Palin Doesn't Know What A Vice-President Does

by: Chris Bowers

Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 13:28


Don't take it from me--take it from Palin herself:


Here is a rough transcript, with the money quote coming in at around 2:50:

"[A]s for that V.P. talk all the time, I'll tell you, I still can't answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the V.P. does every day?

She doesn't know, huh? Hopefully, she has read The Constitution since she made that statement.  
Chris Bowers :: Palin Doesn't Know What A Vice-President Does

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Palin Doesn't Know What A Vice-President Does | 106 comments
Who's Afraid of Sarah Palin? (0.00 / 0)
Not I.  

A thorough analysis debunking each of McCain's likely strategies behind the Palin pick, in my new diary post, here.  

She makes McCain look really old. (4.00 / 4)
The visual contrast between the two of them when they are standing together is really striking. I never really noticed before seeing them together how much McCain shakes. Standing next to her, McCain comes across kind of like Obama's uncle who served in WWII at the convention. Let's honor his service, but make sure to talk loudly because he's losing his hearing.

miasmo.com
[ Parent ]
Great diary, though the 'comment' (4.00 / 2)
button isn't appearing for me, so I can't reply there.

I think you lay everything out, with one exception. Tapping Palin for VP undermines the security message. It undermines the theme of McCain's campaign, that seeks to remind us at every turn that the world is dangerous, bristling with enemies. Everything they do presupposes a dangerous world, and they completely stepped all over that by picking someone who doesn't speak to that narrative.

I'm thrilled.

[ Parent ]
Joel, I think you're absolutely right! (0.00 / 0)
Thanks for bringing that up.

[ Parent ]
Sooooo qualified, a sure success as president of the Senate (4.00 / 6)
Only after they have explained to her what the Senate is, of course.
:D

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter
Isn't she just saying, inarticulately, (4.00 / 3)
that being Alaska's governor is a more meaningful job than being Vice President?  
Maybe (4.00 / 2)
But that, of course, would be even worse. :)
[ Parent ]
Ridiculously out of context (4.00 / 1)
"I still can't answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does everyday? I'm used to being very productive and working real hard in an administration. We want to make sure that that VP slot would be a fruitful type of position, especially for Alaskans and for the things that we're trying to accomplish up here for the rest of the U.S., before I can even start addressing that question."

Do you really think she's saying, in the context of this discussion,  that she has no idea what the VP does?  She's clearly invoking the well-known perception that the position doesn't do much, and that she would entertain taking the position only if she could make it a more productive job.  Let's try not to dumb down the discussion, Chris.  Let's critique her in a way that matters.

[ Parent ]
let's not dumb down the discussion... (4.00 / 1)
you're right. We should stay high-minded and wait for the GOP to mock and deride us unfairly, and then get grumpy about it when we lose.

I mean, you're right, totally -- that was exactly what she was saying, and it's unfair.

In the meantime, I would like to purchase a boatload of unfair and dump it on these two clowns.

[ Parent ]
Well, let's use it on soemthing better (4.00 / 2)
like her being a crazy conservative psychopath who wants to subsidize the oil industry.
[ Parent ]
that too (4.00 / 1)
I have a big boat for all of this stuff. Seriously. We can get the longshoremen in Oregon to load it off, and then get it out on trucks. Plus, with these new shipping containers, I can even carry mutually incompatible loads of unfair.
[ Parent ]
That would make sense . . . (4.00 / 1)
if Chris's post were a campaign ad.  But I'm not sure there are many undecided voters hanging around OpenLeft, trying to make up their minds.
[ Parent ]
openleft is a bit of both (4.00 / 2)
On the one hand, people saying smart, intelligent things.

On the other, a bit of red meat.

Usually, the red meat is presented in a theoretical fashion, as in "here's something the media could use, I wonder if and how they will." Sometimes it's just fun. In our little fantasyland, OpenLeft blog posts are on the CNN front page.

[ Parent ]
Now she wants to be (0.00 / 0)
a VP "especially for Alaskans"?? Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn about Alaskans and don't need a United States VP who will make a state the population size of Memphis her priority.

