Let It Play Out

by: Chris Bowers

Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 23:00


Here are two photographs I took on opposite sides of City Hall today, both during rush hour traffic.




In addition to being on different sides of the street and / or with their backs to each other, these dueling rallies that featured clearly different demographics of activists, and were making chants clearly riffing off each other. There was a lot of car honking, but it wasn't clear which rallies were receiving the support because they were so close to each other.

I wrote two posts today about ending the campaign, which you can read here and here. After walking around and thinking about it for a while, I have come to the conclusion that the party just isn't ready for the nomination campaign to be over yet. The Obama campaign, and Obama supporters, are still attacking Clinton, clearly a sign they don't consider the campaign to be over. Clinton is still raising money at nearly the same level as John Kerry in 2004, clearly a sign that Democratic activists are not ready for the campaign to be over. Clinton still leads in four states and jurisdictions that have yet to vote, clearly a sign that Democratic voters are not ready for the campaign to end. Hundreds of media personnel and millions of viewers tuned into the debate last Wednesday, clearly a sign that the media and the general public are not ready for the nomination campaign to end.

The nomination campaign will end when the party as a whole is ready for it to end. Right now, I just don't see it, not even from the Obama campaign. Canceling the North Carolina debate today is a sign that the desire to end the campaign is growing, but that desire is still not at a critical mass. When there is a critical mass, Clinton's support in national polls will collapse, her fundraising will dry up, superdelegates will start to move en masse, and the media will stop covering it because the general election is getting more ratings. All of those things are happening to different extents already and, unless Clinton manages to pull out a victory in Indiana, after May 6th I expect a rapid acceleration of the process.

No one can force the campaign to end before the party is ready for it to end, not even Clinton. In order to keep the party unified in the fall, Obama needs to build up a dominating lead among the rank and file during the nomination campaign. Right now, even though he is virtually assured of winning the nomination, he just doesn't have it. National polls put him right at 50%, according to both Pollster.com and RCP. The unifying process has to happen, in significant measure, during the nomination campaign itself. While we are slowly moving in the right direction, we have not yet reached a sufficient point. If the nomination campaign were to end before the rank and file was ready, then the unification process would be more difficult to the pre-emption of acclimation and closure. In six or seven weeks time, I'm pretty sure that the party will be ready, and that the process will take care of itself. For now, however, I'm fine with working toward that point while the process continues to play itself out. The remainder of the primary season is part of the party's healing process. It won't be over until more of the party is ready to move on from Clinton.  

Chris Bowers :: Let It Play Out

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Let It Play Out | 29 comments
Let it play out (4.00 / 1)
Heh, as if you have any choice.  The healing will take place only on one condition: Michigan and Florida are brought into the process.  Of course Obama won't let that happen, just like he won't allow another debate.  He got his ass kicked at the last one, so he doesn't have the cojones to do another.  

I'll vote for Obama for president (healed) if and only if Michigan and Florida are part of the deal.  Without that happening Michigan and Florida will be lost, and Obama will lose anyway.  Call it Dean's (and your) folly.  


Oh Lord (4.00 / 5)
Clinton is still losing badly even with Michigan and Florida included, now that he has secured the uncommitted delegates from Michigan.

Go ahead and add Michigan and Florida. Dean has said they will be seated. And when they are seated, Obama is still way ahead. What else you got, besides a need to howl at the moon?


[ Parent ]
Howl At The Supers (4.00 / 1)
They still count don't they Chris? Those are the same Supers Obama 'needs' to win right?

And if he is sooo far ahead why won't he debate?

The North Carolina Democratic Party said Monday that the forum in that state, scheduled for next Sunday night, had been canceled. Mr. Obama had not committed to the date.
...
Mr. Obama showed interest in an April 19 debate in North Carolina, which would have presented viewers with a second debate before the Pennsylvania primary. Mrs. Clinton's campaign expressed concern that April 19 was the first day of Passover, and the organizers went back to the drawing board to propose alternative dates. Mrs. Clinton's campaign subsequently agreed to the April 27 date, but Mr. Obama's did not.

Obama started crying about not debating again the day after the ABC debate and it looks like he is keeping his promise by not debating in NC. Of course the NCDP was polite and didn't mention that in their release. let's see how Obama manages to duck out of the one proposed for the 27th. Will he duck out of presidential debates if the going gets to tough?


