On John McCain's Cancer Problem

by: Matt Stoller

Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:55


A cancer surgeon named Orac responds to my post calling McCain a 'crazy cancer-ridden dishonest madman'.

"Crazy cancer-ridden dishonest madman"? Nice. I wonder if Matt spit out the term "cancer-ridden" with the same amount of contempt and venom while typing as he did when he spit out the terms "crazy," "dishonest," and "madman." I wonder if he thinks "cancer-ridden" is just as bad an insult as the other terms.

As a cancer surgeon, I found that bit about "cancer-ridden madman" to be a truly despicable rhetorical gambit, not to mention irrelevant.  John McCain had melanoma. He was successfully treated for it, and has been cancer-free for seven years, making the likelihood of a recurrence very small.

Here's the article that Orac links to but does not feature in his criticism.

But this time around, Mr. McCain has yet to make his full medical records or his physicians available to reporters. At least three times since March 2007, campaign officials have told The New York Times that they would provide the detailed information about his current state of health, but they have not done so.

And when he did let the media peek at his records, it was with strict security guidelines.

The newer batch of records has strict security guidelines attached. Only certain news networks and newspapers will be permitted to enter the room, and they will have only three hours to examine the papers.

No cell phones or Internet access will be allowed in the room, located in a resort outside Phoenix, Arizona. Copying the records is also prohibited.

Anyone who leaves the room for any reason except the bathroom will not be allowed back.

It is very likely that McCain has cancer or some other serious illness.  There's no reason McCain wouldn't let reporters look at his records otherwise.  McCain is 72 years old and he was a POW, a member of a group with high rates of illness due to ill-treatment on the part of their captors.  

Cancer is relevant to the Presidency.  Misleading the press about one's health is relevant to the Presidency.  This is not just a dude looking for a job, he's going to have his hand on the nuclear trigger.  Imminent death from a terminal disease kind of skews your perspective on this, you know what I'm saying?

Orac is not just wrong, he's misplacing his professional norms onto a political process fraught with bad faith.  He's like all those scientists tut-tutting people to not jump to conclusions about whether this or that storm are directly related to climate change.  He believes in his authority over the social context of medicine rather than recognizing that the public has a right to weigh in on the Presidential nominee.  If the Presidential nominee has cancer I want to know about it.  And if he's at risk for getting cancer, as he probably is, it's a problem.  

Matt Stoller :: On John McCain's Cancer Problem

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I think Orac .. (4.00 / 1)
was PO'ed at your hyperbole .. and missed the larger point you were trying to make .. I am not worried about your words .. I am more worried about the TradMed not doing there job.

"Cancer ridden" (4.00 / 12)
I am guessing that you haven't had anyone close to you suffer from cancer.... if so you wouldn't have put these exact words together.  His medical history should be an issue, but your tone invokes the old cancer stigmas of the past.  Many of us will get cancer, and implying that it is a disqualification for an important job hurts all of us.  Cancer has its own set of politics and you stepped in them with this tone.  

And (4.00 / 3)
We are all at risk for getting cancer.  Find another way to express your disgust with McCain, please.

Smoking (0.00 / 0)
I remember reading somewhere that Obama used to smoke cigarettes.  That would give him an elevated risk for cancer over the gen. populace too.  If it was true.

[ Parent ]
i scold you (0.00 / 1)
Matt, I think you're really missing the point here. The one thing you can say about McCain, the president, and the entire Republican party is that no matter how bad things have gotten, they've always treated those they disagree with with respect.

It was, of course, the Republicans who pushed for "political correctness" and while we made fun of them I think it's time to admit that offending people is NOT OK.

I can respect them for that.

That's why I'm voting for McCain.

PS: I thought the reference was not to McCain's health, but to the fact that McCain's policies -- against health care, in support of big businesses like tobacco, and in favor of further eviscerating environmental proctections -- would make the nation more cancer-ridden?

But I think your critic is right, of course. You must remember to at all times remain respectful and sensitive to the feelings of the right-wing.


