Presidential Forecast, 8/26: No Biden Bounce

by: Chris Bowers

Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 14:56


Electoral College: Obama 260, McCain 206, Toss-up 72 (270 to win)
National popular vote: Obama 46.1%-44.1% McCain


(Dark Blue (183): Obama +7.6% or more
Lean Blue (77): Obama +2.6%-+7.5%
White / Toss-up (72): Obama +2.5% to McCain +2.5%
Lean Red (55): McCain +2.6%-+7.5%
Dark Red (151): McCain +7.6% or more
)

New polls from Florida (2), North Carlina (2), Ohio, Pennsylvania and Texas make virtually no dent in the state polling averages. Here is the swing state chart:

Swing State Overview (270 to win, 269 to tie)
State EV's Obama % McCain % Margin Obama Total
Obama Base 255 255
New Mexico 5 45.0% 42.0% +3.0% 260
Colorado 9 45.3% 43.4% +1.9% 269
Virginia 13 45.4% 45.0% +0.4% 282
Montana 3 47.0% 47.0% Even 285
Ohio 20 42.8% 42.8% Even 305
Alaska 3 43.5% 44.0% -0.5% 308
New Hampshire 4 43.7% 44.3% -0.6% 312
Nevada 5 42.3% 44.0% -1.7% 317
North Carolina 15 43.4% 45.9% -2.5% 332
North Dakota 3 42.0% 45.0% -3.0% 335
Florida 27 43.3% 46.5% -3.2% 362
South Dakota 3 40.0% 44.0% -4.0% 365
McCain Base 162 173

The big polling news today, of course, are the tracking polls that show a tie (Rasmussen) and a two-point lead for McCain (Gallup). That is the worst showing for Obama in three months, and also the first time in three months that McCain has a net lead in the tracking polls. It should be noted that this does not mean McCain is ahead nationally, as there are other polls and the tracking polls have consistently skewed toward McCain. Also, it should be noted that Obama continues to hold a lead at the state polling level.

However, this is still pretty bad news. Although the tracking polls have virtually no interviews conducted after Michelle Obama's speech, they were both entirely conducted after the Biden announcement. This means no Biden bump, which doesn't really surprise me. Biden just isn't the sort of politician who is going to win votes right away. The hope is that he can win them as the campaign goes on, with a strong debate, as tough attack dog, and just as a generally good surrogate.

I admit that I have a bad feeling about this. So far, the lack of bounce is eerily similar to 2004, when we didn't get a bounce out of the convention.  I am not entirely sure what is going wrong, as I have actually generally liked what the Obama campaign has done over the past week. Conventions tend to put presidential campaigns where they should "naturally" be, and right now I am wondering if that means a toss-up or even a slight McCain lead. Maybe the last three months were just a mirage, and it was the March through May period that was normal. The next two weeks will let us know.

State by state details in the extended entry.

Chris Bowers :: Presidential Forecast, 8/26: No Biden Bounce
Solid Obama: 183 Electoral Votes
State EV's Obama % McCain % Margin # Polls
California 55 54.0% 41.0% +13.0% 1
Connecticut 7 53.0% 40.0% +13.0% 1
Delaware 3 50.0% 41.0% +9.0% 1
D.C. 3 -- -- +80.0% 0
Hawaii 4 61.0% 31.0% +30.0% 1
Illinois 21 55.0% 40.0% +15.0% 1
Maine-AL* 2 53.0% 39.0% +14.0% 2
Maine-01* 1 -- -- +17.2% 0
Maine-02* 1 -- -- +10.8% 0
Maryland 10 53.0% 43.0% +10.0% 1
Massachusetts 12 50.5% 38.0% +12.5% 2
New Jersey 15 51.5% 41.5% +10.0% 2
New York 31 53.0% 37.0% +16.0% 3
Rhode Island 4 55.0% 31.0% +24.0% 1
Vermont 3 63.0% 29.0% +34.0% 1
Washington 11 50.7% 40.3% +10.4% 3