[ Parent ]
No... (0.00 / 0)
He had already refused, or at least hadn't accepted, the second debate before the ABC News one.

He has no reason to debate, and I, for one, was already sick of them even before the last one.  I say good riddance.


[ Parent ]
Let's Chill (0.00 / 0)
Let's all chill out about this NC debate business. Obama agreed to a separate NC debate thre weeks before Clinton agreed to one. She didn't agree to that for political reasons just like Obama isn't agreeing to this new one for political reasons. Both parties are equally to blame here. He wanted a NC debate before PN, she wanted one after. Neither would compromise, now there's no debate.

Calm down.


[ Parent ]
Are you so sure (0.00 / 0)
The DNC isn't the one that pulled the plug on NC?

The discussion of "unity" is not one Obama would have introduced. Either the NCDP or--more likely--Dean raised that concern.

If the DNC is not going to sanction any more debates, there will be no more.


[ Parent ]
I bet .. (0.00 / 0)
the DNC did pull the plug .. especially after that mess last week

[ Parent ]
Well Obama (0.00 / 0)
certainly does not want anymore debates and he made that very clear in his appearances directly after the ABC debate. He said no more debates directly from his own mouth.

Trying to blame it on the DNC is typical Obamarama double talk from his supporters.

Besides the DNC does not have to sanction a debate in order for there to be a debate. You know that.


[ Parent ]
No more bullsh*t debates! (0.00 / 0)
It's obvious the networks don't want any real debates; they want to focus on the aquaintances and patriotism of a black man of African/Muslim heritage.  Last week's debate was clearly meant to scare white America into thinking Obama would, as Jon Stewart quipped last night, "enslave the white race."  Why should he do another debate?  So these pinhead moderaters, encouraged by their corporate bosses, can paint Obama as the Manchurian Candidate again?  I say f*ck anymore debates until the general.

[ Parent ]
We're not in control (4.00 / 3)
Of the media or the campaigns. But we can certainly make a conscious decision to refer to Obama as 'the Democratic nominee for president' in our blogging reportage. And the other would be 'Senator Hillary Clinton, former presidential candidate". And report on primaries with a ho-hum tone: "The MSM indicates that Clinton won the Pennsylvania primary by such a small margin that the campaign continues to be over. But the media needs those big ad buys, so they don't plan to admit the outcome till the final week of October."

Etc & so on.


Won't end until Clinton let's it... (4.00 / 2)
The only problem with this "let it play out" theory is that, as I think you've mentioned before, Chris, that Clinton's followers will simply follow her lead.  If Clinton ends up losing PA but says that the fight must go on, her followers will follow.  If Clinton loses in landslides in NC and IN, but says that she's going all the way to the convention, her supporters will follow.

Simply speaking, Clinton IS responsible for the campaign continuing, and for her supporters continuing to donate and make silly arguments about Obama's electability.  Once she (hopefully graciously) quits and endorses Obama, I think the vast majority of Clinton's supporters will be ready to back Obama.  Until then, we're going to see this division continue, slow "creep" towards Obama or not.


Well, isn't that in part because (0.00 / 0)
she's got some good states in front of her, a point Chris made above.

The only way to get closure on this soon is if he wins outright tonight.


[ Parent ]
May I suggest you do a search on "florida, delegates" (0.00 / 0)
There is a strong effort in Florida today by all of Hillary's surrogates here to "demand" that the DNC do what they want. Not a suggestion... a demand.  

One, Corinne Brown is even threatening strong action at convention.  Bill Nelson has already promised that the floors of the convention will be bloody.  There are others...it is a planned effort today.

There is not going to be a "peaceful", calm resolution where Hillary tells her folks to get on board.  Dean did that in 04, but she is not going to do it.  

Florida is her way to the convention.  She will use it to damage Obama as not being legit.

I would like it to go well, but I know these Florida Democrats. I know them too well. Many do not listen to reason.  

They are constantly trying to crash the DNC fundraising, often trashing Dean for doing his job.  

This is not going to end nicely.  


Erm. (4.00 / 2)
   I won't vote for Obama unless he seats all the Florida delegates and then summarily kicks Florida out of these United State once and for all.

John McCain lets lobbyists shape his economic policy

Policy (0.00 / 0)
Here's something.  Clinton at least has been issuing more and more policy statements positions.  Truly she has gone so much into the Populist/Progressive policy realm from when this all began and I would not dismiss that in any way.

