McCain: Talking About NAFTA Will Anger Canada Which Will Hurt Us In Afghanistan, Or Something

by: Chris Bowers

Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 15:37


Or, at least I think that is what he said, as it is really hard to tell:

"One of our greatest assets we have in Afghanistan today, frankly, are our Canadian friends," he said. "It's very controversial in Canada, their commitment and the suffering and the losses they have faced. And we need, we need our Canadian friends and we need their continued support in Afghanistan.

"So what do we do? The two Democrat candidates for president say that they're going to unilaterally, they're going to unilaterally abrogate the North American Free Trade Agreement. Our biggest trading partner, they're going -- who we made a solemn agreement with -- they're gonna unilaterally abrogate that. Now, how do you think the Canadian people are going to react to that -- who we are having now their enormous and invaluable assistance in Afghanistan and we're going to abrogate a free trade agreement?"

"I want to tell you right now I believe in free trade," McCain added.

This is hilariously bad attack from McCain. It is the sort of thing that makes me eager for the general election.

First, he ties every single issue into foreign policy, demonstrating a complete lack of concern for domestic affairs. It reminds me of a Saturday Night Live joke from late 1991. On Weekend Update, Kevin Neelin said something like 'Today, Pat Buchanan unveiled his 'America First' Campaign for the Republican nomination. In response, President Bush unveiled his 'America: When I Have The Time' campaign." NAFTA is somehow about maintaining troops levels in Afghanistan? McCain's one track mind and distaste for domestic affairs strikes me as a huge opening to exploit.

Second, talk about a tin ear on trade. Even talking about reforming NAFTA is somehow bad? While a plurality of Americans think NAFTA has been, on the whole, a good thing, less than a quarter think that it should not be reformed. But hey, if McCain wants to pin himself in an unpopular corner on trade, by all means, go for it.

Third, is McCain seriously raising the threat of pissing off Canada? I'm pretty sure that Canadians have pretty much the exactly same opinion of NAFTA as do Americans, and thus talking about reforming NAFTA won't anger them at all. Also, I know it isn't very progressive to say this, but even if this talk did anger Canada, most Americans probably don't care. The threat of Canada picking up its ball and going home because they don't like the tone of our voice is not going to resonate with many people here.

Fourth, McCain is just wrong on the face of it. He even had to sort of retract, and when he did he gave this garbled response:

"Maybe they're not saying they'd, quote, abrogate. They are saying radically restructure," he said. "The point is not whether I want to renegotiate any terms. The point is whether you want to renegotiate or unilaterally announce that you are going to take certain action whether the Canadians happen to agree with it or not."

Huh? I'd say that this was inaccurate, but I'm not even entirely sure what distinction McCain is drawing here. Democrats are bad for unilaterally announcing that they want to radically restructure the deal, when the right approach is to say that you want to renegotiate? What does that even mean? And how does a group of people unilaterally announce anything?

Wow--it is moments like these that make me pretty happy McCain is the nominee. There are a ton of holes to drive through here, and I guess it is simply a matter of Democrats choosing which hole at which they should aim the truck.  

Chris Bowers :: McCain: Talking About NAFTA Will Anger Canada Which Will Hurt Us In Afghanistan, Or Something

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I'm not sure which is more frightening.... (0.00 / 0)
This line of reasoning from McCain.

OR

Hillary blogging on HuffPo.


Yeah, this is pretty hilarious. -nt- (0.00 / 0)


Shorter McCain: (4.00 / 4)
"If Democrats want to do it, it's bad, whatever it is."

Shorter shorter McCain:

"Democrats bad!"

Shorter short shorter McCain:

[Just scowls]


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

McCain's discipline...or lack thereof (0.00 / 0)
Chris, do weirdly incompetent moments like this make you less concerned about the "Iraq blurring strategy" you've been posting about?  I've had a hard time believing that McCain really wants to pursue any line of argument that relies on blurring the differences between himself and the Dems on Iraq, as opposed to slamming them for wanting to surrender, but some of his recent comments you pointed to really do indicate such a strategy.  On the other hand, is he disciplined enough to stick to that in any coherent way?  I have my doubts.  