Lean Obama: 77 Electoral Votes
State EV's Obama % McCain % Margin # Polls
Iowa 7 49.5% 43.5% +6.0% 2
Michigan 17 46.0% 40.5% +5.5% 4
Minnesota 10 48.0% 42.7% +5.3% 3
New Mexico 5 45.0% 42.0% +3.0% 3
Oregon 7 50.0% 43.5% +6.5% 2
Pennsylvania 21 47.0% 41.2% +5.8% 5
Wisconsin 10 47.3% 41.3% +6.0% 3

Toss-up: 72 Electoral Votes
State EV's Obama % McCain % Margin # Polls
Alaska 3 43.5% 44.0% -0.5% 2
Colorado 9 45.3% 43.4% +1.9% 7
Montana 3 47.0% 47.0% Even 1
Nevada 5 42.3% 44.0% -1.7% 4
New Hampshire 4 43.7% 44.3% -0.6% 3
North Carolina 15 43.4% 45.9% -2.5% 7
Ohio 20 42.8% 42.8% Even 5
Virginia 13 45.4% 45.0% +0.4% 5

Lean McCain: 55 Electoral Votes
State EV's Obama % McCain % Margin # Polls
Florida 27 43.3% 46.5% -3.2% 8
Indiana 11 43.5% 49.5% -6.0% 2
Missouri 11 42.7% 49.7% -7.0% 3
North Dakota 3 42.0% 45.0% -3.0% 1
South Dakota 3 40.0% 44.0% -4.0% 1

Solid McCain: 151 Electoral Votes
State EV's Obama % McCain % Margin # Polls
Alabama 9 36.0% 52.5% -16.5% 2
Arizona 10 37.3% 49.0% -11.7% 2
Arkansas 6 39.0% 52.0% -13.0% 1
Georgia 15 44.0% 53.0% -9.0% 1
Idaho 4 37.0% 53.0% -16.0% 1
Kansas 6 38.0% 56.5% -18.5% 2
Kentucky 8 38.3% 54.3% -16.0% 3
Louisiana 9 39.0% 57.0% -18.0% 1
Mississippi 6 43.0% 56.0% -13.0% 1
Nebraska-AL** 2 36.0% 55.0% -19.0% 1
Nebraska-01** 1 -- -- -13.0% 0
Nebraska-02** 1 -- -- -8.0% 0
Nebraska-03** 1 -- -- -37.0% 0
Oklahoma 7 24.0% 56.0% -32.0% 1
South Carolina 8 40.0% 53.0% -13.0% 1
Tennessee 11 35.5% 55.5% -20.0% 2
Texas 34 38.5% 48.5% -10.0% 2
Utah 5 23.0% 62.0% -39.0% 1
West Virginia 5 37.0% 45.0% -8.0% 1
Wyoming 3 25.0% 62.0% -37.0% 1

* Maine's four electoral votes are awarded as follows: two for the statewide winner, and one for the winner of each congressional district. ME-01 is about 3.5% more Democratic than the state as a whole, while ME-02 is about 3.5% less Democratic than the state as a whole.

** Nebraska's five electoral votes are awarded as follows: two for the statewide winner, and one for the winner of each congressional district. NE-01 is about 6.0% more Democratic than the state as a whole, NE-02 is about 11.0% more Democratic than the state as a whole, and NE-03 is about 18.0% less Democratic than the state as a whole.

Methodology
The forecast is updated whenever there are enough new polls to warrant an update. The methodology for the forecast is simple and straightforward.

  1. For each state, all polls conducted entirely or partially within the last 30 days are included in the averages. There are two exceptions to this rule.
  2. The first exception are states where no polls were conducted entirely or partially in the last 30 days. Every state has at least one poll.
  3. The second exception comes with polling firms that have conducted more than one poll in a state over the last thirty days. Every polling firm only has one poll per average.
  4. No polling firm discrimination whatsoever. Polls are never excluded because the organization has a bad or partisan reputation.

As we move closer to the election and more data becomes available, the time frames for polls included in the averages will decrease.  


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Democracy (0.00 / 0)
Four years ago my belief in democracy was badly damaged, almost shattered.

We better damn well not blow this.


Dammit Chris (0.00 / 0)
This sucks. Guess it just means we need to buckle down and work even harder. I can only hope that the debates do their work.  

debates won't be decisive, i think (0.00 / 0)
they rarely are, unless somebody screws up.  

