The Working Conservative (but not Republican) Majority

by: Matt Stoller

Fri Aug 10, 2007 at 15:57


Yesterday, I tested out the idea that what we are dealing with in Congress is a nominally Democratic majority but an effective Republican working majority.  I mostly pinned this on the Blue Dog swing bloc and a conservative Senate, but there are other important factors at work.  The conversation was really amazing, and punctured some holes in my piece. 

The fact is, things have changed quite a bit.  I'm friendly with a lawyer in a major executive branch agency, and she told me that the investigations going on by Congress are allowing her to do her job.  Steve Novick, candidate for Senate in Oregon (who is really quite terrific), told me the same thing about friends he has in the Federal bureaucracy.  Governance itself is getting better, or at least has stopped getting worse.  So Blue Dogs are not Republicans.

There are other weaknesses in what I wrote, and the commenters pointed them out.  In particular, this comment by Paul Rosenberg is I think accurate, as he argues that we are facing a conservative but not right-wing Blue Dog/DLC bloc combined with an anti-progressive elite consensus in the form of a hostile media establishment, a hostile think tank and academic structure, a hostile regulatory structure, a hostile set of cultural leaders and a set of old world economic incentives for elites.

I'm going to revise my earlier title, and argue that while we don't have a Republican working majority, we do have a conservative working majority to contend with.  Most of the strategic problems I highlighted in the original piece remain, with the additional need to attack and/or subvert elite structures.  The irony, or perhaps the not entirely-coincidental pattern of the Open Left, is that we're all at once going after the right-wing, their Blue Dog enablers, and the elite structures that love them.

The nub of Rosenberg's comment is as follows:

Matt Stoller :: The Working Conservative (but not Republican) Majority
While the Blue Dogs and the DLC Dems are by no means progressive, neither are they rightwing.  They are conservative on some issues, to be sure.  And they readily use conservative--sometimes even rightwing frames.  But their voting records overall are almost entirely to the left of virtually the entire Republican Party.  This is partly because the Democratic brand still means something to them--or, more importantly, it still means something to those who voted them into office.  But that's not nothing, particularly since so many Boll Wevills or their political heirs moved over to the GOP some time ago.

I'm by no means offering apologies for the Blue Dogs and DLC Dems.  I would like to get rid of the whole lot of them--particularly because I think it's a lie (aka a "self-fullfilling prophecy") that progressives can't win in their districts.  But I think it's important to recognize that the political landscape is more nuanced than a simple progressive/rightwing dichotomy...

While I still think that you're conclusions are more sound overall than not, I draw one important distinction: I don't think that Bush does have a governing majority, much less a man-date.  What he does have that you haven't talked about is an anti-progessive elite consensus more unified than anything this country has seen since the 1920s, which the netroots encounters most directly in the form of the media, but which has also been highlighted more recently in the form of the foreign policy establishment. 

That is accurate. 


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Read: "Paradox of American Democray" by John Judis (0.00 / 0)
He examines very very thoroughly your concepts of media elitism, and of institutions that work within democracy and how the "right turn" that institutions made in the 70's started to destroy the fragile balance that makes America work.

Seriously... it is amazing, and it hits almost all of your points.


Part of what we're seeing this week... (0.00 / 0)
  ...in the form of Harold Ford popping up all over the media to attack the blogosphere (and getting an assist from my governor, Martin O'Malley), is the anti-progressive establishment pushing back on Yearly Kos. While I always was realistic about O'Malley's credentials (or lack thereof) as a progressive, I never thought he'd explicitly align himself with the DLC either, so that was disheartening. One wonders what he feels he has to gain politically from such a move.

  What does this mean? On the plus side, it means that the blogosphere has gained enough power and influence to merit organized pushbacks from the establishment (placing us in Stage Three of Gandhi's famous quote). On the minus side, it means that we're going to have to contend with a much larger-scale effort to marginalize us than we've had to deal with before, and despite the tremendous strides made by the blogs, I'm not sure the infrastructure is quite there yet.