Thanks for the good laugh (4.00 / 5)
=== The one thing you can say about McCain, the president, and the entire Republican party is that no matter how bad things have gotten, they've always treated those they disagree with with respect. ===
Thanks for the good laugh.  I will just mention the purple heart band-aids and the "McCain's black child" rumours as two quick examples, but if you seriously think that the Rove- and Norquist-driven Republican Party and the Radical Right treat those they disagree with with "respect" you are living in an alternate universe.

sPh


[ Parent ]
Yeah, (4.00 / 2)
and I'll pass that on one to the poor bastards in Guantanamo Bay, too. Because the Party of Torture is real big on "respect" for anyone other than themselves.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
what? (0.00 / 0)
You're voting for McCain because the Republicans "pushed for political correctness?!"

What are you talking about?

The truth about Saxby Chambliss


[ Parent ]
Please read... (4.00 / 1)
this it might help you understand the OP.

[ Parent ]
Orac is good guy. (4.00 / 3)
And Respectful Insolence is one of the best evidence based medicine blogs on the inter-tubes. His point was the tone you used and how you linked cancer-ridden to the other insults. He does quote mine you a little bit, and he should have addressed your whole post in context.

I don't think he would disagree with the broader point that the health of presidential candidates is relevant. In the comments he mentions that 72 year old men in the US have on average about 11 years left in them, so he doesn't seem to believe that McCain's health is an issue.


I would note (4.00 / 4)
That Matt's post here doesn't address Orac's criticism.

Orac says: Matt Stoller and other bloggers are using cancer associations as an insult, a derogatory association similar in nature to "crazy," "dishonest," and "madman". That's wrong.

Matt says: If McCain has or is at serious risk to recur for cancer, this is a valid concern for voters to have and something the media must pay more attention to.

Okay, but however valid Matt's point is in isolation, it doesn't have anything to do with Orac's point that Matt was using cancer as an insult and this, not bringing up McCain's cancer as something for the voter base to be concerned about, was what Orac is complaining about. It's just changing the subject in response to criticism.


[ Parent ]
orac's point (0.00 / 0)
is that Matt's rhetoric offended him.

This could have been expressed in a single sentence, but I guess "Orac" wanted to flesh it out over the course of a couple passive-aggressive paragraphs about how "vile" and "despicable" Matt's comment was.

If you are worried about offending someone who is "less enthusiastic" about McCain these days, you are probably not qualified to be running a progressive blog.


[ Parent ]
Since when are blogger's (4.00 / 3)
pseudonyms put in quotes? Also, since when do bloggers get points for brevity?

Here is the thrust of Orac's argument that Matt didn't address:

using the term "cancer-ridden" as part of a string of disparaging adjectives gives the impression that the vile moron who wrote the above sentence views being a cancer survivor as something to be ashamed of, something on the same order of being dishonest, crazy, or a madman.

Also, Orac has been quite critical of McCain for the last several months and hasn't supported him at all since perhaps 2000. He's more conservative than most at ScienceBlogs, but to pretend his is some Republican shill is just bullshit.


[ Parent ]
It was vile and despicable (4.00 / 1)
And anyone who has watched someone suffer through cancer, or lost someone to cancer, would be rightly offended.

Matt got smacked down and deserved it.  He may have made a very good point about the American people having a right to know the medical history of a presidential candidate - but linking a condition like cancer with known character flaws is in fact, vile, and despicable.

QT

Visit the Obama Project


WindOnWater.net




[ Parent ]
I totally agree. (4.00 / 1)
They are talking past each other, and blaming the other for missing their point. But, Orac's criticism had little to do with Matt's broader point, so he might be excused for not considering the entire post. Matt then responded to Orac's very specific criticism by defending his broader point that was actually pretty irrelevant to the criticism.

[ Parent ]
There is more evidence (4.00 / 1)
that he has health problems.  Why did the amount he spent on help go up so much in one year.  From  believe around 180 thousand to 270,000.  It raises a seriously question, what is wrong with JOhn McCain that he needs 270,000 of servants to function.

He is also now the real house husband of of Sedona. Why does Cindy have to manage all their finances to the point were McCain is completely isolated from their finances.  Is there a cognitive issue, or is she trying to shield him from contact from something shady.

