Biden & The Primacy Of The Inside Game

by: Paul Rosenberg

Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:55


I am, needless to say, underwhelmed by the choice of Joe Biden (D-MNBA). Sure he's better than Evan Bayh and Tim Kaine.  But that's an incredibly low bar.  Most of what people say he brings does not impress me, and his poor showing in his two presidential outings supports my conclusion.

What he does bring, I would argue, is a soothing reassurance to Versailles that "change we can believe in" will translate into "change you can live with", and it's going to be our job to push back against that, hard, in the years to come, if we are successful in November.

Picking Biden lines up with at least three significant moves by Obama since clinching the nomination:

    (1) His move to the right with FISA, NAFTA, etc. which pleased Versailles while losing him momentum with voters.

    (2) His relative passivity toward McCain's initial wave of attacks, which lost ground with voters, but may have faciliitated the beginnings of serious Versailles re-evaluation of McCain.

    (3) His heavy concentration on conventional foreign policy thinking in Wednesday's Security Fest at the convention, rather than, say, stressing the need for rebuilding soft power as a subsidiary point in a night devoted primarily to economic security at home.

In all three cases--four, including the pick of Biden--Obama has made moves that are costly with voters, but play well to Versailles.  And that, I would submit, is the core of his general election strategy.  This all hinges on a basic misperception on Obama's part--his focus on Reagan 1980 as his model (confused with 1984) of a "transformational" candidate as opposed to understanding the dynamics of a 1932-style realigning election.  Of course, that misperception is deeply rooted in who Obama is.  But it is a misperception all the same.

Paul Rosenberg :: Biden & The Primacy Of The Inside Game
My argument, in a nutshell, is not new.  Indeed, I haven't changed my basic perception of this campaign since I wrote my 4-part series, "Three Waves And A Wall: 2008 And The American Future back in February--articulating a viewpoint that I'd held for quite some time before that.  Here's is the argument of that series in a nutshell:

The 2008 election represents a collision of three historical waves with the wall of rightwing hegemony, which I described as "the intensely fortified network of rightwing organizations and their 'moderate' and 'centrist' enablers, together with the narratives they both depend upon and propagate."

Three waves are:

  1. The roughly 32-40 year cycle of American Party Systems, described by political theorists such as V.O. Key and Walter Dean Burnham.

  2. The rise and fall of successive world powers-Spain, Holland, Britain, and now us-described by former GOP uber-guru Kevin
    Phillips in Wealth and Democracy: A Political History of the American Rich.

  3. The recent wave of "post-materialist" values surveyed on a worldwide basis over the past several decades by the World Values Survey, and described most fully in the work of social scientist Ronald Inglehart.

Let me run through each of these, briefly.

The first wave--that of party realignments-- has been getting occassional notice of late, but is still largely absent from political narratives outside of the blogosphere.  It has been taken up by some prominent DKos diarists, including frontpagers, but on cable TV, not so much.  The thirst for realignment could fuel a 30-40 year shift in our political system along the lines of these previous distinct historical eras:


Partisan Balance In US History

Through Six Party Systems

Control of Presidency, House & Senate


Dem-Reps: 12 / Feds: 2 / Split: 1

Dem-Reps: 9 / Whigs: 1 / Split: 7

Dems: 1 / Reps: 9 / Split: 8

Dems 3 / Reps: 12 / Split: 3

Dems: 13 / Reps: 1 / Split: 4

Dems: 3 / Reps 2.25 / Split: 13.75

Note that the last party system--now coming to a close--is unique in that it is dominated by divided government.  Thus, the Versailles converntional wisdom--that our political disease is due to a lack of bipartisan cooperation is based on an inversion of this fundamental reality, which suggests that our problem is actually the lack of a single dominant party.  (And we all know what happened the last time that party was the GOP, back in 1929.)

The second wave--that of great power rise and fall-- is one we should be accutely aware of, what with the Beijing Olympics and all.  The failure of the Democrats to seriously assess the magnitude of economic decline--which the Republicans have exacerbated enormously, but not caused--has been a serious source of weakness in their campaigning this year, as economic messages have generally lacked consistency and bite.  If goes without saying that nothing the Democrats are proposing is remotely adequate to the scale of the problem as seen in terms of great power decline.  Furthermore, this failure means that the Democrats face a very real problem should they prevail in November--as I beleive they will: what to do about the profound economic mess we fing ourselves in.