  The Markos-Ford exchange on Sunday will be telling. Our one advantage is that we KNOW the legacy media isn't our friend, and when one of our own goes on it he or she is prepared in that regard.

  I believe time is on our side, though. I got back home from Yearly Kos yesterday (took a few days' vacation) and my landline was jammed with messages from local Dems (including an officeholder of two) who'd read my dispatches and wanted to become a part of this...

 

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


Terminology (4.00 / 1)
An awful lot of that discussion is wrapped up in what the definitions of the terms "progressive", "conservative", "right-wing", etc.

Plus, there is a dichotomy between some of the BD/DLC bloc's votes and rhetoric on international affairs and defense issues and domestic issues. Depending on where you see the fulcrum point of the balance between right and left, someone you or Paul might consider simply conservative might be right-wing to another observer if, say, that observer felt their support for the war prevented domestic policies they said they supported from passing.

I'd like to add in a new term: "anti-progressive". I think it's going to come in useful in the next year and a half, as people like Harold Ford continue to tell progressives that they should get another message and the DLC attempts to reassert its authorits and the Blue Dogs make a few more "statements" like they did with the FISA bill that the "crazies" can't take over the party machinery because they'd rather throw the country back to Republican control.

It wouldn't be the first time.

Those who have had a chance for four years and could not produce peace should not be given another chance. --Richard Nixon, 9 October 1968


Language Matters (0.00 / 0)
It is important to be clear about our terms, even if the terms are necessarily somewhat elastic.

In one sense, I don't really see such a thing as the "fulcrum point of the balance between right and left."  There is, rather, a vast and complicated issue terrain, with all manner of fulcrum points.

In another sense, I think that--as has been argued by various people for some time now--the Bush/neo-con regime has worked to radically re-configure the right/left divide much more sharply along the lines of authoritarian governance, with the "war on terror" as leading edge of this realignment, but the manifestations visible across every issue domain.

And so, I think that one of the key struggles before us is to consolidate the anti-authoritarian side of the equation in terms of a countervailing positive vision, one that will bring us the support of a significant chunk of self-identified "conservatives" (not many movement conservatives, just to be clear, nor many partisan officeholders, but lots of, what's the word?  Oh yes, voters.)  And this is where language proves especially important.

Here's just one exmple.  A majority of people who self-identify as conservative support increased welfare state spending.  This has been the case as far back as polling data goes--in series form back to 1972, and in episodic form at least to 1964.  But the rightwing "movement conservatives" want to not just cut welfare state spending, they want to destroy the welfare state.

This is a fundamental chasm that the rightwingers paper over by demonizing liberals.  It is one of the main reasons that demonizing liberals is so important to them: without demonizing liberals they would be forced--sooner or later--into a discussion of fundamental governance issues where they would totally lose over half the electoral base that their power depends on.

And so it's up to us to be constantly looking for ways to undermine this demonization, and raise this governance issue to split the rightwing "movement conservatives" from the substantial number of conservatives who support the welfare state.  (Of course, spending on stuff like infrastructure--you know, bridges that actually go somewhere, stuff like that--is even more popular with conservatives, making the chasm even deeper.)  This gets back to using the power of institutional leadership (in the House and Senate) to help set the agenda, and define the terms of debate that in turn define what it means to be "progressive."

Finally, I agree 100% on the importance of getting the term "anti-progressive" into circulation.  Especially with the DLC creeps trying to define themselves as "progressive," as noted in some recent discussions here.  Let's define them in terms of what they're against.

That way, everyone wins.  "Everyone" meaning the American people, of course.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Popular (0.00 / 0)
But the rightwing "movement conservatives" want to not just cut welfare state spending, they want to destroy the welfare state.

Yes, I remember the effort to destroy end "welfare as we know it" went over pretty well when it was implemented back in the '90s.