[ Parent ]
Obama doesn't excel in debates (0.00 / 0)
At least the couple I've seen during the primaries. That Saddleback show was a nice preview. Obama needs to become more succint in order for his points to stick.

McCain likes zingers, too, so he has a higher chance to land a prepared memorable line, though Obama is much quicker on his feet so a snappy comeback may trump.

I just got debate fever....

Laugh hard. Its a long ways to the bank.  


[ Parent ]
I'm not worried yet but perfectly willing to start if (0.00 / 0)
we don't start seeing some bounce over the next couple days.

Michelle's speech wasn't covered and some good post-house attack days, unless I'm mistaken got replaced by typically bad-for-Obama weekend numbers.

Biden's announcement was kind of a low point for the HRC holdouts so this bounce might get delayed.

Unless I'm mistaken, Thursday's tracking polls should/need to look good for Obama. That will include a couple days of post-Michelle responses and 1 day of post-Hillary responses. And tomorrow's should at least be better than today's.

If not, then I will worry right along side of you, for the reasons you state.


Hillary (4.00 / 2)
The more I think of it, the more I believe this convention, for some, is just opening the wounds of the primary season.  For Hillary supporters, they are being reminded how close they came and painful it was to lose.

My greatest fear is Hillary will bask in this too much.  But even if she throws all her support to Obama believably, it won't help in the short term.  However, I think she can make the feminist case against McCain far better than anyone.

I doubt seriously we'll see this, but I really hope Hillary focuses on McCain even more than she praises Obama.  The convention needs much more McCain bashing, anyway.


[ Parent ]
She should have been picked for VP (4.00 / 3)
end of story. I don't say that as a Clinton fan. But it should have been done. She would have provided a huge bounce, created a unified party and attracted women voters.  

Oh well.


[ Parent ]
Yup (0.00 / 0)
If Obama loses, which is looking more and more likely, his snub of Hillary will be looked upon as the biggest mistake of his career.

[ Parent ]
And if he wins you'll hide under your bed for a few weeks at least, right? (4.00 / 1)


[ Parent ]
It's NOT A Snub (4.00 / 1)
I think that Hillary probably would have been a better pick than Biden, so I would agree on that.

But the fact that Obama didn't choose her is not a snub.  This accepts a personalized frame of reference that is simply not appropriate to what is going on.  By repeating this frame, you are contributing to one of the favorite forms of distorting our political discourse.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Isn't it actually very insulting (4.00 / 4)
to Hillary, and to women in general, to say that she's some sort of hypersensitive shrinking violet who feels "snubbed" by every last little thing Obama does?

Hillary Clinton is not an emo high schooler who cries when she doesn't get invited to the popular kids' party. People need to stop acting like she is.


[ Parent ]
I don't know (0.00 / 0)
I mean, I see what you're saying; only one person could get picked, and it's not a snub to every other person that might have been the running mate. Then again, it seems like Hillary was such an obvious choice that Obama almost had to go out of his way not to pick her. Plus, the 3 A.M.-ish timing of the text message seemed to me like a clear (and quite gratuitous) fuck-you to Hillary.

But at any rate it will certainly be perceived as a snub, especially given the stories about how Hillary was "never even vetted" (even though "vetting" Hillary seems unnecessary, the point is that they weren't really considering her).

Picking Hillary would have generated excitement. But more importantly it would have signaled a reconciliation that would have racial overtones that would be very helpful for Obama. Obama v. Hillary ended up as Black v. White; whoever you blame for that, it damaged Obama badly. The olive branch of an Obama-Hillary ticket would have had a symbolic impact that would blunt the tendency that a lot of white people have to see Obama as "other."

The long and short of it is that Obama would have made victory much, much more likely by picking her, and he didn't. If and when Obama loses, people will look back and wonder what he was thinking.


[ Parent ]
3am text (0.00 / 0)
Was because CNN trumped them just after midnight on the announcement when they had planned for 8am rollout next morning. But I think they mishandled it and should have though about the connotations. It was obvious anyway so I don't know why they dragged it out. Unless they were expecting the negative bounce from it and that is why they left it until the last possible minute before the convention.

