Older Young People Are Partisan, Younger Young People Are Not

by: Matt Stoller

Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 18:27


Age Split in NH Primary

The chart above on exit polls for the New Hampshire primary suggests something really weird.  There is a stark split between older young voters and younger young voters. 

Here's what I mean.  18-24 year olds went for Obama by 38 points, while 25-29 year olds went for Clinton by 2 points.  That's a 40 point difference within what is arguably the same generation.  And oddly enough, Edwards outperformed among 25-29 year olds, and underperformed dramatically among 18-24 year olds.  It seems like Edwards and Clinton, with their partisan messaging, did really well among 25-29 year olds, whereas Obama cleaned up among the youngest set.

Now, generational politics is a weird subject I don't understand very well, but you have to assume that age brackets that bunch up with each other would share similar cultural assumptions.  It appears though that 25-29 year olds think very differently about politics than 18-24 year olds.  Let's call the younger group A and the older group B.

If you are a member of A, the earliest you could vote would be in 2002, though that election cycle was a horrific one for youth turnout, so in all likelihood the first ballot you cast was for John Kerry.  About half of group A couldn't even vote in 2004, though most could vote in 2006.  That means that the group is composed of a lot of first time voters and people who voted for a Democratic change in 2006, and got one, albeit one with largely no follow-through.  People in group A lived much of their political lives as Democrats in an anti-Bush country, as Bush has been disliked strongly since 2005.  For at least half of their political lives, they have been in the majority. A person in group A's experience as a Democratic young person is that everyone in your generation and in other generations agree that Bush sucks and that the war in Iraq is bad. 

Group B, by contrast, is composed of people like me at the older range and people who were 18 on 9/11.  It is in some senses a traumatized group.  I cast my first vote in 1996 for Bill Clinton after the Oklahoma city bombings, saw the impeachment, watched the election stolen in 2000, heard how 9/11 changed everything and then saw it politicized during the 2002 midterms and the war debate, experienced the crushing 2004 election, and then finally voted for a victory in 2006 followed by cynical inaction.  Our experience as young Democrats is that our leaders are impeached by crazy people, we are called traitors for opposing a stupid war the rest of the country supported for way too long, and that we get beaten in elections based on fear.  Only about 25-45% of our lives have been spent in any kind of popular majority, with 55-75% of our time in a hostile minority opinion status. 

In other words, people that are 25-29 are much more cynical than the youngest voters, and probably much more partisan.  We don't think everyone can get along, because the impeachment, 2000, the war debate, and the 2004 election suggest otherwise.  We remember what it's like to be hated and sneered at by powerful people, while the younger younger generation only knows what it's like to have pathetically out of touch leaders who lose elections.

Matt Stoller :: Older Young People Are Partisan, Younger Young People Are Not

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Woo-hoo! Go Gen X! (2.00 / 2)
Yeah, let's hear it for us older younger people!

More seriously, I think that is because partisan affiliation isn't something that is fixed for voters early in their lives. It ususally takes three elections to pin down partisan preference. Younger young voters simply aren't there yet.
 

sure (0.00 / 0)
Reality Bites!

Partisan affiliation doesn't fix until later, but we're talking messaging.


[ Parent ]
I Think It's Actually Simpler (0.00 / 0)
than you explain it.

The simple explanation is that at 25+ you are better able to process more information in general and more complex information.

Let's face it at some point between adolescence and young adulthood there is an awakening into adulthood. You have reached a point where you are out of school and working and have left the nest an on on your own. Mom and dad can no longer put you on their health insurance or auto insurance and you have to be concerned with those things in the moment along with starting to build you credit rating etc.

25 seems to be the age that most young people cross over. So for me the numbers are not surprising. People at 25 are starting to understand that experience counts for something and that many things are complex. And if they are really politically astute they know that in four years they will be almost 30 and in 8 years they will be 33 freaking years old. They realize that their voting decisions today affect them and their future wife and children and that they can't afford to take a gamble. They have started to learn to separate emotion from sensibility and reason.