Aside from that, I think this was a totally clueless remark. Like McCain, she evidently slept through the last two decades when Cheney and Gore made it abundantly clear what vice-presidents do. But being aware of that would be so 21st century. Looks to me like McCain picked her because she was the only one he could find that couldn't outsmart him.

[ Parent ]
Alaskans still haven't accepted (0.00 / 0)
that Stevens really went a bridge too far!
The need something to compensate that $398 million shock.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter
[ Parent ]
Except not for polar bears. (4.00 / 2)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

The woman hates polar bears, how sick is that?

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
You hear that whizzing sound? (4.00 / 2)
That's republican president Theodor Roosevelt rotating in his grave. If he could get out, he would run amok. Once there was a time when republicans were actually for conservation of nature - but what happened to his legacy?

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter
[ Parent ]
Sarah: (4.00 / 2)
The VP job is kind of like when you came in 2nd at that beauty pageant. Remember, you hung around waiting for something to happen to the winner?

(Sorry, that was just mean).

That's racist innuendo! (0.00 / 0)
Check this picture on an album by Miss Alaska 1984, the #1, Maryline Blackburn, and you'll understand:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/maryline2

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter
[ Parent ]
Don't misunderstand that headline above, pls... (0.00 / 0)
just wanted to say that it would present a very damaging view of Ms. Palin, under the circumstances, if she would admit she wanted the #1, an African american singer, to fall on her nose.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter
[ Parent ]
The new McCain button (4.00 / 4)
courtesey of CTBob:



"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers

[ Parent ]
Wow! I remember CT Bob (0.00 / 0)
I read his reports about the Lamont campaign and the liveblogging during the lection night. Great guy! I couldn't remember that he is good at image editiong, too, though.
Looks great!

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter
[ Parent ]
Perfect! (3.00 / 4)
That is just what McCain and the GOP wants the Left to do.

That's right kbuck just make her out to be a pretty bimbo. You don't want the women's vote anyway, right?

Pure Genius. Being a sexist is so kewl!

[ Parent ]
Did she, or did she not compete in a beauty contest? (4.00 / 1)


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."
[ Parent ]
She did . . . (4.00 / 3)
which is completely different than photoshopping her into a campaign image AS a beauty contestant.
[ Parent ]
I say you play that card spitball (4.00 / 1)
Paint her a bimbo beauty queen. Go for it.

I say post it on every blog you can and even write letter to the editors of major newspapers. Get on the phone and call talk radio too and label her the beauty queen It's a winner dude. You are so friggin smart.

[ Parent ]
I have never used to word "bimbo" (4.00 / 2)
nor have I implied that competing in a beauty contest implies anything about the contestant's intelligence.

All of that came from you.

But, I think your reaction is part of the reason McCain chose her as VP.  

"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."

[ Parent ]
" Did she, or did she not compete in a beauty contest?" (4.00 / 2)
Your implications were pretty clear. Beauty contest bad. Photoshop picture not bad. As Rove would say she's fair game, right?

More Photoshop please!

The GOP just loves you guys. It's almost like after all the sexism against Hillary here and at the Orange Monster they knew exactly how you would react! Wow how did they know!

Now if Obama will just call her 'Sweety' and say 'She's likable enough' it would move some more of the women's vote to  McCain.

Toss in a few B words and talk about hormone imbalance and the GOP just hit the trifecta.

[ Parent ]
Take a look in the mirror if you want to see who the GOP loves (0.00 / 0)


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."
[ Parent ]
it is true (4.00 / 2)
Women travel in a pack... taunt one, you taunt them all. Wait, what?

I was shocked by the sexism about HRC; women felt it more viscerally. But that doesn't mean they can't distinguish between a genuinely intelligent woman and one who's been climbing the ladder with little more than sex appeal.

[ Parent ]
She's the protege of Crooked (4.00 / 1)
Ted Stevens for chrissakes.

And did we mention she is a forced childbirther?

If McCain thinks she is going to help him win women's votes, he has seriously underestimated the size of the self-loathing female population. But I guess that's an easy mistake when you're Republican.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Oops (0.00 / 0)
overestimated.

