Needed: A Kickass Woman Politician Archetype

by: Matt Stoller

Wed May 28, 2008 at 18:21


I just read a new paper out by Jennifer Lawless and Richard Fox titled 'Why Are Women Still Not Running for Public Office?'.  Right now, America is 84th in the world in terms of percentage women in our legislature, with a whopping 16.3% of our seats in the House and Senate held by women.  That is not only below Uganda, Burundi, and Cuba, it is lower than the international average itself.

Why is this?  It's not, as Lawless and Fox note, because it is harder for women to win than men.  And it's not because qualified women don't exist  The problem is just that women don't seem to think they should or can run compared to men of similar demographic status and accomplishment.  Part of this is cultural, and part of it is infrastructure, as women just aren't recruited as often as men (organizations like EMILY's List and She Should Run are set up to deal with this problem).

One of the consequences of this cultural problem is that progressive citizens run less than their share of the population, and conservatives run disproportionately higher than their share of the population.

Women in the sample, on average, are three years younger than men, a probable result of the fact that women's entry into the fields of law and business is a relatively recent phenomenon. Further, women are more likely to be Democrats and liberal-leaning, while men are more likely to be Republicans and conservative, a finding consistent with recent polls showing a partisan gender gap among the general U.S. population.

This pattern of who runs drives how progressive our politics is quite directly.  If you look at the caucus, and Chris and I did last week, you'll see the pattern instantly.

Men Women Black White Latino White Males Non-white or non-male Total
Progressives 48 23 28 35 8 20 51 71
% 68% 32% 39% 49% 11% 28% 72% 100%
New Democrats 44 14 4 53 1 38 20 58
% 76% 24% 7% 91% 2% 66% 34% 100%
Blue Dogs 42 6 2 42 4 37 11 48
% 88% 13% 4% 88% 8% 77% 23% 100%
Republican Caucus 179 20 0 193 6 173 26 199
Republican Caucus 90% 10% 0% 97% 3% 87% 13% 100%

The more women in office, the more progressives in office.  There's good news in the report - since 2001, there has been an uptick in women doing the things that precede running for office, such as building a fundraising network and being recruited for office.  And women are inspired across parties by women in positions of power such as Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, and Condoleeza Rice.  In the Republican Party, 17 percent of women, compared to 4 percent of men find Hillary Clinton 'inspirational'.

I think the core challenge for progressive activists is to tell the story of the tough female progressive - the Donna Edwards and Darcy Burner versus the hypermale Jim Webb.  It is a huge paradox that the archetypes we celebrate most - soldier, police officer, hard-nosed prosecutor - are typically good fits for men.  By fitting this narrative, relatively conservative Democrats in swing or even blue districts like Ashwin Madia, Adam Cote, and Jon Powers skew our politics to the right like Brad Ellsworth and Joe Donnelly in 2006 did, while progressive older women like Leslie Byrne - who really got Jim Webb rolling with her early endorsement of him back in 2006 - have less raw material to work with.  It should be quite obvious that the route to progressive change lies with more candidates like Leslie Byrne, Donna Edwards, Darcy Burner, and Sam Bennett, and fewer men like Al Wynn, Joe Sestak, Jim Webb, Jon Tester, Brad Ellsworth and Chris Carney.

Tough, kick-ass, no-nonsense women are a new and fresh way to say 'progressive'.  It was nurses who took down Schwarzenegger, and it is women who can break down the 'good ole boys' network that still dominates Congress today.  Now it's up to us to start telling their stories.

UPDATE:  Northcountry offers this significant comment on Madia.

MN-03 is a great example of this.  A strong female state senator (and a life-long democrat)who first ran for state office in 2005 by running and winning in a republican legislative district lost in the congressional endorsement process to an ex-Marine who was a John McCain volunteer in 2000 and a big supporter of Bob Dole in 1996.

You tell me who's going to be more supportive of progressive issues like universal healthcare, reproductive rights, and education and job training initiatives; especially in coaltion with a broad-based progressive movement.

Madia just wants to reduce the deficit and leave 20,000 or 30,000 troops in Iraq.  Its great that he's on our side and will contribute to a democratic majority, but does he really advance progressive policies and values?

I'll note that Madia was supported by the netroots and activists over Bonoff.  While I don't know the race particularly well, I don't see why someone like Madia, who wants to keep 20-30k troops in Iraq, should be considered particularly progressive, and I don't know why activists should be proud of this one, unless your only standard is that your guy 'won'.  20-30k troops in Iraq is a really bad idea that will lead to lots of death and mayhem.  

Matt Stoller :: Needed: A Kickass Woman Politician Archetype

Tags: , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
Jon Powers? (0.00 / 0)
Really? He's being enthusiastically boosted by local blogs and also DFA as far as I remember. Do you really think he's unacceptably conservative?

I blog on InnermostParts.org

not necessarily (0.00 / 0)
He is just A LOT more conservative than people realize.

[ Parent ]
Define "A LOT" more conservative... (4.00 / 2)
I'm curious. Once you give me an idea, I'll issue a proper reply regarding Powers.

Is he a full-blown liberal? Definitely not.

Is he a full-blown conservative? Definitely not.

He is, by all indications, a moderate.

But I will give you a fair chance to clarify.  

There's no such thing as illegal immigration. But there are illegal wars...


[ Parent ]
Those celebrated archetypes (4.00 / 2)
are typically good fits for conservatives, too. I imagine that's the problem; our culture celebrates and rewards 'macho' in positions of power. Even your descriptions of the kinds of progressive women we need--tough, kick-ass, no-nonsense--are macho. And I actually wonder if another part of the story we should tell is one that jibes better with a more traditionally feminine archetype of power.

It's a national embarrassment, but I'm not really sure what's to be done beyond supporting EMILY's list and She Should Run.

(And as it happens, I voted for a male candidate in the primary over a female candidate whom I find close on the merits, so I'm not sure I oughtta really chime in. Also, I'm currently working to remove a woman in office, and replace her with a man.)


Senator Patty Murray from Washington State (4.00 / 4)
The Mom in Tennis Shoes good be a good archetype.

Carol Mosley Braun comes to mind too.  


[ Parent ]
Murray is great (4.00 / 2)
what's with Washington State producing so many great women leaders? Murray, Cantwell, Burner.

She's also a little too old to have much of a future outside the Senate so hopefully she takes Burner under her wing and then maybe we will see a Darcy Burner for President campaign at some point. Darcy is only 37 so she has a bright future ahead.

