What This Is All About

by: Chris Bowers

Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 14:00


Jerome Armstrong (emphasis in orginal):

Now, I thought the 2003-2006 netroots was all about the 'fighting dems' that invigorated the Democratic Party with a strong sense of partisanship and Howard Dean's "Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party" candidacy.

The "netroots" is not about one thing. Never was, never could be. Lacking in centralized leadership and with millions of participants, there were always going to be competing motives and goals. To even attempt to define it as one single thing is to speak for huge swaths of its participants about which we know little. For my part, I always viewed it as small to medium sized part of a broad social transformation that is reshaping the entire social fabric of the nation. I began participating in it full-time because I viewed it as a particularly strong and useful engine to bring about wide ranging progressive change, the potential for which is embedded in larger demographic trends. The nation is becoming less white and less Christian at a rapid pace. The cost of accessing, publishing, and distributing information is declining rapidly through the Internet and portable devices like cell phones. And the new economic governing class, the creative class, has a decidedly more progressive value set than its predecessors. The netroots and the blogosphere are part of these larger trends, and I want to be involved in them, since they seem to hold an important key to unlocking something I have desired since I was a teenager: sweeping progressive chance in America.

More in the extended entry.

Chris Bowers :: What This Is All About
However, I am also aware that my reasons for participating in the blogosphere, the netroots, the Democratic Party, and the broader progressive movement are probably quite different from the reasons that most people participate. I even conducted a survey of the netroots two years ago that indicated my personal goals, which are largely long-term and ideological, are quite a bit different from the majority of netroots activists, most of whom seem to think (or at least thought) that the necessary change could be quickly accomplished by replacing the disastrous leadership in Washington, D.C..  I think this is one of the reasons why when Matt makes a point about progressives being culled from potential leadership positions, or when I try to make a point about which voting groups Democrats should target, many readers will subsume those points under the Obama vs. Clinton rubric rather than the broader, long-term progressive framework in which they were intended. I don't want to speak for Matt, but I'm pretty sure his political goals are far too expansive to be contained under the Obama vs. Clinton campaign, and he is more concerned about having progressives in leadership positions in D.C. than about who wins the primary. In the same vein, I am far more concerned about building a long-term progressive, governing coalition than about who wins the Democratic nomination in 2008, 2004, 2012, or whenever. The implications those points have to the Obama vs. Clinton campaign as side notes to the more ideologically and movement orientated point. However, many others will have different goals from Matt and I, and those differences will invariably cause others to view our writing on these topics primarily within the context of Obama vs. Clinton, rather than the broader goal of building a long-term progressive governing majority.

Such differences of perspective are both inevitable and not negative. In fact, it is a very good sign that these widely distributed progressive trends have reached such a high point of participation where it is impossible to create a single definition of netroots goals, or a centralized leadership that can execute those goals. The early adopters of the movement are not only no longer in control, but we are not even representative of the movement anymore. No matter what bloggers say or do about the campaign, online activists are now pumping one million dollars a day to Hillary Clinton, and one and a half million dollars a day to Barack Obama. Whatever the movement was intended to be at its inception, it has grown to such a size and mass participation level that the most any campaign or organization can do to "control" at any given movement is provide a convincing enough argument to some of its participants to temporarily join in that effort. Obama right now has the largest share of that energy, but clearly Clinton has a huge amount as well. There are partisan campaigns that can tap the energy, and there are ideological campaigns that can tap that energy. As such, it is accurate to argue that Obama is the progressive movement, or that Clinton is, or that neither of them are. In the end, all of them are using some of the energy of the movement, and all of them have some of energy of the movement pitted against them. And really, that was even the case way back in 2003, when huge numbers of netroots activists drafted Wesley Clark into the campaign with defeating Howard Dean as one of their main goals. There were always conflicting and contradictory perspectives, motives and goals in the netroots, even in its early days. It simply can't be defined as having singular political motives or strategies. This is inevitable in such a widely distributed, decentralized network.

The progressive movement, the netroots, the blogosphere--none of it is about one thing. It never was, and the distribution is only becoming more widespread by the day. There will be some consolidation during the general election campaign, but once that is over the fracturing will continue apace. At the base of these wider demographic trends is a rapid movement toward a far more pluralistic society, both in terms of demographics and in terms of media distribution. Trying to find contradictions in those trends / that movement is shooting fish in a barrel, especially when you don't even bother to notice that the objections you raise were already accepted in the very article you are criticizing. One of the important things to keep in mind while participating in the movement is that not everyone will be doing so for the same reasons, and that apparent double standards and contradictions from an Obama vs. Clinton perspective are nothing of the sort from a broader, long-term movement perspective.

