Closing Concerns on South Carolina Voters

by: Matt Stoller

Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 11:40


And Georgia10 flags an AP exit poll making the same point I did here.

IMG_0395.JPG

As you watch returns tonight, I want to give you a frame through which to see the contest.  I spent all day canvassing and doing visibility for the Clinton campaign, which annoyed the person I was with because I am certainly not on message ('yes, she's awful on the war' is apparently not a talking point... and I also don't support Hillary, I was just canvassing for her because I wanted to talk to voters in South Carolina and had a bunch of Hillary supporting friends coming down here).  Overall, I again do not feel a sense of intensity here, and there are a few grumblings that the Clinton campaign is not taking the state that seriously.  The Obama campaign has doorhangers, the Clinton one does not, Clinton hasn't been around, etc.  I don't know how widespread this is, but it coheres with the spin the Clinton's are putting out.  They don't need this state, and they know it.

The frame I want to offer is rooted in talking to voters.  The primary questions on their mind seems to be who can win the White House, and who can fix what Bush did to the country.  It is not which Democratic surrogate said what about which person, and race and gender in the negative sense are annoying everyone, unless it's framed as a positive, in which case all sides are proud that a black man and a woman are running.  There is worry about a black man winning the Presidency, and Clinton being polarizing, but it's rooted in electability.  These are Democratic partisans.

Now, I met some great people, and I found a sort of yawing gap with the pundit world.  Periodically I've had conversations with a senior level policy people associated with the Obama world about why liberals aren't breaking for Obama, and they just have a different understanding of the political landscape.  They think it's just obvious that Obama is much more progressive than Clinton, and so progressives should break for him.  What I see going on, and repeatedly try and fail to explain, is that this isn't obvious at all to voters.  The voters I speak to think that Obama and Clinton have the same policy ideas, but that one is fresher and one is more experienced.  Self-identified liberals see both as liberal.

Matt Stoller :: Closing Concerns on South Carolina Voters

Me and BooI met Boo outside of the Mason Preparatory School today, after she voted for Hillary Clinton.  Boo has been a stage writer and actress for 17 years, and was one of many older Southern women from Charleston we met doing visibility and volunteering.  She really likes Barack Obama, and while she thinks he isn't quite ready, she would love to see a Clinton/Obama ticket.  I asked her about her ideology, and she said 'I'm a flaming liberal' in the most adorable Southern accent, the kind that could easily grace either a proper Cotillion or dispatch a dirty joke with the girls.  Again and again, I encountered people like Boo, those who really like both Obama and Clinton.

Clinton Precinct Captains  On the left is Faith, and I didn't catch the woman's name on the right.  But both were Clinton precinct captains in Nevada, and both were incredibly excited about a female President.  Faith really likes Obama, but she dreams about Hillary as President.  She became a precinct captain because she saw a notice at a local library three weeks before the caucus, and was trained by a terrific campaign organizer who is now going back to school.

IMG_0299.JPG  This is Judith Freeman of the New Organizing Institute posing with two construction workers at the Las Vegas caucuses.  Both were Obama supporters, but both really like Hillary.  I spent about a half hour talking to the guy on the left, and he told me about his buddy who couldn't handle being a pipefitter because of his nightmares, nightmares caused by his time in Iraq.  And his buddy wasn't a basketcase, but was really 'level-headed' before he went over there.

So this is just a follow up on my last post on voters liking Democrats.  They tend to like them.  They care about stuff, and it's not the dogwhistle racism that Clinton's surrogates have been putting out or the attacks on Clinton's integrity that Obama has been pushing.  And I don't mean to go all 'pox on both your houses'.  IMG_0396.JPGThat's not the point.  And sure there are voters who claim they will vote Republican rather than for the nominee if it's not their nominee.  The woman on the left, a teacher in Charleston, simply loathes the Clinton's after supporting them in the 1990s.  She's a teacher and keeps a picture of George McGovern in her classroom, which prompts her Republican friends to comment, 'well, we need one Communist in the school'.  And I've met Clinton activists who say they will go for McCain because of his experience, which is in many ways a generational identity fight.

But overall, the trend is more towards people liking and trusting both nominees, and wanting to talk about their problems and fixing what Bush did to the country.


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If She wins.. (0.00 / 0)
And GOD I hope not, then I wonder JUST how much pressure for a Clinton/Obama ticket there is going to be?  It seems A LOT of the rank and file would love to see tis ticket... it is one that would seem to excite the base of the party more than anything.  It makes sense from almost EVERY level... Fundraising, Organization, Message, History, Excitement.  I guess the question is do the two of them REALLY hate each other, OR is the fighting more of a Sibling kind...  of course even the true hatred can dissapate over time; Look at McCain whoring himself out after what Bush said, which was worse than anything the Dems have done so far.

If Hillary wins ... (0.00 / 0)
it better be a Clinton/Obama ticket ... because if "Saint" McCain wins the Rethug primary .. we are gonna have to fight long and hard against all the fluffing McCain will get in the media .. and it is pretty hard to beat all that free pub .. Tweety will have no problem switching his Aqua Velva crush onto McCain

[ Parent ]
don't hold your breath (0.00 / 0)
The first woman to head the ticket is not going to choose a black running mate.

If she becomes the nominee, Hillary will choose an ultra-safe white man: Clark or a governor.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.


[ Parent ]
Part of me agrees with you (0.00 / 0)
on the other hand, not doing the safe thing might be the smart strategy in this case.