John McCain's "OC" life style raises serious questions about his capability to be president.


There is more evidence (0.00 / 0)
that he has health problems.  Why did the amount he spent on help go up so much in one year.  From  believe around 180 thousand to 270,000.  It raises a seriously question, what is wrong with JOhn McCain that he needs 270,000 of servants to function.

He is also now the real house husband of of Sedona. Why does Cindy have to manage all their finances to the point were McCain is completely isolated from their finances.  Is there a cognitive issue, or is she trying to shield him from contact from something shady.

John McCain's "OC" life style raises serious questions about his capability to be president.


Health problems or no... (4.00 / 3)
...I feel "cancer-ridden" was a poor choice of words. Call the guy a liar and insist on full-disclosure, certainly...but cancer ain't nothin' to play with.    

"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams

Its about stigma (4.00 / 1)
Cancer used to have the same stigma that black,LGBT,people with depression, etc had.

Its like calling a woman hysterical.

I would just call him a cancer ridden 72 year old who is also a crazy dishonest madman.

That way you clearly seperate the concerns from the insults.  Orac should be fine with that.

The liberal wiki
Send an email to terra@liberalwiki.com


Do you really want to play the "secrecy" card? (0.00 / 0)
Last I checked, we can't get records on Obama's grants record from when he was a state senator. We can't get his office records from then either. We can't get his law clients. We can't see his application to the bar. We can't see his billing records. We can't get the Annenberg Challenge docs (ok, that one may be being lifted).

And...of course, it's only fair to bring this up.  We can't have his medical records either.

Of course, we had similar secrecy issues with Kerry too, so this is no surprise. It was only much after the election that we learned why he didn't want to release his grades. I wonder if it will be much after the election that we learn why Obama doesn't want us to know these things too.


Well .. (0.00 / 0)
why won't McCain release his? .. we know(and I don't know how) that McCain finished 894 out of a class of 899 at the Naval Academy .. we know that his father and grand father were both Admirals .. which putting 2 & 2 together .. makes you wonder a few things about McCain's academic record(Like did McCain pass any of his classes at all?) .. what law clients of Obama? .. I didn't know that he represented clients in court .. and what billing records? .. have you heard of attorney client privilege? .. If there are such records .. he's not the only one that has to agree to release them ... so get your facts straight

[ Parent ]
attorney-client privilege (0.00 / 0)

We can't get his law clients.

Now now, that's protected by attorney-client privilege. Obama could lose his bar license if he reveals his clients' identities without their permission. Not to mention that it would be highly unethical.

The truth about Saxby Chambliss

[ Parent ]
Somehow I'm just not that concerned (0.00 / 0)
about whether attacks on McCain are fair in some Platonic realm.

Make Cindy cry. Then you know we have done our job.


It's a maater of public interest, sure, (0.00 / 0)
But, honestly, you could have phrase it in a more diplomatic way, Matt. "Crazy cancer-ridden dishonest madman" sounds just mean. And while "crazy", "dishonest", and "madman" are McCain character flaws, "cancer-ridden" isn't. It's a personal tragedy, that sadly is having a public impact because the cancer victim is running for president. You shouldn't have mentioned it in the same sentence as the character attack.
All in all, while you made valid points, you made them in a way that won't increase people's sympathy for liberals...

Imho, an apology for the dehumanizing phrase, but not for the serious arguments behind it, would be a good idea.


FWIW, the Boston Globe review of the medical records (0.00 / 0)
seems pretty complete, and does not include any qualms based on secrecy.

http://www.boston.com/news/nat...

The assessment w/r/t his cancer seems pretty specific:

The information disclosed yesterday indicated that McCain has no looming health problems. There is a "single digit" percentage chance that his cancer will return, Connolly said. His other health issues - such as elevated cholesterol levels, for which the senator takes medication - are minor, his doctors said.
Disclaimer - I am not an MD.

You've been tagged by Red State (0.00 / 0)
I think it's worthwhile to point out their discussion.

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