOU START DECLARING HOW HE WONT RESPECT LIBERALS OR PROGRESSIVES AS PRESIDENT. You don't know that Matt and quite frankly you are wrong.

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.


Obama "We are happy warriors for change" (4.00 / 1)
[I know there are some of my worthy opponents who will say, "Well, Obama's right about change but we need the anger and hotter rhetoric and not negotiating . . . you can't compromise with these folks. We can just beat them."

Listen, I understand the source of anger. The insurance companies, the drug companies, they do not want to relinquish their power. Oil companies, they're happy with the status quo. Folks in Washington, the insiders, they don't want the outsiders, of course they're going to resist change.

But when I talk about reaching out to people, it's based on this understanding: that if you know who you are, if you know what you believe, if you know what you care about, if you know who you're fighting for, those are principles that cannot be compromised. And you can afford to reach out across the aisle. . . .

And some folks won't listen and some folks won't want to cooperate . . . but here's the thing. If you start off with an agreeable attitude, then you might be able to pick off some folks, you might be able to recruit the independents into the fold. . . . That's how you get a working majority for change. . . . That's the politics of addition, not the politics of division.

And if you've got a working majority, if the American people are behind you, then you can fear no man. You can walk into a room with a sunny disposition, you can smile and say "Yes sir," "No sir," "Yes maam," and "No maam," and if they don't agree with you, you've got the votes, and you will beat them. And you can do it with a smile on your face. . . . We are happy warriors for change.]


Obama's Smiley Face

Thanks! (4.00 / 1)
Thanks for this, Aaron.  This is what I remember liking about Bill Clinton circa 1992.

The consensus among my coworkers and I is that both parties are seeing the optimists rise to the top.  Every other candidate, for one reason (terr-ists, immigrants) or another (corporations) are trying to convince you that the world is a scary, bad place to be very afraid of, and they will protect you.  Obama, and to some extent Huckabee, aren't saying that.  Even McCain has it a little.  He's not afraid, for example, of immigrants.  These candidates are conceding the scariness but expressing the confidence that we will all sally forth, as you say, like happy warriors.

If there's one thing I can be sure of, it's that optimists win elections.  Think Kennedy in 1960, think Reagan in 1980, think Clinton in 1992. 


[ Parent ]
It has been self evident from at least his 2005 dkos diary (4.00 / 3)
That Obama will give liberals and progressives no credit...

I haven't written this yet....but I have thought it all along....If this is the kind of acknowleldgement that Obama gives the progressive Democratic base DURING A PRIMARY...THEN what can we expect from him a general elelction or in the White house if he makes it there.

I always knew the answer was next to none at all.

I am continaully baffled as to how so many denizens of the progressive blogosphere don't get it and twist themselves into ideological pretzels to make their beliefs fit his talk.

I think I have decided that youth does matter. I have lived through these disappointments.  I have learned to seperate my emotions from my poltical beliefs.  I have had the experience to develop a clinical, jaundiced eye.

I was thrilled when Bill Clinton won.....but I knew he wasn't that liberal.  I remember that the first time I ever asked him a question at a 1992 fundraiser, it was about deregulation....(I still remembered how damaging I thought Carter's deregulation had been) He answered at length....God knows what he said....but I realized much later that it wasn't a progressive answer though at the time I thought so.

I was just so happy to win.  We hadn't won since JFK and I couldn't vote then.  It was so great...to fell enheartened, enboldened and inspired.  But lots of things hapened to make it clear he too was no FDR....Appointment of moderate not liberal judges, no infrastructure rebuild.  Nafta before healthcare....I was disheartened. 

But with Obama it will be much worse. This is not the middle of movement conservative's era, it should be the beginning of a new progressive moment....he may very well short circuit it all away.  Because I agree I think he's mostly talk and next to no action  and unlike both Clinton and Edwards...he will be satisfied by words alone ...with small measures ...success in teaspoons not gallons.  Not enough to make permanent lasting change which will help both the Democratic party and the American people.

