Conservatives on culture (4.00 / 2)

This is true, and it extends to music. The 160s counterculture wasn't just anathema to conservatives because of sexual experimentation and drugs, but because the Grateful Dead's sound was completely off to them. Same with Elvis Presley and his hips. I imagine conservatives were the last to embrace Sly and the Family Stone, because they were the first interracial, gender-diverse popular band.

As an aside, I've noticed two other phenomenons specific to vegetarianism. This doesn't apply exclusively to conservatives, but I used to ask my friends to go with me to the Atomic Eggplant, near my undergrad campus in Rochester, NY, explaining that it was an amazing, and cheap, vegetarian restaurants. They would get a scared look on their face, like when you ask someone to go skydiving with you, and decline, explaining that they weren't vegetarians and wouldn't know what to eat there. I then adjusted my pitch to "they don't serve any meat there, is that okay?" to other friends, and found that many would say "oh, no problem, I can just have a burrito or the pastas or soups." It's as if a "vegetarian restaurant" were run by a cult that only allows vegetarians in and glares at you if they suspect you consume meat or fish.

Also, when I decline meat offered to me at a party, explaining I'm a vegetarian, people occasionally smirk at me, asking me if I'm a big animal lover. If I decline meat, explaining that my family has a history of colon cancer, heart disease and blood pressure problems, people adopt an understanding, sympathetic look. It's become popular to adopt healthy diets now and eat right, but not popular enough to become that semi-taboo word, "vegetarian." Interesting.

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by: Adam Bink @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 18:02:21 PM CST

Atomic Eggplant (4.00 / 1)

I feel you! The same way many people assume tofu is something you are forced to eat as a punishment for not eating meat! Could there be a more delicious, multi-purpose food than tofu?

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra

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by: LandStander @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 18:16:52 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I hate that, too! Vegetarians really get the stupidest questions. (4.00 / 1)

There's this string of incredibly boring questions you have to answer over and over.
  People are always asking if I eat chicken! Are there really people out there who call themselves vegetarian and eat chicken? If so, they're forcing the rest of us to answer this dumb question over and over...

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by: sb @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 19:12:16 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Gets even more complicated with fish... (0.00 / 0)

...why can't people just eat what they want to eat?!

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra

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by: LandStander @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 19:42:17 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Yes, there are (0.00 / 0)

I've never gone off meat for any extended period, but I hear that chicken is easier to digest for those that have been off meat for long enough to alter their enzyme levels or whatever it is that makes eating meat again especially difficult to digest.

Seafood too, plenty of nominal vegetarians will eat seafood.

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by: Daniel De Groot @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 21:56:55 PM CST

[ Parent ]

That might be a joke.... (0.00 / 0)

...because factory produced chicken breasts are a bit like tofu (although not nearly as healthy), they have no real flavor on their own, but take on and amplify the flavors with which they are prepared.

I consider them a "meta-food" - not quite meat, but not really a vegetable either.

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

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by: SpitBall @ Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 08:13:42 AM CST

[ Parent ]

This is how conservatives sucessfully frame Liberals as "scary" (0.00 / 0)

While there may be some Cult. Conservatives that hate anyone doing something different, I think the larger appeal of something like Boehner's complaint is that he's implying that Liberals are trying to change the way you eat, what you consume, and what you drive.  In other words, "vote for Republicans or the Nanny State Liberals will take all your toys away".

I think it's very important that we differentiate between making the products that people consume better, healthier, and with a less destructive footprint, and proselytising that people have to stop consuming some of those products (that's why "vegetarian" was scary to Adam's friends, but "they don't serve meat" wasn't). The last Eating Liberally diary, with the picture of the drinking pig, is an example of promoting exclusion rather than expansion of choices.  The implication in the article is that if you don't stop eating the "wrong" foods, you'll be a fat pig.  He says it right at the top:

The answers seem painfully obvious: don't eat so much, and get more exercise. Is that so hard? Sadly, for many of us, the answer is yes, because gluttony and inertia are now the cultural norm in the U.S. Our consumer-driven economy counts on us to not do the math on that Angus Third Pounder or Mocha Frappuccino Venti.

Now, there are times where it will be close to a zero-sum game, and giving rights to some will come at a cost to others, at least in the short term (e.g., Affirmative Action), but there's no need to fight that battle when it's not necessary, because nothing scares people more than thinking something they've come to expect is going to be taken away from them.  That's how you get such convoluted demands from citizens like "tell the government to keep their hands off my Medicare!"

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by: NY Expat @ Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 13:30:16 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Conservatives (4.00 / 1)

They don't like the cultural realm because we win there. Better for them to stick to things like brute force which they understand.

