Hillary Clinton

by: tremayne

Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 00:42


No, I didn't get a text message. Just a hunch and this post might look really dumb very shortly. Partly, it's based on the process of elimination. The supposed final 3 were Joe Biden, Evan Bayh and Tim Kaine. Two days ago Biden was asked where he'd be this Saturday and he said "here" (in Delaware) and then followed up with "I'm not the guy." If he was just trying to deflect attention away that was an overly definitive statement. I think he's not the guy. While he'd bring a lot to the ticket he carries some risk, perhaps too much for the careful Obama.

Follow along for the rest.
tremayne :: Hillary Clinton

As I've argued before, I think the schedule would be odd for a Virginia VP pick. You spend 2 days in VA and then leave to make the announcement somewhere else? And then you go (reportedly) to Indiana? Plus, there's this from Ambinder:

VA Dems pessimistic about Kaine's chances after reading his body language.

There was also an unconfirmed report that Kaine hadn't tested well compared to Warner with Virginia voters. If the main reason for his selction is to carry Virginia and that's not a certainty, do you pick him?

Bayh would be totally uninspired. It would say "I have this election in the bag and all I want my VP to do is not say anything stupid for 2 months." The strongest signal that it's Bayh is that we have heard so little from his camp. And that kind of discipline might be very appealing to Obama. So, of the three, and with the Indiana event that has been reported, I would predict Bayh. 

But there are some reasons to think Obama might do something unexpected, something like going with Clinton. Here are some:

1. The race is undeniably close at this point. The Obama team may have a much superior ground machine but that sounds a little too much like wishful thinking for me. Obama wants to win and there is reason to believe that Obama support among Dems would move toward the 90% range if Clinton is the VP. It may move in that direction anyway but do you really want to leave that to chance?

2. The Clintons would complicate Obama's White House. But Obama is a pretty confident guy. Like Bill Clinton of the 1990s, he is pretty good at compromise. I am sure he is cognizant of the potential problems and also confident in his own ability to deal with it.

3. It goes against brand but maybe it doesn't. He's for change and HRC represents the past. But she, like he, would make history with a victory in November. In that sense they both represent significant cultural change.

4. Obama needs somebody (if he realizes it) who is willing to throw sharp elbows and dirty punches. He gets 2 such people with the Clintons. Bill used to be somewhat subtle with the putdowns but that was then and this is now.

5. If, in June, Clinton told you she should be your VP and you were seriously considering it, what would you do? You would probably tell her that the only way it could happen is if you wholeheartedly endorse me, make it clear you have gotten over the joint ticket idea, have those under your influence (such as the "Vote Both" folks) drop all of their efforts on HRC's behalf. You'd say, I can't look weak by picking you, like I was forced by circumstance. It must look like a choice I made that I didn't have to make but I did because I'm such a big person and I care about the country and I care about victory.

6. If, given the bitterness and length of the primaries, HRC came to you and said "I want to have my name formally submitted for nomination," would you say "sure" and also reward both Clinton's with high-profile speeches at the convention? Wouldn't you be a little worried about that? Unless of course you already had a VP deal in the works too.

7. There's no time left for McCain to raise "scary Hillary Clinton" money for his campaign because he switches to public financing in 13 days. The RNC can raise money this way but then again, Hill and Bill are pretty good fundraisers who would free Obama from those duties for the fall.

8. I've heard that Obama has a sense of theatrics and staging. Does he really think Obama-Bayh is exciting?

Okay, that's enough. Like I said, this will probably look dumb but who knows. I think when the only option is Bayh you really hope for anything that would be more exciting than that. Like "Obama-Can of Paint, 2008" 


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Hillary Clinton | 87 comments
I felt that if there was no announcment... (4.00 / 1)
...prior to the convention, then Hillary would be the surprise choice, which would be talked about for weeks afterwards... even overshadowing the RNC convention...

This house-gate thing has complicated my prediction, though...   obviously, Obama wants this story to simmer for awhile.... so,  who knows!

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!


the trouble is (4.00 / 3)
Obama's people were far too definitive earlier this summer about him not wanting Hillary. If he picks her now (which wouldn't be a bad choice, in my opinion), journalists may say he only picked her because he needed her to win. And I don't think he can tolerate that as the story.

