PA Debate An Occasion Of Political Violence, Networking

by: Natasha Chart

Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 10:45


Last night, forty minutes into the debate, I felt like George Stephanopoulos and Charles Gibson had taken truncheons to the skulls of the candidates, myself, and the TV watching public in general. A sentiment shared by many, as it happened. I had to get up and move around, ask a few members of the assembled press some questions about why they were there and what they thought.

It was either that, or have a fit of Cthulhic gibbering, and a person has got to safeguard their sanity in this world.

Why Are You Here?

Several people cited the spin room as a draw, getting to ask questions directly of the campaign surrogates. Others said it was a chance for the journalists themselves to connect with each other, swap stories of past events (which is exactly, to be fair, what Chris Bowers, Todd Beeton and I did afterwards over a late meal,) and/or interview each other (which is what I was mostly doing in the press room.) Photojournalist Alex Gross with the Journal Register said he was there for the ambience, to provide a look at more than what they showed on TV. Janet Tegley, a senior producer with CN8, described the event as "historic," said she "wouldn't miss it for the world," and that the event was "filled with other interesting people."

Anthony Walker, the DC-based, US correspondent of The Australian Financial, (sort of an Aussie WSJ,) also cited the atmosphere, and said he was frustrated that there wasn't room for the press in the debate hall itself. He'd said he partly came to get the reaction of people on the ground there in Philadelphia, just as he'd come for the Drexel debate in October of 2007, when "Clinton first showed vulnerability" over an immigration question.

I got a somewhat different take from Jonathan Valania, editor-in-chief of Phawker. (Don't know why, but this morning the link to their live debate coverage turns up a blank entry, though you can see it all on the front page right now. I figure they'll fix this, so I linked to both.) "I thought that debate was pointless, ... a waste of time for the candidates," he said after it was all over. He didn't think the Pennsylvania voters that had been the subject of so much recent discussion had gotten their issues dealt with at all.

The Stare, The Snub And Some Substance

Then Valania suggested that I ask Maureen Dowd what she thought, since she was coming our way. I scanned the direction I was more or less facing, as he indicated, spotted her, then looked back at him. She wasn't that far away, our eyes briefly met, she must have gotten a load of my bleached buzzcut or something, and then she pretty much kept staring most the rest of the way over to where she'd have to file past me in our narrow confines. It made me kind of twitchy.

I once heard Sean Penn described as a person who seemed like he was always looking at a menu in a restaurant where he didn't like the food. That does well to describe the expression on Dowd's face as she looked at me. It wasn't hard to catch her eye when she got close and I turned from my conversation with Valania to ask if she had time for a couple questions, because she was still staring at me sideways like she couldn't believe her eyes.  

Natasha Chart :: PA Debate An Occasion Of Political Violence, Networking
"I've got to go to the spin room," she said, raising a warding hand with haughty languor. She sauntered off with her entourage, surveilled the back section of the room for a scosh, and then headed off to be spun. Well.

I wonder what Maureen Dowd would write about someone who acted like that towards her?

(For contrast, I also didn't get to ask Candy Crowley even a single question. But that's because she was intently working the whole time I was anywhere near her, barely noticing anyone at all who wasn't staffed with her. When I have the look on my face that she did, I can't stand being interrupted, so I didn't interrupt her. And I don't feel snubbed in the slightest thereby.)

Then there was Bobbi Booker, a lifestyle reporter with The Philadelphia Tribune, who said the debate was "boring as sh*t" and that she couldn't "figure out what the photographers [there in the filing center] were doing besides taking pictures of the monitors." Still, she allowed that the hundreds of credentialed press were probably a good thing for the city, the Constitution Center, and likely a good sign for the state of the campaign.

I asked Booker why she thought the Rev. Wright's controversial comments, which happened to be his quotation of a (White) fmr. ambassador to Iraq, were a big deal, but no one was talking about Pastor John Hagee, an anti-Semitic (in the fullest sense) homobigot who's endorsed John McCain. She said it was "no wonder people are hung up on Wright, look who's here." She gestured towards the mostly White press corps.