Montani semper liberi
[ Parent ]
Good story about Stevens/Palin connection (0.00 / 0)
at MyDD:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008...

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter
[ Parent ]
Look at your words-- (4.00 / 2)
"who's been climbing the ladder with little more than sex appeal"

I think this is what majorityretort2 is objecting to.  Palin's been successful by running against the corruption within Alaska's Republican Party and by "idenitfying" with "blue collar class values."  To ignore these and attribute her popularity almost entirely to sex appeal is, arguably, sexist (i.e. she must be popular because she's a beauty queen.  The same lazy,cliched narrative as sleeping to the top, etc.)

 

[ Parent ]
it's a good point (0.00 / 0)
actually.

My own feeling -- and I think this is not too controversial -- is that this woman would be nowhere right now were it not for her being a woman. Such could never have been said for either HRC or Obama (as a black man.) Whether the extent to which the GOP is pandering can be pointed out without hitting the issue you describe is itself an important point.

[ Parent ]
So all pretty women (4.00 / 1)
are bimbos, in your view? Should he have put a beard on her or photoshopped in a big wart?
[ Parent ]
My view? (0.00 / 0)
I'm not the one photoshopping or making sexist comments on this thread dude. Can't you read?
[ Parent ]
Arm candy is as arm candy does. (0.00 / 0)
And if the shoe fits, she's got to wear it.

Montani semper liberi
[ Parent ]
Nice (4.00 / 1)
I take it your a woman from you handle. So if a woman is pretty she can't be smart also?

Her bio says she is not dumb that's for sure. You don't sit on a city council, they get elected mayor, and then get elected governor on looks alone. Especially when you married right out of college, have 5 kids one with Down syndrome and the eldest being deployed to Iraq in September. I mean that's not exactly the single hottie sleeping her way to the top is it?

Some of the comments on this thread are so knee jerk and clueless it's sad.

[ Parent ]
I don't know where you come from, (0.00 / 0)
but where I live, in Tennessee, if you are part of the ruling party then yeah, you can be pretty dumb and sit on the city council. You can even be mayor.

And with friends like Ted Stevens, of course you can be governor.

Maybe you live in a blue state? I'm guessing here ...

On the other hand, if she did sleep her way to the top then that would explain why John "American Gigilo" McCain chose her.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Surely then, (0.00 / 0)
if being on a city council or being a part-time mayor means you're smart, no way could the president of the United States ever be dumb as dirt. Right?
[ Parent ]
Yeah, I can read. (4.00 / 2)
What I read is that you think a picture of McCain's 3rd beauty queen put next to him in a picture is somehow sexist. Some photoshopped pic of the two will be on posters, bumper stickers, and ads all over the country. So should she have had glasses on, or a pantsuit? Would that have made it not-sexist? What is the magic prescription, pray tell?

Frankly, it's hyper-reactive whining like this that brought feminism down.

[ Parent ]
Why I posted that pic (4.00 / 2)
I can't speak for CTBob who made the button, but FWIW I posted that pic not to make innuendos along beauty queen/bimbo line (thanks for assuming that though) but because I think it emphasizes McCain's age, and the fact that Palin is younger and significantly less experienced than Obama. The fact that McCain - who let's not forget, is old enough to be considering a one-term pledge - would try to compensate for his weaknesses with someone so green and unknown in an attempt to butress his mavericky image is downright pathetic. And I think we should be reminding folks of McCain's own record of sexism and I think CTBob's image is a creative way to do that.


"I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that."
-Lawrence Summers
[ Parent ]
I think it's a great button (4.00 / 2)
because it hits McCain (and his authoritarian followers) right where it hurts.

It says basically, "Buying the temporary attention of an attractive woman really does not make you look as cool as you think it does. In fact it makes you look ridiculous."

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
this gives the obama (4.00 / 1)
campaign the perfect opportunity to challenge mccain on his decision making accumen, no need to attack a light weight in experience but go hard after the supposed maverick on this and many of his decisions which seem to undercut his experience claim as a trait he has over obama, this is a short term bounce decision that will hurt the gop ticket in the long run.
Yep, I like it (4.00 / 1)
Feeds into the judgment argument that he has been building.
[ Parent ]
Yeah (4.00 / 1)
Going after a women who has more executive experience than Obama would be a smart thing to do. The on the fence women would just love that. It's not like they haven't had sexism up to their eyeballs already.