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power


[ Parent ]
It's the west coast (0.00 / 0)
California not only produced a woman Speaker of the House but also two US Senators, and 20 US House members (19 of the 20 are Democrats).

Hawaii has a woman in the House (one of 2) and as Governor (a Republican).  One of Alaska's two Senators and their Governor are women (both Republicans).  Washington state has two women Senators, a woman Governor (all Democrats) and one of 9 House members (a Republican).  Oregon has no Senators, no Governor and one House member who is retiring.

California Democrats do not run enough women for the Republican seats.  Excluding Mary Bono Mack's seat, 8 of the 18 Republican-held seats have only male Democratic candidates; 2 have only female Democratic cndidates (CA-24, CA-25).  In most of the remaining eight seats, the best known candidate is a male.  The one targeted seat, CA-4, has a male candidate (Chalie Brown).

California lists the number of male and female candidates by party and position on the Secretary of State web site.  For Democrats, males enjoy a small advantage in running for Congress (36 women, 44 men, or 45% female despite a 19-15 edge among incumbents for women) and the state senate (12 women, 15 men, 44% female) but a huge edge in running for the state assembly (36 women,81 men).


[ Parent ]
Amy Klobuchar (4.00 / 1)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...

I hesitate to post this only because I don't want to start any talk of her being the VP nominee with Obama.  We need her in MN to continue to stabilize our Senate delegation which has been in some disarray ever since Paul Wellstone's plane crashed.

It was your "mom in tennis shoes" link that got me thinking about her, too.  Her ability to so seemlessly meld her being a Senator with her family life is one of her strong suits, in my opinion.  It stands in such stark contrast the more male stereotypes where their lives in DC are, somehow, so disconnected from their lives at home (until the campaign ads need to be shot, of course).

Funny how none of the other Minnesotans posting here brought her up.

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Here's an archetype for ya: (from the past) (4.00 / 6)

 barbara jordan

Barbara Jordan 



Electoral rules and what we can do (4.00 / 2)
One of the reasons that many European and Latin American countries place more women into legislatures is that they elect their legislators through proportional representation.  Since parties themselves create lists of candidates, there is a lot of control over the nature of those lists.  In many countries, there are actually either federal or party rules stipulating that women have to make up a certain percentage of the list or have to occupy at least every third or every fourth slot.

Given that we don't have PR and that candidate recruitment is a much more decentralized process, we don't have recourse to that kind of solution.  But that doesn't mean that parties themselves can't take the lead somehow in trying to recruit more women into office.  I haven't thought enough about this problem to really offer a concrete set of suggestions, but it seems like it should be possible - with enough political will - for the national Democratic Party leadership to create some incentives for better female recruitment.  At the least they could start tracking and publicizing the proportion of female democrats in various state legislatures and try to impress on state party leadership that change is necessary.  Some kind of financial incentive system or special fund to back the candidacies of promising women might also be possible.

This is not to dismiss the importance of role models.  But I think a lot of the problem has to do with inertia within the party itself and its unwillingness to go the extra mile on this issue.

John McCain: Health insurance for low income children represents an "unfunded liability."


Great Post Matt (4.00 / 1)
MN-03 is a great example of this.  A strong female state senator (and a life-long democrat)who first ran for state office in 2005 by running and winning in a republican legislative district lost in the congressional endorsement process to an ex-Marine who was a John McCain volunteer in 2000 and a big supporter of Bob Dole in 1996.

You tell me who's going to be more supportive of progressive issues like universal healthcare, reproductive rights, and education and job training initiatives; especially in coaltion with a broad-based progressive movement.

Madia just wants to reduce the deficit and leave 20,000 or 30,000 troops in Iraq.  Its great that he's on our side and will contribute to a democratic majority, but does he really advance progressive policies and values?


You obviously haven't been paying attention (4.00 / 5)
Electing a Democrat from that district who is going to be to the left of your average House Dem, like Madia, really does "advance progressive policies and values."

He's for universal health care, renewables, abortion rights, etc, all the standard Democratic planks.  He's certainly not going to be some sort of Bush Dog.  Also, lest we forget, Ash is only 30.  He was 22 when he volunteered on McCain 2000 and was 16 when he was a "big supporter" of Bob Dole.  Policy wise, Ash and Bonoff we're very similar.  It was a very, very close endorsement fight and he barely won.

Forgive me if it looks like a little disingenuous the way you're presenting his past association with the Republicans.  You didn't go through a phase in high school or college that you later gave up and consider laughable today?

Hell, Hillary was a Goldwater Girl in '64, at age 16 until October of that year.  And she didn't just volunteer for Republicans in college, but she was actually president of the Wellesley College Republicans.  Good thing she lost the nomination to someone who has been a Democrat his whole life.


[ Parent ]
Actually he was a college student when he supported Dole (0.00 / 0)
with a strong editorial in The Daily Minnesotan.  

[ Parent ]
I need a link (0.00 / 0)
Because that would mean he was in college when he was 15-16.  Ash is 30 years old.

[ Parent ]
He would have been 18 (0.00 / 0)
Dole ran for president in 1996, 12 years ago, making Madia 18 at the time and probably a college freshman.

"Never separate the life you live from the words you speak" -Paul Wellstone

[ Parent ]
oh, right (4.00 / 1)
Bad math.  I think the point still stands.  I'm sure glad that I'm not held to a standard of my political beliefs from when I was a teenager.

[ Parent ]
Here ya go (0.00 / 0)
In praise of Bob Dole

He's listed as a sophmore at the end of the opinion piece.  If he's 30 now, it would mean he was 18 at the time of the article.  2008 - 1996 = 12

Jigar Madia, a sophomore studyingbiology and business, is Minnesota Student Association Speaker of the Forum.



[ Parent ]
The Minnesota Daily? (4.00 / 2)
Yes. That is true. He was also a sophomore who wasn't studying politics. His views have changed. Have you changed any views in the last 12 years?

The Republicans used old Daily articles to attack Keith Ellison, a strong progressive, in 2006. I hope you didn't believe that Keith held those views still.

Don't we want to convert Republicans into progressive Democrats?

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power


[ Parent ]
Yes we do (4.00 / 4)
But Madia's not a progressive democrat and probably never will be.

My point is not to knock Madia.  It's to continue to draw the distinction between progressives, democrats, and democrats would could or would work well in a progressive coalition.