The third wave--of post-materialist values-- describes the characteristic core of Obama's youth-skewed supporters. as well as the danger is holds, since those who assume a post-materialist outlook, free from the constraints of survival struggles do have trouble really connecting with the culture of survival struggle that has defined economic populism and the core of center-left politics during the apogee of the New Deal Era.  Part of this trouble--manifest as cultural differences between middle-class and working-class culture--has been a recurrring theme, for example, in educationaction's ongoing series "Core Dilemmas of Community Organizing".

Against all these, we have the wall of hegemony.  Let me repeat my formulation of it from above: "the intensely fortified network of rightwing organizations and their 'moderate' and 'centrist' enablers, together with the narratives they both depend upon and propagate."

Glenn Greenwald wrote about a classic example of Thursay, "The decay of serious journalism and Rachel Maddow's new show", which began thus:

As our political culture, economic security, standing in the world and our media institutions have all degraded beyond recognition after eight years of right-wing rule (much of it cheered on by The New Republic), what is The New Republic's Sacha Zimmerman deeply worried about? MSNBC's decision to give liberal Rachel Maddow her own show....

Because it would "polarize" the debate, don'tcha know!

The relegation of "liberalism" to a subordinate position, and its mis-representation in the media by accomodationists, so ably represented by TNR itself, is a quintessential characteristic of the Sixth Party System in its mature form, and is precisely what a fully-realized realignment would do away with.

But this is not what Obama is all about.  he is a creature of the Sixth Party System, and all its accomodations, and has shown no signs of fundamentally challenging it.

Indeed, the elevation of Biden as VP, and the shunning of Wes Clark, epitomizes how Obama has dealt with the collision of these three waves and the wall of hegemony.  In each of the three examples I cited above--his post-primary move to the right, his relative passivity toward McCain's initial wave of attacks, and his upcoming Wednesday-night focus on conventional national security narratives--Obama has chosen the path of accomodation with the wall of hegemony, and hence, with the existing Sixth Party System.

Biden as VP is one more example of this.  It may very well help ensure an Obama victory in November.  After all, McCain truly is a dangerous man, and Versailles may finally be waking up to the fact.  But the dangers we face go far, far deeper than Versailles dares to imagine.  And if we do not fully plumb those depths, and form policies accordingly, those depths will swallow us, as they have so many great powers before us.

Ozymandias
By Percy Bysshe Shelley

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
`My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.


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Obama is a surfer. (4.00 / 2)
He will ride the wave that he thinks will take him where he wants to go. Wait a second. My metaphor is falling apart. Maybe he'll walk on top of the wall because it's safer. Maybe he's not a surfer. This metaphor is temporarily out of service. We apologize for this interruption.

I think the waves you describe are bigger than any single individual politician. I hope Obama will make some big changes if he sees some openings. The wall is still standing and it's pretty strong. He doesn't want to get crushed between a wave and a wall.

miasmo.com


No One Is Better Positioned To Challenge The Wall Than He Is (4.00 / 4)
Great leaders take on great obstacles. They do things that look foolhardy, unthinkable, not just impossible.  Obama is not that kind of leader, and I think it's high time we recognized that about him.

This hardly makes despicable.  It simply makes him more like JFK than FDR or LBJ.  And JFK, while inspiring, did not have much of a legislative legacy.  Which is why it's up to us to make a difference.

To return to your metaphor, maybe think "Silver Surfer" as opposed to mere Earthlings.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Paul .. (4.00 / 4)
I am just free thinking here ... but according to stuff I read ... the one VP choice older voters were most comfortable with after Biden was John Edwards(and that wasn't gonna happen .. obviously) .. so obviously .. Obama was trying to do a few things here .. lets face it .. will I yearn for change as much as you .. I think we both know that Obama has to be pragmatic too .. he's fighting against the "Obama is a black radical Muslim" smear for one thing .. and while I am not going to get my hopes up too high .. he does need to get elected first .. before the change can really take place .. given the constraints .. Biden is a pretty good pick .. Kaine and Bayh both stunk .. I think Sebelius would have been too much change .. and I doubt he wanted Clinton .. while it wasn't the best choice .. it was a pretty good one .. given the different factors he had to weigh .. the question now begins .. will the media even give a shit about McCain's choice? ... and who will McCain's choice be?  after this past week .. I bet Mittens isn't looking so hot

[ Parent ]
I think Biden will help with older voters (4.00 / 2)
there is no doubt in my mind about that.

