Not Going To Freak Out Over Biden

by: Chris Bowers

Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 12:05


After Kaine and Bayh, the new buzz de jure for Vice-President is Joe Biden. While I strongly opposed the first two options, I won't be screaming about Biden. Here is the latest buzz, from CNN (more in the extended entry):
Chris Bowers :: Not Going To Freak Out Over Biden
When Joe Biden returns to Capitol Hill Monday from his two-day trip to embattled Georgia, vice presidential speculation will rest squarely on him.

The longtime Delaware senator and former presidential candidate has long been considered to be on the shortlist for Barack Obama's running mate, but his quickly-planned trip to Georgia Saturday night at the behest of that country's president left Washington buzzing he is the most likely choice.

And, as tremayne already linked last night, from Steven Clemmons, at the Washington Note:

But sources close to Obama report to me that after the "surge of concern" on the net about Evan Bayh, he has not been selected as Obama's VP running mate.

I have been informed that the decision has been made, and I don't know who that person is.

I also have been told that Tom Daschle is not the running mate. I also happen to know that it is not Wesley Clark.

I just received word that it is not Senator Jack Reed either, though Obama thought very highly of him.(...)

That leaves Joe Biden. Could Warner be a head fake -- and it's Tim Kaine after all? Not sure. . .circumstantial evidence points to Biden.

Now, all this buzz could be wrong, and it won't end up being Biden. Also, Biden is not a reinforcing choice, as he has served in the Senate for 36 years and supported the war back in 2002-2003. In two key ways--Iraq judgment and "change" election--that is very much the opposite of Barack Obama, and could muddle his message.

Still, when it comes to ideological leanings and campaign ability, Biden is a preferable choice to Bayh and Kaine. Rather than being a right-wing Democrat, and despite his reputation online as a hawk representing D-MBNA, Biden is pretty middle of the road for a Democrat. According to progressive punch, he comes in at 23rd out of 43 non-freshman Democrats in terms of lifetime progressive ranking, just barely behind Kerry (19th), Dodd (20th), and Obama (21st). As a campaigner, while Biden is often criticized online as never finding a camera he didn't think should be filming him, he is very familiar on the national stage, with the national media, and is a strong debater. He is also a good attack dog, and you shouldn't have to worry about him falling down in that category.

Maybe my support for Biden is mainly a testament to how poor the crop of potential candidates is than anything else. After all, being preferable to Evan Bayh isn't really saying much of at all. I think he is about an equal choice to Dodd, even though Dodd has displayed a bit of a progressive bent lately and is always on message (he does, unfortunately, have a recent scandal). Kaine is a reinforcing pick, but it is hard to swallow him as an effective governor, or an effective national campaigner. Sebelius might be a bit more reinforcing than Biden, but she is also untested as a national campainger.

Which is to say that Biden, Sebelius and Dodd all rank about the same to me. They are also clearly above Kaine, and that Kaine ranks above Evan Bayh, who is the worst pick of all. With Biden, it nice, and a bit of a relief, for the speculation to be centered on one of the better three this time. I still wouldn't be surprised by a Kaine pick, but I would be relieved by a Biden one.  

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Not Going To Freak Out Over Biden | 52 comments
I agree (4.00 / 6)
and I would underline the point about Biden being a brawler. We are in a huge dogfight that is only going to get more vicious and Obama needs somebody who has the personality and the standing to be able to cut McCain down to size.  Kathleen Sebelius, Tim Kaine, or even Chris Dodd don't fit the bill.

If Obama was cruising in the polls, I would worry more about the politics of the VP choice.  I don't think we have that luxury at this point.

