Moveon Considers Endorsement

by: Matt Stoller

Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 03:27


I alluded to the creative class institutions moving to Obama yesterday, and sure enough, Ari Melber reports on the biggie.

Spurred by John Edwards's withdrawal from the race on Wednesday, MoveOn surveyed a sample of its members to gauge endorsement interest, according to a source with knowledge of the group's operations. Then MoveOn set a deadline of 11 am Thursday for members to back a virtual endorsement vote. If a majority support the idea, virtual balloting will run overnight, open only the group's 3.2 million activists, and an endorsement could be announced by Friday.

MoveOn has never endorsed a candidate for President. Last cycle, it required a 50 percent threshold for its presidential endorsement, and Howard Dean fell 6 points short. But now MoveOn has raised the bar to 66 percent-- a supermajority that will be hard for either candidate to meet. MoveOn members were largely split between Obama, Edwards, Kucinich and Clinton during its three virtual town halls about public policy last year.

Melber notes that Moveon's relationship with DC politicians is strained, and I hear this all the time.  Lobbying groups that work with Moveon are often deeply ambivalent, seeing the brand as both a liability and an asset.  Staffers on the hill don't like getting deluged with phone calls, and politicians have become quite cold since the Petraeus flap.  I went to the Iowa caucuses with Moveon's Adam Green, and randomly, Dick Durbin was at my caucus as an observer, and he was not particularly nice to Adam after he heard he worked at Moveon.  And then of course there's the censure itself.  That the Village in DC hates Moveon is a good thing for the group, since the public hates DC and occasionally politicians have to actually interact with the public.  But it does put the group into an interesting position.

I think it's likely that Moveon members will go for Obama, simply because Hillary Clinton has failed to account for her Iraq vote and has failed to lead on any progressive issue in the Senate.  Obama has a tribal pull on Moveon members, both generationally and culturally, but this could have been offset by an ideological argument from Clinton, one she didn't make.  If Moveon goes for Obama, Clinton will be reaping her own harvest.

That said, it's true that Moveon's support, and frankly, our support of the Democratic leadership is misplaced.  Those people in Congress are not on our side, and it's foolish to believe that the next President, who will come from that failed Democratic insider culture, will be on our side.  So endorsing a candidate like Obama is dangerous, and it's important to endorse carefully based on progressive values in whatever ads and field campaign happens, and to long-term pull power away from the imperial Presidency.  Because frankly, it's unAmerican to have either a Democratic or Republican king, even if the king must face the voters for a few weeks every four years.

Matt Stoller :: Moveon Considers Endorsement

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Obama Ran Out on MoveOn (4.00 / 3)
Let's see if MoveOn remembers which Senator running for President voted against condemning Moveon (Clinton), and who was MIA (Obama).



Obama avoids all true progressive stands (4.00 / 1)
I am a Move-on member from its inception, and I voted yesterday that we not endorse anyone.  I think big endorsements encourage a herd mentality.  But if we are endorsing, I will vote to endorse Clinton - at least she showed up and voted NOT to condemn Move-on.

[ Parent ]
"herd mentality" (0.00 / 0)
Organizing, voting and becoming government. All these contribute to herd mentality too, but they are why we are here.

We are not here to discuss.

we are here to organize to seize power back to the democracy, back to the people.

It is not enough to investigate society, we must change it.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
False (0.00 / 0)
Obama was not "MIA"; he deliberately skipped the vote as a means of demonstrating how much he thought it was bullshit that such a vote would even be occurring, announced his reasons, and returned to the floor for actual important Iraq votes later in the day.

[ Parent ]
Man... (4.00 / 2)
I like Obama just fine, but if you think a vote shouldn't pass, the way you show that is by voting against it. If he doesn't want to validate stupid votes in the Senate by voting on them, he probably shouldn't be senator.

I support John McCain because children are too healthy anyway.

[ Parent ]
There is nothing undemocratic to committing (0.00 / 0)
And there is no loss of the right to criticize later. In fact, if I have used my good name to vouch for a person and they act in a manner that embarrasses me, I am all the more ready to say, "thats not why I gave you my trust!"

These two things are obvious.

I whole-heartedly support endorsements, but I am curious Matt about your idea of not endorsing (or concern about) and wonder if you want to create a sort of "fourth estate" out of the blogistans? Blog'o'landia is the most important reason that we are winning the struggle (or least still in the fight) against the right wing media, right wing beauraucracy, right wing government office holders.

Maybe fourth estate is the wrong word, fourth arm of the democracy? Legislative, judicial, executive and deliberative?
The final check of the checks and balances?

Again please let me emphasize that I consider the inter-tubes to be the most important contribution to democracy since Athens and the polis, but I am not sure that we are ready to formalize, nor, more importantly, that we ignore the power of organizing whenever and whereever we can.

Most particularly organizing to seize control of our democracies military, our democracies right to raise funds, our democracies control of spending, being right and talking about it is all very good, but doesn't "help one child get healthcare, doesn't bring the troops home, doesn't send one brilliant woman to a University she so richly deserves but cannot afford."