While I agree with you that conservatives are more than happy to build more roads, I'm not actually sure they're so much into maintenance except when their psyches are jolted as they have been in the past week. What price are they willing to pay? What are their priorities? I suspect that tax-cutting may rate even higher than infrastructure on the popularity scale with them. And I'd hazard that they'd rather see the money for bridge repair come out of social service programs and all that money they think is going to Third World countries in foreign aid rather than the defense budget or increased revenue.

Sure could use some of that peace dividend about now.

Those who have had a chance for four years and could not produce peace should not be given another chance. --Richard Nixon, 9 October 1968


[ Parent ]
Looks Like I Will Have To Post A Diary About This (4.00 / 1)
But for now, from the General Social Survey:

68. We are faced with many problems in this country, none of  which can be solved easily or inexpensively. I'm going to name some of these problems, and for each one I'd like you to tell me whether you think we're spending too much money on it, too little money, or about the right amount. l. Highways and bridges.

Using a 7-point Likert scale, with  5 = "slightly conservative," 6 = "conservative," 7 = "extremely conservative":


  . . . . . . . . . . .  TOO ABOUT  TOO
  . . . . . . . . . .  LITTLE RIGHT  MUCH
5: SLGHTLY CONSERVATIVE  37.0  54.3  8.6
6: CONSERVATIVE . . . .  39.0  51.3  9.7
7: EXTRMLY CONSERVATIVE  42.7  47.6  9.8
TOT: ALL. . . . . . . .  38.6 51.9  9.5

R = -.02

In short: very little ideological variation.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Sad (0.00 / 0)
I don't want to see that diary. The numbers from those surveys are just too depressing. Even the "Extremely Liberal" category has more than 60% saying we spent too much on foreign aid.

Those who have had a chance for four years and could not produce peace should not be given another chance. --Richard Nixon, 9 October 1968

[ Parent ]
That's Because They Don't Know How Much We Spend (0.00 / 0)
Foreign aid and "welfare" are two categories that require special examination because the public wildly over-estimates how much money we spend on them--by well over an order of magnitude.

When people are asked about both these types of spending using a more down-to-earth methodology--variants on "how much should we be spending," they end up saying we should be spending much more than we currently are--typically five to ten times more on foreign aid, and more than twice as much on welfare.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Liberals (0.00 / 0)
Yeah, I know the "why", it's just depressing to have to fight both the active anti-progressivism of the conservatives and across-the-board ignorance.

I guess that's why the TrueMajorityACTION people put this out the other day:

  http://www.truemajor...

But until I looked at the charts I hadn't realized the figures against foreign aid were so high even for liberals.

Maybe if they'd specified humanitarian foreign aid.

Those who have had a chance for four years and could not produce peace should not be given another chance. --Richard Nixon, 9 October 1968


[ Parent ]
A culture of authoritarianism (0.00 / 0)
As I am reading it, this conversation has at least two elements of real value. One is a practical, empirical investigation of where the power resides in this Congress around policy formation and execution.

On that point, I will merely say that these relationships, given the new-ness of the majority, are in a state of play. There are deeply corporatist strains that complicate the picture tremendously, riddling it through with particular allegiances that hamstring most of the old bulls in the Democratic caucus.

I think that the 2006 election was badly oversold, given the tiny margins in the Senate, and that most of the leadership is focused mainly on 2008. Nonetheless, I appreciate the effort to assess whether there has been a progressive drift, and whether the conservatives among both parties are banding together to produce victories.

The second element, a far less instrumental assessment, is an important critique of a cultural context that enables an embedded gradualism and feebleness. As the blogosphere's and general rage over FISA makes clear, cultural elites still, surprisingly, feel much more less inoculated against scare tactics than the general population was in 2006.

The Johnson ad is just one great example of a failed message on fear, a theme which generally fell flat in '06. As pollster Celinda Lake reported, anger was the prevailing mood, not fear, and anger meant change.

Elites are also apparently far less concerned than the public generally about our approaching the kind of breaking point described in the unquoted parts of Paul's comment to Matt's last post on this topic.