Would Obama take the offer if made?  Again, I'm not sure.  I can see arguments for and against.  Against would be real anger from the campaign, not wanting to be Veep with limited role, etc.  On the other hand, even being the first African-American Vice-Presidential candidate would be history-making and almost 20% of our presidents were VPs who succeded on the death of a President.

sTiVo's rule: Just because YOU "wouldn't put it past 'em" doesn't prove that THEY did it.


[ Parent ]
Sounds Like... (0.00 / 0)
...New Hampshire where I spoke with about 250 voters on 4 trips to the state. Seriously, "out there" people generally like all three major candidates.  The most passion I've found, and yes I'm for Obama, is with voters in Washington, DC where we have a primary along with Maryland & Virginia on Feb. 12. 

Someone, I'm sure will take this opportunity to perpetuate the myth that everyone in DC is either a crack dealer or a lobbyist.  The voters I spoke with today in Southeast Washington and last weekend in Ward 8, across the Anacostia River from the DC of K St. and monuments are passionate about wanting thier votes to count for a change (our Congresswoman can't vote in Congress) and they are fired up for Obama.  There are constant references from voters who mention Obama and Dr. King as being part of a continious line of fighters for change.  A lady of about 70 years old this afternoon spoke with conviction about how President Bill Clinton promised to do something about DC voting rights and health care in 1992 and accompolised nothing.  She got right up out of her wheelchair and ended her talk with "Fired Up, Ready to Go." 

People here in Southeast like Bill Clinton, but they don't think he delivered much more than a few seductive notes on his saxophone.  One voter mentioned how welfare reform had negatively impacted her neighbors and hoe Clinton had not helped people at the bottom.  I've never felt such warmth from people anywhere as I did speaking for Obama and passing out flyers for his rally on Monday Jan. 28 at Bender Arena at American University, 10:30 am.

Anyway, I invite Matt to come over to the part of DC sometime where lobbyists are unknown and single moms raise thier kids and take two or more busses every day to work.  Thier voices should matter too. 


sure (0.00 / 0)
Next time you're going email me.

[ Parent ]
Not all crack dealers and lobbyists (0.00 / 0)
some of them are drunk diplomats :)

John McCain opposes the GI Bill.

[ Parent ]
Thanks, Matt (0.00 / 0)
We need to hear from the world of average voters more.  I do think learning how to communicate with actual voters is the biggest challenge facing the Party and candidates today.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

Glad to see the voters getting coverage (0.00 / 0)
I've spent the past year insisting that's who everyone was missing, the MSM and the activist blogosphere. Good on you for  advancing that, Matt. I'm like the Charleston teacher in a way, only I don't loathe the Clintons. They just don't motivate me to go to the effort of recording a ballot anymore.

But another note I'd add: I know some fairly intelligent people who don't pay bigtime attention to the politics except in election years. Some of them remember McCain as that clever wise-cracking guy from the 2000 campaign, completely unaware of his record ofIraq hawkishness or how much he's worn Bush's anus as a headstocking in the past 7 years.

Sometimes it's interesting to see things through non-activist eyes to learn how we can more effectively frame and message. McCain, after all, were he to win, would be older than Reagan was when he rose from the dead as the Republican Messiah, and has half the wit he did in 2000. But he's been so off-the radar in the MSM till recently that most voters - I suspect - are relying on old memories than anything else.


"generational identity fight" (0.00 / 0)
Hmmm that's worth looking into.

Maybe those 'youngsters' are also the one's informing themselves via the internet and blogs, and not via the media?  One can live in hope...

BTW regarding the Obama vs. Clinton domestic agenda, and who is more progressive and so forth...  I'm hoping someone knows or can get hold of this dude:

via US TODAY: Dems' accounting falls short
http://www.usatoday....

...a Bob McIntyre (from the CTJ Citizens for Tax Justice).  Seems to have been around for awhile:

"...Among the three, Obama has been the most upfront in acknowledging that much more must be done to cover spending than to let expiring tax cuts expire, says Bob McIntyre, a liberal economist who has studied the candidates' plans..."

In my mind Paul Krugman's has had the floor long enough shilling for the Clintons -- I want some other leftie analysis 'out-there'///??

Here's some old CTJ stuff on the candidates. Hopefully we'll be able to get some more impartial insight to add to the debate?

What the Presidential Candidates Are Saying about Taxes: Update November 30, 2007
http://www.ctj.org/t...

Re Foreign Policy -- IMHO Obama wins hands down:

The Foreign Policy Agenda of the Democratic Front-Runners: Comparisons on Some Key Issues by Stephen Zunes
http://www.commondre...

The African American and youth vote was interesting in the South Carolina primary today -- I'm wondering if the Jewish vote will be a discussion in the Florida vote?

http://www.miamihera...
h/t: http://www.philipwei...


Well (0.00 / 0)
It should not take Matt Stoller beating the streets of South Carolina for people to understand that most Democrats basically like all our candidates.  Every poll has shown it for ages.  But in the polarized blogosphere, all we hear about is how "nobody likes Hillary" or whatever.

The media narratives about how Clinton has been alienating people with dirty tactics, or how Obama has been alienating people by coming across as the "black candidate," or whatever, are all false, and we should be doing a lot more pushing back on them.  Instead we seem to reinforce them more often than not.


"trend is more towards people liking and trusting both nominees" (0.00 / 0)
Not if this kinda thing continues:

Clinton robocalls hit Edwards
http://www.politico....

Just because she didn't want to come in 2nd

You can blow 'Unity' out the door with these kind of tactics against a fellow Democrat.


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