John McCain: Health insurance for low income children represents an "unfunded liability."

sounds like (0.00 / 0)
an argument for Hillary Clinton. Plus, she won a few more votes than Biden during the primaries. Wow, did I just make an argument for Obama-Clinton?
[ Parent ]
Clinton = higher negatives (4.00 / 2)
At least, I'd suspect. Plus, she'd simultaneously energize the GOP base while demoralizing a hunk of Dem (given her negatively perceived behavior during the primaries). I'd definitely prefer Biden.
[ Parent ]
And there's Bill (0.00 / 0)
And all the problems it would create for actually trying to govern with a 3-headed Presdiency.  And the drama.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.
[ Parent ]
Biden has real experience (4.00 / 3)
Whereas Hillary has just 8 years in the Senate and her First Lady years. Let's not pretend that she has the same standing to attack McCain on foreign policy that Biden does.

I hope Biden is the pick. He's said some controversial stuff in the past, but he has also said controversial stuff about Obama ("clean, articulate"). So if Obama can give him a break, it actually shows graciousness on his part.

Obama/Biden '08.

"Change We Can Believe In. Experience You Can Count On"

[ Parent ]
Sadly... (0.00 / 0)
You're probably right.   That might just make the strongest ticket now.
[ Parent ]
I still think (4.00 / 1)
that Hillary would actually be a good choice, possibly the strongest choice, in terms of maximizing our chances of winning the election.  But I think she would be a problematic choice in terms of what comes afterwards and I don't expect it to happen, no matter what "teasers" in that direction have been dangled in the last week.

John McCain: Health insurance for low income children represents an "unfunded liability."
[ Parent ]
the problem with Hill (4.00 / 2)
is that Bill has yet to fully endorse Obama or show himself to be a team player. I wouldn't pick a VP whose husband didn't like me. Hell no.
[ Parent ]
the troubles with obama-clinton (4.00 / 2)
it has implications for who controls the democratic party and to what extent (maybe it's better to have competing centrist power bases that are slightly different from one another in policy - i dunno).

obama-clinton will generate the perception of a "diversity ticket."
do i think there's anything wrong with that? no.
do i think it should hurt the chance of the ticket to win? no.
do i think it will? yes. (mainly because the campaign has shown no evidence that they'll push back hard enough, as far as I can tell).

i also don't know how wise it would be to have co-presidents or the perception thereof, and finally what it would mean for health care reform after the earlier attempt by clinton as powerful non-president.  

it's a much higher risk strategy, i think, for both the election and for obama's ability to retain control of his administration (without even engaging the question of whether or not his total domination would be a good or bad thing) than picking a middle aged white guy who can and will fight with mccain.

[ Parent ]
Biden is a far better speaker, though (4.00 / 2)
I wouldn't be unhappy with Hillary Clinton (especially compared to Kaine or Bayh), but I don't believe Clinton can fend off GOP attacks effectively. What she has demonstrated is an ability to effectively attack Democrats. Given the predilections of the traditional media, this is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Biden may be the only one other than Clark who I'd actually trust to smack the GOP BS down at every turn. Google "biden smackdown".

[ Parent ]
Agree with both of you (4.00 / 1)
I wrote a good bit in the thread below about how hard it is for a Dem to attack, but Biden is probably as good as it gets on this.  He has the national security cred to call McCain on his ignorance and bellicosity, and make it stick.  He doesn't back down.  But he does it with humor and is pretty solid on his facts.  I'd love to see hoim debate Romney or Pawlenty.  He would reassure on the foreign front and would leave Obama free to concentrate on connecting with voters on economic issues.  And he's edgy enough to make things interesting.  And he's a plausible President.

Ok by me.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
Best of all - he's old. (0.00 / 0)
Yet not that old-seeming.  He will not be the nominee on his own.  That creates a more open field for future WH races.  (If he runs, he'll be 70+)
[ Parent ]
Yup (4.00 / 1)
I'm in the not-freak-out-over-Biden camp. He's a pro whose strong political appeal has been somewhat undervalued due to circumstance. He's relatively real--real, that is, for a politician, which is why the press loves him. If he'd run in 2004, he'd be president right now. He could win the VP debate so convincingly that it becomes an pivotal event. As for his main liability--his verbal gaffes--he showed pretty good discipline during the primary.