On that broader subject, I wanted to point this group towards a video I stumbled across while mourning the recent death of a college advisor of mine, Richard Rorty. He charts the frightening fragility of democratic institutions, suggesting that a culture of secrecy among elites has become a tolerated, even encouraged, aspect of governance.

I lack the technical skills to embed it, but here is a link:
http://www.continent...

 


[ Parent ]
Compared To What? (0.00 / 0)
I think that the 2006 election was badly oversold...

Having spent a good deal of time reflecting on the history of electoral cycles--primarily in the House--the best I can figure is that 2006 potentially compares to 1930, a mid-term election in which the Dems fell just short of taking back power.  That Congress didn't accomplish all that much, either.

That's a bit of a cheap shot, because I pretty much agree with the rest of what you say.  (And Philosophy and the Mirror of Nature is one of the best books of 20th Century philosophy I've ever read.)  But there's good reason for it, precisely because I do agree with the rest of your perspective.

To reach for a sports metaphor here, I see it much like a very good save in volleyball, the sort of save that potentially sets up a devastating spike--that would be 2008.

The difference is that you and I would see as a devastating spike is something rather different than what the DC Dems consultants would mean.  And that's precisely where the 1930/1932 analogy comes in.  No one is going to hand that sort of historical opportunity to us.  But if we recognize the potential, it is there for the spiking.

What we need, in short, is for the anger to continue trumping the fear, and for it not to turn on the wrong targets.  Give us another 30-50 seats in the House, and suddenly we're taling solid majority numbers, where Pelosi can use a lot less carrot with the Blue Dogs and a lot more stick--or even simply ignore them altogether, and let them come to her.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
2006 vs.1930 (0.00 / 0)
Sure hope that 2008 turns out like 1932 with a net gain of 97 House seats for the Democrats.  Would that be delicious or what?

One of the real oddities of the 1930 cycle was that 9 House members were gone (presumably died) before the next election.  IIRC the resilt gave Democrats 216 House seats in November 1930 and we actually squeaked into nominal control during the session.

Democrats in 2006 won the strategic battle but lost the tactical battles.  Rove and his 24 Hour program did an outstanding job in saving around 15 seats they should have lost.  Hence, the tsunami didn't quit come off (a gain of 50 seats, plus or minus 5) with its usual force.  Those seats are still hanging out there, ready to be picked off in places like NY-25, PA-6 (? Gerlach), FL-13, NY-26, NY-29, NJ-7, IL-6, AZ-1, CA-4, MI-7, MI-9, MI-11, NC-8, Il-14, CT-4, NM-1, and the two Nevada seats (I think NV-2, and NV-3).

I think the working numbers we need for a solid governing majority are 270 in the House and 60 in the Senate,  Given that level of support )actually 60% in the Senate to adjust for 48 states prior to the admission of Alaska and Hawaii) and you get the peak of the New Deal (the elections of 1932, 1934, and 1936, the LBJ Great Society (1964) and Jimmy Carter (1976, nothing happened).  Overall, pretty awesome.


[ Parent ]
Agenda Setting (4.00 / 1)
We should not overlook the fact that we do have institutional control in Congress.  Just because it cannot be wielded to yield the sort of progressive legislative agenda we want does not mean it is without value.  The challenge is finding the way to make it most productive.  And another commentator had some good ideas along these lines.

rootless2 wrote:

Wedge votes and legislation that exposes Repubug/Blue-dog allegiance to very unpopular policies would be relatively easy and much more productive than committee hearings that only emphasize the powerlessness of the Democrats.

For example;
A bill to make it a felony for anyone working for a government agency to disclose private information to data miners or commercial rivals. Wall street needs to be scared that the Rethugs will play favorites

A bill to invalidate "fine print" on mortgage or insurance documents that have the effect of reversing the apparent intent of the contract. Call it the "Fair Contract Restoration Act".