[ Parent ]
Hard to believe it was an accident (0.00 / 0)
especially since people had even speculated beforehand that the text would go out at that time. And I don't see how getting scooped at midnight means you have to send it at 3:00. What was wrong with 1:00? Or 5:00? Something else! At any rate, even if it wasn't intentional, as you note it was pretty tone-deaf.

Interesting theory about them purposely trying to bury the Biden pick. But you have to wonder: if they have to time their announcement because they expect it to give them a negative bounce, did it ever occur to them that maybe it wasn't a very good pick?

Hillary as VP would have just been so much smarter.


[ Parent ]
And if and when Obama wins (0.00 / 0)
your lousy prognostication will be forgotten in the euphoria.

[ Parent ]
Yes but this would have been deceptive for 2 reasons (4.00 / 1)
First, Clinton would probably fired up the Republican base, which would not have been measured until much closer to the election, causing a poorly timed Republican bounce (or at least a strong offset to the 'bounce' Dems will likely get when turnout can be estimated a little better.)

2nd, Biden will pay off down the road as he attacks and debates.


[ Parent ]
This Is Entirely Plausible (0.00 / 0)
But I don't think it's a sure thing.  An Obama/Clinton ticket could certainly have been sold as a much more believable change ticket, which could outweigh the points you raise.

However, it's clear by now that Obama doesn't think he needs to do anything more to reinforce his "change" brand.  I think he's mistaken in that, but his decision not to go with Clinton is part of a larger pattern here, and given that pattern, it's not surprising that he didn't choose her.

And, in fact, considering that pattern, it's entirely plausible that the points you raise reflect the broad outlines of the Obama camp in making their decision.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
Let's just get right down to it.. (4.00 / 1)
Obama didn't trust her, and she ran a self-described "kitchen-sink" campaign against him from late February through May 5th.  They're both professional politicians and know how to look good when they're together, but obviously Obama probably just didn't like what she said about him in the primaries.

Would it have been a stronger ticket?  Maybe... It's hard to tell just yet, but clearly he either didn't think he could govern effectively with her, or simply didn't think she deserved the VP spot after what she'd done in the primary.


[ Parent ]
pffft (0.00 / 0)
"probably would fire up the republican base"

This is what I have always heard about Hillary as VP and it strikes me as ridiculous. LET THEM GET STIRED UP. We have a bigger tent and a bigger base IF we can unify as a party. I am much more worried about the dem base being fractured (as polls consistently show) than I am about the shrinking Republican base being fired up. You don't think we have a the enthusiasm and the ground game to deal with a little Clinton Derangement Syndrome?

But guess what WE don't have a unified base. And even better now we have to deal with the Clinton obsessed media dragging Clinton into the ticket ANYWAY. Guess what? She's still on the ticket, in the background, because of the PUMAs (who the media will have a giant magnifying glass on)and the media who will hang her around Obamas neck no matter what he OR she does. She's going to be floating around in the background anyway via psychotic media narratives. Might as well have brought her along for real.

And quite frankly she's as good an "attack" person as Biden. The Clintons know how to attack. They'll "do and say anything" remember?

I don't give two $hits about the Clintons personally. OR Obama. I want to win. and a dream ticket was the best way to go.  


[ Parent ]
Plus (0.00 / 0)
I doubt that having Hillary on the ticket would have fired Republicans up to vote against Obama any more than a month of McCain's "uppity negro" ads already have.

[ Parent ]
You have to be able to govern with the VP (0.00 / 0)
Hillary was never going to be picked, not after she savaged Obama and not with Bill as such a big factor/loose cannon.  Obama has to worry about being able to govern, and he told Hillary early on she wasn't being seriously considered.  She knew that and let people speculate/advocate for her.  She is just thinking of herself and her legacy.  She should really look to Ted Kennedy as an example.

People here have to stop thinking that everyone else is watching this as closely as we and that every move will be reflected instantly in the polls.  Just wait a few days.

The person I am relaly worried about now is Mark Warner, who is going to give a keynote that praises Republicans and bipartisanship.  I hope all HIS fans are happy with it.  Thank the gods for Biden, our best attack dog by far.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
You're Forgetting JFK/LBJ (0.00 / 0)
Not to mention Reagan/Bush.  Both were far more typical of US history.  Old-fashioned marriages of convenience have long been the rule.

