Floridians on the delegate controversy

by: fladem

Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 11:48


A new poll of Florida Democrats shows some change in how Floridians view the delegates selected on January 29th. A previous poll had suggested only 24%  wanted to seat the Florida Delegates elected.  In the most recent poll:



44 percent of voters favor counting the Jan. 29 results, with twice as many Clinton supporters as Obama supporters in that camp. If the national party reversed its decision to exclude Florida, Clinton would net 38 delegates in Florida, allowing her to narrow but not close the 100-plus delegate gap with Obama.


Only 8 percent favor holding another vote-by-mail ballot, suggesting the state party made the right call to scrap that idea. The rest of the respondents were split between holding a traditional election, dividing the delegates evenly between Clinton and Obama, and battling it out at the August convention in Denver.

fladem :: Floridians on the delegate controversy
I find it interesting that after several weeks of intense debate, support for seating the delegates elected on Jan 29th is still below 50%.  

On the central question of whether this was a "real election", the poll provides ammunition to the Clinton campaign.  56% of Floridians thought there were able to make an informed decision in advance of the primary, and only 2% didn't vote because of delegate dispute.


What if no Florida Democrats are seated?   According to the poll:

66% said it would have no impact

14% said it would make them much less likely to support a Democrat

10% said it would make them somewhat less likely to support a Democrat

9% refused


You can read these numbers a bunch of different ways, but my overall impression is surprise at how little damage refusing to seat the delegation would seem to create.  Moreover, the wording of the poll does not tell us what would happen if a 50/50 delegation were seated.  Would the 14% who said they would be much less likely to support a Democrat be satisfied?  


But the most important question is this: who do Democrats blame for the crisis?  At this point most the Republicans (28%), the DNC (25%) and the Florida Democratic Party (20%).   The most crucial finding in this poll is that only 5% blame the candidates , which suggests that the ultimate impact of this debacle on our chances in November may prove far more minor that I have previously feared.  


In the end, I think the way out of this mess is obvious: seat half of the delegates elected on January 29th.  Most Florida voters view their election as legitimate, and imposing the 50% penalty would  be the same penalty imposed by the Republicans.  Importantly, it would also allow Democrats in this state to attack the Republicans for creating this mess, a danger I think Gov. Crist is eager to avoid.


I would hope this last finding creates a sense of urgency among the Clinton and Obama campaigns to find a solution to this issue.  There is at this moment an opportunity to minimize the impact of this mess in Florida and keep alive at least a hope of carrying this state.  For the Obama campaign in particular this is a delicate situation as it is imperative that it avoid the perception that it opposes seating the Florida delegation.


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the calendar must be enforced (0.00 / 0)
Any solution which seats delegates based on the results of the January election will make it impossible for the party to enforce a calendar in future elections and therefore make it impossible to finally get rid of the ridiculous way that New Hampshire and Iowa get to always be first. States will reason that the attention from moving up far outweighs the damage of losing half their delegates. If there isn't going to be a re-vote, then the party and the candidates need to find some other solution like splitting the delegates 50/50 or assigning them all uncommitted.

From a purely Florida persective (0.00 / 0)
seating half the delegates as elected would address the concern about the enforcement of rules in future contests.

First, Florida has had far less influence in this primary fight than it would have had if it had played by the rules.  There was no campaign in Florida, and there is no evidence from polling that the winner received any bounce.

Second, taking 50% of the delegates away from Florida reduces the impact that it will have on the eventual nominee.

Taken together I think these two factors are enough to discourage anyone from trying what Florida did in the next cycle.


[ Parent ]
Floridians are tired of being the butt of jokes (0.00 / 0)
I forgot the guy's name, but he's a Clinton supporter--anyway, he suggested giving each candidate a 1/2 delegate instead of a full delegate.  I'm an Obama supporter, and I think that's the best idea for Florida.  It would also allow Edwards to keep his delegates.

As for Michigan, I think Obama is hurting himself by opposing a revote.  If Clinton's big-money backers are willing to waste $12 mil on a revote (rather than giving that money to the DNC), so be it.  It's going to come out a tie anyway.  As long as there are people to monitor the vote and make sure it's fair, I don't see the problem with a revote.


this week (4.00 / 1)
I just noticed something.  For better or worse, Obama has the spotlight all to himself these days.  Hillary is mostly off the radar, it's Obamarama all day long on the TV, in the papers, on the blogs.  It's not all good for him of course, but the big speech yesterday certainly was a plus.
Hillary can't play catch-up if everyone's talking Obama.

twice as many Clinton supporters as Obama supporters (0.00 / 0)
shows this has nothing to do with notions of representation or democracy, the debate is dominated by people looking for an angle. if fl and mi are not going to revote, then seat half like the GOP did - they should not be rewarded in full for breaking the party rules, even if you think Iowa and New Hamp suck. And give Obama the undecideds in mi. or give him none, its not going to matter, the more "favorable" decisions on all this HRC receives the less legitimate she looks. I guess you can throw that into MHO, but i think thats what the general public perception will be, and it will certainly be focus of the media if things go into the convention. I'm still not convinced were going to the convention. SuperDs could pledge themselves earlier - no?  

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

The Florida Case (0.00 / 0)
is, I think, materially different that the Michigan case.

In Michigan Obama wasn't even on the ballot.  According to the exit poll, caucus goers would have voted as followed if everyone had been on the ballot:

Clinton 46%
Obama 35%
Edwards 12%

There is no way in my view to argue that the delegate allocation in Michigan in any way resembles the voters' intent in Michigan.  Florida, by contrast, has much less of a problem in this regard because everyone was on the ballot.  


[ Parent ]
to me the undecided is a clear rejection of Clinton (0.00 / 0)
so whether that was for obama or edwards, it was obviously a not Clinton vote. if Hillary wants MI seated, then she should accept that the undecideds were a repudiation of her. Obama gets to be that surrogate. is it an imperfect deal, sure. but right now nobody has anything better. its as close to fare as we can get under the circumstances. to me thats the way it goes. we have not had any movement on this issue in months. so this could have been decided two months ago and wouldn't be a distraction to real issues in debates. if there had been some movement on coming up with a more equitable solution I could see maybe delaying the decision further. but the solution seems to be the same as it ever was, so I think they should just make the assignments and move on. and as before, only seat half from each state. they can point to the GOP as a reasonable model, voters in those states won't have any rational to with hold votes... which I dont really buy they would do anyway - the ideological differences between dems and GOP are too different and people's feelings about the personalities involved are too strong for people to vote on something as stupid as their delegates not being seated.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

[ Parent ]
Counting votes (0.00 / 0)
No has to sell me on voting for whomever wins the dem nom, but  I am telling you that not counting Fla or Mich, or counting their votes after the nom has been settled, will doom us in the GE. As always fingers crossed for November.

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