Of the other three, I just hope it's Biden. I see fewer downsides than I do with Bayh or Kaine, and I think Biden would help more with voters over 60 than Bayh or Kaine would.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.


[ Parent ]
I think it will be Biden (0.00 / 0)
I wish he brought a state with him, but he should help Obama nail down Pennsylvania, at least.


[ Parent ]
Obama did not say he didnt want her (4.00 / 2)
And the campaign did not either. I cannot think of a member of the4 campaign that spoke as an individual. Lots of Obama supporters said it wouldn't be a good idea, but supporters are just that. No more than fans.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
good logic (0.00 / 0)
I just hope Obama and his crowsd have the sense to do this. If not, I can't say for sure I'll vote for him

Enjoy the overturning of Roe v. Wade! (4.00 / 8)


[ Parent ]
So what's your point? (4.00 / 2)
Do you mean you'd vote for McCain, a third party candidate or just stay home? I guess in California it wouldn't make much difference.

Obama is a good Democrat. Give it up.


[ Parent ]
i dont know why im going to indulge you (4.00 / 8)
but Obama solid my ass down the river with the FISA BS, I had the campaign refund ALL my primary donations, and yet OF COURSE I'm going to vote for him in Nov. Jesus - i can't believe this kind of PUMA-tardation talk is still going on. No, I'm not going to be nice about it either. "I'm not sure I'll vote for him", if he doen't pick who you want to be VP? it's ridiculous. give us break.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

[ Parent ]
This makes sense to me... (0.00 / 0)
I think HRC is probably more likely than some other "surprise" candidate, like Daschle. After Clinton having run a close race, Obama has the problem, more so than McCain, of having his VP pick look lame -- not like a winner. HRC leads by the principle of non-lameness: she is good at getting votes and money. None of the other "front runners" for VP have that.

I'm almost in the "anybody by Bayh or Kaine camp" by now.


im with you (4.00 / 1)
they way they are pumping this stupid vp announcement they have corned themselves into having to pick a dramatic headline grabbing name. Plane and Blah don't cut it, plus the schedule made no sense for Kaine per your comments.

So then its Biden, Sebelius or Clinton. Biden is a sharp talker, but I don't take him for much of a poker player. He would be exciting. So I give him a shot still, but like you say I don't have confidence that he was throwing the media off this week. He's one to speak what's on his mind - that's not a trait for keeping secrets.

This leaves the ladies. And with the PUMA-tards running around with their heads cut off still, and this now being a neck and neck race, I don't see him picking Sebelius. Bayh is just so boooooring. So, Clinton it is, because he made this stupid vp pick into a big drama dance.

If Obama never wanted Clinton on the ticket, and he does pick her, its because of his own campaign's fault building up this vp announcement without a good alternate to Clinton in the works.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare


a little much (4.00 / 4)
He's not picking a news headline, he's picking someone who's going to be an integral part of his administration for the next (hopefully) 8 years.

Above all he has to be comfortable with the person and know that he can work with them, not just whether it will fill a news hole for a good period of time.


[ Parent ]
They're the ones making the big drama out of it (4.00 / 1)
First their press secretary sending a fake out email yesterday, then today Obama making a statement to the press that he's picked a vp but he's not saying. A total non-story an it was front page of every major and minor news site. its not about "comfort" or an "integral part", its about press press press and generating emotional excitement about the campaign.  

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

[ Parent ]
it can be two things at once (4.00 / 2)
I'm just saying that they're trying to milk the story but the VP isn't going to be just a news story. They're not that stupid.

And I would suggest that the major front-page news was McCain's house gaffe, not Obama saying "I've made my decision". Which, duh, of course he's made by now. He has less than a week until the convention!


[ Parent ]
looking at the short list I dont see too many matching your premise (0.00 / 0)
As I look at it, i just don't see that much of the short list is about anything other than either scoring headlines or winning votes.