I'm as much interested in building progressive values and creating progressive change as I am in electing democrats.

Madia should be welcomed and praised for his change of heart and his change inparty changein party ID. As should other republicans who have come over.  But creating a progressive future is not going to be done by turning the democratic party into a haven for liberal - moderate republicans who want to run for office but have no home in the republican party anymore.  


[ Parent ]
Huh? (4.00 / 2)
Bonoff was a very conservative state senator who ran on a slogan of "Uniting the Middle". She is a former big biz exec and was backed by the entire establishment. She took conservative and careful positions and so Madia ran a grassroots campaign, won the support of progressive activists and won.  

I guess we have very different views of that race.  

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power


[ Parent ]
Bonoff is a centrist, (4.00 / 1)
not a conservative state senator. And she bucked convention by becoming a very early and vocal supporter of Obama.  She's poor on labor issues, strong on education and healthcare.

The reason I mentioned "in coalition with a progressive movement" is because she's not an instinctual progressive, but she does share common ground with them in certain areas and would be more reliable as a voice for change in an Obama movement then Madia will be (just look at his record of political activism prior to joining the Marines).

And that's the point Matt was making as well as the authors of the study.  Women's participation in elected office tends to lead towards more progressive governance.

The fact remains that she's a life-long democrat who stepped out and took some big risks in her short political career and she lost to an ex-marine who moved into the district afer the incumbent decided not to run. And that grassroots you're talking about?  90 or so delegates at a congressional district convention is all he had to convince.  There are a lot more voters than the 90 or so hardcore activists out there.  


[ Parent ]
Dude, come on (4.00 / 2)
It's perfectly ok to prefer Bonoff to Madia.  That's totally cool.  But you don't have to be so disingenuous about it:

she lost to an ex-marine who moved into the district afer the incumbent decided not to run.

You must mean "move back".  He is from Plymouth, grew up and went to high school there and everything.  And he was living in Minneapolis at the time because it was, gasp, closer to the law firm he was working for.  By the standard you're setting up you'd have some sort of problem with Al Franken.  Or Hillary Clinton, for that matter.


[ Parent ]
He actually spent only 2-3 years as a high schooler in the district (0.00 / 0)
And he moved into the district from Minneapolis after Congressman Ramstad announced his retirement.  

When he moved back to Minnesota after his service in the corps to take a job a law firm he didn't move into the district.  He moved into Minneapolis.  


[ Parent ]
Fine (4.00 / 1)
If you want to split hairs about the details, whatever.  The language you're using to describe how he came to be the candidate infers that he is some sort of carpetbagger.  He is not.  I live in CD 4,but I grew up in CD 2.  My parents and my brother live there.  If I moved back to Waconia someday to run for the seat, would I be some sort of impostor?  Does that disqualify me?

[ Parent ]
He is a carpetbagger and an opportunist (0.00 / 0)
He's also a democrat and the endorsed candidate for MN-03.  He's one of us now, warts and all.  

[ Parent ]
Does that also apply to (0.00 / 0)
Al Franken?  That' pretty much been the M$M, Coleman, Ventura characterization of him.  I take it you agree?  

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."


[ Parent ]
Fair enough (4.00 / 2)
they are both pretty much center-left. However I found Madia to be have more left and Bonoff to have more center. Bonoff  is one of the most conservative members of the DFL Senate caucus. Yes she supports Obama, but so does Ben Nelson. That doesn't mean you are a progressive (I say this as a active member of Draft Obama and precinct captain for him in Minnesota).

As a very young student Ashwin Madia was a Republican. I am not going to argue with that. However, David Brock was a liberal Democrat before entering college. Then he turned into a key member of the conservative movement and a hardline neocon. Does that make Media Matters a unreliable movement group? Not by my standards. I care what people think about stuff NOW.

I am totally with you, the studies authors and Matt on women. I'm a member of EMILY's List, Minnesota Women's Campaign Fund and MWPC and a avid reader of the Minnesota's Womens Press despite being a male. However I am also a progressive. After talking with both candidates, listening to all the candidate forums, reading the issues section of their websites and talking to fellow activists I found Ashwin Madia to be a more progressive candidate by a pretty good margin over Bonoff.

She had a slightly better plan for Iraq, yes. However I found Madia to be better on systematic issues (media reform, election reform, campaign finance reform), labor issues, environmental issues, LGBT issues and civil liberties and by pretty big margins on many of them.

Those delegates where selected by the precinct caucuses and then the Senate district convention by Democratic activists. The most progressive part of the party. A majority of them where women.

It's clear we don't agree. You pretty clearly were a Bonoff supporter. I backed Madia.

Matt is arguing that beacuse Madia was a vet and Bonoff was a women Bonoff was a more progressive candidate. That is generally true but in this case I don't think it was.

I hope you'll join me in supporting Madia in November. One thing I bet we can agree on is that Erik Paulsen is a right-wing nut.

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power


[ Parent ]
Hell .. (4.00 / 1)
a lot of the scum bag neo-cons like Kristol .. and HoJo .. started off as "Scoop" Jackson Democrats(Yes, he is a hero of the DLC too)

[ Parent ]
Lets be a little more big tent and polite (4.00 / 4)
I dont understand insulting Webb. If you can think of a more progressive man or woman to serve in Virginia, I would love to hear a rationale and a game plan to develop her or him. Just throwing out insults to people who have joined our fight for a whole selection of issues while making a Democrat the Senate Majority Leader is stupid.

For Christ sakes, the 'emerging progressive majority will never be actually here if we keep shooting our friends in the face. A little less fu98U%ing arrogance, a little more faithful gratitude. Yeah I think Webb isnt right for Vice President, but I think he kicked ass in response to Bushes State of the Union.

A more little planning, a little more understanding and a lot less swagger.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


I am curious ... (0.00 / 0)
where has Webb gone off the tracks besides FISA(which I know is a big deal)? ... hell .. as much as a lot of us love Feingold .. even he ain't perfect .. after all didn't Feingold vote to confirm Roberts as a Supreme?

[ Parent ]
Madia as a Cote/Ellsworth type? (4.00 / 7)
Sorry that sticks out for me. Madia is WAY more progressive then either of those people. Yes he used to be a Republican and yes he is conservative on some fiscal issues (in the real sense of the word) but he also talks about Democrats getting a backbone, is for full marriage equality, he's a hardcore civil libertarian, for fair trade in a suburban district, media reform. Stuff like that. He won't be perfect but he will be more of a Brad Miller / Bruce Braley type then a Ellsworth/Donnelly type.