For that reason, I disagree with lumping the VP decision in with others that were "costly" in terms of voters but pleasing to the Villagers.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.


[ Parent ]
How Much Help??? (4.00 / 1)
I know this is a common narrative, but all my work looking at the SUSA VP polls showed very little support for such narratives.  Biden may be reassuring to older voters--those who know him.  But (a) how many know him? and (b) how many will change their votes?

The fact that he's now the nominee will certainly change the answer to (a) dramatically, but his relative obscurity to low-info voters is something that most political junkies routinely overlook.  This means it takes resources of time and money to make him start paying major dividends.  Not saying that's not worthwhile. Just saying it's not a freebee.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
FDR (4.00 / 9)
I am no great expert on FDR, but he certainly did not run his 1932 campaign the way he ended up governing over his three terms. Even through his first term he reacted in what many considered overly conservative fashion and it was only over time and the worsening events that he eventually came to be the transformational figure we see now.  

I agree with you Paul that Obama seems to be a fairly cautious political figure, but I don't think that we can write the future as of yet. FDR needed to be pushed into making the transformational change we all want and Obama likely will as well as you point out.    


[ Parent ]
can't write the future (0.00 / 0)
no amount of historical modeling can foretell the future.  

[ Parent ]
All this means is that we need to push Obama (4.00 / 3)
he won't do anything on his own.  And that's fine.

[ Parent ]
Yes, But He'd Already GOVERNED As A Progressive (4.00 / 4)
New York State had the largest, most extensive welfare (in the broad sense) program in the nation.  His commitment to activist government didn't need to be talked about all that much, it had been demonstrated.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Thanks for bringing this up Nindid! We'll see. (4.00 / 4)
Paul, I fear - even suspect - that you're right about Obama.  That he's a sane, thoughtful but ultimately cautious minor figure who will not transform the country or fundamentally change the game.  

But I think there remains a significant chance that Obama is smart enough to know that how one governs is different than how one runs for office - that he can master the "talk moderate, act radical" approach that BushCo has used to cram all this right-wing garbage down our throats.  This would be a spectacular outcome.  

For a while I was sublimely confident that this was in fact what Obama was doing (I saw him do it in Illinois, having watched his career for years).  The first crack of doubt for me was, admittedly, the FISA fight.  Unlike offshore oil-drilling (which is actually even more important to me), Obama's buckling on FISA made no sense politically, and so does suggest (as you've indicated Paul) a conservative governance approach which won't transform a damn thing.

But I'm content to work like the devil for him, push him hard once he's elected, and then wait and see before I judge.


[ Parent ]
I do not know that you are wrong. (4.00 / 1)
I haven't seen evidence that I can point to that will make you feel more comfortable with Obama's possible transformational nature, but, I think its there. He doesnt want to run on it, however, he wants nothing more than to be seen as at the centre. Not the centre of political party but as "not different" from any voter. he doesnt want to be "Other" in anyway.

That gives him leeway to "mirror" what people are feeling and wanting as opposed to imposing from outside.

You want him to be different and other, but your (correct) prescription for a new politician who is "other" from Washington, while powerful and gives us hope for real change, cant overtake Obama's need to be the good angel version of a deep thinking American who happens to be a politician.

I am speaking in terms of semiotics, his place in American minds, his project to let America transform itself -from the inside out. That means he has to be at the centre first.

Thats the important thing to Obama, to be "not different" from the way Americans see them themselves, just a good angel version.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
Which "center"? (4.00 / 4)
The popular center is significantly to the left of the establishment center. I think the criticism here of Obama is that he is pandering more to the establishment center than to the popular center. It is a cautious approach.

miasmo.com

[ Parent ]
Worse Still (4.00 / 1)
He doesn't seem to realize that there's a difference between the two.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Do we know? (0.00 / 0)
I personally have no idea whether he doesn't realize the difference, or whether he does, but thinks it's more important to reassure the establishment. My guess is the latter, but it's just a guess.

After watching the establishment kill off Dean in 2004, I do not underestimate their veto power in a presidential election, nor pretend to know the degree to which sucking up to them is a necessary evil. It's all very depressing.

