A Digital Progressive Mob

by: Matt Stoller

Thu May 01, 2008 at 13:50


In my last post, Grouping and Giving, I noted the tendency of activists wanting to act together.  The first comment, though, was from aiko, and said 'Open Left needs to deal with this, it isn't going away', and pointed to this recommended diary on Dailykos about Women's Voices Women's Vote.  Josh Marshall in particular has been flogging this story without context, implying some sort of nefarious subplot here despite WVWV's long track record of registering unmarried women and statements from both Obama and Clinton supporters validating their work.  WVWV has worked with the NAACP, the National Council of La Raza, and is a highly respected organization that does real data-driven voter registration oriented towards registering the 20 million unmarried women that were not even registered in 2004.

And yet, these are the kinds of nasty accusations coming at WVWV.

Did Women's Voices lie to the Virginia State Police when they promised to stop making anonymous robo-calls? Or were the illegal, anonymous calls in North Carolina just another "accidental omission?"

I believe this is the lowest point I have ever seen the blogosphere sink.  There is no reason whatsoever for this mob mentality to go after one of the most important voter registration efforts out there designed to empower women.  I don't meant that WVWV shouldn't be questioned and held accountable for its incompetence, but there is a difference between arguing that the group made mistakes and making the case that it is a voter suppression effort.  

There is simply no motive here for voter suppression.  If WVWV was trying to suppress votes in North Carolina for Clinton or Obama, why would they also be doing this work in 24 states at the same time?  If they are such an evil anti-progressive group, why would they award 'female blogger of the year to Digby' and run ads encouraging women to vote?

The most likely reason WVWV is engaging in weird voter registration efforts is because they didn't expect the primary to go on this long and their strategy was organized around registering voters for the general election.  There's a lot of hype around WVWV sending people information after the voter registration deadline had already passed, as if WVWV was trying to suppress primary votes.  But it's quite clear that WVWV is trying to register people for the general election, and that deadline hasn't passed.

Reminding people to vote after a primary registration deadline is an effective way to generate registrations.  'oh, I missed it, I won't miss it next time' is a powerful motivator.  This tactic has the downside of confusing and upsetting people who are registered, but if the lists aren't clean, I can see an organization deciding to annoy a bunch of registered voters in order to register others, especially if your metric for success is the number of voters you register and not the number of registered voters you annoy.  During a hotly contested primary, this is a big blunder, but in 2004 and 2006, WVWV probably did this and it worked to register a lot of voters without the intense focus on the irritation of registered voters.

Much of politics, including campaigns, is annoying people until they do stuff.  This isn't an excuse, but it does offer an explanation as to why WVWV isn't an evil group but probably used some irritating tactics to register voters.

There are some unanswered questions here, and WVWV has engaged in an utterly atrocious PR strategy.  They didn't put out the fires quickly, they weren't forthcoming with information, and they allowed a PR disaster to happen.  But, and this is a very big but, we screwed ourselves here by blowing this up into a story the Repubicans will use to damage all our voter registration efforts. We do not need these obstacles, considering the Supreme Court's recent decision disenfranchising voters.

Accusing a group of doing secretive robocalls, and then doing very little follow-up to contextualize any of it, is like irradiating an area.  This will not go away, even if WVWV is exonerated or it is found that the group made some innocent mistakes.  And the mob mentality online is just unbelievable and mean-spirited.

Women's Voices Women's Vote does one the most important and underhyped jobs in progressive politics, registering unmarried and disempowered women to vote using intense research methods.  They are also embarking on new models of voter registration for people of color.  They group is dedicated to empowering people.  Congratulations, aiko, for demanding I 'deal' with them.  

At times like this I feel like there is no movement at play in the primary at this point.  It's just a group of childish, whiny, spoiled cheerleaders of imperial gladiatorial combat.

Ridiculous.

Update:  Adam Bonin has a thoughtful take on the issue, which, while I disagree on many points, is carefully written and includes a nice set of responses from WVWv.