Yes their may be other arguable theories of the separation of the vote at 25+ but the main reason is the transition that happens a 25. How many here went though their teens and early 20's and one day woke up and in a quiet moment said to yourself - Holy shit, I'm 25!!


[ Parent ]
Adulthood (0.00 / 0)
That is probably the best explanation.  I hit all the points of responsibility other than children, but I wouldn't be surprised if having children made me significantly more risk averse

Though the rest about sensibility and such is wrong of course.  Risk is necessary for success.


[ Parent ]
Maturation is definitely the answer .... (4.00 / 1)
18 - 24 is still young, impressionable, naive, and subject to peer pressure (frat houses and keggers).  The only reason 18 yos ever got the vote was because of Viet Nam and the draft

25-29 is the culmination of the "up side" of youth, and the transition period into full blown adulthood.  (The "s/he isn't a kid anymore" stage.)

30 - 39 is prime time and smarter. The body is still young, and one finally has lived long enough to have a history and retrospect. 

40-49, is a slower body accompanied by flashes of incredulousness at being middle aged. You would love to know what you know now and still be able to say, holy shit, I'm only 25!!

50-60, is total shock and the hope that the new 50/60 is really the old 40/50.

60-70, OMG!  My knees are shot. I'm probably going to die any minute, and I'll never get to retire, collect a dime of my social security, or take that trip. :-)

70-80, I'll let you know when I get there.


[ Parent ]
Simply put - the older you are, the smarter you get. (0.00 / 0)
At least one better hope. 

[ Parent ]
The more experienced you get (0.00 / 0)
You get more experienced which is a slightly different thing.  It helps you deal with things you have dealt with before, but it makes you also more likely to be arrogantly wrong when dealing with stuff outside of that experience.

Ex a tramautic childhood experience can be a negative because once you are an adult you are no longer in a situation where the experiences you developed in childhood matter.


[ Parent ]
Experience teaches; (0.00 / 0)
Experience, like skills, is transferrable.  What a child takes from an experience is not at all what the child turned adult makes of it.  It still matters, but not in the same way.  People evolve and build upon experiences.  They do not discard the.

[ Parent ]
Or... (0.00 / 0)
the margin of error on those results was 8%. You could be reading too much into them.

no (0.00 / 0)
A 40 point bump is outside that margin of error.

[ Parent ]
What I mean is (0.00 / 0)
if you look at the 30-39 age group, they went 43-36 for Obama. Now, either something makes the 25-29s more partisan than both the 18-24s and the 30-39s, or that result is within the margin of error. Either way, that's a lot of inferences to draw from so little data.

[ Parent ]
Group A (0.00 / 0)
Being in group A and for Obama I can see where that might have an effect.

One thing to also consider is that group A is truly the first internet generation.  I started messing around on the internet when I was around 13. 

You will find that the internet has a lot of diverse views so the younger generation has possibly also been exposed to a lot of differing political viewpoints whereas group B probably didn't as much. 

And when you realize that those people holding those viewpoints are real people it is harder to demagogue and hate them.  We got to watch our compatriots views evolve over time as they dump libertarianism once they realize how dumb it is.


That's odd (0.00 / 0)
In other words, people that are 25-29 are much more cynical than the youngest voters, and probably much more partisan.

An alternate way of looking at this is that the 25-29 are less cynical than the youngest voters, and thus more likely to do something silly like place trust in the institution of a political party.

Maybe just not everyone views "partisanship" the same way you do? I realize that openleft is big on the idea that the Democratic party, in a practical sense if no other, must be the vehicle by which the progressive movement gets work done; but while the case for this idea is strong, this is not a universally shared idea.

Another possible perspective on "partisanship" is that the Democratic Party doesn't really do much to promote progressivism. It's been controlled by the Harry Reids for too long, and it's controlled by the Harry Reids still. The Democratic Party can be used as a tool for progressive ends, but whatever we'd like it to be it's not a fundamentally progressive institution. From this perspective, partisanship is not progressivism. It's just partisanship. It benefits the Party, it benefits the traditional Democratic goals and mindset. It doesn't benefit us.