I think Darcy is our best chance at a progressive women type. She could use a little bit more experience but she's also a awesome, progressive person. Hopefully we can get her elected this year and maybe she could run to succeed Chris Gregoire in 2012. I'm not sure if she will ever be a presidential contender but she could certainly become a presidential leader.

And I also think it starts at the grassroots. Progressive Majority is doing great work recruiting a great bench. For example locally we have a awesome women challenging a incumbent Democratic state rep, Peggy Flanagan. She's a Native American, school board member, community organizer, Wellstone Action Staffer, INDN's List state director, Native American Outreach Director for Kerry/Edwards, and all around awesome progressive activist. She has a great chance to win and a great future in politics.  

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power


You troll rated me above (4.00 / 1)
Why?  I don't get it.

[ Parent ]
Whoops (4.00 / 3)
I was trying to give you a four beacuse I thought that was a fantastic comment. Changed.

Sorry.

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power


[ Parent ]
That's what I thought (4.00 / 3)
But I didn't want to be presumptuous.  Thanks.

[ Parent ]
I live in fear of accidentally doing this. (4.00 / 4)
They're just so close together on the pull-down and I'm usually so damn drunk ;-)

[ Parent ]
I have to take umbrage at the comment you've promoted to the front page (4.00 / 3)
I live in the Twin Cities and I have to point out that Madia was clearly the progressive choice in CD 3.  My girlfriend and I both supported Madia from the beginning.  Considering her strong feminist views, that's saying something.  I do not believe that Madia's victory represents a culturally conservative bias towards women.  His victory represented the triumph of progressive Democratic activists in an affluent suburban district.  

oops (4.00 / 1)
I do not believe that Madia's victory represents a culturally conservative bias towards women

errr, against women.  


[ Parent ]
Heh (4.00 / 2)
We think alike.

Agreed. A few people I knew backed Bonoff because they had known her for a long time but other then that Madia got the support. If anything his victory was a classic, netroots/grassroots success story.  

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power


[ Parent ]
yes, it was (0.00 / 0)
Madia is a classic netroots success story, which shows how the netroots is willing to blindly follow along with the strong male archetype instead of actually holding principles.  Someone who wants to keep 20-30k troops in Iraq is not a progressive.  Sorry.

[ Parent ]
Fair enough, if that were the case (4.00 / 2)
From a Minnesota Monitor live blog with Madia:

withdrawal over a period of 18-24 months of US forces, with a force of about 10-20 thousand left in Iraq for three missions:

1.  protecting US State Dep't and USAID workers;
2.  targeting high ranking members of Al Queda; and
3.  in conjunction with other nations, preventing ethnic cleansing.

I want out of Iraq just as much as anyone else, but I believe that we do bear some ownership and responsibility for the situation there given that we invaded and toppled their government.

While less than ideal, he is the best we are going to do in this district for the time being and was certainly the best of the two options at the time.  10-0 is a far cry from 20-30.


[ Parent ]
ok (4.00 / 1)
So now he's less than ideal.  That's my point.

[ Parent ]
But still better than Bonoff overall (0.00 / 0)
That's my point.

[ Parent ]
Isnt it pretty much the same as Obama's plan? (4.00 / 1)
From Obama's Iraq page:

"Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda."

From Madia's Iraq page:

"Our best hope for a resolution to the Iraq war is for the U.S. to reduce its forces on a responsible timeline and to build a political solution to the country's problems. I propose withdrawing our forces over a period of 18-24 months, with a force of about 10,000-20,000 left in Iraq for three missions:

1. protecting U.S. State Department and USAID workers;
2. targeting high ranking members of Al-Qaeda; and
3. in conjunction with other nations, preventing ethnic cleansing."

"Never separate the life you live from the words you speak" -Paul Wellstone


[ Parent ]
What? (4.00 / 1)
You mean Obama isn't a super-progressive candidate who the netroots should follow blindly?!

That will be news to Matt Stoller, I'm sure.

I support John McCain because children are too healthy anyway.


[ Parent ]
Um (4.00 / 3)
And someone who ran to unite the middle and not be a tax and spend liberal is? Bonoff also favored residual forces but wasn't honest about it like Madia. By your definition Bonoff is also not a progressive.

As a Hindu and Indiana-American immigrant Madia is hardly a "strong male archetype".

I've read your work for over a year Matt, OpenLeft is the first site I read every day. But honestly. How did you develop your opinions on this race? Have you talked to local activists? Have you talked to the candidates? Did you listen to the debates or read their position papers? I did and Madia clearly was the more progressive candidate. Is he perfect? No. But the local, progressive activists in the district determined that he was the best choice.

Backing a corporate establishment conservative is not progressive, it is not holding principles and dissing local activists is not going to help build a progressive majority.

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power


[ Parent ]
I made the original comment on Madia and MN-03 (4.00 / 1)
and my point was not to paint Bonoff as some sort of progressive hero.

My point was that in MN-03, a female state senator who's only been in office 3 years and who has run and won in a very challenging republican district lost to an ex-marine attorney who focused on his Iraq experience at every turn.

And that said ex-marine attorney has a very regressive background and is a former republican.

And that Bonoff would be a better fit within  a "progressive coalition". Not that she is a progressive.

It's a perfect example of what Matt is talking about.  

Where Madia actually lands on policy positions, let alone large-scale institutional change, once he's in office will be very interesting.  


[ Parent ]
My point (4.00 / 1)
is that after watching both of them campaign I found Madia to be a more progressive candidate on the issues.

I would hope any "progressive coalition" cared most about policy. Matt has made a good point that women are generally more progressive and generally I would agree. But is Mary Landrieu more progressive then Russ Feingold? No.

I think Madia will be a good representative and at least as progressive as say, Allyson Schwartz. And I will take that any day of the week.

By the way, I think Terri Bonoff is a great person and a great senator for the district and think she would make a great governor someday.

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power


[ Parent ]
And I've reviewed everything on Madia (0.00 / 0)
and I mean EVERYTHING.  And he's no progressive. Nuff said. We have elections to win.  

[ Parent ]
That's exactly right (0.00 / 0)
And if you go back to the November period, you'll see his stand on how many troops to keep in Iraq constantly shifting.

His policy positions kept on shifting as well, as he focused his pitch on the small universe of voters who make up the DFL endorsement process in Minnesota.