Bayh - win Indiana
Kaine - win Virginia
Sebelius - win Kansas and massive press for picking a woman
Clinton - pumatard votes, massive press, impossible to work with!

to me Biden is the only one on the list of which the pick might be about picking someone really sharp - the guy talks some serious foreign policy talk. and he gets you some good press, but doesnt win a state, and his press isn't earth shattering like Sebelius or Clinton.

so I just don't see the VP as "cabinet asset" as something they are making a priority. Unless they pick Biden, in which I'll I celebrate and buy you a beer that you can enjoy over a dinner of my words.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare


[ Parent ]
yeah but your name isn't Obama (0.00 / 0)
who knows what he thinks about these guys? We can't get in his head. We have no idea who he gets along with and who he thinks would make a good VP.

[ Parent ]
we know whats before us (0.00 / 0)
assuming he's picking one of them other than for the most obvious of reasons is a bigger leap of faith than just going with the obvious reason. such speculation is reminiscent of the speculation about Obama's secret grand FISA plan that we just can't imagine because he's so many steps ahead of us.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

[ Parent ]
True but, (0.00 / 0)
There is one very important flaw in your argument.

saying it is obvious that he's looking at them for the states and votes they bring with them is overlooking the fact that the majority don't bring states or votes with them.

How "obvious" can your reasoning be it be if your reasoning isn't correct?


[ Parent ]
He's not winning Kansas, even with Sebelius (4.00 / 2)
I"m pretty sure that everyone knows this.  Sebelius's whole message is completely in line with his.  She would be a choice designed to be soemone that he can work with.

[ Parent ]
Nonsense (0.00 / 0)
Kaine has no pull in his state. If Obama wins it'll be because warner's name is listed down ticket.
Sebelius won't bring Kansas with her to his column. no way no how.
Clinton doesn't bring a state with her as well.

The only one who could possible influence his state his Bayh. But not the 6 points that are needed now.

I don't see it.


[ Parent ]
Not sure about Clinton (0.00 / 0)
I think if she spends the whole campaign in Florida and Ohio she gains the ticket at least a few points each. And that may be enough.

[ Parent ]
I'm ready for Hillary (0.00 / 0)
Especially given your #4.  

The best argument for a Hillary pick (4.00 / 1)
is the element of surprise.  I'd hate for all this build up to wind up being anticlimactic.

Of course, I'm still kinda hoping for a Clark surprise or, dare I say it? A Powell surprise.

But - I would be pretty content with a Biden pick.  I liked him during the primaries.

QT

Visit the Obama Project


WindOnWater.net




Powell? .. (4.00 / 4)
After his disaster at the UN?  He'd get laughed off the world stage.

[ Parent ]
and we'd have to take all the LOLPowell photos down (0.00 / 0)


Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

[ Parent ]
Oh Yeah (0.00 / 0)
All those people who ramped up for the war are all getting laughed off the world stage right now -- Hillary Clinton, David Brooks, Arlin Specter, Milton Friedman, they can't show their faces in public anymore for fear of being pelted with rotten vegetables.

While it would be awesome if the people responsible for the war would have to live in a cave of shame for the rest of their lives, the fact is, the world goes on turning and nobody really cares to hold anybody accountable.


[ Parent ]
Milton Friedman, the economist? (0.00 / 0)
Isn't he dead?


[ Parent ]
WHOOPS! (0.00 / 0)
I meant Thomas Friedman. Ha!

[ Parent ]
Powell? Are you a Republican? (4.00 / 3)
After what he did, how anyone could support Powell for anything is a mystery.   Much of Obama's base already think he's too centrist. Picking Hillary or Powell would only prove it.  

he is pretty good at compromise
 This is not a good thing. A leader leads, s/he doesn't buy or compromise his way to the door.  

They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

[ Parent ]
Exactly... (4.00 / 1)
Sadly Biden or Clinton are looking like the only choices that would make me breath a sigh of relief.  If he chooses a conservative Democrat or an out-and-out conservative, it really is a bad sign.  At least Biden and Clinton signal a slightly less right-wing version of centrists in the White House.  At this point I'd take Clinton just because I think she gives us the best chance to win the election by completely overshadowing the Republicans rather than any hope she will be effective (much less non-divisive) in the role.  Even a fractured Democratic executive branch is better than a Republican one and might in fact allow Congress to take back their mantle as a co-equal branch of our government.

We really do need to focus on more and better Democrats in Congress, it may be decades before a progressive even gets a whiff of the Democratic nomination, much less a VP nod.  


