Hillary Clinton's Massive Error

by: Matt Stoller

Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 15:10


So what's with the debate over lobbyists?  Well, I've lived in DC for a little less than two years, and I know plenty of them at this point.  They aren't all bad people.  But I always come back to an experience I had a few months ago when talking to a Goldman Sachs employee who funds a centrist think tank.  We got into a discussion about Goldman's green strategy fund, and I asked him why there wasn't closer collaboration with environmental groups that want to move capital towards green industries.  He argued that Goldman wants no influence over public policy.  I asked him why Goldman hires lobbyists, and he answered, with a straight face, that they hire lobbyists to 'educate the public and decision-makers about the consequences of their public policy choices'.

That, to me, is the culture of lobbying.  Individual lobbyists may be worth defending, but that is what lobbying means to the public.  And with that, let's go to Hillary Clinton at Yearlykos.

I was quite surprised by Senator Clinton's presence.  I've written that Clinton is a brilliant and charismatic politician who does not really share our values but is able to use rhetoric to mislead liberals about her positioning.  I thought she was ahead and was going to march to the nomination quite easily, making no mistakes, taking no risks, and facing little to no criticism from her opponents.  The race had become so static that it was just boring, a representation of a political system run by elites who only want to tinker around the edges (otherwise known as a 'new kind of politics').

But I think Clinton screwed up pretty badly and showed her insider elite mindset, and did it on video where it can be exploited by other candidates.  Her most significant screw-up was the flub on lobbyists where she defended the profession.  Keeping union-buster Mark Penn on staff as chief strategist is one thing, but overtly making the argument that lobbyists are people too, you know, and doing it on video, is brutal.  Edwards has now used this argument to go after the whole Clinton legacy.

Democratic presidential contender John Edwards on Monday criticized former President Clinton, arguing that he allowed corporate insiders to shape the 1993 North American Free Trade Agreement that has cost U.S. jobs.

Edwards' complaints about the former president beloved by voters in his own party was a defiant move meant to highlight rival Hillary Clinton's relationship with special interests.

It comes two days after Clinton refused Edwards' challenge to stop taking campaign donations from lobbyists, saying many represent good causes.

Obama also went after her with a clever line about how corporations don't spend billions in lobbying fees to promote the public interest (except for Goldman Sachs, of course).  In one sense, Clinton is correct; lobbyists are people too, and social workers and puppies and kittens have lobbyists.  But 'lobbyist' is code name for a whole culture, and she has revealed herself as tied into it completely.

There were three other moments that I think were significant.  In the break-out session, she refused to answer a question about whether she'd repeal the Telecom Act of 1996, saying that you should 'ask Al Gore' since she had nothing to do with the legislation as first lady.  It was a poor response, because the question was about what she would do not what Al Gore did.  This was followed by a refusal on state to answer a question about media consolidation and the Wall Street Journal.

The other moment was when she was asked whether we are safer since 9/11, and she responded by saying that we are safer in the sense that Americans before 9/11 would never have consented to taking off their shoes and getting searched at airports.  This unwitting revelation about her views on the increased need for artificial 'security theater', the notion that violations of our rights makes us safer, needs further examination, debate, and exposure.

Splicing all the video together, or her flubbing the lobbyist line, refusing to answer the media consolidation question, and avoiding responsibility for media policy by telling people to ask Al Gore, would be devastating. 


UPDATE:  And Obama goes after her.

Matt Stoller :: Hillary Clinton's Massive Error

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This is encouraging (0.00 / 0)
If HC can be effectively exposed as being pro-plutocracy,
perhaps this will have a chilling affect on other would-be triangulators and perhaps open the way for another wave of candidates (Wes Clark, "the new" Al gore)

"insider elite mindset" (0.00 / 0)
pot/kettle/black?

I you want health care, work hard. If you want universal health care, vote for liberals.

Who are you referring to? (0.00 / 0)
The other candidates, or us? Because one thing I will say about bloggers, even the semi-famous "elite" ones, is that we are in no way insiders, and the standard of living that comes from being a blogger is hardly "elite." 