The DFL endorsement process is easily manipulated and Madia hit the sweet spot of activist dissatisfaction. However, There's a huge difference between mobilizing to win at DFL conventions and winning a competitive primary in a primary state.  


[ Parent ]
Um, Matt (4.00 / 5)
In the Madia vs Bonoff nomination fight progressive activists backed Madia even more strongly then they do in the Obama/Clinton fight.

Here are a few quotes from of hers from the 2005 race which basically explains why I backed Madia

Claims not to be "a tax-and-spend liberal," citing her business perspective
...

Bonoff said that her campaign slogan, Uniting the Middle, says it all. She will not hesitate to break ranks with her party, to work with both sides of the aisle.

She was pretty much our local Mellisa Bean. The Chamber of Commerce liked those quotes so much they backed her over her Republican opponent.

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power


I have one more thing to say about Madia that I just thought of (4.00 / 4)
Matt,

In your caucus demographic breakdown post where that chart above first appeared you wrote:

So bottom line, for a more progressive Congress, elect women, minorities, and white men who like spending time with women and minorities.

The chart came in handy again for this post, where you're arguing that more women should run for office and that would result in a more progressive caucus.  I wholeheartedly agree.

However, using Madia as an example of a woman being excluded as a result of cultural archetypes doesn't work.  You said:


I think the core challenge for progressive activists is to tell the story of the tough female progressive - the Donna Edwards and Darcy Burner versus the hypermale Jim Webb.  It is a huge paradox that the archetypes we celebrate most - soldier, police officer, hard-nosed prosecutor - are typically good fits for men.  By fitting this narrative, relatively conservative Democrats in swing or even blue districts like Ashwin Madia...skew our politics to the right...while progressive older women like Leslie Byrne - who really got Jim Webb rolling with her early endorsement of him back in 2006 - have less raw material to work with.

Here's the problem, though.  The original article you're referencing to make your point here also includes minorities as part of the key towards building a more progressive caucus.  Madia doesn't fit the conservative white guy narrative because he is Indian.  His parents moved here from Mumbai.

While the argument you have outlined here is correct in my view, I think that using the Madia-Bohoff race as an example of this dynamic is a poor choice.  Madia certainly is not someone who I think reinforces a culturally conservative dynamic in candidate recruitment for House races.  


Indians (0.00 / 0)
Functionally, Madia is white, but I'm no expert on immigration trends.

Any sociologist want to weigh in?


[ Parent ]
Sure, in the broadest national context (4.00 / 1)
Indian may be functionally white.  In this district in Minnesota though, I'm not so sure.  Anyone brown stands out in the the northwest suburbs.  

[ Parent ]
functionally White (4.00 / 2)
can you come up with a better phrase than this?  Those of us who are "functionally White" might find it obnoxious ;) I used "multicultural elite" but it's a bit unwieldy.

By the way, there's a sharp divide in Indian and other South Asian communities by class; not all of us are created the same equal and many are "functionally Black" or "functionally Latino" or really just "fucntionally poor and not White" ;)  


[ Parent ]
Respectfully: That is the dumbest single thing I have ever seen you write. (4.00 / 4)
And that's saying a lot.  

I read almost everything you write, and I come to Open Left every day.  I like reading you more than almost anyone else, anywhere.  So this isn't really coming from a hostile person, though your willingness to reduce your points to extreme simplicity frequently drives me NUTS.

Indian-Americans who grew up in these affluent public school environments (which is who you must be talking about) are not functionally white.  Saying so is a kind of race blindness, projecting your reality onto others.

I went to one of those schools, all my friends were from those exact Indian-American doctor/engineer households.  I used to think they were functionally white, when I was ignorant, and they'd only been my best friends for four or five or six years.

Then when I got to eight or nine or ten years, and my mid-twenties, I realized I was utterly wrong, in about four or five fundamental ways at least.

As just one quick example, these kids typically grow up with foreign-raised parents who don't really understand American culture at all.  So instead of having parents who guide you into the culture, you have parents who mostly fail to grasp it; you get one kind of world in the house, and another one outside it, and neither understands the other, with the kid left alone to live in both.  To illustrate: most of my buddies' parents didn't have any grasp of dating at all, except as a dim and mysterious thing to be discouraged.  I have friends who denied that their relationship even existed for five years, only fessing up when they got engaged at 25.  Having a family that is completely divorced from the wider culture creates a kind of schizoid multiple-reality world that's not much like the white American experience.

And that's not even getting into the having-dark-skin, instant-outsider angle.

I spoke in strong terms because this isn't just an ordinary mistake, it's a particular, pervasive, bad mistake.   It's whiteness, if I'm using the term right; not being able to see the ways that another's experience is diverging from your own.  Thinking that others are having the same experience that I am is a mistake that I was lucky to be led to (somewhat) get over.  Saying that Indians are functionally white, when the context is how identity affects political outlook, suggests that you're totally not seeing the differences in experience.

Anyway, there's my two cents.  Indian families frequently have good jobs, good educations, good income, and the parents speak good English.  That's about where the functionally white part ends.


[ Parent ]
that's not race (0.00 / 0)
That's just immigrant culture - do you think it's any different with someone adjusting to America from, say, Russia?  If you examine trends of cultural consumption, you'd find that Indian-Americans closely map to multicultural elites, and certain white subcultures.

[ Parent ]
I get that upper-middle-class Indians are in a lot of ways similar to upper-middle-class whites. (0.00 / 0)
Again, for most of my life, three-quarters of my friends had names like Ashwin Madia.  I do understand what you're referring to, and it's real.  (Hell, I am the certain white subculture you're talking about... as are you.)

I nonetheless think that "functionally white", when talking about how identity shapes political outlook, is way off the mark.  The sense of "outsider" and Other and the brown skin that instantly and everywhere marks one as not belonging is just fundamentally unlike the white political experience.  Even if they play the same video games we do.

Ashwin Madia has had to walk around Minneapolis his entire life with skin that screams "foreigner" to every white (and black) person he sees.  Neither you nor I nor the Russian guy have that experience.

Anyway, I don't want to beat a dead horse here, I just wanted to clarify: that while I agree with your premise, I don't think it's enough to support your conclusion.

[Incidentally, I do think it would have been enough were we talking about voting behavior.  Do Indians vote like these white subcultures?  Sure.  But would one of them be a congressman just like a white guy?  No way.]