That is, after all, kicking out the corporate lobbyists and doing policy for the US, for Working America, for what actually makes sense is at least my major desire and one needs to notice all of these.

I doubt it would have happened if this race wasn't so competitive.

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


Meh? (4.00 / 1)
Clinton at least has been issuing more and more policy statements positions.  Truly she has gone so much into the Populist/Progressive policy realm from when this all began and I would not dismiss that in any way.

Oh-yeah.  I love her new policy of obliterating Iran if they attack Israel.  That's progressiveness at work for ya.  I think this policy will certainly deter the Iranians from getting the nuke.


[ Parent ]
Economics, trade (0.00 / 0)
policy and this new one I haven't looked at and don't know much.  On economics, trade this is true.

NoSlaves.com  


The Economic Populist


[ Parent ]
McCain's example (4.00 / 2)
I understand the sentiment here, Chris, but I don't understand the logic. The healing begins after Clinton drops out and enables the healing. Look at McCain's example. There was no critical mass of Republicans clamoring for the campaign to be over. McCain didn't suddenly start polling over 50 percent. When McCain locked it up in mid-February, the rank and file of the party wasn't ready for the race to end. But it did. And they were better off for it. McCain didn't need the process to play out. He just needed to be declared the winner, and THEN he was able to consolidate the party, not before. I see no evidence that "The unifying process has to happen during the nomination campaign itself," and I see even less evidence that we are moving in the right direction.  

Different bases (0.00 / 0)
The Republican core vote likes authoritarian leaders who will tell them what to do. One can see this as their primaries only happen when one of the lower-down leaders fails to follow a more powerful leader.

The Democratic base appears to favour a much more consensual style of leadership. Telling Hillary's supporters that the race is over isn't necessarily going to convince them.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


[ Parent ]
You are right ... (0.00 / 0)
look at Chris' favorite Senator(yes .. snark) .. "Man-on-Dog" Santorum ..  he just yesterday jumped on the McBush bandwagon ... after loudly saying for months that McBush is a phony conservative

[ Parent ]
Quitting Debates While Trailing? (0.00 / 0)
In general I think your list of ending the campaign is insightful, but the front runner should just quit participating in debates while he's trailing in upcoming states? Sure, not a bad strategy, and one he should be blasted for. I'm buying a car, I'm about to sign the paper and put down the deposit, but say, "Hey, can I have one more quick look under the hood?" The car salesman tells me, "Sorry, you've already looked enough, we need to get out of here." "But the sign says you're open till 5:30." "Yes, but we have a lot of paperwork to do, really, 4pm is the latest we handle purchases".

I love the Obama campaign condemning Hillary's "fear" campaign. Like what, she's going to campaign on "hope squared" - we'll cure cancer within a week, be out of Iraq in two? The only real argument against unrealistic expectations is to argue why they're unrealistic. Sorry if "fear" brings you down, but if all you've been shown is blue skies forever, you don't have enough fear in your life.

I will agree with Chris that Hillary's focus on popular voting is unfortunate. Obama & that media tricked her into that position, and she got stuck in it. Mark Penn didn't even want to compete in Iowa - not enough delegates, not a good enough payoff. And she finished 2nd in delegates, but back then the press didn't count delegates - they only worried about popular voting until they let Obama change the mantra in Nevada. With disenfranchising Michigan and Florida and the obvious discrepancies between caucus and primary turnout and performance, it's been a very fortunate strategy. But it will leave a burr in the Democratic Party's ass if not dealt with. All the talk about caucuses stirring up involvement in the Party rings hollow when people are turning out to polls in record numbers. 2008 - the year when supporting casino workers above all became a sacrosanct Democratic pledge - silly me, all this time I thought casinos were symbols of American corruption and patronage at its worst.

2008 - 3 months of voters being told "just give up, it's over" when for first time there was a chance of actually a full meaningful 50-state competition taking place. Four months after I heard someone wryly comment "there are more World of Warcraft players then there are white self-employed farmers, but no one's asking WoW players for their opinion" I'm still hearing that little states count and big states don't. Obama pulled out his players and big endorsements to flood Texas and California with ads and rallies - and in the end couldn't do it. Couldn't carry Massachusetts with Kennedy and Kerry by his side. But it's been the year where people's votes don't matter as much as how many people you can get at a rally.