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


re: GIVE OBAMA A CHANCE!!! (0.00 / 0)
he does this because he is reaching out to independents. Obama doesn't have to give liberals or progressive credit because he has a very clear record of standing up for liberal and progressive issues. Judge the man by his actions.

Obama is running a GENERAL ELECTION campaign. This is what the blogs don't seem to understand. This is why he is not paying you guys lip service. All I ask is that you cut him some slack and give him a chance and don't cry foul until he actually DOES something that is anti-progressive, like voting against or vetoeing a progressive reform bill, or some type of foreign policy or domestic gaffe.

Until then lets give him the benefit of the doubt that he is a true progressive and that he is just trying to run a successful campaign. He has already proven that he didn't need the endorsement of many bloggers to win the Democratic Primary. He won cause regular, real progressive voters, many who are new to the process, believe in him and came out to support him. Clinton is the corporatist Washington status-quo candidate we should be afraid of, not Obama's general election rhetoric.

I believe if you guys will give him a chance, you will grow to love him. He will be our party's golden boy, our savior, completely impervious to Republican smears. There is nothing they can say about him. The worst they can say is that he is new, which obviously ain't such a bad thing.

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.


[ Parent ]
I already have....Look at his policy positions (4.00 / 4)
He has done stuff already.  The proof is in the pudding.

His health care plan is the least progressive of the top 3 contenders.  Initially his plan didn't even have the absolutely essential public option which is designed to compete with private insurers and cause the private insurance industry to wither away.  Paul Krugman says that when he put his pplan out without the public component, health economists were dismayed.  He didn't even initially get why....but they howled long enough that Obama reluctantly put it in.  It lead Krugman and lots of other econmists to think that he really wasn't all that serious about the issue.

In 1993 Bill Kristol wrote a memo telling Republicans to fight the health care bill tooth and nail. why?  Because implementning real helth care would do for the Democratic party what FDR did for it with Social Security.  We had nearly 40 years of Democratic party supremacy...much of it for the good.

We are now at just such a moment, an inflection point where we could have another progressive era. The crux of that change lies in instituting real, successful health care for all Americans.  Obama's more right wing plan doesn't do that, but what it does do in its language and presentation is validate right wing frames and talking points.  Ex.  "We shouldn't coerce people into buying insurance"  Republican talking point if I ever heard one.  You don't achieve progressive change by using thier ideas and lanaguage.  Now you'll say that he's doing this deliberately to lure them in.  Well you don't create a constituency for progressive change by being deceptive about it or laying its foundation on faulty premises which directly undermine and contradict the entire rationale for that policy.  That's a recipe for undoing it sooner rather than later.

I have given him all the chances and I have more than sufficient evidence.

And what you said at the end is exactly what i said about Bill clinton in 92 and early 93. I remember a SNL skit in Jan 93 making fun of his junk food habit.  I thought if that's the worst they can say well then we'll be golden.  Boy was I wrong.  The media will turn on him pretty fast...

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


[ Parent ]
actually.. (0.00 / 0)
What Obama says is that you CANNOT FORCE people to buy health care. If you include a mandate, some will ignore it. Then what happens? If one of those people who ignored the mandate (or maybe were out of the job) were to be violently ill would you then tell them they get no coverage cause they shoulda listened to your mandate?

Simply including a mandate isn't going to solve the problem. Many other reforms are neccessary. I don't know the ins and outs of each candidates plans specifically but I think most importantly the reform needs to include measures that 1) prohibits health insurance companies from refusing people with pre-existing conditions and 2) takes away their ability to refuse people's claims for any reason other than fraud.

Personally I'd like to see a single-payer system eventually. But I can settle for incremental reform that puts the insurance companies back in line for now.

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.


[ Parent ]
Unfortunately you and Markos just don't get it (0.00 / 0)
Instead of leaving the American people to swing in the breeze, while the Liberals and Conservatives play partisan pattycake Barack Obama is going to give this country back to its people, and remind everyone who is still sovereign in this nation WE THE PEOPLE.