Meanwhile, gauging "partisanship" based on voting for Obama vs Clinton is vaguely ridiculous. I might I know you and Chris are obsessing over this "partisanship" thing, above and beyond absolutely anything else one could possibly say about Obama. I know a few other bloggers, left and right, are as well. This is not something everyone is even paying attention to! It is one, but not the most central, component of Obama's message. One could just as well make the argument that the numbers mean the barely-older group wants to return to the past, that they have more positive memories of the Clinton era and are happy with returning to it while the slightly-younger group moves forward.

You really think that fifteen-point swing for Clinton at the 25-year-old border,

Half the story (4.00 / 3)
Matt,

I think you've got half the story here (and I actually talked about this in my book - how 25 - 29 year olds are shaped more by the 2000 election as the first in a series of formative events, vs. 9/11 or Katrina for younger voters)

The second half is the make-up of those voters over 25.  I was  talking to John Della Volpe of the Harvard Institute of Politics, who was doing exit polling in New Hampshire yesterday and he suggested two things:

1.  College graduates (Obama's base) tend to leave the state to go to Boston or other major metropolitan areas, leaving the 25 - 29 year old demographic in NH dominated by non-college young people, a group with which Hillary has always done well this entire cycle.

2.  Hillary spoke to actual issues (economic concerns, etc.) while she was in the state, Obama talked about Hope.  That issue discussion actually convinced the 25 - 29 year old block that is starting families and trying to buy a house, etc., particularly in the closing week of the campaign.  That probably made a difference for folks on the fence.

You're right about partisanship and the root of the politics of 18 - 24 vs. 25 - 29 year olds, but I think this probably played a factor as well.

Also, href="http://www.iop.harvard.edu/newsroom_release_primary_08.html">the IOP exit poll actually gives Obama the slimmest of victories among 25 - 29 year olds, and private polling from Dewey Square I saw last night said the same thing.  Considering margins of error, Obama and Clinton basically tied among 25 - 29 year olds.

Youth To Power: How Today's Young Voters Are Building Tomorrow's Progressive Majority


I lose at your "internet" (0.00 / 0)
I made a post above, but I messed up the HTML and half the post disappeared when I went from preview to post. Trying to post this comment as a reply to the ABOVE comment results in some bizarre error about postComment.do not being found? Trying again...:

You really think that fifteen-point swing for Clinton at the 25-year-old border, which was not present in Iowa, was primarily about Obama's choice of campaign rhetoric on the partisanship subject?

We remember what it's like to be hated and sneered at by powerful people, while the younger younger generation only knows what it's like to have pathetically out of touch leaders who lose elections.

You're describing here people who are two, four, or possibly zero years younger than the other group. I don't think this could be any more arrogant and elitist if you tried. Seriously, only liberals over 24 know what it's like to be hated and sneered at by powerful people? Really? That's where the difference comes from? Do you realize how this sounds?

Only about 25-45% of our lives have been spent in any kind of popular majority, with 55-75% of our time in a hostile minority opinion status.

Again, shouldn't the younger group be MORE cynical by this logic, since this group's ENTIRE politically aware period has been marked by trauma, hostile minority, and sneering, whereas the older group at least had that 25% block where some things were sort of okay almost? I have absolutely no idea if that's true, but as long as we're just making stuff up it makes as much sense as anything.


I think the question is more (0.00 / 0)
why (assuming your correct in your analysis of partisanship) 25-29 year olds went to Hillary? Or, at least, why is Hillary perceived to be more of a partisan Democrat than Obama or Edwards? I ask this as someone who is a 20 year old part of Group A, but developed a very early political consciousness, prompted largely by the conservatism of the town in which I grew up, and vaguely remember the Clinton impeachment, but moreso 2000, where I was just glued to the TV and completely devastated. After 9/11 and with the 2002 elections, living in one of the hardest hit areas of New Jersey, the kind of liberalism I espoused was openly denigrated by many.