A bill to strip government officials of all insurance and pensions and to stop any salary payments if they plead the fifth amendment or otherwise refuse to testify under oath about their official duties.

A bill to create a Veterans Ombudsman's office with the power to over-rule Pentagon and VA benefits denials.

The point here is that this is a powerful way to change the political conversation, and it's something the netroots should take up as a strategy to urge on the leadership.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


We've tried this (0.00 / 0)
  Not that I disagree at all with this approach -- I believe as well that it could be enormously effective -- but the rub lies in getting the Dems to commit to it. And they haven't been willing to.

  For instance, what better wedge issue was there than Jack Murtha's proposal tying war funding to properly equipping the troops? Was there any better way to divide Congress into troop-supporters and troop-non-supporters, and publicly placing the progressives in the troop-supporter camp? How strikingly could the narrative have changed if we'd been able to force the Republicans to vote against troop equipment?

  And yet this idea was shot down -- by DEMOCRATS. Think about it -- a public position that would have cost the blue dogs absolutely nothing politically, while at the same time advancing progressive goals, got scuttled by the Dem leadership. Even though a clear majority of the public would have gone along with such a proposal -- a proposal that would have done nothing but strengthen the party's brand among those sacred swing voters. How tough could this have possibly been to sell?

  So I'm reluctant to give the blue dogs even the slightest amount of slack...

 

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
If It Were Easy, It Would Have Already Been Done (0.00 / 0)
Um, obviously you're not familiar with the game of baseball, and the fact that the greatest hitters in the history of game made more outs than hits, while the greatest homerun hitters made more strikeouts than homeruns.

If at first you don't succede, try, try again.

p.s. Murtha was once considered a Blue Dog, at least informally.  He was one of the most conservative Democrats in the House, particularly from the North.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Great hitters make outs... (0.00 / 0)
  ...but they don't strike out intentionally.

  Which is exactly what the Democrats did there.

  I'm well aware Murtha's a conservative Democrat -- which makes his position as a "wedger" all the more effective. Theoretically, anyway. But the Democrats are yet to see the potential there...and one wonders what the holdup is.

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
Twelve Years On The Bench (0.00 / 0)
You are expecting the Democrats to function at peak form after 12 years on the bench.  Well, so am I, to be frank, when it comes to my expectations.  But when they don't perform, my reaction is not to give up as easily as you seem inclined to do.

Unless, of course, you're a Red Socks or Cubs fan, who takes positive joy in suffering.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I'm not giving up... (0.00 / 0)
  ...just realistic about how far we can get with a congressional Dem crew that can't even see the obvious.

  And I think the Cubs have bumped the Red Sox from the top of that list...

 

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn


[ Parent ]
You're Willfully Missing My Point (0.00 / 0)
It takes time to develop a winning strategy.  If we have ideas about what can make for a winning strategy, it's up to us to push for it, and stop making excuses about why there's no point.

Your attitude about being "realistic about how far we can get with a congressional Dem crew that can't even see the obvious" sounds an awful lot like the same line we hear from DC about being "realistic about how far we can get with a narrow Senate majority, and a President who will veto anything he doesn't like."

In short, it sounds defeatist and unimaginative.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Transformational (4.00 / 1)
Before Babe Ruth, the strikeout carried a real stigma for the hitter.  Look at the list of hitters with the most strikeouts and nearly all of them played in 1960 or later (maybe not all of their careers).  Ruth's motto was that every strikeout brought him closer to the next home run.  The willingness to "take risks" "look bad" had telling results.  For one thing, the career strikeout mark went from Walter Johnson's 3500 to Nolan Ryan's 5700 (or Babe Ruth's circa 1500 to Reggie Jackson's 2500).

Play offense and the defense starts to get scared.  So many pitchers get ahead 0-2 or 1-2 and waste pitches instead of going after the hitter these days.  Is it any wonder that starters last six innings instead of throwing complete games?  They've scared themselves into ineffective behavior.  We don't go after the hitter as Democratic pitchers.  Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid need to address the GOPers and especially Bush with all the swagger of Bob Gibson in his prime.  Those hitters didn't care about the count, they were scared!  I can remember a batter in the first inning of a Gibson game (probably in 1968) who was up with the bases loaded and actually had his front foot heading for the dugout. 