No one would mistake him for a progressive champion, but he's mostly resisted the DLC temptation. Obama's no more progressive than he is. In fact, during the primary--on issues like trade and Iran--Biden was to the left of Obama. His leadership on the violence against women act could be useful. All that said, I don't relish seeing clips of Biden during Anita Hill.

Interesting to see what Markos would say, since Biden, along with Kucinich, were the candidates he deemed "unacceptable."


[ Parent ]
This reminds me of that Mad TV sketch from the 90s (4.00 / 1)
"Lowered Expectations."  
Hey, given (0.00 / 0)
that Obama continues to move to the right--on taxes, most recently--I'd probably prefer Biden at the top of the ticket.  
[ Parent ]
I am disillusioned with American politicians,media and the American people (0.00 / 0)
I don't really have a preference. Just an observation
[ Parent ]
Disillusionment is a good precursor (0.00 / 0)
I think it's a good precursor to realistic expectations and progress as it really happens....incrementally
[ Parent ]
cheer up (4.00 / 1)

Maybe my support for Biden is mainly a testament to how poor the crop of potential candidates is than anything else.

Your persistent gloominess over the last year always makes me chuckle. Think of the VP choice McCain has to make. I pity him. For that matter, think of our presidential options over the last couple of cycles.  

The truth about Saxby Chambliss
McCain's best reinforcing choice is clearly: (4.00 / 6)

 


[ Parent ]
Bankruptcy (4.00 / 2)
We must repeal the bankruptcy "reform" when Obama takes office. Not re-negotiate it. Repeal it, tear it up and toss it on the compost heap. If Biden makes a loud, 180-degree about-face on all such banking issues, he would be barely acceptable.

VISA is Hungry! http://www.funnyordie.com/vide...
Once out of Delaware (0.00 / 0)
He probably wouldn't care.  And his son would be the Senator and start collecting the MBNA checks.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.
[ Parent ]
I will say one thing about the Bankruptcy Bill... (4.00 / 1)
As someone who had to file last year after my business failed and I borrowed a TON on my credit cards to keep it afloat and pay my bills (yes I realize the irony), I think the new law sucks.  BUT.... it does pretty much assure you of no surprises.  Those who get in CH 7 are in...They don't have to worry about a judge screwing them later.   Its the CH13ers that really got shafted, not to mention the BS length it stays on your record.  

Personally I am fine with limits on how many times you can file CH 7 in a time period.  Unless you get really sick and the CH7 is due to medical (which should be an exception), then there is something seriously wrong if you file twice in a few years time.   And abuse should not be tolerated (like the Simpsons where homer finishes his basement and then tries and files CH7)... but people should be allowed this forgiveness... It helps them out and really does give them a fresh starts.  There are a few aspects of the bill that aren't bad (required counseling for example) but it does need to be rewritten.

[ Parent ]
For me, that's the real killer (0.00 / 0)
and I don't see what Biden brings to the ticket that Dodd wouldn't (n.b., I support Sebelius if Gore really won't take it), unless Obama really wants to buy into Biden's proposal to impose a partition of Iraq into Sunni, Shi'ite, and Kurdish sectors, like it or not.  (Is that what we want to be debating for the next two months?)

But here's my impression of an GOP spokesperson if Biden is chosen:

Obama says that we're not paying attention to the middle-class, but as his Vice-Presidential choice Joe Biden said when he sponsored the bill to make it harder for people to file bankruptcy....

Obama's proposals on housing are at odds with what his Vice-Presidential choice Joe Biden said when he was pushing the bankruptcy bill....

I don't understand why Barack Obama talks about predatory lending practices when his running mate Joe Biden wrote the bill making it harder for people to declare bankruptcy....

Joe Biden showed that he could work with Republicans on economic issues when he authored the Bankruptcy Bill, but Barack Obama stuck to his party line....