Can it happen here?

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by: janinsanfran @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 18:03:22 PM CST

My how they love a fine whine (0.00 / 0)

Never fear, Republican Congresscritters. There's plenty of crappy, bland, grease-laden vittles in the prisons where many of you are headed. You only need to put up with the gourmet cafeteria purgatory for a short while...rest assured that a grade-zero food plan awaits you in most high-security institutions.

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by: T Maysle @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 18:04:08 PM CST

(Cackles delightedly at T Maysle' s acerbic wit.) (0.00 / 0)

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by: Querent @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 22:25:30 PM CST

[ Parent ]

change (0.00 / 0)

There is a psychological difference between those who are afraid of change and those who crave it. It spills over into other areas of life as well. Psychologist Robert Altemeyer has studied the correlation between authoritarianism and conservatism, another aspect of the same need for unchanging order.

The inability of liberals and conservatives to understand their different psychological outlooks is one of the reasons that they can never get together on things.

Since conservatives are the fearful ones, it would be wise if liberals could find a way to reframe change in terms that are less scary.

Notice the sudden interest in "change" by the pols, perhaps this is one of those rare moments when even conservatives are open to new ideas.

Policies not Politics

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by: robertdfeinman @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 18:11:12 PM CST

Tolerance of difference and ambiguity too (0.00 / 0)

Some people see chocolate and vanilla as two flavors.  Other people feel threatened if other people don't also like the flavor they like--they feel validated when othes share their preferences, unsettled when they don't.  Many conservatives prefer the familiar, don't like change.  That's what conservatism basically is--prefering the status quo.  Same thing with ambiguity--it is deeply unsettling to many people.  The more so, the more authoritarian.

Boehner is also just a creepy whiner--don't forget that. 

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

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by: Mimikatz @ Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 00:42:39 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Wooooooo! (0.00 / 0)

Vegetarians unite! I thought even in the small progressive netroots world I was one of few. Glad to see I'm not the only one.

It's about culture. Just as they hated the new culture that came from the 60's they hate our culture now. It's how they are.

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power

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by: Populista @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 19:10:47 PM CST

great diary chris!!!!!!!!! (4.00 / 1)

don't forget it also extends to art--helms, giuliani at al...

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by: maxnyc @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 19:28:12 PM CST

Populismish (4.00 / 2)

I don't think that Boehner was trying to express his fear of foods of a different tradition.  I think that he was trying to bang the old drum of Democrats not being in touch with Real America(tm).  It's the old conservative populism in action.  I've met wealthy Republicans who are perfectly happy eating strange foods from the world over, so I'm not sure that this is the best example of conservative fear of alien cultures.  Just sayin'.

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by: nanoboy @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 19:39:59 PM CST

real food for real men (4.00 / 3)

Republicanism is institutionalized overcompensation.

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by: dave marley @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 19:50:12 PM CST

Beautiful slogan, dave marley. And so true. (0.00 / 0)

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by: Querent @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 22:27:41 PM CST

[ Parent ]

It's a populist appeal (0.00 / 0)

It's a distaste for people who eat foreign foods, drive foreign cars, watch foreign movies, and wear foreign fashions.  It's a statement against pretentious language, such as when restaurants add a dozen adjectives and jack up the price five dollars.

It's not necessarily about xenophobia, not always at least.  It's sometimes about what feels like disrespect for traditional values such as humility, simplicity, and frugality.  People who drink lattes aren't perceived as bad because they are drinking something with a French name; they're perceived as bad for spending on a fancy version of coffee four times as much as a "normal" person spends on "regular" coffee.  It's the same sort of anti-elitist resentment one might feel toward the conspicuous consumption of a driver zipping along the highway in a Hummer or a six-figure Italian sportscar.

You do a great disservice to humanity by painting all conservatives (and it should be clear I am talking about the masses and not Republican elites) as a bunch of idiot villagers with pitchforks and burning torches ready to form a mob at the slightest difference.

Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both

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by: Anthony de Jesus @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 20:02:26 PM CST

uhm (0.00 / 0)

You do a great disservice to humanity by painting all conservatives (and it should be clear I am talking about the masses and not Republican elites) as a bunch of idiot villagers with pitchforks and burning torches ready to form a mob at the slightest difference.

He does none of this.  Yeah.