  \I think Obama in a way can be dismissed by partisans due to his decidedly non-fiery rhetoric, but why not Edwards? He's been out there for months being most critical of the GOP establishment.  But also still, why not Obama? As Bowers wrote a few days ago, Obama is the only non-facilitator in this race (at least contrasted with Edwards and Clinton), and as someone who is a partisan Democrat and wants to see a serious progressive transformation of the country (something I think I share with Group B, perhaps), I view Obama as the only viable option; indeed, I not only view HRC as a facilitator, but an initiator, given her positions on the war, Patriot Act, flag burning, etc. Thus, I have thoroughly embraced Obama. 

My question to all is why, if the above is true, HRC (despite - in my perception - her history as an initiator of damaging policies and political prerogatives) is viewed by Group B as the superior partisan to Obama and Edwards (both of whom, to me, have stronger partisan progressive credentials)?


Why Not Edwards? (4.00 / 2)
Why not Edwards?

I think some of Edwards' rhetoric gets lost on young people.  I don't think he does it as much as he used to, but talking about his dad the millworker has to seem very alien to young people.  I cringe whenever I hear it (I'm 29), and I bet it's even worse to an 18 year old.

And superficially, maybe young people don't like preppy-looking Southeners.  I have nothing to back that up, but it somewhat fits in with the millworker thing.  John Edwards just looks and sounds like he belongs in another era sometimes.

And the last thing is about his message about poverty.  I think this is an electoral loser.  I also think it's highly moral for him to be thinking and talking about it, but I just think it's a loser in electoral politics.  Most Americans vastly overestimate where they stand in society.  There are startling statistics about how many people think they are in the top 1% of income earners, and that sort of thing.  The middle class in this country does not realize that their political interests are almost exactly the same as the poor.  So when John Edwards talks too much on poverty, I believe it gets lost on many Americans.  And I bet it gets especially lost on younger young people, who in many ways are in the prime of their lives with maximum earnings potential, many of whom are still being financially provided for by their parents...

And I say all this as a strong Edwards' supporter who spends much time wondering about stuff like this (but moreso his poor showing with labor unions than with young people)


[ Parent ]
I definitely agree (0.00 / 0)
One reason I'm not really with Edwards is that, for lack of better words, I feel like he's just incredibly 20th century, if not trying to emulate William Jennings Bryan or something.  I like him, and he's always been my second choice, but he never found a way to modernize his message.  I don't remember if it was Stoller or Bowers who wrote about the "son of a millworker" thing, but they pointed out that for a lot of the country, mills were dead for a century, after they abandoned locations in the Northeast for places like the Carolinas.  For me, I feel like Edwards is more focused on what's wrong about the past and present rather than what is (potentially) right about the future -- most people under 30 (and probably 40) don't care about mills that closed 20 years ago, they care about re-establishing American prominence in the service and technology sectors, renewable energy, green industry.  Edwards is focused on the jobs that my grandfather and father lost rather than  the jobs I, my peers and our children will need.

[ Parent ]
Jobs of the Future (0.00 / 0)
Good point.  Although I always cringe at the millworker line, I never thought about what Edwards should be talking about instead.  But you're exactly right, he should have been talking about hi-tech jobs of the present and future.  Al Gore does this in the context of creating environmentally-sustainable industries.  That sort of thing definitely would have modernized Edwards' message.


[ Parent ]
different stages of the life-cycle (4.00 / 2)
another big difference is that the younger set are basically college-age or immediately post-college.  I think this naturally gives a boost to candidates with a more idealistic sheen, and there is a bigger crowd effect on campuses that someone like Obama can really capitalize on.

The older group, besides probably having voted for a Clinton before, is in the post-college, meet the real world stage of paying rent and getting married.  Idealism fades and pragmatism grows, which are the basic memes of Obama vs. Clinton.