We all have different goals. Mine are not subsumed under Obama vs. Clinton, or about "fighting Dems" creating a more partisan Democartic base. One of those goals is to forge a winning electoral coalition that can support a progressive governing majority. If one candidate in a primary ha a modestly larger amount of that future coalition, from my perspective that is a perfectly logical reason to support that candidate. Deal with it.  


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RE: What This Is All About (0.00 / 0)
We all have different goals. Mine are not subsumed under Obama vs. Clinton, or about "fighting Dems" creating a more partisan Democartic base. One of those goals is to forge a winning electoral coalition that can support a progressive governing majority. If one candidate in a primary ha a modestly larger amount of that future coalition, from my perspective that is a perfectly logical reason to support that candidate. Deal with it.

That is exactly what I have been saying for a while. With so few ideological differences between the two candidates, it is now about finding who can create a larger, stronger, Progressive majority, even if it is unintended. Looking as the SUSA match-up polls, as well as others, it seems rather objective that Obama is the most likely choice with this goal in mind.

Former Edwards Supporter, Obama Supporter since January 30, 2008


I agree pretty wholeheartedly with this post (4.00 / 4)
and of course this is bigger than Clinton/Obama.  But, Clinton/Obama is the biggest thing to happen in the progressive movement recently: close if not equal to the big five.  I'm not sure how I would rank them, but the big events that have been significant for the movement: the 2000 election, 9/11, Iraq, 2004 election, and the 06 takeover of congress.  There is at stake here a fundemental disagreement about what is good for the movement going forward.  I think Clinton and Obama represent different strands of thinking on this.  

I think Clinton probably represents "the fighting dems" for a lot of people at this point--which I find strange, personally.  I certainly bought into Edwards when he claimed this, but as for Clinton, I really don't see how you can look back at their history (Iraq, welfare reform, triangulation, etc.) and think they will be a progressive force, and I certainly don't see how you can support the idea that they will "fight" for progressive goals, other than hope that they will push an only slightly more progressive heathcare agenda than Obama's, but both of which still keep the fundementally degenerate system in place.  Clinton, as we have seen, is happy to fight for her personal ambitions, but I don't see a history of "fighting" for progressive goals.  You can claim Obama might not either, but you would do that on the basis of no where near the sort of certainty you can with Hillary.  

I'm saying that Openleft has tried to stay above the fray for too long and is in danger of allowing Clinton to become the nominee.  And if she does, she, based on her and her husband's history, will not further the objectives you have discussed above, will not "fight" for them, but only for the security of her personal legacy and ambitions.  This is evident in her history, I am the only person who rememebers centrist senate career we all bitched about?  

Obama represents, if not policy orthodoxy, at least a the sort of social change and activism you have in mind.  

I think Clinton/Obama is a defining moment for the netroots, and people who care about the movement need to take sides.  There isn't time to perfect your theory.    

The Politics of Bruno S.


I agree pretty wholeheartedly with your comment (4.00 / 1)
Chris is right that neither candidate is going to answer all of our progressive prayers. As Dean used to say, "The biggest lie that people like me tell to people like you is that if you vote for me, I'll solve all your problems. You have the power!" or something like that. Obama seems to be in sync with that way of thinking. Hillary seems to be the exact opposite: "Vote for me and I'll solve all your problems." Basically, she wants us to vote for her and then shut up and let her take care of everything. That's not the progressive future I'm hoping for.

miasmo.com

[ Parent ]
good post (0.00 / 0)
At least someone still has a little perspective.

The truth about Saxby Chambliss

Interesting assumptions in that article (0.00 / 0)
Despite the usual sniping that Jerome can't seem to help but inject.

I'm also glad he FINALLY is now honest about which candidate he supports, after, what, nearly a year of claiming "he hadn't chosen", and running hit piece after hit piece about candidates he hadn't chosen, such as Obama.

At any rate, back to the post -

Women and Latinos - the assumption that these groups WON'T vote for Obama, but will crossover, despite the clear ideological differences between the democratic and republican positions on how to govern, is a huge stretch, his "anecdotal" evidence aside.