[ Parent ]
according to this logic, Bobby Jindal doesn't fit the conservative White guy narrative either (0.00 / 0)
...and yet he does...

which is why those of us who are NOT white and are progressive or radical are aware that identity is NOT shorthand for "progressive."  It's MUCH more nuanced.


[ Parent ]
You know what Matt, you're anti-vets (2.00 / 2)
Ok, so instantly, this will be pegged as a typical republican-esque attack, but flat out it isn't. I am a life long dem. Always supported dems.

But your post here is an obscenity. You consistently have attacked Democratic Veterans running for congress as Republicans and pro-war. You're a low-brow hack no better than Rush Limbaugh. You mention 3 "archetypal male" candidates. All vets.

You mention prosecutor and police officer as other male tough-guy personas but don't come up with the examples. You come up with three Democratic Vets. Three men who served our nation and are now coming under attack by you nut job because of their service.

That's low.

What you don't mention, is all three are running in Dem primaries against much better financed liberals (2 of whom are the tough women you mention).

There is no polite way to put this, but you're a jackas...

As a veteran, I find your commentary offensive.

Stop trying to take down veterans. The only relief I have in this, is no one cares what you think. You're an elitist washington insider who doesn't provide any real help to these "tough female" candidates you play the role of political hitman for.

Political bullshit aside, exclusively attacking vets running for congress is unAmerican.

You're destroying our party, just to payoff a few favors to other insiders.


He's an insider? (0.00 / 0)
Inside of what? Certainly not the DLC or mainstream pundits inside the beltway.

[ Parent ]
several lies (4.00 / 4)
Dick,

First of all, Eric Massa is awesome, and I originally came into politics because of Wesley Clark.  I did actually participate in raising tens of thousand of dollars for Eric Massa in 2006 and 2008.

Second of all, in terms of tough male personas, I did actually bring up Brad Ellsworth, the sheriff, and Jon Tester, the rancher, but you chose to lie about what I wrote to support your thesis.  Ok, fine.

Third, I didn't call any of them Republicans, as you claimed I did.  Another lie.

Fourth, Adam Cote is against the minimum wage, Jon Powers was anti-choice (though he might have changed his position), and Madia wants to leave troops in Iraq.  That is why I don't think they are particularly good progressive candidates, along with the fact that the whole military as credential led to such disasters as Chris Carney.

Fifth, perhaps few people about my opinion, but you certainly do.

I respect public service.  I do not respect liars like you.


[ Parent ]
Matt... (4.00 / 2)
Jon Powers was anti-choice

Respectfully, just a flat out wrong statement.  


[ Parent ]
This is really uncalled for (0.00 / 0)
Matt is one of the good guys.  Ugly posts like this aren't constructive.  Attitudes like this about legitimate differences are what could potentially tear down the party.

[ Parent ]
Glad to provide evidence to the contrary on Madia (4.00 / 5)
On public education:
Keeping college tuition affordable is essential for helping young people get a good start in life. We can make college more affordable by doubling Pell Grants, increasing funding for Stafford Loans, and helping out those graduates who choose public service jobs through loan forgiveness.

On the economy:

With yet another Bush recession upon us, Washington's short term tax cuts won't fix the root causes of our economic slump: massive trade deficits, reliance on foreign oil, irresponsible federal budgets, and insufficient investment in long term growth.

To restore our economy, we must repair the fundamentals. At the end of the day, our economy will recover when we: balance the budget to strengthen the dollar, decrease the trade deficit through energy independence, provide federal assistance to recover from the foreclosure meltdown, and develop long term economic growth by reversing outsourcing and investing in a green economy.

These statements come from an ex-Marine who speaks proudly of having defended a gay Marine from Don't Ask Don't Tell -- and winning.

Sounds pretty progressive to me.

The way I understand the term "progressive", I think it applies pretty well to Ash Madia.  Perfectly?  No, of course not. Mass-produced drones who toe the party line on every issue wouldn't do very well (as the GOP is finding out the hard way this year). And yes, he disagrees on the best course forward in Iraq, but his end goal -- getting American troops out of harm's way, responsibly turning over control of Iraq to the Iraqis, and ending the blank-check approach to appropriations spending -- are the exact same as the candidates and bloggers who have courageously built the Responsible Plan.

As for the point of this post -- look, Madia won because he was the better candidate.  Plain. And. Simple.  Northcountry and I may argue in person about this, but the simple fact of the matter is that Terri Bonoff did not do the things that were necessary to win, and she misjudged the important theme of the campaign -- her rhetoric said "compromise and bipartisanship" and Madia's said "Change and strong values." Madia came out of nowhere, worked hard and is continuing to work hard, and inspired the caucus-going base who, like it or not, actually weren't duped into supporting a potential Blue Dog.


It's Worth Taking Note Of Women of Color (4.00 / 6)
Here in California, where we have the first black woman heading a legislative body, Karen Bass, we also have the top leadership of the Out Of Iraq caucus, visible in the recent Winter Soldier on the Hill hearings--two black women, Barbara Lee and Maxine Waters, plus the only former welfare mother in Congress, Lynn Woolsey.  We also have State Senator Gloria Romero, who is our Majority Leader (2nd highest rank).

We have some good white women, too.  In addition Woolsey and, of course, Barbara Boxer, we have Secretary of State of Debra Bowen, and an under-appreciated Congresswoman from Baltimore, by way of San Francisco, named Nancy Pelosi.  But to be honest, we would automatically be making great strides for women in general if our women of color were fully appreciated for just how powerful, smart and visionary they are.

We can see the real test in terms of statewide offices, and there the dearth of women is nothing short of scandalous.  Debra Bowen could well be governor someday, and nothing would make me happier.  But we have scads of women of color in this state who have been perfectly qualified and capable of holding statewide office, yet they've virtually never been taken seriously.  This is where we really need to be checking our own selves out.

I, for one, would like to see Barbara Lee take Diane Feinstein's place in the Senate.  Talk about trading up.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


Excellent Point (4.00 / 1)
But to be honest, we would automatically be making great strides for women in general if our women of color were fully appreciated for just how powerful, smart and visionary they are.


[ Parent ]
Amen to that. (4.00 / 2)
I think since Karen Bass will be term limited out in 2010 she would make a fantastic candidate to replace DiFi. I think Lee is fantastic in the House (Although I'd do pretty much anything possible from Minnesota to get her elected if she ran).

Karen Bass is awesome.

Bass for President. Seriously.  