The notion of the VP as part of a governing team is an incredibly recent one. In fact, there are just two examples: Clinton/Gore and Bush/Cheney.  The former was arguably successful (although misguided on several levels, I would argue, but that's a policy critique), the latter clearly was not.

So it's not exactly clear why we should think that Hillary's potential role in an Obama administration needed to be considered at all.  I'm virtually positive that it was considered, but that's just because I see it as part of Obama's larger lack of historical perspective.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
But we are in the modern period. (0.00 / 0)
So why shouldn't Obama be thinking in that direction?  He wants more of a partner, and the problem with the Clintons are that they are such drama queens (both of them) that they just get in the way and suck up the oxygen.  I completely sympathize with him.  No way could he have her as VP. Just no way.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
Hmmnnn (4.00 / 2)
I'm not convinced Clinton really wanted to be VP in the first place.

But if Clinton did want to be VP and Obama intentionally decreased the chance of a democratic victory in the fall by not picking her (which is, of course, also debatable), then I have a hard time sympathizing with this choice.  It really shouldnt be about him or what he personally wants.  It really should be about us and what we want, which is to win the election.  The idea that making Barack happy on a personal level is a relevant and critical goal in and of itself seems very dangerous to me.  

John McCain: Health insurance for low income children represents an "unfunded liability."


[ Parent ]
Who's To Say What's "Modern"??? (0.00 / 0)
As I pointed out, the record of this model is not particularly impressive, and there's no reason to think it's a particularly good alternative as a matter of necessity.

Indeed, it looks much more like a matter of convenience for the President who wants a trusty deputy to lighten the load.  But that may very well not be what's best for the party or the country.  I think a lot more critical attention is in order with respect to this model.  Above all, it certainly shouldn't be mistaken for anything "natural" or "traditional", which it certainly is not.

And even if it does have certain advantages beyond those for the President, it may well only turn out to be a transitional arrangement, rather than the stable "modern" form you take it to be.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


[ Parent ]
The Biden Bump (0.00 / 0)
It's entirely possible that there was a "Biden bump" among some voters, offset by a "Not Clinton dip" among others. The latter was probably inevitable. And that's ground that we can make up.


What I don't get is... (0.00 / 0)
So, were people registering support for Obama based on their assumption that Hillary was going to be his VP?  And now that it's not Hillary, they're saying they're voting for McCain?

I just don't get people.


I will say this... (4.00 / 1)
Whatever Clinton said about "not wasting her time" or whatever, clearly Obama should have vetted her as a favor.  This is perhaps one time where Obama's "pragmatism" (ie, well, you don't have that much of a chance anyway, so I'm not going to waste your time) probably ultimately hurt him slightly.

Slightly? (0.00 / 0)
I'd say the problem currently in play is more than slight.

[ Parent ]
I'm guessing that it's mostly temporary... (0.00 / 0)
But will in the end still upset some people who just won't vote.

[ Parent ]
Aaaaaahhh!! (4.00 / 3)
Oh my god. Chris. You give some great analysis almost every damn day. But this I truly do not understand:

I admit that I have a bad feeling about this. So far, the lack of bounce is eerily similar to 2004, when we didn't get a bounce out of the convention.  I am not entirely sure what is going wrong, as I have actually generally liked what the Obama campaign has done over the past week.

Through this whole campaign, people have been freaking out when bounces don't magically appear instantly in the polls: when Obama won the nomination, when he went to Europe, after various endorsements... Totally illogical.

But this takes the cake. You're worried that we aren't getting a convention bounce yet? NO polling has been done since the convention started. None! Can we give it a day or two at least?

Meanwhile, it looks like the Biden pick might have alienated some Clinton supporters, pushing the numbers down for the previous 3 days. But it is senseless to worry about this effect before Hillary speaks tonight. Depending on her speech, all of that could change, and in a very large way. So let's give it a day or two, shall we? This stuff needs to work its way through the system.


No bounce from a convention that hasn't happened yet? (4.00 / 4)
How can that be!  I want my bounce now!