[ Parent ]
Key word is better. I'm done with more and bad. n.t (0.00 / 0)


They're asking for another four years -- in a just world, they'd get 10 to 20. ~~ Dennis Kucinich  

[ Parent ]
I for one would be fine with Powell n/t (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Complications On My Complications (0.00 / 0)
"The Clintons would complicate Obama's White House."

The thing is, they'd complicate the Obama White House regardless. She's still a Senator and he's still the Ex-President. So I don't really think that's a concern, since it's basically six of one, half a dozen of the other.


I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it'll be... (0.00 / 0)
Mark Warner.

Mostly cause I hope it is.

John McCain.  Wrong for America.


It is a women, but not Hillary! (0.00 / 0)
Looking at all the events (and obama's criteria) It is Sebelius, no two ways about it.

Remember who called it first!

/very excited


I Still Say its gonna be a dark horse (0.00 / 0)
Like Daschle or Schweitzer.  But out of all the "known" candidates Clinton is the one that makes the most sense given all the known information.

As for the "cathartic" moment she talks about...  I for one needed all summer to remember that her and her husband are worth having around.  Not so much a 'moment', more like a long sweat.

This comment is under surveillance


Obama is stopping in Montana before the convention... (4.00 / 5)
So you never know. Actually, I always thought Schweitzer made perfect sense for Obama. Red state gov. Westerner. Speaks Arabic (which would obviously be a huge plus, though I wonder if it might not dementedly feed the chthonic fear in America of the manchurian muslim terrorist scary foreigner candidate). Energy is his big issue. And was against the Iraq war, right? It's always surprised me that we havent heard his name floated more often.

[ Parent ]
But (4.00 / 1)
Obama is stopping to campaign in Billings, Montana on next Tuesday evening, before going to Denver on Wednesday morning. Governor Schweitzer is scheduled to give a talk on energy and the West at the convention on Tuesday evening, so he won't even get to meet Obama in Billings.

Just a fun note; this is Obama's fifth visit to Montana this year, a state that he has 16 field offices in. McCain's last visit was in October of 2000, when he campaigned for the former senator Conman Burns. Number of McCain field offices in Big Sky Country? Zero.


[ Parent ]
Wait, back up (4.00 / 2)
The supposed final 3 were Joe Biden, Evan Bayh and Tim Kaine

According to who?


According to Candy Crowley (4.00 / 5)
who got it from Andrea Mitchell who got it from Mark Halperin who got it from Marc Ambinder who got it from Paul Begala who got it from Chris Matthews who got it from Candy Crowley.

It's the MSM's version of the clap. A viscious circular one, at that.


[ Parent ]
And Candy Crowley .. (0.00 / 0)
was the one .. who once was making fun(on air I believe .. but it was caught on tape at the least) .. of Dennis Kucinich being ugly .. which .. is pretty rich coming from her

[ Parent ]
Bill's Wild (Library) Card (4.00 / 2)
Good conjecture, but... Bill's Library and Foundation Donor List Quid Pro Quo mess is still out there as an open question, for the Wurlitzer to screech about, and for the media to gladly return to--they have dearly wanted to get to the bottom of it, and they will consider it a moral imperative.

You're right, Obama is careful, and cautious. For Obama to choose Hillary, he would have had to demand those lists--in utter secrecy because no one has reported an inkling that was even considered--and Bill would have had to acquiesce. Did it look this summer as if he had done that? They would have to be vetted to the letter, AND they would have to be clean.

To go forward with Hillary as VP, every Library and Foundation donor-related fact would then have to be divulged.

Obama could not run with her if she and Bill continued to stonewall on the Foundation and Library: his own campaign demanded that she release the records. And it would be resurrecting, perhaps fatally, the Clintonian instinct for obfuscation that Obama ran in no small part against.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/swee...


David Axelrod, Obama's top strategist, said, "Sen. Clinton and her campaign says she is fully vetted, but the truth is that she is a veteran of non-disclosure. In this campaign, we have set a standard. Sen. Obama has released his tax returns, he has released his earmark requests, and he has been forthcoming on these and other issues."