I did like Biden's speech. The "which kitchen table" line was gold. I think Biden is very arrogant and has been somewhat indoctrinated by the military-industrial complex, but he's definitely not a phony by politician standards. He will be quite a contrast to Ken doll Mittens, should he be McCain's pick.

miasmo.com


[ Parent ]
Hence My Use Of The Word "Seems" (4.00 / 1)
It's hard enough just to accurately track the appearances, no?

What lies behind the appearances, heh!  "Here be dragons."

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Really? (0.00 / 0)
The fact that the DC establishment and the electorate are on wildly different pages is a politics 101 realization.  Surely you're not suggesting that Obama hasn't realized that.

If you think he should be more overtly running against Washington, well, I'm curious what successful national political figure running against the establishment from the left you'd offer as evidence that it can be done successfully.  Recall that Obama began his national career by proclaiming that Washington politics was broken, and that America "deserved a politics as good as our people", and a "new kind of politics", etc.  Theoretically, he is running against the Versailles status quo, although he's doing so in vague and pleasant generalities, rather than say an Edwards or Spitzer "here are the enemies, now let's beat them."

I aks about running directly against the establishment because one's options in democratic politics are to 1) pretend that the establishment "center" is the popular center, and when one caters to the establishment, claim that it is done in order to please the people, or, 2) identify the two constituencies as different, and claim to support the electorate's POV against the establishment's.  One never ever caters to the establishment specifically and admits doing so.  So conflating the two when necessary is a standard act of every politician.


[ Parent ]
Obama Says The Problem Is Lack of Bipartisanship (0.00 / 0)
Which keeps the Washington center pretty much where it is, but wants the two sides to get closer together.

That's not the same thing at all as realizing that that center is well to the right of the American people.

Part of Obama just has to know that, of course. (His left little toe, perhaps?)  But the rest of him sure doesn't seem to act that way.  Hence, again, my use of the word "seems."

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Nope Obama does not say the problem is partisans. (0.00 / 0)
He says Washington is broken. He says that money pouring into Washington, as it pours now into the democratic party at convention, witness the AT&T funded "Blue Dog Democrat" 'by-invitation-only' banquet and bar session at the Denver Convention as we speak.

Bi Partisan is positioning not a position. As I am getting boring by repeating, Obama is America, right down to his socks and grandma, down to his "ummm OK OK" and self deprecating humor. He wants America to trust that he is not other, not because he is a Democrat, not because he is African American, he is not different because he's smart enough to go from food stamps to Harvard. He's just one of us. he wants not to be anywhere but at the center. The wise center yes. The unselfish center yes. The unbribed center of course. Not with an agenda that isn't shared by all.

He wants his policies and actions to be something that grows out Americas demand for change. Not imposed from outside or from one side. He chose the Democrats because after watching he found them on his side, on America workers and families side, on sanity's side, in almost every issue he fought. When they weren't all too often it was because money, and funding and PACs and lobbyists and unfair access drove solutions and consensus away.


Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
The perceived centre. (0.00 / 0)
I am still out as to how much help he will provide the left and how much push back.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
Interesting analysis as always Paul (0.00 / 0)
This may be a little off topic, but it's been on my mind this morning. What does a Biden Vice Presidency mean for Obama's Secretary of State? Will he or she be a marginalized figure? Will Obama pick a Republican to have "diversity of view points?"

Talk About Premature! (0.00 / 0)
I honestly think that who he chooses as Secretary of State will be significantly influenced by what happens during the campaign.

Balance, reinforce, "something completely different", at this point it could go any which way plus loose.

But you're right to highlight the fact that it does become a very interesting question.  And now that we dont have the VP slot to speculate over anymore, let the new games begin!

Oh, yeah. Winning the election. Almost forgot about that.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Why would the SoS be marginalized? .. (0.00 / 0)
don't you think Obama will have them all on the same page?  The other question is .. who will replace Biden in the Senate? .. many people always figured Biden's son .. but his son is getting deployed to Iraq soon .. for a year.

[ Parent ]
I've heard good things about his wife (0.00 / 0)
Though I know almost nothing about her.  

[ Parent ]
Foreign policy is always split..... (4.00 / 2)
....between SoS and NSA (nat security advisor, not No Such Agency) so the President retains control of the agenda (to varying degrees).