Seriously folks, there are 3 days of the convention left, and 10 weeks to the election.  There will be ups and downs.  It won't be easy.  But don't drive yourself crazy or you will end up crazy.  Everyone needs to occasionally go for a walk, pet the dog, kiss the spouse or partner, read a good book, listen to good music--do something to get away from this for awhile.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
I refuse! (0.00 / 0)
I refuse your sound, common sense advice! But I do agree we should allow for some time for political events to sink in to the public mind. Just because Biden is old news to us doesn't mean a lot of people are still hearing his name fo the first time (and I mean the first time ever, in their entire lives).  

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra

[ Parent ]
Other people move much more slowly (0.00 / 0)
I spent the Firday and Saturday completely out of electronic touch except for a little radio and word of mouth.  Several very political friends I met on Sunday knew little about Biden but were encouraged by what I could tell them about him.  It will take time.  We can now stop worrying about PA, for example.  See where we are Sept 8.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
Oh, Surely They've Heard Of Biden (4.00 / 1)
their time.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
You would think that joke would get old (0.00 / 0)
But it doesn't!

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra

[ Parent ]
No truer words (0.00 / 0)
I'm feeling the need for this break.

The heartbreak of 2000, 2004 and Hillary have got my hands so wrung I now have two pouches of bone dust hanging off my arms.

Plus, for the first time since 92, I have a cadidate I truly want in the White House and not just a vote against the Republicans. Just want this win so bad.....

Thanks for the moment of clarity.



Laugh hard. Its a long ways to the bank.  


[ Parent ]
Thank you! (0.00 / 0)
I want my daily fix of polls like every other political junkie out there, but let's see what actually happens.

I don't pretend to know how this will play out, but I would not expect to see anything but a close race until the debates.  After that, who knows.


[ Parent ]
I'm Not Surprised Either (0.00 / 0)
In fact, the most positive thing I think Obama had going for him coming into this week was the emerging media disenchantment with McCain's use of the POW card.

Now we have two weeks of distraction from that, and McCain gets to start with a clean state, because, of course, the media only remember what the movement conservatives tell them to remember.

This is not to say I think that all is lost, and that nothing happening at the conventions matters.  That would be absurd.  What I am saying, though, is that Obama took quite a hit during the last 6 weeks or so, and the benefit of doing so was that McCain overplayed his hand, and lost some credibility with his base (the media).

Having that media disenchantment grow is crucial for helping to withstand the oncoming slime assault.  I expect that Obaam will get a bounce out of this convention, that he will have a much stronger ground game than McCain, and he will do much better in hanging tough and fighting back than either Kerry or Gore.  But without the asssist of growing media disenchantment with McCain, it really could be a very close thing, when otherwise it could be a blowout.

And, of course, blowout means all sorts of synergy and a much better chance of a fillibuster-proof Senate, plus state lege races that matter a lot for the next decade as reapportionment looms.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3


"I am not entirely sure what is going wrong" (0.00 / 0)
Oh my, I'm going to risk a troll rating, but I'm a life-long Dem and voting for Obama no matter what. My comments below are how I see the race today.

My input is that Obama is still being seen as inexperienced and McCain is perceived as being more capable right now. The Biden pick may just reinforce the "not ready to lead" meme. Selling Obama as ready for prime-time by appealing to our optimism and better nature may be an incomplete strategy. They need to offset his message of possibilities with something more tangible like experience and failing that they need to make McCain unelectable.

I know this is a righty talking point, but I don't think he has much of a resume. How many times did they say he walked away from a high paying job to become a community organizer? I love the guy and even I say woopdy doody doo. McCain is going to come across a million times more seasoned. So selling Obama on accomplishments alone ain't gonna go anywhere if you want my opinion.

And, they need to get off that talking point that he walked away from Wall Street. That does NOT resonate. Sounds pompous and like he was doing those proud people on the south side of Chicago a big favor by blessing them with his time.

Obama's message of hope and possibility (which I buy into 100% btw) should be offset by making McCain totally unpalletable to vote for. Which means some dirty shit needs to go down. Somebody said somewhere that some of us won't be happy until John McCain is dragged on stage and kicked to death.

Rhetorically, yes, that is exactly what I want to happen.  