Clinton chief spokesman Howard Wolfson said in reply, "They are running a campaign that is designed to tear down Sen. Clinton's character using Republican talking points." He added that "when you accuse somebody of being disingenuous and question their integrity and their honesty, as they are doing, that constitutes a personal attack."

Obama communications chief Robert Gibbs called for Clinton's income tax returns and schedules, earmark requests, donors to the Clinton presidential library and foundation, and to expedite release of her first lady records. "What is Sen. Clinton hiding and what is lurking in those documents that she believes voters don't have a right to know?" Gibbs asked.



Things That Give Me Hope (4.00 / 4)
1) He's not making us wait this long for a dud.
2) He's not giving his supporters first notice for a dud.
3) He allegedly made the decision while on vacation in Hawaii -- away from the mind-numbing campaign and consultants.
4) As has become abundantly clear, the chattering classes have no clue who the pick really is.
5) He's not an idiot.

At this point, I'm pretty sure he's going to choose someone with an "oh wow" factor -- which rules out Bayh, Kaine, and Daschle, thank god, and probably Biden (also Dodd, and Feingold who I'd guess would be more of a "huh" than an "oh wow" for most people). Up go the chances of people like Hillary, Clark, Gore, probably Sebelius, possibly Schweitzer, Warner.

I think at the moment, I'd give it a 60% chance that our next VP nominee will be a lady.


And I'm hoping we're not setting ourselves up (4.00 / 1)
for heartbreak.

Call it the Evan Bayh Blues.


[ Parent ]
Clinton as relief... (0.00 / 0)
Is it just me, or has Clinton suddenly risen to near the top of the seemingly most likely VPs?  Really... At this point, it's Clark, then Clinton, then Biden for me... And Clark is sort of a long-shot anyway, but I guess I'm still considering him a "potential" solely based on the fact that he's not scheduled to speak at the convention yet, and I can't believe they would be so stupid as to not have him speak at the convention.

Around here I guess. (0.00 / 0)
I still don't see a lot of speculation about her getting Veep in the Corporate Media.

[ Parent ]
Also (4.00 / 1)
for those of you hoping for the Clintons as attack dogs: remember that comment Bill made about how they're great friends with McCain and how boring the election would be if they were to win? (Not determinative or anything, but worth mentioning).

It makes sense... (4.00 / 1)
If I were Obama and planned to pick Hillary all along, this is what I would do:

First, give a strong indication that it won't be Hillary to quell the fervent demand that he pick her, making him look weak for picking her. He did this in hiring Patti Solis Doyle as the VP's chief of staff and raising hypotheticals about the difficulties in vetting her. After these two moves, most mainstream news sources stopped mentioning her as a possibility.

Second, mention everyone else under the sun. This gave huge exposure to Democrats over the summer, introducing to the national stage several people who most of us were somewhat unfamiliar with, and creating new prominent surrogates.

Third, build up your own resume, introducing yourself to voters, proving your ability to stand on your own on the national stage without someone overshadowing you.

Fourth, let McCain go dirty on you without responding in kind. Let the voters remember that he started hitting below the belt first. Then you can unleash the bare-knuckled Hillary to hit him hard while still seeming to have taken the high road.

Fifth, tamp down speculation in advance that Hillary and Bill would run rampant in the White House the way Cheney has. Yesterday: "Let me tell you first what I won't do. I won't hand over my energy policy to my vice president, without knowing necessarily what he's doing. I wont have my vice president engineering my foreign policy for me. The buck will stop with me, because I will be the president."

The narrative kind of fits ... especially since the Hillary possibility has taken off this week and Obama hasn't done anything to tamp down those expectations. He knows that he's losing a lot of Hillary voters to McCain at the moment, and to give them hope but to then dash it again is rubbing salt into wounds.

And last but not least, choosing Bill to introduce the VP always seemed a bit curious to me. Does Bill even know people like Kaine who took office after his presidency ended? Why would he be the best person to introduce a casual acquaintance? If it were Sebelius, wouldn't it make him uneasy to introduce a historic White House run for a woman that wasn't his wife? It really did point to Hillary herself or at least a long-time associate like Clark or Bayh. But given Bill's tepid feelings toward Obama, you'd want to stick him in a more symbolic slot like in the opening salvo if you felt he was going to be unenthusiastic.

Of course, it's all just tea leaves right now.