Matt Stoller :: A Digital Progressive Mob

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Some of us... (4.00 / 2)
have been trying to point out this mob mentality for awhile.  It's nice that you and Chris are calling attention to it now.  Of course, you'll soon be accused of being involved with the plot to suppress the vote.

Exactly (0.00 / 0)
This has been going on for quite a while. Not sure why he's just now noticing it. I would add to that the level to which Daily Kos, Mydd and Talk Left are now nothing but shill sites.  

[ Parent ]
Open Left (0.00 / 0)
has been one of the few sites that I've been able to read for the past couple of months because they haven't been as bad as the others.  Some of my favorite bloggers have said some pretty despicable things about Democratic candidates, and it's been disheartening, to say the least.

[ Parent ]
On the one hand (0.00 / 0)
the newer posters who all showed up here because of the primary can be excused for their behavior. Not so-much with blog creators.

[ Parent ]
I agree with everything Adam said. (4.00 / 1)
Right down the line. I strongly recommend to those who haven't read it that they do so right away. It is full to the brim with clear, common-sensical thought. No overemotional ranting or name-calling or rationalization.
 

Thanks (0.00 / 0)
I think it is appropriate to give this problem a full scale airing out. We should expect and demand the highest standards from progressive institutions. Thanks for your effort.

(p.s. i think the primary is weighing down hard on all of us and contributing to our mood swings. hopefully it will be over soon.)


Get off it, Matt (4.00 / 2)
For you of all people to suddenly be calling other bloggers childish, spoiled, and whiny is the height of irony.

Get a grip and realize that there are a lot of different viewpoints in the blogosphere - and that it may not be as monolithic as you thought (or want) it to be.


What of the subject matter he's discussing? (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Matt says (4.00 / 1)
"At times like this I feel like there is no movement at play in the primary at this point.  It's just a group of childish, whiny, spoiled cheerleaders of imperial gladiatorial combat.

Ridiculous. "

EXACTLY.... just  how I and others felt about your Obama Fox interview post among others....
"pot calling kettle... Matt"? you are as guilty as anyone, the point should be WHO started this kind of rhetoric?
Answer that one!


Having read a number of summaries on this topic (4.00 / 6)
I really don't find the responses from this group particularly trustworthy.

The group's reaction thus far sounds more like the way a bank answers questions when it makes a mistake on an account.   They frankly reak of condencension.  SERIOUS questions are being raised here, and I don't see how asking those questions makes me part of a mob.  


Agreed (0.00 / 0)
There are some people freaking out about "ZOMG Evil KKKlintoon Konspiracy!!!1!" but frankly they should be either ignored or ridiculed.

That said, the whole thing stinks to high heaven, and regardless of the good work of the group in the past, this incident [and the others preceding it] is incredibly shady.  I'm really unsatisfied with their answers so far, and hopefully the NC AG will get to the bottom of it.


[ Parent ]
I've been withholding judgement on this one (4.00 / 1)
But it really does stink to high heaven.  There's been enough ratfucking from the Clinton camp that people are right to be parinoid.  This is yet another example of how the toxic atmosphere surrounding this primary is harming progressive politics in general.

Politics is inherently a mob activity.  It's about the power of people in numbers to affect change, reflecting the popular will.  During election season, it's the job of the politician to try and channel to mob in a particular direction. Every now and then there's a stampede and somebody gets trampled.  


stinks? (4.00 / 2)
What exactly stinks about it?  What was WVWV trying to do, exactly?  Sending out robocalls to 24 states, most of which have already voted in the primary, is a really inefficient voter suppression strategy.

[ Parent ]
I made the same point below (4.00 / 2)
But I'll make it again here. I've been following, reporting on, opposing and trying to stop voter suppression tactics for a very long time. If this is one, it is far and away the most intricate and sophisticated --  making millions of post-election calls and registering hundreds of thousands of new voters as, I don't know why, as a "cover?"

It's not plausible. Mistakes, incompetence, maybe even a plan with legal holes in it. I hate to say this, but if we're going to start lynching progressive groups for incompetence we're going to need to buy a lot of rope.....