I thought that the Cubs did pretty well in that last playoff game, which reminds me that Barack Obama's running-mate Joe Biden sponsored the bill making it harder for people to declare bankruptcy....

My wife will have the Oysters Rockefeller and I'll have the Joe Biden made it harder for people to declare bankruptcy, which John McCain supported because he was a POW rather than a lobbyist like Biden....

Arf-arf-arf Joe Biden arf-arf-arf-arf made it harder to declare bankruptcy arf-arf.

Remember, these are Republicans aiming for low-information voters.  It doesn't have to make sense.  It just has to work.

I speak only for myself, not for those voices in the next room that won't leave me alone.

[ Parent ]
Plagiarism (0.00 / 0)
Biden's plagiarism scandal, combined with Obama's plagiarism scandal would turn them into a GOP shooting gallery. Biden Obama -- all they have are fancy words, and they're not even their own words.

I don't know the subtleties of selecting a VP nominee, but Biden seems to enhance one of Obama's weaknesses, without supporting any of his strengths. Biden seems to me to be a bad pick.

eh (4.00 / 1)
McCain has his own plagiarism story, or at least is embellishing his POW tales by ripping off somebody else's war tales.  

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers
[ Parent ]
Do You Have A Fork? (0.00 / 0)
I'll stab it into my own eye when the press runs with that story.
[ Parent ]
i have a fork for you (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
wrong link (although it was raised in that chat) (0.00 / 0)
http://religionblog.dallasnews...

still not on the "formal" news pages

[ Parent ]
I Mean Real Coverage (0.00 / 0)
These things always get coverage on page seventeen. I'm talking about real coverage. I'm talking about Tom Brokaw asking McCain about it to his face with God and everybody watching.
[ Parent ]
Biden's story is old news (4.00 / 1)
Who cares about some ancient pseudo-scandal from 20 years ago? Really?  I mean, if that becomes a story then I guess we should turn Keating 5 into a story again.

It's old news and voters don't care about it.  Hell, they barely care about scandals that happened six months ago.

As long as Biden doesn't insult any minority groups, he'll be fantastic. He isn't a reinforcing pick, but he is a complementary pick.

[ Parent ]
Who Cares Indeed? (0.00 / 0)
Ya, who cares what Barack's pals said 10 years ago, or what drugs he did 30 years ago, or who crashed a plane 50 years ago. That's all old news that never gets brought up anymore.
[ Parent ]
Yeah, let's focus on the 80's... (0.00 / 0)
Biden quoted Neal Kinnock 17 times, and forgot to attribute the quote once.  Ooh, plagiarism!

McCain was one of the Keating 5, who got us into the whole S&L debacle.  I know that Wikipedia isn't the best source, but let's take a trip on Memory Lane:

McCain and Keating had become personal friends following their initial contacts in 1981. Between 1982 and 1987, McCain had received $112,000 in lawful political contributions from Keating and his associates. In addition, McCain's wife Cindy McCain and her father Jim Hensley had invested $359,100 in a Keating shopping center in April 1986, a year before McCain met with the regulators. McCain, his family, and their baby-sitter had made nine trips at Keating's expense, sometimes aboard Keating's jet. Three of the trips were made during vacations to Keating's opulent Bahamas retreat at Cat Cay.

Of course, I'm assuming that anyone in the MSM would go there.  Silly me.


War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength; McCain/Palin 2008

[ Parent ]
Mock It All You Want (0.00 / 0)
But the traditional media has made more hay out of lesser scandals.
[ Parent ]
I'd be fine with Biden (4.00 / 1)
What he lacks in sexiness and consistency he more than makes up for as a speaker.

The need for an effective attack dog -- and Biden is nothing if not that -- rises on a daily basis. He's confident, fearless, quick on his feet and funny.

Still not my favorite. I'm loving this Gore buzz, however improbable it may be.

TXT ME TEH VEEP PLS (4.00 / 1)
The one reason why I think Gore might actually be the pick is because of the whole e-mail/txt announcement thing.

