Clinton's Best Case Scenario

by: Chris Bowers

Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:26


I know we are supposed to move on from the nomination campaign at this point, but in case there was any lingering doubt Clinton could still win the nomination, the new deal proposed from the Michigan Democratic Party should be an end to it. Every high-level Michigan Democrat now appears to be behind a 69-59 pledged delegate split, plus seating the superdelegates:

Michigan Democratic leaders settled today on a plan to give presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton 69 delegates and Barack Obama 59 as a way to get the delegates seated at the national convention.(...)

The state party's executive committee voted today to ask the national party's Rules and Bylaws Committee to approve the 69-59 delegate split when it meets May 31. The plan would shrink Clinton's delegate edge in Michigan from 18 to 10 and allow the state's 157 delegates and superdelegates to be seated at the convention.

The state's Democratic leaders also pushed back the date of the party's State Central Committee meeting from May 17 to June 14 to give the rules committee time to act. The party is to pick 45 pledged delegates and two superdelegates at that meeting. It chose 83 pledged delegates last month at district conventions.

A separate plan submitted to the rules committee by Democratic National Committee members Joel Ferguson of Michigan and Jon Ausman of Florida, both superdelegates, apparently will be withdrawn now that the Michigan executive committee has settled on the 69-59 plan. Under their proposal, delegates would have been allocated based on the primary election results, but have had only half a vote each. The superdelegates would have had full voting rights.(...)

The 69-59 split was proposed last week by four prominent Michigan Democrats who have been working for months to find a way to get Michigan's delegates seated at the Aug. 25-28 convention in Denver: U.S. Rep. Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick, United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger, U.S. Sen. Carl Levin and DNC member Debbie Dingell.

While this may not be the exact plan that will pass, it is probably pretty close to the exact plan that will pass. Further, because of hte people backing the proposal, it is extremely unlikely that Clinton will get a better deal than this on Michigan. When it or something similar does pass, Florida will become irrelevant, and probably be seated based on something similar to the January 29th results. Here is the delegate count under that scenario:

Clinton's Best-Case Delegate Scenario
Type Obama Clinton Edwards Remaining 50% + 1
Pledged 1,590.5 1,426.5 19 217 1,627
Super 265 284.5 0 300.5 --
Florida 67 105 13 0 NA
Michigan 59 69 0 0 NA
Total 1,981.5 1,885.5 32 517.5 2,208.5

Even with Florida seated as is, Clinton trails by 96 delegates when the Michigan Party's plan is enacted. Further, since Edwards has declined to make an endorsement, his 32 delegates are now effectively uncommitted superdelegates. So, this means that the best case-scenario for Clinton right now is that she trails by 96 delegates with 549.5 delegates remaining. So, even in Clitnon's best case scenario, Obama only needs 227 of the remaining 550.5 delegates, or 41.3%, to win the nomination.

Clinton's best-case scenario still overwhelmingly favors Obama. So yes, the outcome of the nomination campaign is now a foregone conclusion.

Update: Yes, Florida probably won't be seated as is, and I probably should not have written that it would be. Still, that is why this is Clinton's best-case scenario. And it ain't very good.

Update 2: The Clinton campaign rejects the proposal, which isn't surprising because it puts her nowhere near the nomination. However, considering its backers, most of whom are Clinton people, I still say that something better than this for Clinton is extremely unlikely.

Chris Bowers :: Clinton's Best Case Scenario

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regardless of the final proposals be both states (4.00 / 1)
I doubt either will be seated at full strength. the RBC will maintain some sanction, perhaps a half-vote penalty, perhaps a quarter-vote penalty. Perhaps only for pledged delegates. Although it would be much fairer if the sanction were on superdelegates alone.

exactly. (0.00 / 0)
I should have placed my comment below as a reply here, since you've isolated the sore spot for me.    Why on earth would the avg voter get spanked and superdels feel no consequences?

[ Parent ]
The DNC has to sanction them somehow. (4.00 / 1)
Cut em in 1/2 and then allocate them as proposed.  

Florida won't be seated as is (0.00 / 0)
I agree with the previous posters. There should be and will be some significant penalty for these states moving up. Giving their delegates 1/2 votes seems the simplest solution.

why? (0.00 / 0)
Once the Obama campaign feels sure that the number of delegates involved will not affect the nomination, they have no reason not to support seating the full number of delegates.  Their interest: 1) winning the nomination; 2) winning the GE.  Maintaining order for the 2012 primaries isn't even on their radar screen.  The only reason they have for opposing seating the full delegations would be if that could make them lose the nomination.  The "rules" are irrelevant.

[ Parent ]
The internal logic of her campaign doesn't require any lead (4.00 / 1)
of any kind in any category until the convention.

It requires an external shock to the race, something like Rev. Wright unveiling photos of a naked Obama in a hottub, doing lines with Nation of Islam bodyguards in the background.

That would do it. That's what she's waiting for.

She's in it to win it.


Why do the Superdels get any? (0.00 / 0)
Justice and fairness are not the same as the old chestnut goes.    I wonder what it would be like if Obama allowed MI and FL to seat the dels as-is, as long as the supers are denied.  For both states, the supers should be held accountable for the FAIL, while the voters can feel justified.  

Obama can get some airtime for talking right to the voters and tell them they are getting the respect they deserve, and take away a major HRC talking point for the next few weeks.   The most the Clinton camp could do then is defend the elites in that case.   Give 'em enough rope, etc.

And in terms of strategy, the supers scare me more than a delta of twenty dels in MI.

I'm all for Obama, so from this standpoint is this insane or am I merely delusional?