Laugh hard. Its a long ways to the bank.  


Make McCain = Bush (0.00 / 0)
I think it is simple.  A sizeable portion of the Dem electorate hates Bush and what's happened to the coutry, but they aren't sure Obama can put it right, and they fall back on McCain as a war hero.  They need to be reminded that McCain means 4-8 more years of bad economy, growing income inequality, war, inadequate health care, worsening climate problems, high oil prices, war, incompetent government in the ace of disaster, war etc.  And Obama means more attention to the middle and working class, fairer taxes, health care reform, government economic help, moves toward clean energy, and international cooperation.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.

[ Parent ]
5 stages of grief backsliding (0.00 / 0)
At this point, the Biden announcement and the convention have had the major effect of pushing Hillary's supporters from the ACCEPTANCE  stage back to the ANGER stage.

So I guess we have to go thru the stages again and see what happens.

This is getting so tiresome.


Hillary knew and yet she let people speculate (0.00 / 0)
Why does it always have to be about her and Bill and why do her supporters always think only of their own pique?

We have a country and planet in crisis, people actually dying in Iraq and at home from lack of health care, 500,000 more children in poverty and these people just can't get over perceived slights.  Why can't more people see the big picture and join in the effort to dump the GOP?  One great thing about Obama is that he (like Kennedy) encourages people to think beyond themselves to the community as a whole.  Why is that so hard?  I personally find it inspiring.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
Just FYI (4.00 / 2)
Most people I know have no idea who Biden is. They have just started asking me about him. They did not watch his speech, just as they do not watch almost any speeches and are not watching the Convention (or not much of it and not on purpose). Are we supposed to expect bounces within a couple days of new events? I would imagine we need to wait a week or probably two before we get any significant readings from the polls.

Seriously - Biden has been Obama's running mate for half a week! We should expect most people to take their time figuring out who he is and what he means to the ticket. They will find out casually, by catching snippets of news and talking to people like you and me. Give em a week, at least!

"Don't hate the media, become the media" -Jello Biafra


Wasn't it a diary posted here (4.00 / 1)
by fladem which sort of predicted what we are seeing now?

The research in that diary concluded:

The polling numbers from July show one thing: most Presidential races are decided in the summer, not the fall.  The table below compares shows the state of each race since 1976 in early July and the first week in September.  Also shown is the undecided.

The Republicans worked like little demons tagging Obama ALL summer long personally; they worked as well at tagging their guy in a positive manner.

Could someone please point out to me were we did likewise to John McSame and the GOP?

Has the train left the station???

The calendar is not our friend and every day gone by without inflicting damage on the brand of John McSame and the useless GOP is a day wasted.

 


I agree (4.00 / 1)
I think Obama's relative weakness in the polls results from his failure to expose the real John McCain to lower information voters.  Merely by way of example, I've read on several occasions now that a shockingly high percentage of those queried by pollsters erroneously believe that McCain is pro-choice.  I can't understand why Obama and the Democratic Party more generally haven't disabused voters of that notion long before now.  

[ Parent ]
I'd have to see polling on VP's (0.00 / 0)
before I assign much weight to the fact that - three days after picking a VP - there isn't a bounce.

We'll have to wait to see what happens, in the convention bounce.  I have a feeling the bounce will be small, if there, because immediately, you have the Republican convention.


Remember 1992 (0.00 / 0)
Maybe they will pull such a hatefest that it turns people off and makes the Obamas look sweet.  That happened in 1992 at Bush I's convention.

I loved Rachel Maddow yesterday telling Pat Buchanan how  awful and excluded his speech at the 1992 convention made her feel as a 19 year old person--gay person, although she didn't add that, but it was clear that's what she meant.  He was speechless for a moment.

John McCain--He's not who you think he is.


[ Parent ]
A bounce is always temporary anyway (0.00 / 0)
The situation always gravitates back to the mean. Now it could be that picking Biden hurts now but will help later on. Obama could have picked Hillary, gotten a huge bounce and then got into trouble further down the line from it. Only time will tell. I know it isn't ideal to be in this position but I still caution people from reading too much into a couple of days tracking numbers. If we are in the same place at the weekend I'll be worried mind.

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