Admittedly, Iraq is one of the few things he actually cares about, so he's less likely to blurt out incoherent things on that subject as he is on almost any domestic issue, like here with NAFTA (I guess NAFTA is sort of both a foreign and a domestic issue, but in electoral terms, it's primarily the latter).  But I think it's going to be hard for him to stay on message even on Iraq--that is, when the message is anything but blood/guts/honor/no surrender/etc.  


how can we giuliani mccain? (4.00 / 2)
Aside from the fact that Giuliani is a horrible man whom people like less and less the more they see of him, I think that the real turning point in the national Giuliani narrative was Biden's "noun ... verb ... 9/11" quip.

It made any mention of 9/11 by Giuliani seem ridiculous.  It worked because it was true.

It's definitely not so cut and dried with McCain, since he is nowhere near as ridiculous as Giuliani.  If, however, the trend continues with McCain trying to link everything to foreign policy/"the war on terror," I wonder if there's a juicy soundbite out there to neutralize this as well.  Someone call Biden.

Republicans can't fix our country; they're too busy saddlebacking.


[ Parent ]
Support the war in Afghanistan -- eat Canadian bacon (4.00 / 1)


John McCain doesn't care about Vets.



It's an encouraging sign (4.00 / 1)
that McCain is so very bad at playing the Republican shell game we've gotten used to.

McCain: Talking About NAFTA Will Anger Canada Which Will Hurt Us In Afghanistan, Or Something (4.00 / 4)
As a Canadian ex-pat I can assure you that NAFTA is not very popular in Canada.  It was primarily negotiated by the Conservative party, although the Liberal party had just taken power when the deal was finalized.  There were many reason for the Conservatives going from 169 seats in Parliament to 2 seats in the 1993 election, and discontent over NAFTA was one of them.  If the US wanted to do away with NAFTA I think you would find the American President who orchestrated the move would be a hero in Canada.  Lets face it, the only way NAFTA gets thrown out is if the US is the one doing the throwing.  Neither Canada nor Mexico is powerful enough to piss off the US.  McCain's suggestion that the US needs to worry about pissing off the NAFTA-loving Canadians is moronic on so many levels.  Canadians don't like NAFTA and Americans NEVER have to worried about pissing off Canadians.  

Canadians dislike NAFTA even more than we do (0.00 / 0)
From a 2006 poll:

In the survey, 63 per cent of Canadian respondents-and 53 per cent of American respondents-believe their respective countries were losers as a result of the commerce agreement.

McCain asks rhetorically how the Canadian people will feel about stuffing NAFTA: they'll love it.

McCain mistakes Canadian winger ideologues for the Canadian people.


conflicting results (4.00 / 1)
I looked up some polling myself, and the results don't make a whole lot of sense.  Pluralities or majorities approve of NAFTA generally in all 3 countries, yet also pluralities in all 3 feel their country is a "loser" in the deal.

(Incidentally in 2002, Americans alone of the 3 nations were more likely to say they were winners in NAFTA).

Now I don't know if the questioner was clear, on the meaning of what being a "loser" is - is that a relative measure, that my country gained the least of the 3 from NAFTA, or is it "did we lose in absolute terms" that we would really be better off not being in NAFTA?

As to the disjunct between people's general view on NAFTA and yet thinking their country is a loser in the deal, I think the problem is that "free trade" is an appealing notion that most people like the idea of.  When you get into the specifics of some of NAFTA's results - like corporations suing governments for trying to have environmental regulations, or UPS suing to have Canada Post shut down, then the anti-democratic nature of the specifics turns people off the deal.

I think if one wants to move people against NAFTA, it will require an information campaign about NAFTA's more perverse results.  


[ Parent ]
Slamming Canada (0.00 / 0)
Generally, your blog and information is excellent.  However, comments such as:

I know it isn't very progressive to say this, but even if this talk did anger Canada, most Americans probably don't care. The threat of Canada picking up its ball and going home because they don't like the tone of our voice is not going to resonate with many people here.