[ Parent ]
explanation (0.00 / 0)
I was referring to the author but I take your point to heart.  I disagree that this was a massive error on Clinton's part. It is an error to the ears to the typical blogger who have very negative feelings about the Washington establishment and influence peddling. Normal people who aren't necessarily well off currently or growing up are more concerned with someone who will reliably get something done that to benefit them and whole the country. This is why Clinton gets plenty of support outside the blogosphere but not necessary in it. Democrats as a whole think Clinton will be a reliable president.

From my perspective nearly all the candidates had the same view: there are some good lobbying groups that represent regular people but most of the lobbying groups are perhaps not representative of the people. Edwards took money from lobbyists and pretends it is alright if the lobbyists aren't based in Washington. He does say that he wants public financing of elections which particular people may or may not support.

I you want health care, work hard. If you want universal health care, vote for liberals.


[ Parent ]
The breakouts were a good indicator (4.00 / 1)
of how the candidates really felt about the people. Obama and Edwards took questions from their massive rooms, yet Peter Daou had to hand select the questions. One assumes that Paul Hogarth just slipped through the cracks.

And "ask Al Gore"? WTF does that even mean? Is it a jab at Gore on the Republican Big Lie on the invention crap? Or is it her just saying that she has no freaking clue how the telecom act has completely failed us? My guess is that it is the combination of the two.

Both Obama and Edwards understand that the public doesn't want the same ol'. Now, I'm not sure if they are really the antidote, but either would be an improvement over 8 years of Clintonian rule. And oh, I like to see the two of them working in concert to bash Hillary. It works for me.

Calitics.com: The progressive community blog for California.


Peter did not handselect the questioner-A canard (0.00 / 0)
The people who chose to go to her breakout were people who either like her already or were open to her and wanted to learn more (like the 3 women behind me) and so were actually predisposed to ask substantive questions.  I am assuming that in the breakouts for the other candidates that was the case as well.

It is quite credible that there weren't that many folks who were there for a gotcha question...by the way I think I sat next to Paul and that was his purpose.

Why aren't you complaining that there weren't gotcha "challenging questioners at the other breakouts.

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


[ Parent ]
Er... I can't speak to other candidates' breakout sessions (4.00 / 1)
but Edwards was thrown quite a few curveballs. He took a question from an atheist on religious language in politics and one from a death penalty opponent on why he supports the death penalty, to name a couple.

Join us at the Missouri community blog Show Me Progress!

[ Parent ]
Breakout sessions (0.00 / 0)
Is there a place to go to which has the transcripts or videos of these sessions?

[ Parent ]
Edwards Breakout Session (0.00 / 0)
http://dominantreali...

I don't have the formatting on this site down yet,  but that (above) should be a link to the Edwards breakout session.


[ Parent ]
who else was asked to repeal the 1996 Telecom Act? No one. (0.00 / 0)
I was at the breakout with Clinton  Sure the Al Gore question was snarky....it was his baby then and I am sure that there a large parts of it that the newer Al Gore now regrets.  I thought then it was a horrible bill which would lead to the intensification of media consolidation we are seeing now. At the time though I neither heard nor read  a murmur from lots of people about it, though I am sure the folks at The American Prospect probably had not much good to say about it.

But she said more than that comment.She made no statement commending it nor did she say she wouldn't repeal it. However she did she didn't know enough about the issue to comment comfortably without giving it more study and thought.  . So why don't we give her some information to study and think about?  Why don't we give all the other candidates the same thing as well?

I think that none of the other presidential candidates know the issue enough in detail to talk about its provisions either, whether it should be amended or scrapped. But they weren't asked so they haven't had this supposed gotcha moment. I hope that they too are honest enough to say I don't talk about issues I haven't studied enough to have a sound opinion.

Her comment about lobbyists was bad.  But honestly,  having at times been a lobbyist for NARAL/NY (when we had no staff) I agree they are not all evil.  Nor do I think that not taking money from them alone, but instead taking the money that the lobbyist can funnel to you through individual donations is all that cleaner. Maybe only John Edwards would truly disregard the bad lobbyist in an Edwards administration. ( Of course there is still cCongress) Nevertheless it was a very poor response.