We've seen examples of FP split 3-ways in the first Bush term, with Cheney/Rumsfeld, Powell and Rice all having their own agendas.  Rice's agenda, as a successful university administrator, was to kiss her boss' ass.

Now might be a good time to reread Ari Berman's great essay about the strategic class that dominates the Democratic party (see also here).  Expect VP Biden and SoS Holbrooke to pretty much toe the party line.  Perhaps NSA Samantha Power might offer some new perspectives.  Wondering how Richard Clarke will fit into things.  Cross my fingers for SoD Clark, but I get no indication that that is in the cards, quite the opposite really.


[ Parent ]
How does the Biden pick reinforce Obama's passivity toward McCain? (0.00 / 0)
I hate Biden perhaps even more than you do, but if there's one thing he's not, it's passive.  He's going to be an excellent debater against whoever the Republicans throw up against him.

ProgressiveHistorians: History For Our Future

That Would Be Nice (0.00 / 0)
If anybody cared about the debates.

[ Parent ]
He will be very good at getting talking points out there, too (4.00 / 1)
He has severe problems, but he can soundbyte with the best of them.

[ Parent ]
Agreed (0.00 / 0)
For all his faults, he's gonna generate a lot of soundbytes.

[ Parent ]
I Guess I Didn't Spell That Out Clearly Enough (4.00 / 4)
I'm saying that Obama was relatively passive, because--from his strategic POV--he had to let McCain overplay his hand, and begin to sow doubts among the Versailles media, about whether he was still the old John McCain that they knew and loved.  That phase may be over now.  At least I hope so.  And Biden would then fit in well with a much stronger push-back phase.

But, seriously, the Dems are so used to playing the wimp that we can't even imagine what a GOP-style push-back would look like.  For example, how about a Paris Hilton look-alike mocking "that old white-haired dude" for not knowing how many houses he owned, saying, "I may look like I'm just a dumb blonde, but even I know how many houses I own."  Even with Biden on the ticket, the Dems aren't going to come within an order of magnitude--or even two--of what the GOP will do.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Yeah, Passivity is gone from the democrats now. (0.00 / 0)
I cant see it come back, the recent very well done quick hit Dem ads from the Obama campaign are very encouraging, and with hard hitting supremely confident Biden on side its sure to be a powerful non passive stance.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
Passivity Gone? (4.00 / 1)
God, I hope so. But after 30+ yerars of wimping out, I'm not taking anything for granted.

More to the point, however, is the question of whether they cn break out of their self-imposed box.  As I wrote above, they are at least one, maybe two orders of magnitude behind the GOP in terms of uninhibited intensity of attack.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Look alike? (0.00 / 0)
You don't think we could afford Paris??

[ Parent ]
Obama himself admits pragmatism (4.00 / 1)
"he is a creature of the Sixth Party System, and all its accomodations, and has shown no signs of fundamentally challenging it."

The long NYT report about Obama's stance on economic policy supports that view:
"Some of the confusion stems from Obama's own strategy of presenting himself as a postpartisan figure. A few weeks ago, I joined him on a flight from Orlando to Chicago and began our conversation by asking about his economic approach. He started to answer, but then interrupted himself. "My core economic theory is pragmatism," he said, "figuring out what works."

This, of course, is not the whole story. Invoking pragmatism doesn't help the average voter much; ideology, though it often gets a bad name, matters, because it offers insight into how a candidate might actually behave as president. I have spent much of this year trying to get a handle on what is sometimes called Obamanomics and have come away thinking that Obama does have an economic ideology. It's just not a completely familiar one. Depending on how you look at it, he is both more left-wing and more right-wing than many people realize."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08...  

But what's good with that bipartisan or postpartisan approach, if it actually comes down to belittling the accomplishments and the consumer friendly stance of the own party, while at the same time give additional clout to the ideology of the political enemy, even though it was proven wrong by reality in the recent years? Bipartisanship certainly isn't the solution for the lack of equal influence of Democratic positions in the media and among those "serious" beltway insiders! A strategy of muddling through, of not questioning false ideologies but embracing them in order to be more acceptable isn't change, but preservation of the current titlted situation.

So, I think Paul is right, Obama isn't the solution to the problem of getting the nation on the right track in the long run. And I guess many enthusiastic supporters will be dissapointed from reality in a few years.