Booker said there were probably not many more than four to five Black media outlets credentialed to cover the event, in addition to a man she pointed to on radio row whom she said represented a couple of Black radio stations. While she said that it was good to see more women and a sense of diversity, that this was a shame in a city that was home to many media firsts, and the founding of the local group that later started the National Association of Black Journalists.

What I Want To Know ...

Which brings up more questions for me: Why should Maureen Dowd, whose own meticulously coiffed and dyed locks seem to have been airbrushed directly into reality by some fashion photography genius (seriously, her hair is surreal in its perfection,) have ever been allowed to make a national political issue out of John Edwards' hair? And why, by contrast, shouldn't her job be given instead to a real lifestyle reporter like Booker, who still manages to care about nontrivial issues and had a reasonable, human reaction to last night's festival of horrors?

Spin!

Anyway, I went down to check out this spin room of which all were so enamored. It was the quietest milling crowd of that size I'd ever been in, with very few people talking at any one time.

Though it was not by any means a passive crowd. When I upload my pictures later, I'll show you what you had to be willing to elbow your way into in order to talk to Rep. Patrick Murphy (PA-08), who was there representing Obama.

I don't have anything against Murphy, but what I heard him say directly to no less than two different interviewers (not me, I was insufficiently pushy) summed up exactly why I haven't really been able to get excited about the Obama campaign. "People are tired of partisan politics," he said. Really?

After a debate in which the main questions were, as Bowers paraphrased, 'why do you hate America' and 'why are you such a liar,' and after the worst presidency in our nation's history, in addition to all our war-related, economic and social woes, what the public is really outraged about is the partisan politics. Still not buying that one.

When I walked up to Rep. Chaka Fattah (PA-02), he was expressing his disapproval of the way only a few minutes were set aside for real issues when twenty thousand Pennsylvania residents had recently lost their homes to foreclosure. I asked him the Rev. Wright question, and he said it was "because we're not running against McCain yet, ... and the media likes to get focused on distractions."

Then I got to talk to Howard Wolfson, Clinton's communications director. I asked him why, after Clinton had been coming out so strongly earlier in the campaign against Republicans, she wasn't going after McCain on Hagee, either. It's still the primary, he said, so the candidates are mostly talking about what they'd do as president and each other; it hadn't moved to the general election yet.

Wolfson also said in comments to other reporters that there were issues the campaign had wanted to talk about but didn't get to. I heard him specifically cite education and the environment twice. The inclusion of education in his rather clipped comments made perfect sense when Beeton later said that Clinton's statements on No Child Left Behind, specifically, that she'd end it, drew some of her biggest applause lines aside from attacks on Republicans.  

Something To Hold Them To

I tried to ask Howard Fineman a question and he said not right then. But then he, probably an order of magnitude more respectable and influential by establishment standards than Maureen Dowd, went out of his way to walk over to me later so I could ask him something if I wanted.

(I hope these personal impressions and whatnot are tolerable, they might not be especially newsworthy. [She says, after the national 'coffee v orange juice' debate.] Just that they're the sorts of things that people in a media environment will experience and be influenced by anyway, but won't tell you about.)

I asked him about why McCain wasn't getting grilled by the media on Hagee like Obama was on Wright. So, from Howard Fineman himself, this is the word on that:

"They will talk about that later on in the campaign. ... Hagee will come up and McCain will have to defend it." Fineman said that it was because we were still in a primary (where had I heard that before) and that it hadn't moved to the general election yet.

Does that mean that if it were the Republican primary that was still going on, and the Democrats who'd settled on Obama as nominee, that McCain would be getting questioned about Hagee and everyone would hold off asking Obama about Wright until the general election?

Yeah, I don't think so, either. Though no less an authority on what his profession will do than Fineman has now insisted on record that eventually the press will get around to scrutinizing McCain's choice in associates.

The Big Finish

We got in a cab after the debate and the driver wanted to talk politics.