Maybe she should just be labeled a 'bimbo'. That would sell.

[ Parent ]
word (4.00 / 2)
attacking her is not going to be as simple as the gallery has been suggesting all afternoon.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare
[ Parent ]
Weren't you one of the people slandering Sebelius? (0.00 / 0)
Can't remember how many of you PUMAs who dump over here have said it, but I know at least one or two of you trashed Sebelius as being unqualified, especially as compared to Hillary.  Yet, Sebelius has more executive experience than Hillary.  Of course, Palin has more executive experience than Hillary, and McCain, and Obama, and Biden...so, just WTF are you saying?

Please, just go vote for John 'My wife is a c*nt' McCain, he is obviously not sexist and now he has the ticket with the most executive experience.  Its a two-fer winning combo in your book!

[ Parent ]
WTF are you talking about? (0.00 / 0)
Sebelius? I never mentioned her in my post or ever here. Your post is quite unintelligent.
[ Parent ]
thanks (4.00 / 4)
for implying that women only look at our country and its future through the lens of their gender.

fuck that and your trollish indignation.

My mom called me - appalled at this decision.  She is mid-60s, previous republican, loved Hillary, and is very upset at this pick.

You can yell about that threat of women calling "sexism" at every opportunity.  Perhaps this fear-mongering will work on some scared, clueless men, but I have much more faith in the women of this country.

It is extremely obvious Palin is not Presidential material.  Her sex is not the reason.  Her response on this youtube clearly proves she is not ready to be a "heartbeat" away.

Women know a strong, substantive leader when they see one.  Palin is no Hillary Clinton.

[ Parent ]
If you read the thread (0.00 / 0)
you will see that there are a number of articulate posters that disagree with you on what it was Palin was actually saying. You got it all wrong. Talking about viewing things through a lens! You are certainly doing that.

Oh and I take it you don't claim to speak for all women?

[ Parent ]
whew (4.00 / 1)
was starting to worry you were ignoring me :)

glad to know I wasn't excluded from your obvious need to push everybody's buttons and get them all riled up.  I'm just not into it anymore.  later.

[ Parent ]
Actually The Constitution (0.00 / 0)
does not designate any powers or duties to the VP. So reading it does not give a job description.

The only thing the Constitution refers to is (from wikipedia):

"the first person in the presidential line of succession, becoming the new President of the United States upon the death, resignation, or removal of the president, serving out the balance of that presidential term no matter how much or little time remains in it.
...
As designated by the Constitution of the United States, the vice president also serves as the President of the Senate, and may break tie votes in that chamber.[2] He or she may be assigned additional duties by the president but, as the Constitution assigns no executive powers to the vice president, in performing such duties he or she acts only as an agent of the president."

Other than that the VP's daily duties are what the President assigns to them as noted above.

As for Palin - same as Biden - no one votes for the VP, they vote for who is running for President. Biden didn't give Obama a bounce, Palin probably won't either.

Although I am going to keep an eye on those women who are still on the fence. They wanted Hillary and didn't get her. Palin could be a fall back position for them, you never know.

It may just be a slick move by McCain.

I thought they said it was Hillary they wanted (4.00 / 2)
Not just any woman. They would have been up in arms if Obama had picked Sebelius but will run to McCain because he picked Palin?
[ Parent ]
Perhaps (0.00 / 0)
Maybe quite likely if they read the sexism on this thread.

The picture above and Chris depiction that she is clueless is the type of thing that will turn women against Obama and his supporters in a heartbeat.

You know what you are missing here is Obama was being held to one standard in who he picked and McCain's standard is a whole lot different.

[ Parent ]
Tortured logic I guess (0.00 / 0)
Probably why its best to keep the focus on McCain - the Repubs aren't attacking Biden.
[ Parent ]
Don't you know (0.00 / 0)
it's okay if you're Republican?