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power


[ Parent ]
i really object to the heuristics used in this post (0.00 / 0)
All else equal, in the aggregate, people who are disempowered by some social hierarchy will probably have more progressive politics than people who are not on the specific issues on which they're disempowered, though not necessarily across the board.  Which is a long winded way of saying that if you want to understand the difference in politics between, say, a wealthy White straight biowoman and a poor White straight bioman, you might want to just look at their politics and sensibilies, rather than taxonomize them according to social categories and draw conclusions from there.

Don't conflate identity and politics unless you REALLY know what you're talking about in detail or are a member of the identity group, because there are always exceptions (Larry Craig is gay, Condoleeza Rice is a woman), there are always intersectionalities to consider (yes, there are queer people of color, poor women, etc.), and a host of other things.

Especially because if we (the silent majority ;) give the same simplistic analysis or something along those lines, we generally get yelled at, sometimes for good reason.


actually, i should have framed this part differently (0.00 / 0)
Don't conflate identity and politics unless you REALLY know what you're talking about in detail or are a member of the identity group

You should say what you feel, and I'm sorry to have implied otherwise (see above for why).  But sometimes questions and openness help more than the kinds of assertions made in this post and the previous one on identity, I think.


[ Parent ]
Would we even know a kick-ass woman politician archetype if (4.00 / 5)
she came up and kicked us square in our asses? I wonder.
What does one of these do without getting labeled 'pushy' or 'unlikeable' or 'too combative' and the like?

I'm no fan of HRC, but doesn't this lie at the heart of her complaint regarding her ongoing, impending loss?

And before this becomes all about Hillary, let's take a look at what has been said about our current crop of female politicians (especially in regards to the VP):
Boxer: Too liberal, too old
Pelosi: Too liberal, too grating, too forceful
Napolitano: Too 'single'
Sebelius: Too bland, too docile

Clinton's best complaint is that there has been a lot of sexism at work in this process. I don't see any way around this. And this is coming from someone who has wholeheartedly supported Obama over Clinton from the start.

I grant that there just aren't nearly enough female candidates to constitute a proper political gene pool and that that plays a factor. But sexism as well has been a significant factor, IMO.


Yes I agree (4.00 / 4)
Given what I've seen for the past six months or so in the national political media, entertainment, and netroots worlds, I don't see how a woman can be a "kick ass political archetype" without scaring a whole lot of remarkably insecure men who are worried about being metaphorically castrated. I mean, it would be funny if it weren't so sad.

More seriously, I think this post is a classic case of relatedness not equaling causation. Yes, there is a relationship between number of women in office and progressive politics. But the direction of the causal arrow isn't clear: Why isn't it the case that more women run for office when politics turns progressive (i.e. there's more of a chance to do something as opposed to banging your head against the wall)? Nor is it clear the actual causative factor isn't some third phenomenon entirely that causes BOTH. In other words, something that causes BOTH more progressive politics AND women in politics, which themselves do not directly cause each other. I can think of many possibilities that fit the bill.

In general, I've found that the real progressive heroes, male and female but typically female, achieve high office when they throw out bums in competitive races (Burner hopefully, Edwards, Shea-Porter). When there is a primary for a safe progressive seat a la MN-3 (or very similarly here in CO-2) the woman running is often as not the LEAST progressive. Emily's List in particular is fond of latching on to these kinds of candidates, which is a shame.


[ Parent ]
I'll grant you that (0.00 / 0)
When there is a primary for a safe progressive seat a la MN-3 (or very similarly here in CO-2) the woman running is often as not the LEAST progressive. Emily's List in particular is fond of latching on to these kinds of candidates, which is a shame.

There were a number of more progressive women (and men too) who stayed on the sidelines in MN-03 this year. In fact, the three who actually competed for the endorsement were probably the three least progressive candidates out of the universe of experienced, qualified, potential candidates.  

That's an interesting question in and of itself.  


[ Parent ]
So let's do this (0.00 / 0)
I had a bunch of things typed here, but ended up deleting them because really, this isn't an argument worth having.  Let's chat it over in person, NC

[ Parent ]
Amen To All That (0.00 / 0)
Emily's List is particularly frustrating as it takes a lot of money from very progressive women (and men) and uses a lot of it to elect very mediocre women who pass a too-narrow litmus test.

Of all the problems with this model, the simplest to talk about is purely technical--when is a litmust not actually a litmus test?  Answer: when it's too narrow.

The idea of a litmus test is that it ought to test something beyond itself.  Otherwise, it's only a test of whether you'll support the candidate and close your eyes to everything else.

And that's pretty much where Emily's List has devolved to over the years.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Hmmm ... (0.00 / 0)
Boxer: Too liberal, too old
Pelosi: Too liberal, too grating, too forceful
Napolitano: Too 'single'
Sebelius: Too bland, too docile

I didn't know Boxer would be considered.  Pelosi too forceful?  I think that is completely wrong.  I'd venture to say that she hasn'r been forceful enough(Meaning to tell Emanuel, but especially Hoyer, to sit down and STFU).  Sebelius is fine if she is indeed a progressive(and I'd trust Bowers would have researched this.  As far as Napolitano, there is nothing most of us can do about that(as sad as it is .. people will whisper .. which is why Crist or McBush's other BFF, Mini-me, won't be VP) .. the other thing is .. it has to be looked at why women won't run ... like why didn't Elizabeth Edwards ever run for elected office(She'd make a damn good candidate)?


[ Parent ]
Maybe women don't run (4.00 / 1)
because they don't run to have to squeeze themselves into the Goldilocks spectrum (this one's too pushy, that one's too docile.)

And I don't mean to say that we shouldn't select a woman VP. In fact, my current preference is Sebelius. I just mean that I have seen these criticisms applied to the above women.  


[ Parent ]
I wonder .. (0.00 / 0)
if it has to do with all the BS required to be a politician .. the ass kissing .. the drama .. you name it .. since it can be a cesspool in DC

[ Parent ]
Powers (4.00 / 1)
Stoller,

Judging Powers by one issue (he is pro-choice by the way, unless he lied on the air) is wrong. I think you know that and we all should know that. Judging ANY candidate by one issue is foolish. I'm sure you were just using that as an example, but I would still like to address your point in the piece above.

I have known Jon since July 2007. I met him at my county's Democratic picnic. I am a progressive by all accounts. My friends at The Albany Project can verify that for you. They can also verify that I am a resident of the 26th congressional district and a Jon Powers supporter.