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by: Daniel De Groot @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 21:59:45 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Since when is humilty a traditional Repig value? (0.00 / 0)

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by: Querent @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 22:30:12 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Not actual humility (0.00 / 0)

It's not actual humility.  Folks out here in red-state land tend to view the Democrats as elitist and kind of foreign.  Boehner is saying, "I'm one of you, because I eat normal food, like good Americans are supposed to eat."  It's really all there is to it.  It's stupid, and I hope that whoever sets up the culinary choices of Congress just makes sure that it's stuff people want to eat, all else be damned.

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by: nanoboy @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 23:19:58 PM CST

[ Parent ]

How about Freedom Fries? (4.00 / 1)

I wonder if they still offer "Freedom Fries" at lunchtime...

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by: RandyH @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 20:02:34 PM CST

Nope, Walt Jones (0.00 / 0)

is one of us now.

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by: Paddy @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 20:55:50 PM CST

[ Parent ]

not quite yet (0.00 / 0)

he's still a republican.  But I see a party switch as being very possible in the not too distant future.  He's been drifting more to the left.  His father was a Democrat.

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by: Jerry 101 @ Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 09:27:44 AM CST

[ Parent ]

This Is An Easy One (0.00 / 0)

They make a big deal out of the new food because it proves how  normal they are. It gives them an easy way to make a public showing of how adherent they are to their ideal of normalcy.

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by: D'arby Salt @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 20:07:26 PM CST

Typical of Rightwing Authoritarianism (4.00 / 1)

as well as several other traits associated with conservsatism.

Liberals like novelty, for a variety of different reasons, and conservatives don't.  Robert Altemeyer, for example, talks about the culturally insular backgrounds that seem to be associated with high-RWAs.  It's simply too stressful for them.

While I think it's true that insecurity plays some role, I think there's also clearly a biological foundation.  To a certain extent, it's just the case that liberals experience novelty as more positive than conservatives do.  Of course if conservatives were less whiny and narcissistic, they might actually discover that they like some of the foods, music, and other things that they reject in a knee-jerk fashion.

But, then, if they were less whiny and narcissistic, they might not be conservatives any more.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 20:26:42 PM CST

Reminds me (4.00 / 1)

of the most sordid detail of all from the Duke Cunningham story:  his affinity for burnt steak at those expensive steakhouses he was entertained at.

Now that was a crime.

Corruption is wasted on Republicans.  A river of public money, and all they can think to spend it on is ruining steaks.  I wish my work cafeteria served food the likes of what Chris is describing.

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by: Daniel De Groot @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 22:04:15 PM CST

[ Parent ]

It's also just a pose (4.00 / 1)

I'm sure John Boehner ate at least once at Jack Abramoff's restaurant Signatures in DC. Here's a little excerpt from The Weekly Standard:

Frank and I ordered off the menu, while Abramoff waited until the sushi chef came to the table. The chef stood to the side and offered up his recommendations, explaining the varying degrees of freshness of the available fish. Jack listened intently while the chef awkwardly tried to avoid too much eye contact with the boss man. He warmly accepted the sushi chef's suggestion, and as the food arrived, we got down to business.

NASCAR has food just they serve in the House, Boehner is just a stupid ass.

Mario Batali - founder of seven Manhattan restaurants, culinary inventor, star of the Food Network and the Iron Chef America series, subject of Bill Buford's best-selling book, Heat. Mr. Batali had even written a race food cookbook, Mario Tailgates NASCAR Style, that sold 300,000 copies. If NASCAR food was good enough for him, it was good enough for my fancy brother.

Dale Earnhardt's old crew chief Larry McReynolds owns a winery. Boehner looks like he plays about 100 rounds of golf a year and he ain't playing at muni courses. What do you think they serve at country clubs -- pork rinds and sloppy joes?

John McCain

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by: joejoejoe @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 22:16:32 PM CST

Well, the man's name is Boner. Quite appropriate. (0.00 / 0)

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by: Querent @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 22:33:58 PM CST

For conservatives, conformity shows respect (0.00 / 0)

It's not (merely) that Boehner is weak and a whiner. It's that the conservative demands of conformity how they "show respect" to each other. It's the reason that Republicans "fall for" the obviously fake displays of "salt of the earth" habits of their politicians. The constituents know they're phony, but they appreciate them as a way of showing that you respect them by acting like they do. When dealing with a conservative socially or politically, being as insecure as they are, having a preference or way of life that is different than theirs is tantamount to telling that conservative that there is something wrong with how he lives his life, and he takes it as insulting. After all, he believes that if you respected him, you would lead you life like he does.

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by: tyro @ Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 23:41:01 PM CST

Why can't the poor guy just eat what he wants (0.00 / 0)

without everybody smacking him around?

The use of negative stereo-types in "cultural" circles goes both ways.