He said that "Bush is the greatest leader in history" because he'd "committed more crimes than you can think of," and yet the 400 and some congressmen and 100 Senators still did whatever he wanted. Even in spite of our economic problems, the $9.5 bn we spend in Iraq every month, and the fact that gas is now nearly $5 a gallon.

It was a good argument, well reasoned.

Can we let that guy ask the questions at the next debate?

Update: My MoDo account now has eyewitness backup. Heh.


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Why are you here? (4.00 / 1)
Why was the debate even held?

A lot of things from last night seemed to make little sense.


This One's Easy, Natasha (4.00 / 2)
Which brings up more questions for me: Why should Maureen Dowd, whose own meticulously coiffed and dyed locks seem to have been airbrushed directly into reality by some fashion photography genius (seriously, her hair is surreal in its perfection,) have ever been allowed to make a national political issue out of John Edwards' hair?

Envy.

The envy of the rich and powerful as a foundational principle of moral ontology is the basis of their entire existence.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


I'm not that surprised MoDo wouldn't want to talk (4.00 / 3)
to strangers, given how universally derided she is. She HAS to stay in a bubble at this point.

        Natasha, I've been meaning to say for a while what a great add you've been to OL. As a chick, I like to see a strong chick voice out there.  
         


[ Parent ]
neat! (4.00 / 2)
Natasha ... it's great to get your behind the scenes report ...thanks

and Dowd is just jealous since there's no way she could rock your haircut  


MoDo's authority (4.00 / 2)
"Why should Maureen Dowd ... have ever been allowed to make a national political issue out of John Edwards' hair?"

Because the Republican Party goes to great lengths to support a journalist who adopts their character frames of manly conservatives and effeminate liberals. (h/t to GGreenwald)


Thanks for sharing (4.00 / 2)
It's interesting to get a sense of what it was like to be there in person.  I have to say, sitting at home watching on my TV, I have rarely felt so angry at the media.  Truly irresponsible, biased, outrageous questioning from ABC.

Sideshow To A Sideshow (4.00 / 1)
Maureen Dowd isn't obligated to talk to Natasha or anyone else. The idea of bloggers interviewing the media who are observing the debate strikes me as the derivative of a derivative anyway. And no, I'm not some Dowd-worshipper. Sometimes she hits, sometimes she misses.

To me, the real story of that debate is the death of ABC "News" as a professional organization. At the ripe old age of 50, I'm watching the ninth presidential campaign of my voting life, and last night's debate was probably the 80th or 90th debate I've seen. It was at or near the bottom of the pile.

Holy Christ, those jokers at ABC took an hour to ask a question that addressed any of the top priorities of the voting public, i.e., the economy, the war, and health care. It's difficult to say what the very worst moment was, but if I was forced to make the choice I'd say asking Obama about flag pins would be in the running.

I'm comforted with the belief, soon to be tested, that the end result of this despicable attempt at a gang bang will be a sharp-edged boomerang aimed straight at both Clinton's campaign and her media shills.

If, as I expect, Obama goes on to win or even come within 5 points in PA, then ABC "News" will learn first-hand about the Law of Unintended Consequences. I hope I'm right. Last night's freak show was as bad as freak shows get.


Wishful thinking? (0.00 / 0)
"I'm comforted with the belief, soon to be tested, that the end result of this despicable attempt at a gang bang will be a sharp-edged boomerang aimed straight at both Clinton's campaign and her media shills. "

I'd have more confidence in this coming to pass if it were not for the fact that the very same M$M that stands to be hit by the "sharp-edged boomerang" is the same group of people that will have to conclude that such has happened.

That they will readily start kicking Clinton when she's down is almost a certainty, but with regard to holding ABC News, Stephanopolous, or Gibson to account - I'm not holding my breath.  They did their job, after all.  They kept the tabloidesque "controversies" going and managed to crowd out any substantive talk, so that we will now be "entertained" by a week's worth of media "analyses" as to how badly this debate was handled - along with the revived topics of Wright, Tuzla, Ayers, and lapel pins.  Top-shelf media without any real content - but plenty of scandalous talk and innuendo - that's the goal here.  I wouldn't be surprised if ABC gives them a raise.