The problem with labeling Powers "conservative" is that he is not conservative. He is, at worst, a moderate. He told a local radio station when asked what his stance on gay marriage was that it was a "state issue." I had no problem with that answer. California proved that and I hope that soon, New York will as well. You didn't mention this issue, but if that makes him "conservative", please elaborate.

On Iraq, Powers isn't part of the bring the troops home now crowd and he isn't like David Bellavia, a possible Republican opponent who shares John McCain's views on Iraq. Jon believes that we need to take care of some social pieces in Iraq before exiting. In fact, I would say his views are best aligned with the Responsible Plan. However, Jon Powers was saying the same things.

For example, I interviewed Powers last summer (the same day I met him). Here is what he said about Iraq:

"Right now, there's a two-sided debate," he said. "There's stay the course and withdrawal. What needs to be realized is that there are good people in Iraq. When we entered in 2003, we were going to address the military, social and economic situations of the country. We only addressed the military part. Now, not only do we need to address the military, social and economic conditions of the country, but our focus needs to be on the political situation as well."

Fast forward to now and this is what a section of the Responsible Plan says:

How do we bring American military engagement in Iraq to a responsible end?

There is no military solution to the problems faced in Iraq: the real progress that can be made requires diplomatic, political, and economic means. We must stop counter-productive military operations by U.S. occupation forces and end our military presence in Iraq.

Sound familiar?

On social issues, Powers has said that he is pro-choice and again, that gay marriage is a state issue. He has said in the past that he supports the same "affordable, accessible" health care proposal that Barack Obama has to offer. On economic issues, he supports a balanced budget (shouldn't we all?) and on issues concerning the progressive movement, he is in touch with us, not out of touch.

Is Powers conservative on something? I believe he is a fiscal conservative. But as an economics professor once told me, "All economics is conservative."

I'm not going to agree 100 percent with any candidate, including Powers. But calling him conservative sounds, at best, uninformed. I live in this district. Powers is working the hardest. He started canvassing in Clarence with frigid cold temperatures and snow on the ground in January. He believes in grassroots politics and running a grassroots campaign. When he becomes our congressman, I guarantee you he will do something to piss me off. But for every one occasion he irks me, there will be nine or ten times that he makes me proud to have him as my representative.

Is he a full-blown liberal? No. But he does have progressive views on a lot of things and I would term as a moderate with a slight lean to the left on some issues and a believer in fiscal conservatism.

I hope that clears up Powers for you.


There's no such thing as illegal immigration. But there are illegal wars...


Matt, you do not link to data to support this: (0.00 / 0)
 "In the Republican Party, 17 percent of women, compared to 4 percent of men find Hillary Clinton 'inspirational'"

I am curious about the source for that.

John McCain vetoes every Environmental Bill already.


[ Parent ]
the paper (0.00 / 0)
The blog post is derived from a paper written by Lawless and Fox, linked to in the blog post.  That's where the statement comes from.

[ Parent ]
Right (0.00 / 0)
Because there's no difference between an ex-intelligence officer that worked for Doug Feith and a young veteran that starts a charity to help out the kids of a war torn country, none whatsoever.

If you think Powers (and Madia) are more likely to be like Chris Carney than Eric Massa or Charlie Brown, and that therefore you're not thrilled by their candidacies, that's a defensible (but arguable) viewpoint.

But, if you're just tagging Powers with the 'conservative' label because he hasn't yet signed on to the Responsible Plan while Alice Kryzan has, I don't think that's right. You can tell a lot more about a person by what they do before they're in the limelight, and the fact that a late 20s kid returning from war decided to give his time to starting a charity to help the children of the country he was an occupying soldier in tells me a whole lot more about his progressive impulses than any position statement.

I support Jon, and I also support the Responsible Plan. I would love to see the Plan used as an organizing tool to both knock out Republicans this cycle AND put pressure on the next Congress to end the war legislatively, regardless of who is President. I'll see if I can get an answer from the Powers campaign as to why or not they haven't signed on. But let's not pretend that anyone that hasn't signed on is automatically some conservative. Dan Maffei, Charlie Brown, Gary Trauner, Dan Seals, Al Franken, and Rick Noriega are all BlueMajority endorsees that have not endorse the plan.

I don't think it helps your thesis in this thread to just label some of the people you pointed out as examples without some background reasoning. The users on this site are smarter than that. I'm personally going to be volunteering for Leslie Byrne and then Judy Feder going forward this cycle, so I am on board with supporting good female candidates. But you weaken your argument by pointing to people like Powers and Madia as the problem.


[ Parent ]
Fool me once? (0.00 / 0)
Stoller,

I know a lot of progressives and progressive bloggers in NY-26. I am one of them, Rochester Turning has one who has really been dedicated to covering Jon Powers and this race and there are bloggers outside of the district that like Jon Powers.

If your problem is that he didn't sign onto the Responsible Plan, quit acting like the boy on the playground after school who didn't have anyone to play with. Plenty of good people have signed onto the Responsible Plan and you have a lot of support for it - including mine. The only thing is that Jon was saying these things months before the Responsible Plan even existed. I can't speak for the campaign, but it probably isn't that he hates the Responsible Plan or hates it principles. He just had these thoughts before and wants to keep them original. I see nothing wrong with that.

But labeling Jon as a conservative Democrat is off base. I can't speak for the other men you listed (I'm not THAT familiar with their campaigns or views) but I will defend Jon. He is far from a conservative. We have to stop thinking that if someone isn't liberal or liberal enough then they must be a conservative. There IS a such thing as a moderate Democrat. Jon fits that mold and many of us accept that. We aren't going to agree on everything, but throwing him under the bus based on one or two issues is wrong.  

There's no such thing as illegal immigration. But there are illegal wars...


[ Parent ]
Needed... (0.00 / 0)
It should be pointed, though, that legislators in Cuba-and, one suspects, a lot of the other countries that are "more advanced" than America-do not have any power, they are more window-dressing than anything else.  Further, they are basically appointed by the powers that be, so that if they had to campaign for office-a problem noted in the study, which stated that campaigns often seem too strenuous for women-there would be fewer women in those legislatures.  

Donate to Open Left








Friends of the Earth thanks the OpenLeft community for the ideas you generate and your contributions to the progressive movement.

As an anti-spam measure, there is a 24-hour waiting period after registering before new users can comment.
blog advertising is good for you
blog advertising is good for you
SEARCH

   

Advanced Search