[ Parent ]
Nice Connections (0.00 / 0)
Sounds like you could be a relief pitcher for King Kaufmann over at Salon yourself.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Conservative (0.00 / 0)
The problem is that the population is, in general, "conservative".

By that I mean that two of the foundational themes are still supported by a majority. The first of these is based upon Puritanism. This manifests itself in many forms, from gay marriage and other sexual attitudes, to abortion, to our failed drug policy, to our harsh prison attitudes.

The second is the frontier, self-reliant attitude. The fact that everyone is descended from people who actually picked up and moved here reinforces this. You can believe in genetics, or just in attitudes handed down by prior generations, but the ideas are quite common. Notice that the extreme form of this (libertarianism) exists nowhere else as a part of the common political dialog. This shows itself in attitudes towards welfare and other social services for the poor. It also shows up in the high esteem captains of industry are held - "he is a self-made man".

There is a mixed record on support for one of the other foundational ideas, that the US is exceptional and has the right and duty to tell the rest of the world what to do. It's the modern version of the Whiteman's Burden. People tend to support it when we are winning, but have second thoughts when we aren't.

Where people are "progressive" is in support of universal social services. This includes Social Security and Medicare and would include a universal health plan if one could be put forward that wasn't seen as a sop to the private insurance and drug interests. The people are also in favor of government regulation of things that are for the general good. This includes things like the FDA and SEC as well as EPA and similar programs. The GOP has been doing its utmost to gut and demonize these, but I think there is still a fundamental support for this role for government.

Notice that target programs like Welfare get mixed support, while general programs like SS get strong backing. This is the residue of the two basic themes I stated. People don't like to feel somebody is "getting something for nothing".

Clever pols try to frame things so that the specialized programs are made to see more universal than they are. So Schip is for "children" or uninsured children, not poor children.

The majority of people don't see the basic problems that we currently face. They underestimate the degree to which the US has become a plutocracy and while they dislike "big business" as an abstract, they always work hard to preserve their spot within it.

Conyers is a perfect example, he put the concerns of his district and the auto workers/auto makers first and demanded they be left out of any comprehensive energy bill. Each person has some special concern which overrides their general support so little gets done.

Policies not Politics


Yes And No (0.00 / 0)
We are a settler society, so we share the libertarian pioneer strain of thinking with Canada, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand in particular.  OTOH, the reality of settler societies is that they were highly interdependent and reliant on social cooperation.  The ideology and the reality as sharply at odds with one another.

This is a contradiction that outsiders (such as my urban secular Jewish self) can see quite clearly, but cannot address nearly as well as people born and raised into the culture itself--such as the emerging crop of Montana Democratic leadership, for example.

Puritanism is certainly a factor, but you must remember that both the great awakenings substantially changed the orginal deeply pessimistic Clavinist core of our Puritan heritage.  Again, there are significant contradictions that sub-cultural insiders are by far the best ones to rely on for leadership in dealing with.

Finally, there's nothing unique to America--or even settler societies in general--about the fact that universal programs are more deeply- and widely-supported than means-tested ones.  This is true throughout the OECD.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Book (0.00 / 0)
I don't know if I've cited this book recently or not, but it's still worthwhile.

Myths America Lives By

From the blurb:

Myths America Lives By identifies five key myths that lie at the heart of the American experience--the myths of the Chosen Nation, of Nature's Nation, of the Christian Nation, of the Millennial Nation, and of the Innocent Nation. Drawing on a range of dissenting voices, Hughes shows that by canonizing these seemingly harmless myths of national identity as absolute truths, America risks undermining the sweepingly egalitarian promise of the Declaration of Independence.

The fact that he is a professor of religion at a conservative college and stays away from modern examples, adds to the weight of his argument.