"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
There Are No Silver Bullets (0.00 / 0)
ABC isn't going to dry up and blow away if they fail to pull it out for Clinton. They'll sail right along as if nothing happened. But I do think that an Obama upset in PA, if it were to happen, would be a very big deal. Not just in the Democratic primaries, but it would send one hell of a message to the news media.

But you know what? You're right, I'm dreaming.


[ Parent ]
Dreaming is free (0.00 / 0)
It was not my intention to rain on your parade.

Its clear that the M$M is struggling to maintain its hegonomy - its "gate-keeper" status. We may differ in perspective.  When I read a statement like:

"ABC isn't going to dry up and blow away if they fail to pull it out for Clinton. "

its seems to paint an inverted picture from how I see the relationship between media and the government.  Maybe its not your intention, but such suggests that the media chooses the candidate - I don't believe this.  I think the media is a tool of those that rule this nation.  I don't mean the congress, the supreme court, or the president - I mean the corporo-military complex. The punditocracy doesn't choose the candidates they favor - they are instructed (overtly and covertly) to favor one or the other.  Take down ABC - or even the entire broadcast media system - the rulers (its no accident that I don't use the word "government") will replace that particular veil with another.  

Now, perhaps, given the tremendous increases in the ability of individual human beings to very quickly share information (news), tactics, and ideas - just maybe, we might be able to truly pierce the veil of the "media" and get a glimpse of how this whole "ruling the world" thing works.  Now I'm dreaming - but at least, I'm awake!

I think you are awake, too, BTW.

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Obligation (0.00 / 0)
No, Dowd isn't obligated to talk to me. Though if she doesn't want to be written up like this, she could have the human courtesy not to stare me up and then be snotty about refusing to talk to me. There was an MSNBC reporter who just told me she didn't want to be interviewed; she was polite about it and over and above that, very friendly, and that didn't bother me in the slightest.

Also, the media like to portray themselves as an unbiased lens through which we see the news. They talk as if they stood apart, but they themselves are significant public figures with a lot of influence over our politics. Why isn't their non-Obama-related behavior and opinion at least part of what's worth talking about to you?

About your other points ...

You're clearly only concerned about Obama getting beat up in the press and not about the principle or the tactics or really changing the debate. You watch that, read this, and instead of being most infuriated by the media's behavior, you defend Dowd and hope for a 'best outcome' of everything that transpired being used as a weapon against Clinton.

Tedious.  


[ Parent ]
Grow Some Skin, Natasha (0.00 / 0)
Or maybe review the concept of me/not-me. Dowd's just another person. Her hair doesn't matter, her stare doesn't matter, and neither does all the psychodrama matter. The whole columnist-as-1960s-confessional-poet thing has always left me cold. If I want to read Anne Sexton, I know where to find her.

Hell, I think last night's debate is going to wind up being ABC News's gift to Barack Obama. Maybe I'll be wrong about that, but it's how I'm looking at it. It reminds me of the films I've seen of the Army-McCarthy hearings, where Welch, the Army guy, says to McCarthy: At long last, sir, have you no decency?

I have some sad news. You, like me, are what the economists call a "price taker," not a "price maker." We get what we get. Clinton does what she wants. ABC News does what they want. Maureen Dowd does what she wants, and so does the New York Times. It worries me that no one has named me emperor, because things would be so much better, but I'm getting used to it.

You should do. There are times when a celebrity will do nothing but stare. Life is unfair that way. And since it is, I might suggest focusing on the unfairnesses that count, like the freak show that ABC News foisted on the public last night. I do think it'll benefit Obama, but only if people call them out on their egregious bullshit. Maureen's hair and rudeness can wait for another day.


[ Parent ]
correction (0.00 / 0)
"You should, too."

[ Parent ]
I Could Make An Exception ... (0.00 / 0)
... for Megan McArdle, the Atlantic Monthly "economics" writer who is not just manifestly incompetent, but who put the self in self-absorbed. Go get her, tiger! ;-)

[ Parent ]
Rudeness (0.00 / 0)
See, I firmly believe in people's right to be rude given probable cause. Like your telling me to 'grow some skin.' I think I have probable cause at this point, as opposed to being inclined to be rude to you without first knowing something about you, like that you're one of those yuk-yuk, suck-it-up jerk sort of people who never get that making the world better is as much about how people treat each other as it is how institutions operate.