This is a perfect example of what I meant in response to Paul above (0.00 / 0)
Obama will not place himself as an ideologue in American minds. Thats not his project. being a 'pragmatist' places him at the centre of American minds. He recently said for example that "if I was to start over from scratch, the single payer healthcare system is what he would build, but..." so he isn't in any way adverse to the 'ideology' around what we partisans in the trenches are trying to build.

He wants to be the pragmatist listening to all of America so we can create the system that works for us.

I really think there is ample evidence of his "more than willingness" to listen to waht we demand, so long as its what America is ready to hear.

He is not trying to reassure us. I hope that is because he knows we are all grown up and can handel our job without that.

If he turns out to be another Bill Clinton, well then we have a lot of work to do. But thats after we elect this ticket.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
FDR Was A Pragmatist, Too (4.00 / 3)
First off, the things I'm calling for are either strongly majoritarian positions, or could become such by proper framing, and long-term strategizing.

Fundamental change from the failed policies of the past is not ideological, per se.  If anything, it's pragmatic.

FDR was a pragmatist, too.  He didn't have an ideological line he was following.  To the contrary, he encouraged and consulted with a wide range of advisors who disagreed about virtually everything to some degree or another. The difference between him and Obama is that FDR was under no illusions about the need for fundamental restructuring in order to get things back on track.  Obama still thinks that tinkering will get the job done.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
I agree but I am not sure you are right about what Obama thinks (0.00 / 0)
as per my thoughts on how he wants to be positioned, it is who he is as an American no different from America.

We are going to have to see.

BUT, it will be no different if he were more progressive, or more in line with our thinking, any set of progressive thinking... We must organize around progressive issues, and we must elect more better dems.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
Well (4.00 / 5)
The Bankruptcy bill was bad. No excuses there.

But as far as insiders go, Biden seems like a decent guy that is genuinely on our side on nearly all issues. He voted right on FISA the entire way -- that's important to me. And getting plaudits from Hagel and Lugar is all in all a good thing for the campaign going forward. My most important issue at this point is winning -- the country (and especially the federal judiciary) cannot afford four more years of this crap.

I would have preferred someone else, but I have always kinda liked Biden, so I am coming around.

Paul, your criticisms are well placed. Obama will be judged by his actions starting on 1.20.09. I continue to believe that he'll be more progressive than he's campaigning right now (mainly because of the influence of his wife), but that's not worth anything here in the real world.

The wave is still building, and hopefully we can get enough progressives over the line in the Congress to push the agenda our way. That ought to be the goal for November.


wait a second, you are too real here (4.00 / 3)
you said, "I continue to believe that he'll be more progressive than he's campaigning right now (mainly because of the influence of his wife), but that's not worth anything here in the real world."

What's with the pragmatism and humility? The openness to not knowing? Are you crazy?  This is a blog!



[ Parent ]
Fair enough (4.00 / 2)
but I remember people saying that Clinton would govern to the left of how he was campaigning due to the influence of his wife.  And we all know how that turned out.

[ Parent ]
True (4.00 / 2)
But the difference will be that Barack will have the largest congressional majorities (in both houses) since LBJ, and he won't raise taxes on the middle class to balance the budget.

He'll have a lot more room to operate. And as much as his cautious insiderism is annoying the base (us!), he's still talking about trying to get us to universal (or near-universal) health care coverage, to take real steps towards combating global warming and a next gen energy economy, withdrawing from Iraq, and ending the Bushian economic policies. Overall, that's a pretty progressive set of policies.

I do worry about the influence of clowns like Cass Sunstein and the UChicago economic krewe on his thinking. I definitely worry that he'll bow down to the insider CW and decide not to investigate and prosecute the Bush admin crimes. He will disappoint me on many occasions, of that I am relatively sure.

But I think at his heart he's a decent guy that hasn't forgotten where he's come from and how he got here. Same with Michelle. And it just isn't convincing to me that a guy that spent years organizing the dispossessed in inner city Chicago and then spent years as a minority member of the Chicago Senate working on police procedural and death penalty reforms (real civil rights stuff) is going to turn into some conservative hack just like that.  


[ Parent ]
I Hope You're Right, But Hope Is Not A Plan (4.00 / 1)
right?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Right (0.00 / 0)
I actually wrote that in my post at first but deleted. :)

[ Parent ]
True. And here is the hard part. (0.00 / 0)
He has not encouraged us, thats for sure. But as I say above, maybe he thinks we don't need it. Biden is as progressive a mainstream-we-arent-different as we could expect, Iwould have preffferred Gore, but well.