I find offensive as a Canadian Permanent Resident.

You might be interested to know that there are many more - percentage-wise - real progressives north of the 49th than south of it.  Which country, the US or Canada, has universal health care?  Which country, the US or Canada, recognizes same sex marriages?  Which country, the US or Canada,  refused to follow your elected leader into a futile and ill-advised war in Iraq?

As you yourself said, it isn't very progressive of you, and you may want to reconsider such statements in the future.  


Um (4.00 / 3)
I didn't say that I didn't care. I just said that most Americans probably don't care.

I could be wrong, but you are not making an argument that I am wrong. Instead, you seem to be shooting the messenger.  


[ Parent ]
I'd narrow it (0.00 / 0)
Most Republicans won't care.  Many Democrats won't care much, but at least progressives would rather be loved than feared, whereas conservative Americans either don't give a shit what the world thinks or would rather be hated because that reinforces their fortress america worldview.  

So the amusing thing about McCain's point here is it is one his own party isn't going to be thrilled with anyway.  Hell I bet lots of Republicans don't like the reminder that America isn't bearing the load in Afghanistan alone.  They'd rather not be in, or need NATO at all.


[ Parent ]
Yeah, this sort of talk won't be unpopular in Canada (0.00 / 0)
And, for the record, I grew up pretty close to the Canadian border. So close,t hat we used to go there on weekends. In fact, my hometown of Syracuse is the AAA team for the Toronto Blue Jays. My family vacationed in Canada on a half dozen occasions, and I have a Canadian uncle.

I like and care about Canada. I also recognize that they are a world power. With a top ten economy, a top ten military, top ten national resources, and as a member of the G7, NAFTA and NATO, Canada is a real force. The US and Canada need to have excellent relations. But I just don't think that most Americans think about Canada much at all.

It is too bad, but renegotiating NAFTA will help put us on a better track.  


[ Parent ]
I get you (0.00 / 0)
and I wasn't peeved at the comment in the post.  

I want labour and environmental standards in every trade deal anyway, and if it takes Obama to do that, fine.  


[ Parent ]
O.T. Rah Rah Canada support for Chris (0.00 / 0)
In addition to Pamela Anderson (Canadians tend to post these kinds of lists when feeling defensive)


Top Ten Canadian Inventions

AM radio
Invented by : Guglielmo Marconi

IMAX projector and system
Invented by : Graeme Ferguson, Roman Kroitor and Robert Kerr

Telephone
Invented by : Alexander Graham Bell

Television
Invented by : Reginald A. Fessenden

Zipper
Invented by : Gideon Sundback

Music Synthesizer
Invented by:Hugh LeCaine

Electron microscope
Invented by : Eli Franklin Burton, Cecil Hall, James Hillier, and Albert Prebus

Trivial Pursuit
Invented by : Chris Haney and Scott Abbott

Basketball
Invented by : James Naismith

Canadarm
Invented by :
Spar Aerospace Ltd

Courtesy of canadians.ca

Look ma!  It's a furrun country!  They gots a funny kinda dot com at the end of their internets addresses!

Republicans can't fix our country; they're too busy saddlebacking.


[ Parent ]
The NAFTA smear and McCain misses the point (0.00 / 0)
The fact that Canada's Ambassador and apparently the Prime Ministers Office would so willingly exaggerate any contact that someone from the Obama campaign might have had with someone at a Canadian consulate is incredible - an example of how Canadian political figures like to exaggerate their influence in American foreign and trade policy!   But the fact is this story originated right from the Prime Ministers Office - from a government that is aligned with conservatives in the United States.  See this blog from more: http://thestar.blogs.com/polit...   And given that the Clinton campaign has tried to make hay of it unfortunately has influenced the political process in the US.  Of course no one from the Clinton campaign has come clean and admitted who from their camp had met with the Canadians.  

