What a flip-flopper! (0.00 / 0)

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by: bluethunder @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 13:09:21 PM CDT

The Politics Of Incohenece (4.00 / 3)

It's gotten to the point that not only does no one expect John McCain to be coherent, but I suspect that no one would know what to do if he suddenly was.

After all, one consistent fatuous message gets old a whole lot faster than a continuous barrage of ever-changing, mutually-contradictory fatuous messages.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 13:10:34 PM CDT

Dead On, Paul (4.00 / 1)

I am actually beginning to believe that McCain is less intellectually-equipped than George Bush.

He may not make the same kind of hilarious verbal mistakes, but anytime I see him questioned on policy it's obvious he doesn't know jack shit about anything.  and no one has taken the time to coach him on stock responses!

I don't think people have even begun to realize what a complete disaster this man would be in the Oval Office.

John McCain.  Wrong for America.

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by: ArkansasLiberal @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 13:59:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

2004 (4.00 / 1)

In 2004 one could argue that Kerry lost and George W. Bush won because Kerry failed to define himself to the public, and George W. Bush succeeded at defining Kerry to the public.

In 2008, John McCain is not only failing to define Obama to the public, he's failing to define to the public what he even wishes his definition of Obama would be.

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by: mcc @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 14:01:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Just, You Know, A Bad Man (0.00 / 0)

John McCain says, "What does it matter?  He's not me!  Why would anyone vote for someone who is not me?"

"I don't know.  Mebbe he can't tie his shoelaces.  He's alfully tall.  Mebbe he can't bend over that far.  You never know."

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 14:47:36 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Cognitive dissonance is no deterrence to holding mutually contradictory ideas (0.00 / 0)

Especially in politics and general social voews.

For example...anti semites  of the 19th and 20th century held that  Jews were stupid, ignorant, dirty, verminous rabble who nevertheless somehow were also the progenitors of a conspiracy to control the economic world through the evil machinations of Jewish bankers.  Bankers are rich and reasonabbly smart ...esp. if they are going to control the world....while the ghetto rabble are supposed to be stupid and ignorant.  

Mutually contradictory ideas can often held by the same persons,  or if not the exact same persons,  then one idea can be held by one group and the other mutually contradictory idea can be held by a different group.

We got something for everyone here.

Logical consistency is hardly necessary to attack someone....the more you throw at them the likelier it is that something will stick.

"Incrementalism isn't a different path to the same place, it could be a different path to a different place"
Stoller

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by: debcoop @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 23:01:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Same thing on Iraq (4.00 / 1)

McCain himself has gone from saying that "Obama completely flip-flopped on Iraq" to "Obama has already made his mind up on Iraq before he's even been there" in the span of, what, less than a week?

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by: Haggai @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 13:10:57 PM CDT

Now he's saying (4.00 / 2)

We have won in Iraq.  Believe it.

They are going to do a George Aiken, declare victory and bring the troops home befopre the election.  It is their best gamble, except that then it will focus things on the economy, where McCain is even more incoherent and ignorant.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

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by: Mimikatz @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 13:16:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I don't think any troops are coming home before the election (0.00 / 0)

I really, really would not suggest holding your breath in anticipation of that.

What might happen is a shift of some troops from Iraq to Afghanistan, as the Joint Chiefs have been pretty much openly calling for.  In that event, McCain's new "we've already won in Iraq" message would be designed to set up the argument that "we're shifting to Afghanistan because we won in Iraq," as opposed to Obama's argument that "this is further proof that we never should have gone to Iraq in the first place," or at a minimum, that "the surge" involved sending troops to the wrong country.      

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by: Haggai @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 13:57:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I was under the impression (0.00 / 0)

that to John McCain "victory" means "we stay there for 50 years, like in Korea".

...mission accomplished?

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by: mcc @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 14:02:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Update on Bush/McCain policy change (4.00 / 1)

Rand Beers in an interview with David Kurtz of TPM said he thinks that Bush will set things up (including his "time horizon" for withdrawing) so that he can declare victory and begin the withdrawal, but leave it to his successor to continue.  So anything that goes wrong is on the successor and he can say he won!  Sounds right to me.  

McCain, if elected, could still just stay forever under that scenario if he wanted.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

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by: Mimikatz @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 15:55:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

McCain will say anything (4.00 / 2)

He's totally desperate.  He just constantly and routinely makes stuff up.  He said Obama's health care plan was like Hillarycare of '93 and was a government takeover.  It was close to socialized medicine.  This is demonstrably false.  Steve Benen has had a couple of long posts on this, and has a list of 64 flipflops by McCain.