The people of America don't want a president who only has a 51% majority, and constantly does battle with the other side until inevitably handing this country back over to the conservatives, and being unable to get anything done in the process.

This is a real revolution, unlike the phony pseudo conservative revolution where all the American people wound up getting screwed.  By its very nature it cannot be a liberal revolution that marginalizes half of America, and pretends to be progressive while this country continues to inch further towards the the special interests faux right, we don't want a pseudo progressive movement that only holds back the this destructive pseudo conservative tide temporarily.

The change that is coming is about inclusion, and creating an overwhelming consensus that none of the forces that have sought to undermine democracy will be able to stand against.  They will be swept aside by the will of the people, and once again the United States of America will be One Nation united by the common interests we all share, the kind of thing that hasn't happened since World War II and the American Revolution.

I urge you and Markos to rethink your position, prepare yourself to make compromises in order to move this country forward in a direction that the vast majority of Americans will approve of, and will be for the benefit of our nation as a whole.


[ Parent ]
It has been self evident from at least his 2005 dkos diary (4.00 / 1)
That Obama will give liberals and progressives no credit...

I haven't written this yet....but I have thought it all along....If this is the kind of acknowleldgement that Obama gives the progressive Democratic base DURING A PRIMARY...THEN what can we expect from him a general elelction or in the White house if he makes it there.

I always knew the answer was next to none at all.

I am continaully baffled as to how so many denizens of the progressive blogosphere don't get it and twist themselves into ideological pretzels to make their beliefs fit his talk.

I think I have decided that youth does matter. I have lived through these disappointments.  I have learned to seperate my emotions from my poltical beliefs.  I have had the experience to develop a clinical, jaundiced eye.

I was thrilled when Bill Clinton won.....but I knew he wasn't that liberal.  I remember that the first time I ever asked him a question at a 1992 fundraiser, it was about deregulation....(I still remembered how damaging I thought Carter's deregulation had been) He answered at length....God knows what he said....but I realized much later that it wasn't a progressive answer though at the time I thought so.

I was just so happy to win.  We hadn't won since JFK and I couldn't vote then.  It was so great...to fell enheartened, enboldened and inspired.  But lots of things hapened to make it clear he too was no FDR....Appointment of moderate not liberal judges, no infrastructure rebuild.  Nafta before healthcare....I was disheartened. 

But with Obama it will be much worse. This is not the middle of movement conservative's era, it should be the beginning of a new progressive moment....he may very well short circuit it all away.  Because I agree I think he's mostly talk and next to no action  and unlike both Clinton and Edwards...he will be satisfied by words alone ...with small measures ...success in teaspoons not gallons.  Not enough to make permanent lasting change which will help both the Democratic party and the American people.

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


that is what we want (0.00 / 0)
most of whom are liberals--repeat the mantra that the victory was some sort of post-partisan and post-ideological wave

This is what liberals want. 

Be frustrated all you want, but how are you in a position to tell us what we should want?


Damn Liberals! (0.00 / 0)
Those liberals are just a bunch of touchy-feely do-gooders!  They don't know how the REAL WORLD works!

Kumbaya, my ass!

(What was that about Republican talking points, again?)


[ Parent ]
Could someone please post a list of all the Republicans who are (4.00 / 1)
eagerly waiting to "negotiate" with Obama??

I may have missed it......not.


Incrementalism in this case will destroy the path to single payer (4.00 / 3)
the lack of universality fatally compromises the plans ability to compete effectively against private insurers. Incrementalism stops even better refrom.  It either looks like its enough or it actually is so insufficient that it eats itself.

Dictionary defintion

Coerce mean force therefore not coerce is the same as not force


"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


Donate to Open Left








Friends of the Earth thanks the OpenLeft community for the ideas you generate and your contributions to the progressive movement.

As an anti-spam measure, there is a 24-hour waiting period after registering before new users can comment.
blog advertising is good for you
blog advertising is good for you
SEARCH

   

Advanced Search