If I thought that 'we get what we get' was the final word, I wouldn't bother doing this. Which is funny, because you're supposed to be on the side of audacious hope, yet you seem to think we're all powerless to change anything.

Here's the rub: our media institutions are made up of individuals like Tegley, Dowd, Fineman, etc., and the people who admire, dislike and listen to them.

Here's the other rub: all those people determine what you get on TV and in your paper, and what all your neighbors get, and so to a large extent, shape the limits of what everyone thinks about.

Gibson and Stephanopoulos probably decided that their behavior last night was fine because they hang around with people like Dowd and Hannity and associates who all think that's fine. These people run a major part of our society, and they're public figures every bit as much as the candidates and their surrogates in the spin room.

Back to the rudeness, I was planning to tell you what I think of your opinion of my writing, but there aren't words made up of fractional letters. So I'm sadly at a loss.


[ Parent ]
Criticism Is ... (0.00 / 0)
... the surest sign that someone is taking you seriously. I won't ascribe that to your criticism of me, but rather to mine of your words. If I thought you were a complete fool, I wouldn't have bothered to engage you.

[ Parent ]
I think you're just being a prick.. (0.00 / 0)
Her personal experience accounts struck me as a little strange too, but I wasn't so offended that I felt obligated to trash the author.

There were much more constructive ways to make the same criticisms you just made, where you wouldn't have came off sounding like an asshole. A 'wanking,' asshole at that.

Not trying to ad hom, I can tell you're pretty smart, I just think you're acting like a jerk. I don't just say this cause Natasha is female, I would think the same no matter who she was.

As for the whole Maureen Dowd thing, it doesn't totally surprise me to hear that she would act elitist (sorry for that I'm sure we're all sick of hearing this word). Nor does it strike me as unreasonable for Natasha to include that account/observation in her writing. At least you are getting some sort of new information/original reporting from this that you wouldn't have gotten reading the other 20382072036720372 accounts writers have written about this even.

End this war. Stop John McCain. Cindy McCain is filthy rich.


[ Parent ]
Oh Boy! (0.00 / 0)
Natasha needs to grow some skin, and I need to stop wanking. What do they say about academic battles being so vicious because so little is at stake?

[ Parent ]
I'm picking up alot of what you are puttin' down (0.00 / 0)
but I do not think that Maureen Dowd even pretends to be unbiased, nor do I think that she denies that she is a "significant public figure" - or at least tries to be.

Even so, I agree that she was rude and for no apparent reason other than your appearance - your relating that anecdote is valuable for the rest of us because it helps us to put her writings into context.


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
The Tail of Ourobus (0.00 / 0)
I just wrote a blogpost about a blogger writing about a journalist trying to interview a politician. Where does that put me on the food chain?

Dowd Report: All MoDo, All The Time

[ Parent ]
Poor Ignored Blogger (0.00 / 0)
One of the biggest complaints bloggers give is that they don't get taken seriously as "real journalists". Maureen Dowd was a columnist on assignment reporting for a column that will be read by millions. Why should she share her observations in advance with you? She shouldn't have been snotty, but your one quote could be interpreted lots of ways.

Professional courtesy would have let someone doing a job do their job. Maureen was there to interview the real newsmakers and not chit-chat with bloggers.

You seem awfully self-conscious about your appearance as well as Maureen's. Would you have felt better if Dowd showed up to her job in a housecoat and curlers?

Dowd Report: All MoDo, All The Time


You Know What? (0.00 / 0)
If Maureen Dowd wants to be "snotty," that's her right. Who ever knows what's inside someone else's head? Like you, I really don't see why she has to talk to everyone who approaches her, or even to be particularly cordial. Put yourself in Dowd's shoes. The constant approaches must get old after a while.

[ Parent ]
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