I think McCain fundamentally doesn't care or know any more about actually domestic policies than George Bush.  He just wants to be President to, well, be President.  Oh, and to wage war, because war is cool and it's what makes Presidents great.  And to outclass his father.

I'm so sick of this, at a time when the country faces really serious economic and environmental problems and when inequality is rising and life is generally becoming increasingly unpleasant.  The sooner these guys are all sent packing the better.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

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by: Mimikatz @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 13:13:57 PM CDT

I've said it all along .. (4.00 / 2)

McCain is running for President because he is a small man .. and what I mean by that is .. McCain's dad and grandfather were admirals .. well known and respected in military circles .. so yeah .. McCain really is McSame .. just like George .. he strives to one up daddy .. and being a Senator doesn't carry the same respect as being Admiral

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by: Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 13:52:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Bernie Sanders (4.00 / 2)

Is an actual, self-described socialist.  If any senator should be described as "most" left/extreme/whatever it will be him.

How does this "most liberal/extreme senator" narrative not get laughed out of the room?

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by: Daniel De Groot @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 13:14:53 PM CDT

Because lots of people (4.00 / 3)

Want the GOP to win, and McCain is their only hope.  And lots of these folks are in the media.  They are distorting coverage and giving McCain a pass.  And oh, Obama is younger than some of them, and obviously unqualified and arrogant and uppity and whatever.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

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by: Mimikatz @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 13:20:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yeah (4.00 / 1)

I know.  But it disappoints me that the Democratic panelists do not rebut this claim often enough.  The National Journal is hardly the gold standard in ideological senate rankings.

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by: Daniel De Groot @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 13:34:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

what's more, we can't (4.00 / 1)

let him get away with substituting 'extreme' FOR 'liberal.' If he wants to say "extreme liberal" he should . But if he's just describing 'extreme' positions in relation to what is considered mainstream today, then here are the top five in the Senate:
John Barrasso (R-WY)
Tom Coburn (R-OK)
Jim DeMint (R-SC)
James Inhofe (R-OK)
Jon Kyl (R-AZ)
http://www.conservative.org/ar...

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by: along @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 15:45:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

it's perfectly consistent (4.00 / 2)

Indeed, the politics of the moment demand an extreme left position.

The truth about Saxby Chambliss

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by: nstrauss @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 13:28:45 PM CDT

Exactly (0.00 / 0)

Like The Coup said, "If you're waitin for the times to fight these is them."

John McCain opposes the GI Bill.

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by: Lucas O'Connor @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 13:50:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

logic reality versus the logic of throwing everything against the wall (0.00 / 0)

to see what sticks as an entertaining story. We know which one the media prefers because we know which one makes them money. Your logic doesn' make them money.

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by: bruhrabbit @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 13:29:09 PM CDT

I Don't Think They Expect ANYTHING To Stick, Really (0.00 / 0)

At this point, it's all about the ever-shifting splatter patterns.


"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 13:41:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

yep (0.00 / 0)

Guess I should read comments before posting my own.  Obviously, I agree.

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by: Mark Matson @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 14:15:25 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Throw shit, see what sticks (4.00 / 1)

I think we routinely give Republicans too much credit for being evil geniuses at negative politics.  More often than not, they go with the evolution/free market approach and just throw a lot of shit at the opponent and see what sticks.

If one of these two messages catches on, they'll hit harder on it.  If not, they'll go on to something else.

They threw a ton of stuff at Kerry before the Swift Boat allegations hit home.  None of the early stuff worked and Kerry's practice of ignoring it seemed quite smart -- until it seemed quite dumb.  

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by: Mark Matson @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 14:13:37 PM CDT

You'll be surprised how well that works (0.00 / 0)

 Among conservatives, anyway. This message is aimed at Republicans considering voting for Obama.

 My family is a sea of Republicans -- wingnut Republicans. They maintain these kinds of contradictory thoughts in their head with little difficulty. It's almost a requirement for their mindset.

 Oh, and they're best not challenged. When I asked a family member why someone as evil as Saddam Hussein didn't actually unleash that massive stack of WMD's he was supposed to be sitting upon, he didn't talk to me for days.

 Messaging to the right is never about logic.  

 

"We judge ourselves by our ideals; others by their actions. It is a great convenience." -- Howard Zinn

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by: Master Jack @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 15:40:48 PM CDT

Oh Master Jack, I Thought You Knew! (0.00 / 0)

When you ask embarassing questions, the terrorists win!

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

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by: Paul Rosenberg @ Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 17:20:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]