And it's been the year of "reaching across the aisle" except that reaching has never extended to Clinton supporters, only Republicans. Despite umpteen million voters for Clinton, there's been the presumptive refrain, "the more people get to know Hillary, the less they like here". So what happened in Ohio? Why couldn't Obama close the deal?

Here's a hint - the campaign could be over early - when Obama finally faces the fact that it's not over yet and that he has to woo the Hillary supporters, address his own weaknesses in a way that makes us take him seriously. I don't care about flag pins, but I do care about his weakness in discussing international affairs and I do care about what I see as a "government should solve our problems" as reflected in his preacher and his congregation and bitter-gate and "first time proud". You can call me a Republican, but I see blacks as having broken new ground in access to power, good jobs and wealth - MLK noted in 1968 that blacks would form the 9th wealthiest nation if bonded together, and in 2008 they're still at 13. So aside from the deserved blame for Katrina and prisons overflowing with blacks on drug charges, let's see the hope side - when does the black community stop being bitter and recognize progress and unprecedented opportunity, when does the white community stop commiserating and just nodding its collective head Oprah-style, and instead move us to a new set of possibilities, stop playing the victim card. Because the worst thing for me in 2008 was hearing Rev. Wright talk about a little black girl with no opportunity to be a "nuclear physicist" when in his congregation are people who've benefited from those very opportunities, used these opportunities very admirably to become very successful - graduating from America's best schools, working at the top of America's political power. Let me see some hope in practice, not just as a billy club for guilt and a thin veneer covering anger and bitterness. Because right now, Bush can go away and Democrats will still be left floundering around not knowing how to use their power, because they'll be wanting someone else to make those hard decisions. You can't blame government any more when you are the government.


Quitting Debates While Trailing? (4.00 / 1)
I should note that the opportunity I refer to isn't just political - there have been 12 black astronauts, including shuttle commanders, and 4 of those were women. Internet access and a wealth of information and instruction is just a phone connection and a $400 computer away. When black households make on average $46,000 a year, this just isn't much of an obstacle anymore (and blacks were able to rise to a high level of literacy 100 years ago when obstacles were much greater). Blacks have successfully made it into stock investment and home ownership - making the mortgage crisis one of the largest issues in front of the black community.

This primary season is largely about race, but it shouldn't be about race in 1968 - it should be about race in 2008, but a lot of people don't seem to get the difference.


[ Parent ]
Yet, Obama basically said as much in his speech... (0.00 / 0)
Guess you missed it.

[ Parent ]
It's all about tone (0.00 / 0)
There is nothing inherently wrong with Clinton staying in the race until the very last moment; what is wrong is with her maintaining a destructive tone.  It's that simple.

Most were not upset with Huckabee because, even though he stayed in the race until the end, he made no attempt to denigrate or belittle McCain.  If only Clinton could act this way too.


Huckabee (4.00 / 1)
How did playing the nice guy work out for Huckabee?

What has John McCain done for veterans?

[ Parent ]
Huckabee (0.00 / 0)
We'll see when McCain makes his VP and cabinet picks.

[ Parent ]
After PA Everything Will be Different (4.00 / 1)
zIf Obama only loses by single digits -everything is going to change dramatically. Yes, Hillary will continue. But everyone will see that there is no way for her catch him in ANY metric.

He will be seen as the presumptive nominee. All she can do at best is chip away at the numbers - but she will seen as the loser.

PA will be the tipping point. Tomorrow morning will be a new day in the campaign fro Obama. Canceling the NC primary is the first step to stopping to the negativity on both sides. He will start to be magnanimous . Clinton supports will drift  increasingly his way. Clinton donors will dry up. The healing will begin.


With all due respect (0.00 / 0)
THe picture you've got in this thread is actually LESS activity than we saw in MI in our February primary in 2004--at a time when Dean was making a desperate bid to stay relevant, but when it was clear that that bid was going to be futile.

Within 2 weeks, Dean had conceded.


May 7th as an end date (0.00 / 0)
If Clinton's victory today gets viewed as a loss (or even fails to materialise - unlikely but not inconceivable) then perhaps the campaign could come to an end with victories on May 6th.

Otherwise, however, I can't see that as an end date. WV and Kentucky are probably the two best states for Clinton in the entire calendar. She can still win there so the race will have to continue into June.

Forgotten Countries - a foreign policy-focused blog


Let It Play Out | 29 comments
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