[ Parent ]
a few things (4.00 / 2)
The anonymous nature of the calls is a big one for me. Not only did they not say who they were from, they used Caller-ID blocking.  That costs extra, indicating a deliberate attempt to conceal the origin of the calls. They were repeatedly asked by both law enforcement and election officials to stop this behavior and did not do so.

Also, given the caliber of individuals associated with the group, I find it difficult to attribute this solely to incompetence.  It's not like they are the Bush administration.  They should have known that after years of deliberate vote suppression attempts by the Republicans that lots of democrats, particularly minorities, are really sensitive to this kind of thing.  


[ Parent ]
Oy vey... (4.00 / 2)
I suspect the second paragraph here may contain a discomfitting element of truth. In the last 3 months or so, I've come to view the left blogosphere as having devolved into becoming about as "reality-based" as the right's been these past 7 years..."Dear Leaderism" strikes anew!

[ Parent ]
Whoops! I was referring to this second paragraph (0.00 / 0)
Politics is inherently a mob activity.  It's about the power of people in numbers to affect change, reflecting the popular will.  During election season, it's the job of the politician to try and channel to mob in a particular direction. Every now and then there's a stampede and somebody gets trampled.


[ Parent ]
Examples, please (0.00 / 0)
You may not like the Clinton campaign, but I'm not aware of any "ratfucking" along the lines of violating federal election laws to suppress the vote.  Maybe I just missed them.  



[ Parent ]
that's really weak (0.00 / 0)
"Ratfucking" was the term used by the SoCal group in the Nixon administration.  A completely different level.  Let's try to be a little bit measured.

[ Parent ]
Did you hear (4.00 / 1)
that Obama had sex in a limo in 1999 with some guy named Larry Sinclair?  If he did that, and lie about it, he'll do anything.  Ratfucker.

[ Parent ]
Dumb of Deceitful? (0.00 / 0)
Can you really get though life with such a lack of discernment?  Would it suprise you that Obama supporters have been accused of exactly the same sort of thing, and that intelligent people largely reject the reports on both sides as unsubstantiated?

Do you believe it when Bill Clinton accuses Obama of voter suppression in Nevada?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t...

Or Obama dirty tricks in Washington State?

http://www.talkleft.com/story/...

Or Obama irregularities in Texas?

http://www.talkleft.com/story/...

I'm a Clinton supporter, and I don't give any of this any credibility.  This election is full of partisans - some of them don't understand the rules, some get excited and break them, some of them get excited and make up stories about the other side breaking the rules, or misinterpret the actions on the other side.

The notion that you would cite an oral report from an Obama supporter as proof of illegal activity can only be a sign of incredible gullibility or conscious deceit.  


[ Parent ]
I see big immigration rallies on TV (4.00 / 1)
Maybe it's time to change the subject.

I vary between thinking Matt is right and thinking Matt sounds exactly like David Broder here.  The behavior is out of hand, but this is a story the blogs discovered and developed, so it's hardly surprising to find a lot of interest in it.  

Adam B's post is excellent.


New Jersey politics at Blue Jersey.


Let it go, Matt (4.00 / 3)
WVWV has screwed up big time and the onus is on them to resolve it. Not only do they have to do what they can to remedy the situation, but they also have to be transparent in investigating the cause and exposing it.

You and Chris are not helping. You're taking very strict sides and polarizing the OpenLeft community.

Heated comments are nothing new, they've always been there. Your front page should be the voice of reason and objectivity, not a hostile and polarizing voice.


hostile (0.00 / 0)
Demanding that good progressives go to jail for some innocent mistakes makes me furious.  It should make you furious, but it's easier to join the mob than reason.

[ Parent ]
Be furious but don't act furious (0.00 / 0)
It's just not practical. Being angry does not typically result in making wise decisions and that's all I'm saying. I certainly do not ask for anyone to go to jail and have not joined a mob, that I'm aware of. I'm saying that a milder reaction on your side would be more helpful to your cause, but that's just my opinion.

[ Parent ]
What makes me mad (0.00 / 0)
is being called part of a mob.

[ Parent ]
What evidence do you have for your position? (0.00 / 0)
I think that's the problem.