But I think the response by the audience to her statement... that those who know her know she has principles was just an insult. All the candidates have principles...and though many may not realize it but she touts the Democratic party and its principles more than most of them...and paricularly the one who is so busy appealling to independents that he forgets to use the the big d Democrat word. 

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


I did (0.00 / 0)
So why don't we give her some information to study and think about?  Why don't we give all the other candidates the same thing as well?

I did.  I gave her campaign information about the public airwaves two months ago.  Peter Daou just didn't get me an answer.  This is true with Obama's campaign as well.  Josh Orton couldn't get me an answer.

I love you, Deb, but there are times when your candidate deserves criticism.  I think that criticism will make her stronger.


[ Parent ]
Criticism does make you stronger (0.00 / 0)
And so I will push it and let's see if after that breakout session Peter can push it. She did encounter it there and now in this post as well.  Because if any Democrat wants to successfully do the people's business thay have to undo parts of the legislation dealing with media consolidation. 

I am an old fashioned liberal who does believe in regulation rather than competition as oftimes the only way to make sure that the common good is looked after.  Too many, in the political establishemnt and even in this community think that "more competition" is the way to get media diversity.  I do some, but only up to a point. The conservative pushback in the 70's started with their assault on government regulation as both evil and  ineffective. Jimmy Carter bought into it.  I think we need to reconsider it. To Big Business and small business, the purpose of competiton is not some steady state, but rather to keep enlarging thier own sphere of influence so as to eliminate the competition, not live with it in peace and harmony.

Undoing this bill in the right way I think would mean some disaggregation of the present media empires.  Getting that from Congress would be very hard ---and it's not just lobbyists as some would say but a mindset,  a metaphor that is still too prevalent even amongst the left...We should have a metaphor about ideas prevailing the the COMMON SQUARE AND NOT THE MARKETPLACE.  Meida consolidation is not just the right of the speaker (holder of the media property) to speak, but it is also the right of the audience ( the people) to hear. 

I did mean it that in 1996 when the Telelcom Act was being passed I was horrified and ....lonely.  There was next to no warnings or discussions in the media.  There was no one in my private world to rant about it with...and that is why I am so thrilled with this community.

And I love you too Matt.

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller


[ Parent ]
Hold Republicans to the same standard (0.00 / 0)
Beating up Hillary Clinton or John Edwards or Bill Richardson or Barack Obama without making the point that Republicans are far worse is self-defeating.  Fred Thompson wasn't just a recipient of lobbyist money; Fred was a lobbyist.  This administration has openly been in the pocket of many lobbying groups.  Keep this one sided shooting squad up and Democrats lose their advantage on corruption.

[ Parent ]
Lobbyists (0.00 / 0)
I'm thinking that some enterprising members of the leftblogs should start a lobbyist firm. We'd lobby for individuals for 'real Americans': say, to get Chris Bowers health care. We'd lobby to get someone else a job. We'd lobby the federal government to find another person housing. All as a commentary on lobbying and Clinton, of course.

The Real Americans Lobby. Because Lobbyists Work For -You-.


Her "scars" (0.00 / 0)
It makes you wonder if she has any idea what she is talking about when she says she tried to reform Health Care and "has the scars to prove it".  The optimist hears that and says she will know best how to navigate those difficult waters this time out, but she seems intent on pushing a much more cynical view of her experience that she's not going to try to take on that opposition again.  And by stating so, she has given Obama and Edwards the chance to use her former experience against her and toward their ends.

I think the general voting public does not get heavily involved in the particulars of government corruption and lobbyists.  Their view is succinctly "they all stink". But that doesn't mean they don't care about the difference between someone who is promising to try to change the system (even if they cynically don't believe him) and someone who has just given up.  Hillary has given up to the point of now defending the indefensible. 

But even greater than this Lobbyist Error is the 9/11 one.  It displays not only a tremendous lack of comprehensive knowledge of the complexity of the security issues which face this country, but also a complete lack of understanding the general public.  We don't feel safe because we take our shoes off at an airport - that is a constant reminder of how the world has changed and our security invaded.  When we don't have to take our shoes off, then you can take to me about security. 