I wouldn't swear by this analysis, but I think these factors may help explain, especially for voters who don't closely follow politics.


A couple other points about older young people (4.00 / 4)
I'm 26.  We also remember, to a greater degree, the promise of late 1990's.  A world where Bill Clinton left the country highly respected, if not loved, in much of the world.  A country where a falling national debt and budget surpluses left the country in a position to achieve great things. And then, oh so cruelly, we watched all that promise get flushed down the toilet by Dubya and the Republicans just as we entered our adult lives.

Yes (4.00 / 1)
That's what I was going to post: we actually remember what it was like to take for granted that our government would be a competent and non-extremist.  I didn't appreciate how radical the GOP was during the Clinton years (see: impeachment) until Bush years; now, looking back I can see just how lucky we were during the '90s and ruthless and relentless the GOP was.

I, too, am 26 and from Election 2000 (my first election) to 9/11 to Iraq, I have been absolutely outraged and demoralized in how our democracy has been totally desecrated in ways I could have never imagined possible.  Combine that with being a young adult in the work force who has bills to pay and is seriously concerned about our economy and our future as a country, it's not a shock to see that we're more angry and skeptical (We're not cynical; we just know what it's like to be fooled, throttled, and robbed blind by radical conservatism).


[ Parent ]
Well (0.00 / 0)
There are only 133 voters 25-29 in the poll. Thats like an nine point margin of error. It might just be that Obama's support skews toward young, first time voters and then drops steadily to the 30-39 range.

Are you focused too much on Group A and Group B? (0.00 / 0)
It could be a bit of narcissism to think that your age cohort is the main story. 

Maybe the weirdness is really group C, 30-39 year olds. (Disclaimer: I am in this bracket)  If Group C doesn't break for Obama, then by age you would see a trend of increased voting for Hillary Clinton and decreased voting for Barack Obama with age.

Perhaps this group C has an anti-Clinton bias by virtue of having been politically aware through both of Bill Clinton's terms.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both


Conservative Gen X (4.00 / 1)
Generation X is the most conservative demographic in this country.  It actually makes sense that Democrats of that age would go for Obama's "post partisanship" over the populist-progressive Edwards and the polarizing Clintons.

Youth To Power: How Today's Young Voters Are Building Tomorrow's Progressive Majority

[ Parent ]
Church Attendance Numbers Also Interisting/Curious (4.00 / 1)
I picked up on the age thing from that CNN poll analysis also, and was pleased to see that my generation (50-64) did better for Edwards than any other generation.  Some of us old burned out movement hippies are still alive and keeping at least a little of the faith. 

The numbers in the CNN poll I thought were most interesting were those having to do with church attendance.  Obama got the most votes both among those who attend church every week and those who never attend church.  I haven't even begun to think about what that means beyond the fact that somebody in the Obama campaign is doing a good job despite all the thoughtless missteps the campaign has made. 

"Ignorance is the most dangerous element in any society." - Emma Goldman


I think there's a simpler explanation (4.00 / 1)
People in the 19-24 range haven't worked long enough, if at all, for Edwards message to really resonate.  It's in your late 20s that you begin to really understand how truly screwed you are by the current economy.

Following your logic (0.00 / 0)
that the resonance of Edwards' message is correlated to the age of those hearing the message, shouldn't he doing significantly better in increasingly older age groups? The data indicates otherwise.  As I said upthread, the Edwards message isn't resonating because so much of what he talks about is derived from a 20th century perception of the economy. Don't get me wrong, I think the economy faces serious problems in the future, but Edwards' message isn't rooted in future solutions but past problems.  I think it's great that he's become so successful as the son of a millworker, but the fact of the matter is that those jobs abandoned the northeast a century ago for the Carolinas, now to abandon them for Mexico and Malaysia. These jobs, and the economy Edwards talks about, are far more 1950 than 2050. That's why his message isn't resonating with much of anyone at the moment.

[ Parent ]
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