[ Parent ]
Guilty until proven innocent? (0.00 / 0)
What are you referring to, the WVWV or s/he not being part of a mob? Are you asking the poster for evidence of not being part of a mob?!?!

[ Parent ]
Do you want clariification from me or confrontation? (0.00 / 0)
It seems like you want confrontation. But, I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and try to clarify my question.  I was asking what evidence does she and others have that there was an intent to suppress the vote. Matt's position, if I am understanding him, is that there are two choices here to explain the organizations acts: a) intentional or b) inadvertant. The "mob" mentality is therefore where no one has evidence about the intention versus inadvertant, but proceed to run with it as if they do. I don't pretend to know enough about this. I just  know what's being presented doesn't push in either direction so much as says "well the events happened, and, therefore, there were bad actors." If you don't want to be called mob- the first step is to not act like one- present arguments proving your position. Otherwise, you are just relying on numbers and repetition. That's why I asked for evidence of the position that it was intentional.

[ Parent ]
"the group made mistakes" (4.00 / 1)
Page Gardner tried passing off the anonymous calls - each and every one a criminal act - as "an accidental omission" when the Virgina police nailed her doing it in February. She promised it wouldn't happen again.

Two months later she's nailed doing the exact same thing. And she dares to play the "oops!" card again!

Well, we'll see how that plays with the North Carolina Attorney General - who is now officially investigating. I hope he nails her and all her accomplices to the wall.

In the meantime, the author has the gall to characterize a glaring pattern of persistent criminal conduct as "the group made mistakes".

Intellectual dishonesty this rank is usually found only among the neo-cons.


Virginia (0.00 / 0)
http://www.vsp.state.va.us/New...
"No charges will be placed against the organization, as neither the
statewide phone solicitations nor mass mailings violate state law."

Join us at the Missouri community blog Show Me Progress!

[ Parent ]
I just want to go on record agreeing with Matt (4.00 / 2)
As some of you know, I consider voter suppression to be worse than a crime against democracy. It is a crime against humanity.

I have a great deal of experience predicting it, spotting it, opposing it. I simply don't believe the WVWV project is it.

This WVWV controversy has had the appearance of an out-of-control mob from the beginning. Believe me, I understand anger at voter suppression. I think we need more anger at it, not less. But if we're going to stop it, we're going to have to be smart.

Hanging one of our own is not a reasonable or morally defensible way to proceed. Even if they were guilty of more that incompetence (and if they are this is the most sophisticated and unnecessarily intricate and elaborate suppression scheme I've ever heard of, strong evidence that it's no such thing), we should be more responsible in our reaction.


Do you have any facts? (0.00 / 0)
Believing it isn't nefarious just because it is "one of our own" isn't good enough. Many of us remember the 527's that helped take down Dean in Iowa with Obama ads. We're not idiots who need to be managed. Get the facts.

[ Parent ]
Obama? (0.00 / 0)
By intentionally misleading people into confusing Obama and Osama, you're clearly part of the Clintonite conspiracy.

[ Parent ]
There is a mob mentality. (4.00 / 2)
We can harness it for good causes. And we have done it before. But sometimes it gets misdirected. It's like a child who is living in the now. Everything is amplified to the nth degree. If the blogosphere turns on you, well, it ain't pretty. This is exactly why I don't mind that the Obama campaign is keeping its distance from the blogosphere.

Markos keeps saying that he is not a leader. But we do need people who step up and set the tone. The prominent bloggers should act more like facilitators and sometimes as conciliators. Unfortunately, some like fanning the flames.

Many poeple have pleaded for civility in vain for a long time. A little more understanding, giving each other the benefit of the doubt and simply being a little more respectful towards each other would go a long way.

Someone compared the media's covering of the campiagn to a preschool soccer game. Everyone is running after the ball forgetting abut the game. It is the same with the blogoshpere. I don't think we can change that. We just have to try to direct the attention to the right causes.  