I can't believe I'm contributing to this nonsense.... (4.00 / 2)
....but just pointing out that Clark will have some kind of walk-on part at the end of the convention.

I would so like to believe that the gutless treatment of Clark actually hides some clever head fake, but that's like believing in the tooth fairy or a secret masterplan to roll back the FISA cave.....


Yeah, I dream of the Secret Masterplan (4.00 / 2)
making all my Obama-doubts look completely idiotic.

Of course, I also dreamed last night that Obama chose Obama for VP and tapped Gore for President. Seriously, I dreamed about the upcoming convention, Obama turning this thing on its head by going Gore/Obama.

Ah, for the days when I dreamed simple dreams of Scarlett Johanson ...


[ Parent ]
Re: Yeah, I dream of the Secret Masterplan (0.00 / 0)
I'm embarrassed to admit that I've also had two dreams about this.  

First, on Tuesday night, it was Carl Levin.  Then last night it was Tom Daschle.  I've never consciously thought about either as a serious possibility, especially the former.

Ridiculous as they may seem (particularly Levin), my dreams are now on the record.
I still hold out hope for Wes Clark.  My next choice would be Warner, then Sebelius.

I think if Biden is the pick, it will only be for the first term.  The campaign is strategically pushing the convention spotlight onto the 2012 running mate- Mark Warner.  That'll be a perfect launchpad for him in 2016.


[ Parent ]
When Clinton Went to the Senate (0.00 / 0)
she kept her head down and stuck to her homework.  I think she understands only too well how she has to behave as VP-don't showboat him, stay in the background, etc.  I think fears that she would make his Presidency a living hell are unfounded.

It's not her....it's Bill. (0.00 / 0)
I don't think anybody has any fears about Hillary being a good Veep; it's Bill turning everything into some kind of goddamned soap opera.

[ Parent ]
Two other points (0.00 / 0)
You brought up the issues of Obama's brand of "change."  But he has a second brand- "unity."  Even if this pick doesn't reinforce the first, it reinforces the second (unity among Democrats).

I'd also note that Obama in the past repeatedly praised Goodwin's "Team of Rivals."  

Saxby Chambliss  


And the obvious response is one Hillary used frequently... (0.00 / 0)
...a woman on a national ticket is the opitomy of "Change".

[ Parent ]
I think it is either Sebelius, Clark or Clinton (0.00 / 0)
Since Hillary was born and raised in Illinois and because the first joint appearance is in Illinois I'll go for Obama/Clinton.

I can't believe I'm saying this but (0.00 / 0)
I hope it's Hillary.

Well if it is, the "campaign" to make her acceptable... (0.00 / 0)
..has worked!

[ Parent ]
Ditto (0.00 / 0)
I can't see it being Clark.  Hillary's more progressive than Kaine or Bayh.  Biden is the polar opposite of change.  

Saxby Chambliss  

[ Parent ]
I'm fine with Biden but (0.00 / 0)
Hillary is the only one that guarantees a massive, prolonged convention bump.

[ Parent ]
this is the way i have been (0.00 / 0)
thinking the last two weeks and with the alternatives this is what i am hoping will occur this weekend. a hilary vp announcement will energize the whole party and although it will pump up the right it will also pump up the left and women make up the majority of the electorate.

we already know the right won't vote for a black candidate, lets give them a woman just so they don't feel too bad about their prejudice, i bet we get some female right wingers along the trail also. don't forget hilary is an illinois gal herself.


More murmurs... (0.00 / 0)
http://greenmountaindaily.com/...

You can read more of JD Ryan at five before chaos, but why would you want to?

I can live with HRC (0.00 / 0)
That was a great post and for the first time ever I'm really liking this idea.  My problem with picking HRC before was that she wouldn't be a good "vice" anything.  Too dominant, her and bill always stealing the spotlight, etc.  But If she can fall in line behind Obama then I'm for it.  If i were a betting man I'd still say its biden, bayh or kaine, but your post makes a lot of sense.  