So what we now need is planning.

1) Elect more better dems.

2)  

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
If we are going to (4.00 / 2)
quote Shelly, this is the poem that I think best applies to the Obama campaign:

Gentleness, Virtue, Wisdom, and Endurance,
These are the seals of that most firm assurance
  Which bars the pit over Destruction's strength;
And if, with infirm hand, Eternity, [4.565]
Mother of many acts and hours, should free
  The serpent that would clasp her with his length;
These are the spells by which to reassume
An empire o'er the disentangled doom.

To suffer woes which Hope thinks infinite; [4.570]
To forgive wrongs darker than death or night;
  To defy Power, which seems omnipotent;
To love, and bear; to hope till Hope creates
From its own wreck the thing it contemplates;
  Neither to change, nor falter, nor repent; [4.575]
This, like thy glory, Titan, is to be
Good, great and joyous, beautiful and free;
This is alone Life, Joy, Empire, and Victory.

Obama has been largely incomprehensible to many in liberal blogsphere.  I think their misreading of him is partially generation, and partially because he disagrees with the core thesis that many progressives have advanced since the '02 election.  I think they are wrong, and Obama is right for the most part.  My view on this is, of course, a minority view here.  


And just maybe .. (0.00 / 0)
it's hard to gauge how a Senator .. will govern .. once the buck stops with him .. especially a Senator that's never been mayor or Governor(which is most of them)

[ Parent ]
So part (4.00 / 1)
of the poem reads

to hope till Hope creates
From its own wreck the thing it contemplates

Obama has inspired millions to become more active in the political process.  Matt Stoller would argue that the tools were created for this in 2004: but they were just tools.  Without the inspiration Obama has provided, they would be worthless.

And so the largest grassroots organization anyone has ever seen has come to life.  And in its creation is the power to ensure that Obama doesn't turn right.  The very basis of Obama's victory carries with it the seeds of insurance against a lurch to the right in the White Houses.  


[ Parent ]
He better freaking deliver, though (4.00 / 2)
or those millions who became more active in the political process will just get the message that their voices don't matter.

Obama sold himself on the premise that it wasn't about him, that he was leading a movement that was different and more inclusive.  If he gets elected and just enacts DLC-style compromise and capitulation, then he will have successfully have turned millions off of politics.  That is the risk of his gambit.


[ Parent ]
I Don't Think Think He's Been Incomprehensible To Progressives (4.00 / 4)
I think he's been incomprehending.

His approach to foreign policy is basically to do the wrong thing better, for example.  It's well to the right of the RAND corporation, for gosh sakes!

More fundamentally, he makes a two-fold mistake with respect to conservatives:

(1) He confuses the deceitful, bad-faith hardline ideologues in movement conservative leadership with the broader base of self-identified conservatives, who are fundamentally much closer to liberals than they are to their own supposed "leadership."

(2) He confuses listening to peoples' concerns, which is a smart thing to do, with adopting some of their discredited "solutions", which is dumb beyond words.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Please retire "Versailles" (4.00 / 3)
I can't be the only one who finds it annoying.

"Versailles" is terrific - insightful, and accurate! (4.00 / 1)
I can't help but use it all the time, ever since the first time I heard Paul roll it out!

[ Parent ]
Believe Me, I Ferverently WANT To Retire Versailles (4.00 / 3)
That's why I write about it repeatedly.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
uh (0.00 / 0)
What exactly does it mean?  I just find it confusing.

Assuming it's a reference to something I'm not aware of, I just find its use pompous and obnoxious.


[ Parent ]
Paul means Obama wants to please France (4.00 / 2)
I believe one thing in his plank is to rename American Fries back to French Fries. That's why McCain says Obama is not patriotic.  

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

[ Parent ]
it's actually a great analogy... (4.00 / 5)
louis the 14th of france relocated the court to versailles (from paris) in order to keep tabs on all of the aristocrats (who might have been his rivals) and to insulate the court from uprisings.  so, the court became isolated from real people in france, and a center of aristocratic self-indulgence, kinda like DC today.  

also, versailles was the location of the bourgeois/royalist national government of france during the period of the paris commune, and was the place from which the anti-communard army set out before massacring much of the civilian population in paris.  