Montani semper liberi
[ Parent ]
It's a bit different in practise.. (0.00 / 0)
..so you may want to consult this information, too:
http://www.senate.gov/artandhi...

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter
[ Parent ]
I've read that before (0.00 / 0)
It says nothing different. In fact it verifies what the Constitution says and doesn't say. Other than tiebreaker votes in the Senate which I did not mention because everyone knows about that your link offers nothing new that the Constitution says that I didn't include from wiki.

The fact is the VP does not know what their duties will be until assigned them by the President. The Constitutions does not spell any of that out for them.

[ Parent ]
You wrote "The only thing the Constitution refers to" (0.00 / 0)
Are we supposed to be mindreading you and understand you really meant to say 'the only thing, apart from tiebreaker votes in the Senate which I do not mention because everyone knows about that'???
Trottel.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter
[ Parent ]
OK (0.00 / 1)
I gave you too much credit. I should have spelled out the obvious. Well obvious to everyone but you who neither is a mind reader or is up on when the VP votes in the Senate...

Which btw is not a daily duty which is what Palin was addressing - daily duties - which again because you are a little slow is not spelled out in the constitution.

I'm done with your silliness.

[ Parent ]
You never give anybody credit here (0.00 / 0)
as I see in your list of comments, du Klugscheisser.
:P

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter
[ Parent ]
Article I, Section 3 (0.00 / 0)
"The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided."
http://www.usconstitution.net/...

Hmm, this may come in handy someday, dontchathink?

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter

[ Parent ]
That's right! (4.00 / 4)
As Article XIIVLIXCVII of the Constitution clearly states:

"The Vice President shall serve to further the interests of such extractive industries as contribute mightily to his Party's coffers. Further, he shall promote an unhinged manichean worldview, leading to catastrophic wars around the globe, while forming a shadow government within the executive branch to effect those wars, while remaining, to the greatest extent possible, hidden from public view. And finally, he shall work steadfastly to eviscerate this very document."

Everyone knows that...

Lol! But don't forget the 2006 ammendment (4.00 / 2)
'The Vice President shall also have the privilege to shoot anybody straight into the kisser, without having to accout for such action.'

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter
[ Parent ]
The one problem we may have with her (4.00 / 1)
is that expectations will be so low for her foreign policy knowledge. If she says anything coherent about Russia or Iran or Iraq people will go "Whoa... Maybe she knows what she's talking about".

Expectations Expectations Expectations...

yes (4.00 / 1)
and they'll be coaching her heavily on that. During debates maybe Joe Lieberman can whisper answers in her ear.
[ Parent ]
This does not strike me as a big deal (4.00 / 4)
I took her comments to mean that she would want a substantive policy role to play in the administration before accepting a VP position.
Americans are kind to pretty girls (4.00 / 3)
i dont mean that totally in a sexist way, but rather to spotlight the implicit biases that currently exist. She handles the grilling of trooper gate very well, and the Kudlow snags her on the VP comment. but she has an easy out to say she wanted to specifically know what her VP roll would look like, because running Alaska was serious executive business and she didn't want to be a show girl. she can even punch back harder saying she'd been a beauty contestant before and didn't need to take a step back.

Attempts to frame her as some stupid chick will not play well since she is reasonably articulate. And if she misspeaks one or twice but can recover gracefully America will not be cruel to her.

I think the initial reactions to her are all wrong. this is not an easy pick to take down.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

[ Parent ]
Take her down or ignore her (4.00 / 1)
The latter may be the smartest strategy.
[ Parent ]
People just need to point out that she's extremely conservative (0.00 / 0)
And also, we need to point out that her husband works for big oil.  
[ Parent ]
Id like to hear her explain (4.00 / 1)
why the off shore drilling deal was bad - why she would be against forcing the oil companies to sell the oil from America IN America.

I think you are right that there is plenty to hit her on oil related topics. She's inherited all of McCain's bone headed plans - make her defend them.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

[ Parent ]
Meh, (0.00 / 0)
I could do it.

If I were head to head with her, I would say, "You have four children, yes? So let me ask, who made you have those four children? Was it your husband, or the government?"

"What, you're telling me you had them of your own free will, you wanted them? All of them? No one had to force you to have all those children?"