Remember who did the vetting though: Caroline Kennedy: not exactly a close personal friend of HRC.  And reuniting her with Patti Solis Doyle?  A lot of bad blood there too


Same Here (0.00 / 0)
It has the potential to be a Faustian bargain once governing actually starts, and I still get concerned that Clinton's name on the ticket will ignite the Right in a way that McCain will never, ever do -- BUT, in the wake of the last 24 hours, there's no question that if Hillary is on the ticket she will draw so much fire from the Republicans in addition to the slime that they're gonna throw at Obama that the slime will kind of cancel each other out.

And Obama will be able to stand WAY above the fray and look great in comparison.

On the other hand, I also still think that Howard Dean or Wesley Clark would have the same galvanizing effect and "OMG!" effect without the Clintonian hangover, so I still hold out hope it's Dean or Clark over Hillary.

And Biden would be fine, too.

Just not Bayh.


[ Parent ]
Branding (0.00 / 0)
What people worried about the effect on Obama's brand seem to be ignoring is that the last month have suggested is that the "new politics and change" brand is insufficient to win this election.  He's got to rebrand the campaign towards a tougher, more aggressive image anyway.

Hillary really is a no brainer from a strategic perspective.  If he goes in another direction and loses the campaign, this will be one of the most all time second guessed decisions in American electoral politics.


John McCain: Health insurance for low income children represents an "unfunded liability."


Er (4.00 / 1)
Crazy grammar in that first sentence, from some edits that never were completed.  Oops.

John McCain: Health insurance for low income children represents an "unfunded liability."

[ Parent ]
I am an Obama supporter and did not support Hillary (0.00 / 0)
and to be honest Hillary's campaign rubbed me the wrong way. BUT, she got people almost as excited as Barack did and she managed to make the race so close it will go down in the history books.

Combine people's enthusiasm for both, the fundraising prowess of both, his ability to attract independents and her ability to connect with the working class and you have a win-win situation.

I honestly never bought into the argument that she might upstage him or anything. And honestly, Bill Clinton as an adversary is one thing - imagine having the big dog as an enthusiastic supporter on top of his game reminding people of a better time.

I think this ticket would be really tough to beat.

Don't underestimate the power of a FULLY united democratic party.


FWIW (0.00 / 0)
Wayne Madsen is reporting that
1) Democratic former Pennsylvania Attorney General Philip C. Berg filed a complaint late today in the U.S. Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania "for an emergency temporary restraining order prohibiting Barack Obama from running for president, and enjoining the DNC from nominating Obama as the Democratic presidential candidate." The complaint wants the court to delcare that Obama is not a "natural citizen" and is not, therefore, qualified to run for President of the United States. The court is being asked for a temporary restraining order and expedited discovery. The defendant is named as: BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, a/k/a
BARRY SOETORO, a/k/a
BARRY OBAMA , a/k/a
BARACK DUNHAM, a/k/a
BARRY DUNHAM, THE
DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL
COMMITTEE, and THE FEDERAL
ELECTION COMMISSION  

Case number: Case #08-CV-4083

2)It is noteworthy that not only will there be a roll call vote for the presidential nominee at next week's Democratic National Convention in Denver but that Hillary Clinton has been given permission to have her whips, vote enforcers, placed on the convention floor. The legal action in Philadelphia yesterday may not be disconnected from what is transpiring behind the scenes in Denver. The Democratic nomination process may not be totally concluded. Obama was to have made his choice for Vice President known to the public on Thursday, August 21. He then said he made his choice but it will remain a secret for a short time. WMR has been told by Democratic Party insiders that there is some panic over the choice due to a possible floor challenge against Obama's candidacy from the floor. Such a challenge could be avoided if Obama chooses Clinton as his running mate.

DemocracyABC.org
TheRealNews.Com
http://www.pdamerica.org


It was reported elsewhere that... (0.00 / 0)
...the Clinton people are going to be on the floor to stop people causing trouble rather than causing trouble themselves.

[ Parent ]
Gotta say (4.00 / 1)
That sounds like a bunch of tinfoil hat bullshit, which is completely unsurprising considering the source.

John McCain: Health insurance for low income children represents an "unfunded liability."

[ Parent ]
Party Rules (0.00 / 0)
Madsen can write anything, but he clearly is not conscious of Democratic Party Rules as they apply to a challenge from the floor of the convention.

In order to do something like this, one would need to first get it before the Nominations and Rules Committees -- both have jurisdiction.  