Why bother texting every kid with a cell phone about the veep pick unless it's gonna be someone that every kid already knows.

Nobody knows who Kaine is outside of Virginia and political junkies.

[ Parent ]
I'm sure the text (0.00 / 0)
Will contain some bio information.  And people who sign up for the text messages are usually a bit more informed than the average "kid with a cell phone".
[ Parent ]
I'm No Texting Maniac (4.00 / 1)
But my experience is that texting relies on tersity. A bio would be great on a Web page, or a mailer, but in a text, what kind of a bio can you get out?

Kaine is rl good gvnr & rl good democrt. TRUSTME. ECON DEGREE!

[ Parent ]
Please... (0.00 / 0)
Not every texter uses pidgen english like an illiterate dumbass.   Plus remember... there are TONS of tools that you can type from your computer and send it via text...  Servers, Bluetooth cell connection, etc.
[ Parent ]
i'm speculating like an oil trader, but (0.00 / 0)
"In two key ways--Iraq judgment and "change" election--that is very much the opposite of Barack Obama, and could muddle his message."

I think it would complement more than muddle (Dan Quayle didn't muddle George Bush I, Cheney didn't muddle Bush II, etc.).  1) Biden will toe the party line if he's the VP and say that he was wrong (about whatever...the war, washington, being in office for so long...) and it will allow Obama to create "unity" while having someone who could be perceived as an insider say "look, i see the error of my ways, he's right - this place IS f@#ked up!" It's sort of like how Richard Clarke helped undermine the image of the Bush Administration on terrorism and war (for me anyway, and probably anyone else who was paying attention)

2) tens of millions of voters were wrong about the Iraq war (including the half of the electorate that continued to vote for Bush in 2004), so it's not detrimental to given them a dignified climbdown, as you say;

3) lots of voters don't want "change"...meaning racial identity change - allowing people who need it the reassurance that they want on race will be soothing (and Obama likes to soothe) while allowing them to push the "anti-dumb" constructive-solution Obama agenda (even when it is dumb).

I agree he might be the most inoffensive and useful of the remaining middle aged White dudes under consideration - the only thing i fear from him beyond that i have to hold my nose a bit is that he has a tendency to put his foot in his mouth.  and he won't help with any states.  but as a calculated choice for obama's brand of "change" he seems to make sense.

Oddly, a couple of semi-engaged Dems I (4.00 / 1)
saw over the weekend were positively glowing about Biden. I'm still not sure why. They don't follow politics all that closely. But they them some Biden.

Seems like very limited downside to me. He's a great attack dog. An egomaniac in the right way. And he's too old be be looking at the top of the ticket in 2016.

Well, a possible scandal: he named one son 'Beau.'

[ Parent ]
Ditto (0.00 / 0)
Two liberal Democrats I know are nervous about Obama's inexperience and lack of detail in his discourse (their perception) and feel very comfortable with Biden. I think Biden would be an effective complement to Obama, especially with voters in late middle age and older. And he might throw McCain off his stride.
[ Parent ]
If Biden is Obama's VP runningmate. (0.00 / 0)
Then in 2016- Mark Warner will be the Democratic Standard Bearer for the 2016 Presidential Election. We just have to make sure his 2014 re-election does not end up like Chuck Robb.  
[ Parent ]
The blogosphere approves! (4.00 / 2)
The reviews are in; Biden has taken the blogosphere by storm!

"[T]he most inoffensive and useful of the remaining middle aged White dudes under consideration," cheers Dr. Anonymous.

"[A] testament to how poor the crop of potential candidates is," croons Chris.

While Matt (not that one, no, not that other one, either) H declares "[w]hat he lacks in sexiness and consistency he more than makes up for as a speaker."

heh (0.00 / 0)
Can we slap a David Manning blurb in there?  