To even talk in such terms shows an inexperience and naivety which frankly is mind-boggling.  I read this diary shortly after watching the Obama Woodrow Wilson Foundation speech in its entirety, the one people have tried to twist into a sound-bite gaffe.  Hearing Hillary's attempt to paper over issues with phrases which don't hold up to a minute's thought, should remind us to push this medium of internet blogging to be a place we can present issues and candidates' stands in a depth which goes way beyond the programming time and copy space constraints of the MSM.  I urge everyone to take 15 minutes to listen to his speech completely as it will be a major focal point of discussion between the candidates in tomorrow's debate and the one coming up on the 19th.

http://www.barackoba...


Behind the curtain (4.00 / 1)
In an electoral politics sense, Clinton's lobbyist answer approached brilliance: she managed to slide away from the underlying issue while she twisted it into a "why can't we all just get along" moment. If this were a speech at the Dem convention the cameras would have cut away to a montage of sobbing nurses, social workers, and soldiers. How can you argue against such people having a voice? Why, it was almost populism!

And yet if you follow the logic of the statement, she was defending a practice that's the exact opposite of "listening to all the people". She was talking about taking money from anybody. In other words, she'll listen to whoever gives her the cash. I'm not suggesting that that's what she does or would do. But I think she did reveal that she's so beltway that the difference between listening to the people and paying attention to lobbyists no longer registers in her world -- that her instinctive reflex is, democracy means you pay and we listen.

For me the problem has nothing to do with any personal corruption -- I don't think there's an issue there. The problem lies in the perception she's adopted of the right and natural way for politics to work.


Question (4.00 / 1)
I support and agree with a lot of what you have said here. But haven't you worked with and for various lobbyists? How do you personally justify that with the insider/outsider dichotomy?

And then doesn't the problem more come down to corporate lobbyists over lobbyists for grassroots organizations like the  AFL-CIO, the Sierra Club, etc.?


My Problem (0.00 / 0)
Lobbyists really can be good people. A close friend of mine used to work for an environmental lobbying group, and she's still a good person. Lobbyists provide valuable information to candidates and politicians on certain issues that might not even be on the radar, and, as Clinton says, they're one of our voices in Washington.

But here's my problem: The challenge was to reject lobbyist money. Lobbyists are an essential part of politics, but do they lose their other values if you stop taking their money? Having someone contribute money while at the same time directly lobbying for some cause moves way too close to bribery for me.

I don't mind if Senator Clinton still associates with lobbyists and still uses them. But can't she stop taking their money?


damn (0.00 / 0)
this is a good blog... just had to throw that in there - well done, well stated.

Hillary and Lobbyists (0.00 / 0)
I think Hillary made a mistake with her answer concerning lobbyists.  I happen to believe that accepting money from such people and groups is a continuation of exactly the kind of politics Americans have become sick to death of.  I have no problem with corporations making money.  I have nothing at all against Capitalism, but I am very much against rampant Capitalism.  I believe there always must be some controls in place to make sure there is a fair distribution of the nation's wealth, rather than a plutocracy where the vast majority of the citizens are creating the wealth for the tiny 1% of the wealthy.

I am an American citizen living in Canada.  Canadian politics has banned all corporate money from political campaigns.  There is a limit on individual contributions and there are no PACS.  This was not always the case, but since these changes were made, our elections have become far more honest and the campaigns are far more issues oriented rather than engaging in the politics of personal destruction.

I would love to see all the Democratic candidates accept Mr. Edwards challenge to refuse any and all lobbyist contributions.


Interesting how this happened at YK07 (0.00 / 0)
I was there.  Clinton tried to wiggle out of it and wouldn't have been as transparent had many of us and Bai noticed that she didn't raise her hand when all of the candidates were asked if they would take lobbyist money. That was her big mistake.  I was glad Bai called her on it.

Yes, it's true that some lobbyists are there as voices for people, but given Big Dawg was talking at the DLC that same weekend, we know she takes big money from anyone, including corporate lobbyists.  She is so power hungry and I still think her campaign is about Hillary Clinton...not about the American people.

She was uncomfortable with the bloggers...that was pretty clear.  One person at my table commented how she appeared angry during most of the forum.  I'm not certain Clinton was angry, but I did notice from reviewing the video that she moved one of her feet like a cat's tail when it is unsure.


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