I am not sure of the percentage, I think it is 15% of the seated delegates must petition for the committees to hear the challenge and rule, even before it could be recognized as a valid convention agenda item.  Good Luck finding some 5-600 Delegates willing to sign their names to such nonsense. Good luck getting more than 2/3rds to suspend the rules.  

The point of our convention rules is to put all the contested issues before the committees -- committees that have perhaps 200 or so Delegates or Alternates serving on them, and to make it very difficult if not impossible to bring nonsense to the floor without a full committee process.  Nancy Pelosi will be chairing the convention, and she would cut any effort to violate the rules off so fast no one would know what happened.    


[ Parent ]
Yeah, this is what I'm thinking... (0.00 / 0)
I too really had negative feelings toward Hillary by the end of the primaries, and I'm surprised that those have largely washed away. I mean, all that "count every vote" stuff... but seriously, who's going to remember that?  

Some other points:
1. The Clintons are as close to Teflon as you get. No one's going to get scandalized if they don't reveal everything. It's like a well-worn pair of jeans - thoroughly broken in. Everyone has decided on what they think - very little concern that a "new face" will come on the scene and start bringing negatives.
2. Let's face it: this will "invigorate" a lot of right-wingers, but who cares? If this swings 5-10% of moderate Dems in states like Florida, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Missouri - even ol' Arkansas?? - it's a pretty big win.
3. Is there any electoral downside, even in theory?
4. Clinton's senate seat will be filled by a Dem.


Obama Sounding As Though It is Clinton (0.00 / 0)
From USA TODAY, via Digby, this is what Obama said yesterday:

In an interview in Chester, Va., the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee said he's made up his mind, but he would not say whether he's informed that person yet. "I won't comment on anything else until I introduce our running mate to the world," he said. "That's all you're going to get out of me."

Obama said it was a difficult decision. "We had some great choices."

Obama said he wanted somebody who is "prepared to be president" and who will be "a partner with me in strengthening this economy for the middle class and working families."

He said he was looking for not just a partner but a sparring partner. "I want somebody who's independent, somebody who can push against my preconceived notions and challenge me so we have got a robust debate in the White House."


And Note: "Our Running Mate"..... (0.00 / 0)
is gender neutral.

[ Parent ]
As is "This person" (0.00 / 0)
"Obviously, the most important question is: Is this person ready to be president?" Obama said in an interview aired Friday on "The Early Show" on CBS. Second, he said, was: "Can this person help me govern? Are they going to be an effective partner in creating the kind of economic opportunity here at home and guiding us through some dangerous waters internationally?"

[ Parent ]
Ohio (0.00 / 0)
Ohio Ohio Ohio

Whomever can help win Ohio should be the VP. If we lose it, the paths to victory, while still there, become pretty nerve-wracking. Don't know how anyone on the short list can help except Hillary. God I wish Strickland hadn't taken his name out of the running.


Not to mention (0.00 / 0)
that our declining chances in Ohio become a lot more palatable if Florida, which is just out of reach right now, becomes in play.  And absolutely nobody is a better match for Florida's demographics than Clinton.

John McCain: Health insurance for low income children represents an "unfunded liability."

[ Parent ]
I always thought Virginia and Colorado were better bets than Ohio (0.00 / 0)
The demographic trends just seem a better fit for Obama.

[ Parent ]
I believe Obama's VP will be Chet Edwards (0.00 / 0)
With strong national security credentials and an ability to talk to voters from all walks of life, Edwards will prove to be an effective candidate.

I post under my real name. (0.00 / 0)
I don't hide behind a pseudonym.

[ Parent ]
Number 9 (0.00 / 0)
I suggest that the ninth consideration that points to Clinton is that she got almost as many votes in the primaries as did Obama.

There is no requirement that the second place finisher gets to be VP. But in the present case, where there are no sharp differences on the issues, and where the primaries were so close, I think it would honor the spirit of democracy to extend the offer to Clinton.

I am no fan of Clinton, especially after some of the tactics she used in the primaries. But nearly half of my Party voted for her, and it would be good to include them in a major way.


Six point for a President nominee is nothing (0.00 / 0)
For the second placed vp candidate it's huge.

Hillary Clinton | 87 comments
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