"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers
[ Parent ]
Find myself agreeing with you (4.00 / 1)
Biden wasn't pro-war and tried to have an alternative resolution; last few years he's been a voal war critic.  He mirrors the thinking of the majority.  he reassures older voters and many well-informed peope whoi thoguht he was the best qualified.   Obama has the charisma and energizes youth, Biden reassures older, white voters and can attack McCain.  A good combination.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.
Biden can bee seen as helping (4.00 / 1)
to change the "mindset that got us into this war," even though he voted for it.
Compared to McCain/Scheunemann, he's a staunch realist, and he'll forcefully endorse and explicate Obama's foreign policy vision (even while working to strengthen and tweak it here and there). He can be a crucial part of how we change the foreign relations face of America to the world.

Also, his experience could be spun as "changing Washington from the inside out." Of course, so could Clinton's, but that'll just have to be glossed over. And anyway she will be a full partner in finally securing the change we need in health care.

Cottle's good profile of Valerie Jarrett in TNR shows just how much Obama is more comfortable with attempting to reform institutions from the inside, as opposed to challenging them from the outside. Biden fits into that comfort zone.
http://www.tnr.com/politics/st...

I'd be happy with Joe Biden (0.00 / 0)
not only for the personal plusses he can bring to the campaign and to the VP position, but he would not be likely to be replaced by a Republican in the Senate, as would be the case with Dodd or Bayh.
I think Biden (4.00 / 1)
got a lot of goodwill from his Presidential campaign.  Though he was never going to win, his performance in the debates impressed a lot of people, and I think softened opposition to him.

Insert shameless blog promotion here.
Bayh is not the worst of all.... (0.00 / 0)
he would be a loyal supporter who will not step off the path. He will not overshadow Obama in any way. And he shores up the other "wing" of the party. We need them, as long as they don't gain dominance.

We've got Obama at the top so don't worry about the ideology of no. 2. Bayh has tremendous advantages to balance the ticket in a number of ways as well as bring in Indiana, Michigan and Ohio. A midwest sweep will win.

Biden is too much the blowhard. He will do and say things that will divert attention. We all know that.

De jure (0.00 / 0)
I love it when I try to take political advice from people who include foreign phrases in their posts. I've always thought that, that is, knowing foreign phrases, was the big difference between my very good public education, and someone else's private education. The Choates and Exeters had a familiarity with foreign phrases that I was never exposed to.

I think you mean "du jour" as in soup du jour. Good to know that I'm not as dumb or elitist as I thought.

And *I* love it when (0.00 / 0)
my own incorrect usage is brought to my attention. (What thoughtful person wants to be seen as a stupid or careless fool?)

For I also like to use foreign phrases when they're appropriate -- though I choose to use them for the precision of thought they can convey, and a strong belief in the importance of honoring and maintaining the polyglot nature of our societal conversations, rather than any notions of class, place, or privilege.

When I take the time to publicly correct someone's usage (which occasionally I do -- I think that's also a noble and important task), I try to be informative - helpful rather than sneering.  Had I noticed an incorrect use of "de jure" that stuck in my craw, I'd likely have offered the poster the distinction between the two near-homonyms.  In addition to offering the correct spelling for "du jour", I might have included this passage from Wikipedia's entry on "de facto" - you know, just to help out a fellow traveler upon the road:

De facto is a Latin expression that means "of the fact" or "in practice" but not ordained by law. It is commonly used in contrast to de jure (which means "by law") when referring to matters of law, governance, or technique (such as standards) that are found in the common experience as created or developed without or contrary to a regulation. When discussing a legal situation, de jure designates what the law says, while de facto designates action of what happens in practice. It is analogous and similar to the expressions "for all intents and purposes" and "in practice."


[ Parent ]
Biden (4.00 / 1)
Biden would be like a wild dog in a butcher shop in that VP debate.

I don't need a candidate to be perfect on the issues to be VP; I want a candidate that isn't afraid to kick some ass.

That frees up Obama to talk about hope and change while his consigliere is out there cutting McCain to pieces.

Not Going To Freak Out Over Biden | 52 comments
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