It's funny though, how his electability arguments, seem to ignore the person who has been most elected, if narrowly, up to this point.



Bravo (4.00 / 1)
In the same vein, I am far more concerned about building a long-term progressive, governing coalition than about who wins the Democratic nomination in 2008, 2004, 2012, or whenever. The implications those points have to the Obama vs. Clinton campaign as side notes to the more ideologically and movement orientated point.
This is EXACTLY how I feel. I never was an Edwards guy, I went straight to Obama. This is why. Ideologically, I think Edwards likely was more progressive (at least his verbiage was), but Obama somehow, and perhaps it is by shear luck, has the ability to generate new Democrats and create Chris's "progressive governing coalition". I have no delusions that Obama will lead progressives to the promised land even if he is elected President. Getting stuff through Congress just is too difficult even if his wants did align perfectly with those of "progressives". I think he'll do well, but so would Hillary, or Edwards. Why I like Obama is because twenty years from now I truly believe that the political awareness that Obama is creating will result in the real long-term changes that progressives, including myself, want.  

Netroots a part of the online progressive movement (4.00 / 1)
I think this is an important discussion. I have some thoughts at my place, but wanted to share some here.

I was at the Left Out in the Open panel last week, hosted by The Nation and MoveOn. The panel included Matt Stoller, Ari Melber, Zephyr Teachout, Katrina vanden Heuvel, and Roberto Lovato. It focused primarily on defining the netroots and its capacities for effecting progressive change. What was immediately apparent is that each panelist had a different conception of what the term "netroots" meant. Also brought up were the sometimes overlapping blackroots, brownroots, and feminist blogospheres. The absence of an understanding of the netroots as large, inclusive collection as described by Bowers, lead to some panelists decrying the failures of a smaller, white, Democratic-oriented collection of including other people and issues.

The netroots, as a term, is something of a failure. It is often taken in a circumscribed way that refers to A-list, largely white, largely male, bloggers. But that's a narrow view that makes it easier to attack. To that end, using a vague term with an even more vague definition is problematic.

In my view, again which I think is shared by Bowers, what is generally described as the netroots is really better described as the online progressive movement. In my eyes that would include all bloggers of varying prominence, commenters, diarists, blog readers, advocacy groups like MoveOn, Credo Action, Color of Change, Avaaz, EFF, and others, progressive politicians' campaigns, and even, at times, elected officials like Russ Feingold, Rush Holt, Chris Dodd, and others. As a movement, different coalitions will form and disband within its boundaries. It will manifest itself in different constituencies in different ways. The commonalities are progressive individuals and organizations are building social connections and communicating online. The online progressive movement can be many things. There may be louder or quieter voices, but people operate in the same general direction: progressive change.


Great place to be, here in the 'roots (4.00 / 1)
I line up with this post very comfortably. I have spent a lifetime trying to move the country in a progressive direction. This has always included electing more Democrats than the other kind, but also knowing the broader goals of a more equitable, tolerant and peaceful society required constant pressure from outside the "legitimate" political arena. The netroots is a glorious amplification of progressive possibilities, rapidly and chaotically creating its meaning.  

Can it happen here?

I am bookmarking this post (0.00 / 0)
and will link to it when you eventually argue the same argument that Armstrong made, but with someone else, because I think online does suffer from the same malady as most Americans-- a short memory and attention.

Netroots is vast and more than slightly anarchic (0.00 / 0)
There are definite tendencies amongst the netroots, which for these purposes is probably best defined as those involved in online political activism on behalf of Democrats and/or causes to the left of the political centre.

Most are opposed to the Iraq debacle, for example. Very few would oppose abortion under all circumstances. But there are few overarching issues where acting as a mass group is even possible. On legislative issues, we can only phone representatives and crash webpages, we can't actually wield votes. On Iraq, there are those who want to wait until 2009, those who want to fight countless small battles in the legislative arena, those who want to occupy congressional offices, even those who just favour partition.

Net neutrality is one of the few issues which has generated much in the way of unity, and that's an issue of survival. And even then it isn't a major focus for a lot of people.

The netroots isn't a movement. It's about three dozen movements, which are confusing, difficult to separate and sometimes likely to war with one another. And this is good. This is how democracy works.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


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