For every "volvo-driving, wine-drinker" there's a "NASCAR-loving, PBR-slammer".


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

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by: SpitBall @ Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 08:19:15 AM CST

hey now (0.00 / 0)

I hate NASCAR.

I'm a hard core liberal.

And I love me some PBR!!!!!

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by: Jerry 101 @ Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 09:21:09 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I won't hold it against you (0.00 / 0)

"And I love me some PBR!!!!!"

Basically says that trying to relate food preference to political, or "cultural" positions is kind of a silly endeavor.

Most of my immediate family members will routinely vote Democrat  - from the liberal/progressive end, too - and they have no use for meals that are not your basic meat and potatoes, spaghetti, or pizza. 

Yet, last weekend, my wife and I went out to dinner with another couple - vote Republican, but don't really pay attention to politics - and they took us to a very nice Korean Barbeque place.  The republican lady didn't like it, though, because they didn't have very many options that met her strict vegetarian diet. 

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

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by: SpitBall @ Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 10:03:29 AM CST

[ Parent ]

attacks on latte sipping (0.00 / 0)

sushi eating, micro brew drinking liberals are clearly coded messaging for a cultural supremacist attitude.

I know a huckabee supporter who only drinks fancy coffee (though not necessarily latte's - he, like me, have graduated to good coffee, not the swill at starbucks), drinks imported and microbrew beers, and does enjoy some good sushi.

It's a message of they're weird.  There is something wrong with them.  Why don't they drink folgers and budweiser and eat at the sizzler like everybody else. 

I'm think there is a further undercurrent of hating the gay in there, the educated, and the urban. 

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by: Jerry 101 @ Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 09:20:30 AM CST

There are at least three non-conflicting theories (0.00 / 0)

to explain why Boehner said what he said.
1) As Lakoff carefully develops in Moral Politics, there is an incompatibility between the genuine (authoritarian) conservative and the very notion of pluralism.  Such persons have a need for simplicity, a hostility to ambiguity, and a need for non-diversity; the alternative is an unacceptable level of cognitive dissonance.
2) Similarly, in the US, such persons are far likelier to come from, have been raised in, -- and have formed their earliest emotionally-linked food associations in -- narrow, ethnically pure, "white bread" communities.  There is a lot of literature  establishing that early associations of food tastes -- formed in the forebrain ("smell brain"), the most ancient part of the brain, are very powerful.  Note that in the US, political conservatism tends to be more closely associated with homogeneous communities, and liberalism more associated with heterogeneous communities; intolerance survives within communities in which there is little to challenge it, tolerance thrives where many different types of people live in close proximity. (Note that "red" counties tend to be rural, and homogeneous; "blue" districts tend to be more urban and diverse.)
3) Finally, I would posit what I call the "closet-effect", self-styled conservative politicians who (because they perceive that their constituents are intolerant of diversity or difference) make the career choice to portray themselves in public as being entirely within the norm of their constituency.  That, of course, is a trap. They become prisoners of their own pandering, feeling compelled to avoid any show of deviancy from their perceived norm. Where it is a conscious choice, we call it hypocrisy.  (This might tend to explain why there seem to be so many more Rs than Ds getting caught up in "values" scandals.)

Now, whether Boehner is genuinely afraid of nigiri, or just afraid of being caught in public scarfing down sashimi, I couldn't say.

nycounsel

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by: NY Spotlight @ Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 09:24:58 AM CST

As a vegan I deal with the same nonsense. (0.00 / 0)

Tell someone you'll cook them a nice vegan meal, and a look of horror comes over them.

Or, as I do, tell someone you'll cook them a home-made dinner of kalamata olives, roasted red peppers and artichokes and sundried tomatoes marinated in balsamic vinegar, with warm bread and herbed olive oil for dipping, followed by pasta with sauteed mushrooms and onion in red sauce, with garlic roasted potatoes, and roasted asparagus, followed by lemon sorbet, all served with good Italian wines and liquers and espresso, and they'll start salivating right then and there.

And that is just one way to answer the eternal question, "But what do you vegans eat?"

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by: Nick44 @ Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 11:53:14 AM CST

Play-acting (0.00 / 0)

Republicans are just sending out false "good old boy" social messages for this non-story.

I lived in the washington dc area. Washington dc and the surrounding area is one of the us's great restaurant cities.
Wealthy people in dc eat the same kinds of food that wealthy people eat in new york, sf, seattle, etc. The high end fine dinisg establishments in the dc area are equally full of republican and democratic legislators and power brokers. Jack Abramoff's restaurant wasn't a fried chicken joint, you know :-).

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by: aachrisg @ Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 14:47:35 PM CST