"Well now I'm confused, because here you're telling me you went and chose to have four children, but you don't believe that any of the rest if us would do the same? You believe if the government doesn't force us to have children, we won't have them?"

"I guess you just think you are that much better than the rest of us."

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
huh? (0.00 / 0)


Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare
[ Parent ]
You said she would not be easy to take down. (0.00 / 0)
But she would be. You just have to hit her where she's vulnerable -- on hypocrisy and authoritarianism.

Her views are not those of regular Americans, make her explain them!


Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
swing voters are not voting on arguments about how people decide to have children (0.00 / 0)
your general point here i don't disagree with. you lost me on the example.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare
[ Parent ]
Anyone who votes for the government (0.00 / 0)
to force women into childbirth is not a swing voter, they're a Republican.

So now it's my turn to be lost. I have no idea what group of people you are talking about when you say "swing voters."

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
And no, (0.00 / 0)
Americans are not necessarily kind to pretty girls. Being attractive is very much a double-edged sword, for women anyway.

Montani semper liberi
[ Parent ]
I feel (0.00 / 0)
like you only read the title and didn't read the paragraph in context. given her good speaking skills I think trying to catch her in a twist of words is not going to score dems any points with the American public. In no way am I denying the complex mixed treatment 'pretty' women are treated with. What I am arguing is that how people react to 'prettiness' is circumstantial, and that in this case things are favorable for Palin.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare
[ Parent ]
I read the paragraph. (4.00 / 1)
The problem is you only address one half of the "implicit biases."

People like pretty women when they are blank slates, on whom they can project anything they wish. They like them a whole lot less when they have ideas and opinions. Palin will get a pass at first, because of the "new kid" effect. But when that wears off, Cinderella will turn into a pumpkin faster than you can say "bippity boppity boo."

The reason is, as much as people like to put a pretty woman on a pedestal, they also love to see her fall.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Undercuts (0.00 / 0)
As is clear from the contention among our own ranks, "taking down" Palin would be a sensitive issue.  I think where choosing her is problematic for McCain is that it undercuts his emphasis on experience. (Even though she has a couple years of executive experience, Obama has more years of public service total).  Further, given McCain's base has been prone to suggest that Obama is underqualified purely due to his youth, having a VP younger than he - particularly considering McCain's age - is unlikely to score points with many boomers.

Whereas Republicans have used "experience" arguments from the mouths of Clinton and Biden to attack Obama, McCain's own words could damage his VPs credibility (although setting up such an ad may be treacherous).

[ Parent ]
Bullshit. (4.00 / 1)
I am tired of this idea that "you can't hit her because she's a girl."

Maybe that's not what you're saying, but it is the feeling I am getting from a couple of these comments in a row now.

She is not a girl, she is a politician. You can hit her and you should, only hit her for what she deserves to be hit for.

It doesn't seem that hard to me, there is plenty of space above the belt -- corruption, authoritarianism, anti-science (she's a freaking global warming denier and creationist!), forced childbirth.

The woman runs the whole gamut of delicious wingnuttery.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Don't Go There (4.00 / 5)
What she said was perfectly reasonable.  The VP's job by the Constitution doesn't mean very much.  What determines its significance, in large measure, is precisely what the President decides to let the VP do.  So what Palin said makes perfect sense.

There is plenty else to criticize.  This gets into rightwing-style word-twisting territory, and only makes us look as bad as them.

Me?  I prefer the idea of praising the choice--"Here's the chance to vote for someone who could be impeached before taking office!"

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"

As if... (0.00 / 0)
..anybody ever gets impeached in the US. Not even Nixon.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter
[ Parent ]
plenty else (4.00 / 1)
your idea is strong legit one that doesn't alienate women.