Policies not Politics


[ Parent ]
Myths, Potency And Application (0.00 / 0)
These sorts of myths are certainly important.  But also significant is how myths get re-worked, re-applied and even melded with new elements.  I haven't read the book, but a seemingly compatible book that does explore how mythology gets re-shaped is Richard Slotkin's Regeneration Through Violence: The Mythology of the American Frontier, 1600-1860, which is actually the first book in a trilogy.

What struck me most about this book was the way in which the original fantasies of enemy others were elaborated, and how much of that original archetecture is still evident to this day. The role of Native American captivity narratives--the first not-strictly-religious bestsellers in the American colonies--was particularly instructive.  If you want to really understand the deep mythic power behind the Jessica Lynch charade, Slotkin's discussion of captivity narratives is extremely useful.

It also explains the success of Richard's Nixon's entirely illogical rhetorical move to turn the Vietnam War into a struggle to secure our captured POWs.  This is dealt with quite tellingly in H. Bruce Franklin's M.I.A. or Mythmaking in America.

The essence of the captivity narrative's function is that it turns the civilized invaders into innocent victims of savage natives, which ties in quite directly to at least three of the myths mentioned--chosen nation, innocent nation and Christain nation--with a strong presumption that it links to millenial nation as well.

Slotkin fairly quickly moves on to a theme that relatves to the fifth myth--nature's nation--as he explains the emergence of frontier hero figure who becomes "more Indian than the Indian" while simultaneously retaining his civilized identity as well.

My point in rambling on so is that specific narratives have tremendous power particularly in terms of how they invoke such background myths.  The background myths, in turn, can be played with by crafting counfounding narratives.  The most successful example of such confounding, in my experience, is Buffy, The Vampire Slayer, which doesn't deal with these nation-defining myths, but does perform the kind of operation that's necessary to really take such myths apart and stand them on their heads.  (Buffy starts with subverting the 1980s slasher movie mythos, and ends with subverting the whole edifice of Western patriarchy.)

IMHO, if the Dems were really serious about recapturing not just the White House, but across-the-boards political dominance, they'd hire Joss Whedon as their message guru, with like a 10-year contract.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Books (0.00 / 0)
As long as were are recommending books I'd like to suggest Robert Jay Lifton's "Hiroshima in America". This week had Hiroshima Day, but I don't remember seeing it mentioned anywhere. More scrubbing of the historical record.

The relevant part of the book is his analysis of the types of pressures that Truman was subjected to after he took over the presidency. FDR didn't like him and thus he was completely in the dark as to what was going on. I'm not even sure he was aware of the Manhattan Project.

So his sources of information were the military and the exiting FDR advisers. Lifton's theory is that this environment made it psychologically impossible for Truman not to drop the A bomb. This is apropos today when we have another president living in a bubble.

I think the psychological aspect of how things actually work gets under appreciated. Too many people want to discuss things strictly on the basis of economic data or various ideological stances.

We've discussed this before and I'm starting to see a bit of discussion that acknowledges that (irrational) human behavior plays a part in decision making.

Certainly Madison Ave understands how the game is played.

Policies not Politics


[ Parent ]
Irrational Behavior? (0.00 / 0)
I'm starting to see a bit of discussion that acknowledges that (irrational) human behavior plays a part in decision making.

That's just crazy talk!

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here.  This is the war room!"
            -- Dr. Strangelove


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Not all (0.00 / 0)
Blue Dogs are corporate sellouts. And there are a lot of DLC members that are mostly DLC in name (Deval Patrick, Eliot Spitzer, Tom Udall, etc). Also the Blue Dogs and DLC are much more progressive then even the most liberal Republicans.

I wouldn't even call the DLC conservative. Conservative implies that they are center-right, Ben Nelson is the only Democrat with a voting record that is to the right of center.