On NAFTA...when NAFTA was passed the debate was more divided in Canada than the US.  Conservatives paid a big price for pushing NAFTA through.  The Harper Government today is trying to defend a trade pact that has a bare majority of support among Canadians.  Canadians came to support NAFTA because our exports to the US increased substanially in the 1990s largely because the plunging value of the Canadian dollar vis a vis the US dollar.   Given the current rise of the Canadian dollar and the sagging US economy exports from Canada's manufacturing heartland in Ontario are now slumping.  One can expect support for NAFTA to decline.  Meanwhile, Canada has lost large numbers of jobs to Mexico.  During the NAFTA debate Conservatives in Ottawa ignored calls for improved labour and environmental standards.  Those calls are still out there.  A US call to renegotiate NAFTA will likely be met with at least as much approval as disapproval in Canada.  This does not fit with the Conservative Government's agenda.  Therefore, the smear.  But if the Conservatives are out of office and a Democrat is in the White House I suspect US and Canadian agenda items on NAFTA will largely be in sync.

Now back to McCain.  Any NAFTA link to what Canada does in Afghanistan shows McCain's complete ignorance of Canadian policy.  Once again the man who claims the most experience on foreign policy misses the point on Canada and Afghanistan.  Canadians are tired of seeing so many of their young men and women die in Afghanistan.  They are frustrated that the US cannot do more in Afghanistan because US troops are tied down in Iraq.  Just this week Mullen said the US needed to send 3000 more US trainers to Afghanistan but could not do it because they were so tied down in Iraq.  Mr. McCain, your Iraq policy is what is leading most Canadians to want to get out of Afghanistan.
 


[ Parent ]
Slow down, cowboy/girl (0.00 / 0)
Hey web, relax a little.  I'm Canadian and I don't find Chris's comments offensive in the least; I think he's correct that most Americans don't give a rat's ass about Canada.  A huge percentage are almost completely ignorant about Canada (although to be fair, this same percentage is usually completely ignorant about any other country as well).  As a very small example, I grew up in BC and currently live in New York; I get questions all the time about whether I'm driving home for the long weekend.  (For well-meaning, yet uninformed openleft readers, it's about 3000 miles.  Kind of like asking a New Yorker if they're driving home to Oregon for the long weekend.)  And I won't go into the number of people who, upon finding out I'm Canadian, say, "Canada, EH?" and then nod and grin as if this is the ultimate cross-cultural conversation starter.

... but I digress ... in any event, just because we don't like the fact that a lot of Americans are ignorant of anything Canadian doesn't make it untrue.  Canada is an awesome country with much to be proud of as a progressive, you're right, but middle America doesn't know or care.  I think that's all Chris is saying, and I completely agree with him.

Republicans can't fix our country; they're too busy saddlebacking.


[ Parent ]
time to change (0.00 / 0)
middle America doesn't know or care

What I'm saying is it is time to change that attitude, and comments such as those by Chris don't help in that change.  Yeah, I get his point of view, but that doesn't make it right.


[ Parent ]
"Right" or accurate? (4.00 / 1)
You may not have noticed, but we're struggling here to maintain a reality-based community in the face of Bush's wishful-thinking-based approach. You may wish Americans cared about Canada, but the truth is we really don't give a rat's you-know-what.  That's just reality.

We can talk later about a good time to start some kind of "Canada Matters!" PR campaign. For now, we're trying to win an incredibly important election-- important to Canada, as well as the U.S.

Given that Bush has sent such utter morons as former Mass. governor Paul Celluci to be ambassadors to your country, a striking indication of his utter lack of interest or respect for Canada, you oughta be rooting for Our Side here, whatever it takes to win.

Sorry if it hurts your feelings, but that's just the way it is and pretending it isn't gets us all exactly nowhere.



[ Parent ]
Is it possible McCain simply doesn't understand what "Unilateral" means? (0.00 / 0)
n/t

Will Canada really care aboot this? (0.00 / 0)
Sorry for the joke. . .but it had to be made.  Is it just me or does McCain not move his neck or shoulders, like ever?  

I get the feeling that no one is really paying attention to him -- and that's a bad thing.  The more people pay attention to McCain, the more they don't like him.