 


[ Parent ]
You Know, "Let Them Eat Cake" And All That (4.00 / 2)
It refers to the out-of-touch French monarchy and aristocrats in the late 18th-Century French court, who mistook themselves for France, and thought they were in touch with its soul by play-acting the part of peasants. Eventually, they were rudely awakened to reality by having their heads chopped off, when the people grew tired of starving half to death.

It's not that I wish for such a bloody end for anyone.  It's just that our modern day political aristocracy are so strikingly reminiscent of those French aristocrats who could not see or hear anything less drastic than their own bloody demise.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Since he went to the Senate (4.00 / 4)
I have been disappointed by Obama's overly cautious approach to just about everything. However, as Al Giordana has gleefully pointed out, the grassroots organizational structure Obama has put together to get elected can easily be pivoted to put the pressure on him to move in the directions the grassroots prefers.

His Facebook-based organization has already been pivoted twice in this way: on FISA, and on Bayh. It didn't work on FISA, but it certainly delivered the message that his supporters will not unconditionally accept any fool thing he decides to do. And his losing some of his lead not long thereafter would, I hope, help him understand that he needs a base that not only will vote for him, but will work enthusiastically for him.

On Bayh, I saw somewhere (maybe at Dkos?) that Obama backed off that choice because of opposition from the base. Not sure how true that is, but it sounds plausible.

So on balance, Obama's get-along-go-along tendencies might work to our advantage, especially if we have the wave of a perfect storm moving in the same direction.

No society that feeds its children on tales of successful violence can expect them not to believe that violence in the end is rewarded. -Margaret Mead


every election no matter (0.00 / 0)
the result we keep moving more to the right regardless of which side of the aisle wins, you can probably count those left of center on both hands right now.

as the workers vote against their own self interests we fall deeper and deeper into the abyss of tyranny and fascism.

the drug of choice in america today is apathy and stupidity, bow to your heros peasants they hold your future in their criminal hands.  


Thanks for that message of deep cynicism and despair (4.00 / 3)
So what are going to do about it? Let's get some progressives elected to the House and Senate. Let's build some progressive media that can challenge the Right. Let's build a progressive labor/feminist/environmental/peace/anti-corruption movement that can challenge the dominant powers, institutions, and culture.

[ Parent ]
Cynicism is the mask of cowardice. (4.00 / 3)
Consider the words of the Declaration of Independence:

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

They were up against forces just as evil and degenerate as the ones facing us today, and they had no guarantee of victory. But they fought anyway.

Montani semper liberi


[ Parent ]
I am sorry, it is hard to battle cynicism, (0.00 / 0)
I point you to Umberto Echo's "Foucault's Pendulum" it is soemwhat helpful and a delight to read.

Change
"We must break up the banks and never again let them get so big that they distort our politics and take down the economy.


[ Parent ]
At least he didn't pick Edwards (4.00 / 1)
as you were calling for a month ago, right?

I Was Never "Calling For" Edwards, That Was Not My Purpose (4.00 / 2)
As it was pretty obvious all along that Edwards was not seriously in the running.  What I was doing was showing what the data said, as opposed to the purely narrative-based arguments.  Above all was the fact that the data showed you didn't have to move rightward to appeal to undecideds.

As I stated several times, there were other candidates that I thought would probably be strong, and would please me, but there was no objective evidence on their behalf.  (Clark, most notably.)

Of course I couldn't know about his affair.  There are always things out there that we don't know about.  But that's no reason to abandon evidence and reason.  You do the best you can, and when new evidence comes to light, you adjust accordingly.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Edwards was always considered more conseravtive than obama (0.00 / 0)
So thats probably why your message didn't get across.

The liberal wiki
Send an email to terra@liberalwiki.com


[ Parent ]
He Had A Southern Accent (4.00 / 1)
and was a white dude.

What more do you want?

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
To be fair (0.00 / 0)
It was the incongruity of the voting and rhetorical record of John Edwards, the Senator, compared to the rhetoric and promises of John Edwards, the Presidential Candidate in 2008. Russ Feingold said as much.

People are capable of learning from their mistakes. I liked (and still like) JRE and where his heart lies, and his all too human flaws don't change that for me. But it just all came off unconvincing to me.  


[ Parent ]
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