DLC Dems and Blue Dogs are just out of touch Beltway Centrists. Yeah I know they aren't really in the center of public opinion but compared to the rest of Congress they are the furthest to the right and therefore makes them closer policy-wise to the most liberal Republicans and in between those "liberal" Republicans and "conservative" Democrats is the fake center. That center isn't the center of America. It is simply in between the out of touch "liberal" Republicans and "conservative" Democrats.

Some things the DLC and Blue Dogs are progressive on. Not progressive but senseable enough to vote for wildly popular progressive proposals.

John McCain: Beacuse lobbyists should have more power


Linear vs. multipolar political spectrum (0.00 / 0)
I think an important thing to explore further is why the Blue Dogs and the DLC consider themselves Democrats. In other words, there is some set of issues that they feel strongly enough about that they ally with us and not with the Republicans or even some centrist party. If we play ball on those issues, we'll win. Social Security was a good example of this.

On the other hand, there is some set of issues where that isn't true. I think it is different for the Blue Dogs and the DLC, though there is obvious overlap. Tax cuts jump to mind, as does FISA.

A good parallel, as I and others have said, is the conservative coalition of 1938-1964. They would block any civil rights legislation and labor legislation but were fairly good on taxation, for example.

What we need to remember is that there isn't a linear spectrum from left to right where we can draw a line past which we don't consider folks Democrats. We may be able to say certain issues are non-negotiable, but what if they agree with us on everything else (ie Joe Lieberman circa 2003, before he lost it)?

I'd love to see a conversation start about what are the issues that cement our coalition and what are the issues that tear us apart and then plot out a strategy that means we get to use the power of the Blue Dogs for us and not have to fight them. Remember, we get to set the agenda, not them or the Republicans.


What makes a Democrat a Democrat? (0.00 / 0)
I'm not sure that I would let go of the "Republican working majority" concept.  There's no question but that having a majority of registered Democrats running Congress, and the subpoena power that comes with it, even when those subpoenas are ignored, does make a difference.  And one can't undo x-number of years of damage and caution in, say, one year.

But...there are, at this moment, for better or for worse, on the national level, two operative political parties in this country: Democrats and Republicans (I'm not discounting the work of Greens and others on the local level).  I would hope that there are certain core values and principles that make a Democrat a Democrat, and the problem as I see it is some combination of a) those principles shifting to the right under the guise of DLC-types, and b) Democratic politicians being afraid to stand up for what they supposedly believe.  Look what happened with the FISA debacle; yes, Reid and Pelosi deserve blame for letting this pass, but the actual votes themselves show that the vast majority of Democrats voted against it, it was almost entirely the Blue Dogs who voted for it, yet all the headlines and analyses are about how the Democrats caved.  Well, they didn't, really; Reid and Pelosi screwed up, but it was the Blue Dogs who voted Republican.

What are core Democratic values?  Are civil liberties and respect for the Constitution two of them?  If yes, and if the Blue Dogs don't uphold them, then I'm not sure that the Blue Dogs really are Democrats.  And if that's the case, and there are only two national political parties, then, yes, it does seem to me that there is a working Republican majority.

And I think there's value in branding the argument this way, as it sets Democratic values in opposition to Republican values, and forces certain politicians to choose sides.


Playing with names (0.00 / 0)
It might be interesting to imagine the USA becoming, by dictat of course, a multi-party parliamentary democracy.  If so, how would the splintered groups of the 2 parties name themselves.

I describe the Republicans, variously, as rethuglicans, neocons, paleocons, wingnutz, fundagelicals, GOoPerz & some occasional expletive combinations.  But, would they divide themselves into 2, 3 or 4 groups?

How would the Democratic Party re-align itself?  Liberals, Democrats, Christian Democrats, Labor, Blue Dog, etc.?

I was always fond of Know-Nothings, Mugwumps & Bull Moose.

Could Whigs & Tories make come-backs?

More seriously, Tip O'Neill nailed it, LOCAL.  The most liberal Democrat from a congressional district with a mega-military installation will have some genuine restraints on certain policy positions.


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