Canuck here (0.00 / 0)
As far as I can speak for 30M people, I don't see how most Canadians would link NAFTA to Afghanistan anyway.  The two decisions really get made on very seperate plains.  In fact, that we are in Afghanistan at all is because Canadians do not perceive this mission as part of "America's foreign policy" - a perception which would surely end the mission in short order.  So even if we decide to punish America for actions it takes on trade, leaving Afghanistan would make no sense to a Canadian as a way to do that.  We are in Afghanistan to help the Afghanis, not America.  

Unsurprisingly, our Conservatives use a similar line, for example we were supposed to go help out in Iraq in 2003, because if we didn't, America would punish us on trade, and that the softwood lumber dispute was linked somehow to Bush not liking Chretien.  It was perceived as a big risk to Canada's prosperity by Chretien to refuse to join in the Iraq war.



[ Parent ]
Canada's participation in Afghanistan (0.00 / 0)
Canada's participation in Afghanistan was a trade-off linked to Chrétien's refusal to get sucked up in the Iraqi quagmire. I'm pretty sure the decision making with regards to Iraq was influence by what the French and Germans had on Saddam Hussein.

So the Liberals figured they would send troops in Afghanistan for a two-year stint to show our bona fide and to avoid the wrath of the "moron  in DC.

Bilateral issues such as trade (and borders) were certainly part of the subtext of the decision-making process in Ottawa (these issues always are part of the thinking when they relate to the neighbour), but they were not the factor that clinched it.


[ Parent ]
Sorry Jim (0.00 / 0)
Hey Jim,

Sorry, but here it is, straight from the "Top 10 Myths About Canadians" at canadians.ca


6.  Canadians all say "eh" and "aboot".  
--Sure, some of us do, but Canada is a big country with many different people who speak many different languages with different dialects.

We do, however, tend to dislike NAFTA, FWIW.

Republicans can't fix our country; they're too busy saddlebacking.


[ Parent ]
McCain doesn't (0.00 / 0)
move his neck or shoulders because he can't-- they were broken repeatedly under North Vietnamese torture and he hasn't been able to raise his arms high enough to comb his own hair since then.

This is not a matter for ha-ha snicker-snicker.

I assume you didn't know this, so it wasn't mean-spirited.  It is, however, pretty appallingly ignorant.


[ Parent ]
I'd like to try out a GOP response to this (0.00 / 0)
achem /me clears throat

puts on Rush Limbaugh voice...

Aaaand Mr.McCain said, and I quote, echem... "how do you think the Canadian people are going to react to that?". cough cough...

Well Mr.McCain, echem, and I think I am addresses the whole namby pamby UN loving worry wort party actually, so Mr.McCain and all you other cry babies, let me ask you this... which country is the almightiest economy in the western hemisphere? I though it was the US, but I guess its Canada now, and they are calling the shots. Thank goodness for our generous benefactors to the north.

Now you knnnnnnow these skirt knitters in the McCainybaby party just HATE America and its great prosperity, and the last thing they would like to is see America act in its own interest. Weeeeell Mr.McCain maybe we should just turn over America to the Canadian Parliament? I mean, why bother with the Congress at all? Right?

Let me tell you, this is what they have been after with this NAFTA business from the start, a treaty which over rules the laws of the US and takes money out of the evil US which they have and gives it to good countries like China and Mexico, countries run by dictators. cough I mean, democracies cough  And so now its come to we should ask Canada what they would like us to do when it comes to whats best for the US? I wonder if Mr.McCain is running for the President of the United State or if maybe he's running for the President of Canada.

At least we'll all be playing better hockey soon.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare


McCain-Outsourcing Boeing Jobs (0.00 / 0)
This development is huge. This is central issue of economic nationalism. And economic nationalism is big politics. McCain is largely responsible for Boeing losing the contract on the new replacement line of air tankers for the military. The contract is going to Northrup Grumman who is outsourcing it to Airbus. Beautiful.. in a time of impending economic collapse the American tax payer is being asked to outsource our jobs  and technology to a European conglomerate. This is potentially a huge issue for Democrats and for Obama to take hold of and thrash McCain with. This is bread and butter, this is the flag, the is red, white, and blue.

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