Flesh out your assumptions and ideas on where a chattering class fits in a democracy -please.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


How about: (0.00 / 0)
"The Fifth Estate"

[ Parent ]
Staffers on the hill (4.00 / 1)
Staffers on the hill don't like getting deluged with phone calls

Cue the nano-sized violins.

John McCain thinks we haven't spent enough time in Iraq


You know (0.00 / 0)
It's hard out here for a staffer...

I support John McCain because children are too healthy anyway.

[ Parent ]
Hope MoveOn doesn't endorse (0.00 / 0)
And if they poll, I bet that will be the outcome. But I'm pulling that guess out of air.

Matt says: Those people in Congress are not on our side, and it's foolish to believe that the next President, who will come from that failed Democratic insider culture, will be on our side. Exactly. What I want in a President -- someone who will work to dismantle the US empire gracefully and for the benefit of its citizens and the planet -- isn't going to come out of our political process at this time.

Working for what I want is going to be oppositional as far into the future as I can see. That doesn't mean that I don't work to get more Dems than Reps in office, that I don't support candidates that move even slightly in directions I think we need to go -- but I try to keep my eye on the long term project: effective mass organization that will make politicians give us what they'll never offer without a demand.

Negotiating the primary season -- a time of great excitement and some promise -- without too much loss of focus on the big picture is hard. I wonder if Moveon's members can do that. Interesting.

Can it happen here?


Endorsement Goes Both Ways (0.00 / 0)
In the primary election-- it could tip the scale in favor of who is endorsed, particularly because for Obama because of his pull from online support and the younger/ish voter. I think he'll gain more from the endorsement than Clinton.

In the general election-- the Republicons will try to make it an anchor in the same way we will make Iraq and the economy an anchor.

We won the Battle. Now the Real Fight for Change Begins. Join MoveOn.org and fight for progressive change.  


endorsements (0.00 / 0)
vote for whoever wins the nomination in November, but DO NOT ENDORSE BEFORE. Neither deserves our support at this time.

There is no one to endorse (0.00 / 0)
Both candidates moved away from MoveOn.

And I'm bit miffed they were spurred by JRE's suspended campaign to make this move.  No steel ovaries or cajones huh when the others were still in the race, and that goes for Biden, Dodd, Richardson, and Kucinich as well. 



The Prisoner in the Village (0.00 / 0)
I'm really liking the term "Village" for the DC Inner Circle. It reminds me of that orwellian British series "The Prisoner"

The Village is a self-contained society, and appears to be mostly self-sufficient as well, although no farming areas are ever seen, so it appears that food and supplies are shipped in from outside. It is sprawling enough to contain several hundred prisoners, in a comfort level similar to that of a hotel or a resort. The Village has its own daily newspaper, (The Tally-ho), a cinema, a statue garden, a retirement home, a gymnasium, a fully equipped hospital, taxi service, a radio station (like Orwell's telescreens in Nineteen-Eighty-Four, the receivers can never be turned off), a television studio (used mostly for news reports and announcements), a restaurant, a music shop, several other stores, and its own graveyard. In addition, there are extensive recreation facilities. The local economy functions on a credit chit system. The final episode also revealed that the Village conceals a missile or rocket launch facility deep underground.


Dangerous leadership (4.00 / 1)
Her Liebermanesque behavior of late is making me consider Obama for the first time. I'm going to dig into my old bell hooks first and second wave feminism files and write a blog post and email her about how white feminists can be as imperialist if not more imperialist than the men.

Banned for posting five straight diaries.

Yes! (0.00 / 0)
Those people in Congress are not on our side, and it's foolish to believe that the next President, who will come from that failed Democratic insider culture, will be on our side.
Indeed, Obama is definitely strongly entrenched in the Democratic elite, which is evident by the decades he has been a Democratic senator.

Let us also not forget that Obama is conservative and does not share our values.


Matt, (0.00 / 0)
The more of your stuff that I read, the more I appreciate you.  You and Paul articulate my politics better than I ever could. 

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

Endorsement News NOT New ... (0.00 / 0)
----- Original Message -----
From: Adam Ruben, MoveOn.org Political Action
To: XXXX
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 1:33 PM
Subject: Presidential Primaries

Dear MoveOn member, 

Happy New Year, and welcome to 2008-President Bush's last year in office.

It's going to be a big year: we're planning huge campaigns for the White House and Senate, new programs to help even more people get involved in progressive politics, and advocacy campaigns on Iraq, civil liberties, health care, and the climate crisis.

Some folks have asked us if MoveOn will hold a presidential primary endorsement vote this year. Over the past year, we've been asking about 30,000 MoveOn members each week, picked at random, to tell us who you favored in the Democratic presidential primary. It wasn't a binding vote, but it helped us get a sense of your thinking. Here are the results of that survey:

http://pol.moveon.or...

As the graph shows, this is a dynamic process, and members haven't lined up behind any one candidate yet. But with the Iowa caucuses tomorrow, we may see significant shifts as the landscape changes.

So we've significantly increased the number of MoveOn members we're surveying each week, and if any candidate's support goes over 50%, we'll launch a more formal endorsement process with a vote.

I think I would TRUST MoveOn far more if it actually PROMOTED the primary/caucas stages and helped people understand the process and how each 'INDIVIDUAL' MoveOn member could make their own endorsement actually matter.


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