Who makes up the May 31 Rules Committee (0.00 / 0)
I may have missed this in a previous post, and I apologize if I'm asking for information to be repeated.  In the past Chris talked about a decision on FL and MI after the voting finished, say sometime in mid-June, and the Rules Committee that would make this decision would be comprised of delegates in proportion to the number of pledged delegates Clinton and Obama (and Edwards I guess) had won in the DNC sanctioned contests.  Thus, we always knew FL and MI would be decided according to Obama's will.  Won't there still be a couple contests left as of May 31 (SD, PR, maybe MT)?  So, who will be on the Rules Committee that makes the May 31 decision on FL and MI?  Can we still assume it will be an Obama-run committee?

rules (0.00 / 0)
I've gotten confused on this as well. There are really two committees. There's the "rules & bylaws" committee which meets May 31st, and then there is the credentials committee which meets sometime in June. The makeup of the rules & bylaws committee is already known, and there are more HRC supporters on it than Obama supporters. But there are a lot of "unaffiliated" people on it as well.

If a candidate doesn't like what comes out of the rules committee, heshe can appeal it to the credentials committee. The makeup of the credentials committee will likely favor Obama, since usually the preson who has the most delegates has more people on that committee than the person with a lesser amount of delegates. However, there will still be 25 members on that committee that are appointed by Dean.

If candidate doesn't like what happens at the credentials committee, heshe can then appeal it to the full DNC. What happens at that stage is something I do not know.


[ Parent ]
What happens at that stage... (0.00 / 0)
If candidate doesn't like what happens at the credentials committee, heshe can then appeal it to the full DNC. What happens at that stage is something I do not know.

...is a floor-fight on the first day of the convention culminating in a vote of the entire body on which proposal (the official one from the Credentials Committee or a minority report, most likely from Clinton supporters on the committee calling for both delegations to be seated as-is) to accept.  At that point, the delegations will be seated/not seated depending on the outcome of the vote, and business will continue as usual.

This last happened to the Democrats in 1972, although similar floor-fights on delegate rules also occupied the first night of the Democratic Convention in 1980 and the Republican Convention in 1976.  The fact that each of these parties went on to lose in November should be a sobering reminder to us now.


[ Parent ]
Credentials vs. Rules Committees (0.00 / 0)
If I understand correctly, on May 31st, it is the Rules Committee of the DNC that is meeting.  They are basically hearing an appeal of their original decision to not allow any MI and FL representation.  At some level, the committee looks pretty pro-Clinton, but they are probably also "pro-Rules."  At this point, everyone seems to expect some kind of compromise on both states.

Later in the summer, the Credentials Committee will meet.  This is the body that Chris Bowers has discussed before, comprised of delegates roughly in proportional to state pledged delegates, plus 25 members appointed by Dean.  Either candidate could take a dispute to the Credentials Committee.

I think it is correct to think of the Rules Committee as setting the rules under which delegations are selected and the Credentials Committee dealing with disputes about actual proposed delegations.  In addition, a credentials fight could be taken to the floor of the convention (I think this happened as recently as 1980.)  

I don't expect any of these details to matter.    


[ Parent ]
Credentials vs. Rules Committees (0.00 / 0)
Thanks boomersun and Esbey.  That clarifies it for me.  I too don't expect it to matter much.  My rabidly pro-Clinton father (he thinks she should run as an independent is she loses) has a habit of pulling "facts" out of you-know-where when discussing this campaign and I wanted to know the actual details.  I'm sure he'll be telling me that May 31 will end up with all the FL and MI delegates going to Clinton and I at least wanted to be able to explain the true process.  Thanks again.  

[ Parent ]
It is also Obama's Best case (0.00 / 0)
A magnanomus dramtic gesture right now would probably seal the deal beyond doubt. And take the bitterness down several notches.
Do it now while it still means something.

Popular Vote Question (0.00 / 0)
I haven't heard anyone address this question so I hope some of you can. If Michigan and Florida delegates are seated in some sort of compromised fashion, how are we suppose to interpret their popular vote totals? For example, if Michigan is seated 50/50, do we divide up all the votes cast on that day and give half to Clinton and half to Obama? What about if the pledged delegates is cut in half, and then awarded. How would we divide up the popular vote then?

Question Chris (4.00 / 1)
Why do you have Hillary with a 20 SD lead when RCP has her with only and 11 SD lead?

adding in (4.00 / 1)
the roughly 100 or so pledged delegates projected from the last 6 primaries and the Pelosi Club (which are assured at this point, I believe), Obama would need 128 of the remaining 450, or 28.4%, of the remaining delegates.  And if the SD spread is more like 13 and not the 20.5 you suggest, it's more like 26.8%.

Insert shameless blog promotion here.

Let's be clear about Clinton's goal (4.00 / 1)
As much as I'm a mediator IRL, I also have had to weigh what Clinton's goals are. My best guess is, in order, they are.

1) Use every argument, no matter how absurd, to win this.

2) If that fails, winning in 2012 becomes paramount; the odds are way slimmer for her in 2016.

Therefore, I suspect her goal, after losing this primary, is to be able to say "I told you so" in November, after an Obama loss. She doesn't want to face a Dem incumbent in 2012.

Sorry if that sounds cynical; I consider it pragmatic.

Thus I reject any magnanimous gesture by Obama that surrenders delegates. I don't think she really wants Obama to win in the general, even though she may outwardly appear to be supportive.

I think it's ingrained in Bill and Hillary to win for the Clintons, above all. And politically, the smartest magnanimous move if Obama DOES become President is to appoint Hillary to the Supreme Court.

She'd be great at that, and then the animosity could finally end.


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