Mob mentality? Just because it is a group (4.00 / 2)
on "our side" doesn't mean they shouldn't have to answer obvious questions. This is beyond incompetence. This is a sophisticated operation with millions of dollars and lots of talent behind it. It is not credible that they would make these mistakes....time and time again. Why don't you do that work instead of attacking those who have serious questions.

Follow the money. How is this org funded? By whom? Is there a trail to lead to the Clinton campaign or not? Get the facts. That is how you deal with it, not calling it ridiculous. Page Gardner, the President, is in the FEC dbase as having contributed to Clinton.

GARDNER, PAGE S
MC LEAN, VA 22101
SELF/CONSULTANT

  HILL PAC
05/04/2006 2500.00 26940209579

GARDNER, PAGE S
MCLEAN, VA 22101
CONSULTANT

  CLINTON, HILLARY RODHAM
   VIA FRIENDS OF HILLARY
03/16/2005 400.00 25020180410
03/16/2005 2100.00 25020180410
03/30/2005 1700.00 25020180411  


asdf (0.00 / 0)
HILL PAC donations went to Democratic candidates:
http://www.opensecrets.org/pac...

The other donations were to Hillary's Senatorial campaign, not her presidential.


[ Parent ]
It's interesting how some blogs are (4.00 / 2)
resorting to fallacies to silence the "mob". Testimonials from authorities who have no new information to add is not a convincing move. Get the facts rather than telling us "you are wise" and "they are on our side". Then we'll sort this thing out. You may be right and then again, you may have been spun.

the mob (0.00 / 0)
It would be interesting at some point to explore the dynamics of online mobs, I recall Hannah Arendt examining "the mob" in some detail.

I'm glad to see OpenLeft clearly defending WVWV from the voter suppression accusation. Would it be too much to ask the Obama campaign to stop feeding the fire? I know there are many people on the Obama campaign who are intimately familiar with how WVWV, ACORN, the NAACP and Project Vote work. Obama may be serving his short term interest here, but I can't imagine it helps him in the general election.


But it's quite clear that WVWV is trying to register people for the general election, and that deadline hasn't passed. (4.00 / 2)
Matt, it's "quite clear" NOW that this was their intention, after a press release went out this week explaining in detail all the issues regarding voter registration deadlines, the primary, and how people could find out their status.

But there's no indication that this "general election" issue was brought up at all before this thing exploded in the media and on the blogs.  The press release was apparently after the fact, a CYA move by a scared organization.  The robocall made no such allusion.  And we've yet to see the materials that went out, and whether there's ANY indication that it would be obvious to the recipients that the effort was for the general election.  We just have their word, and their press release, which they're pretending like they released last week or earlier when in fact it was released after the scandal broke.

Something fishy's going on here.  Of course they have a motivation to register progressives for general elections!  It's in their mission.  But that doesn't mean they don't ALSO have a motivation to confuse some of those voters who might vote for the wrong person in the primary.  Especially after they've been warned about it in Virginia just a few months ago.

This is not the "lowest point" of the left blogosphere - these are fair questions that haven't been answered about people who are extremely well connected with the Clinton campaign, including her campaign manager!  But you seem intent on avoiding them.


I agree that both can be true (4.00 / 2)
It is possible -- we don't yet know the facts, at least I do not -- that an organization could be motivated both to register voters for the general election and to confuse and discourage from voting some persons who might vote for the "wrong" person in the primary. I agree with Jakester that asking the questions that bloggers have been asking is perfectly fair. The facts as we've seen them so far do not compute. We need more information.

Matt, are you telling people they shouldn't be asking these questions because of who WVWV is, regardless of what they have done? The North Carolina AG says they broke the law, and it is easy to see how the robo-calls could objectively have had the effect of suppressing minority votes, regardless of anyone's intent. Doesn't the situation beg for more investigation?

Personally, I'm not used to being told by a fellow progressive that an organization I've never heard of before is made up of progressive people and therefore, we should not criticize or press for more information. Even if everything you say about WVWV is true, the organization is not beyond criticism or investigation.


[ Parent ]
Well said. At the very least, we have one hell of a depressing (0.00 / 0)
fuck-up here.  

[ Parent ]
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