I also think we let the GOP walk right into their own terrorism cowboy testosterone trap. Rather than attack her (via Biden or other) let her try to look tough on her own in Americans' imaginations. Obama and Biden just have to demonstrate they are tough guys. The onus will be on her to do the same. If she is attacked then you give a scenario for her to fight back in and look tough. But if she needs to demonstrate toughness abstractly, then Americans will have to try and imagine her being tough. I'm sure she's a reasonably competent executive. But I want to hear her say all those GOP phrases... I want to hear her say things like "I won't negotiate with terrorists", demonstrate some cowboy swagger. I doubt she can pull off the "tough bitch" image like Hillary can. Let her try, I bet she'll come across as not masculine enough. This is of course sexist. But better Americans be sexist on their own rather than the Obama camp.

Michael Bloomberg, prince of corporate welfare

[ Parent ]
No it wasn't reasonable. (4.00 / 2)
If she were running in 1812 on the Federalist ticket or 1856 with Buchanan, then yes that would be a reasonable statement.

But the days of the VP not being worth "a warm bucket of piss" as cactus Jack famously said, are long gone. VPs have been critical and integral parts of administrations for over 30 years now. For Palin not to know that just drips of experience and someone who's not ready for prime-time. If even the interviewer (Kudlow?) was a little taken aback by her response, someone who is a conservative, then you can bet that swing-voters will be very concerned if this person, who has a much greater statistical chance of being president then past VP picks, is this unqualified for office.

Dems don't have to scream this from the top of their lungs, it will become apparent to people in more subtle ways. But yes, the clip is good, and the Dems really do need to start using "heart-beat away" line more now.  

[ Parent ]
drips of <i>inexperience</i> (0.00 / 0)
should say
[ Parent ]
So . . . (0.00 / 0)
what did Mondale and George HW Bush do that was so integral?
[ Parent ]
Well (0.00 / 0)
Mondale was actually the first example of the VP as a top official in an administration. Both with policy and congressional relations.

I don't know as much about what HW did, but he certainly calmed peoples' nerves about Reagan's age in 1980 and beyond because you had someone who had mountains of government and foreign policy experience who could step in if need be.

I don't quite understand why you are being so defensive about Palin. Are you afraid of Democrats being tarred as sexist? Palin is a weak candidate not because she is a woman but because she is a weak candidate.  

[ Parent ]
Nobody knows much about what HW did (0.00 / 0)
Can his CIA background be the reason for that? One way or the other, I guess it's safe to assume that he was at least a valuable adviser on intelligence and foreign policy issues for Reagan, if not more.

Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested, we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back, nor did we falter
[ Parent ]
You're Just Making Things Worse (4.00 / 2)
Palin was clearly saying that she couldn't say she'd be interested if she didn't know what McCain had in mind for her to do.  This would be a reasonable thing for any VP candidate to say, particularly a relative long-shot.

The Clinton/Gore relationship was considerably different from Bush/Quayle or Reagan/Bush.  Any prospective VP would want to know what they were getting into.

The more we try to hyperventilate over it, the more red-state-like we appear to be.  There are plenty of legitimate problems with McCain picking her for us to focus on, we not only don't need this one, it diminishes the rest of our arguments.

"Senate passes expanded GI bill despite Bush, McCain opposition"

[ Parent ]
I completely disagree (4.00 / 1)
And I think it's a bit of hyperbole to say we're hyperventilating over this.

Please Paul and junstinh, I'd really like to know what's really going on here. Do you think this will come off as sexist? As Dems beating up on a woman VP candidate? Because I really cannot understand why you're being so extremely defensive and overly fair towards Palin on this one when I doubt you'd take the same tack if this were, say, Mitt Romney making this statement.  

[ Parent ]
Of course (0.00 / 0)
This line of attack is just stupid.  The fact she is a woman makes no difference in that regard.  It does make a difference in that some will think of these attacks, rightly or wrongly, as sexist.

The bottom line is she looked smart and competent saying what she said, not stupid and ignorant.  Attacking that makes you us look stupid and ignorant.

There is so much more to attack than this, like pointing out that McCain was clearly disingenuous when he attacked Obama on experience.

[ Parent ]
Thanks for the personal insult (0.00 / 0)
Appreciate that. But while we're pointing out obvious things, maybe you could entertain the notion that what came off as smart and competent to you did not come off that way to other people (Bowers included, not to mention the republican interviewer).  
[ Parent ]
Insult not intended (0.00 / 0)
The point wasn't to personally insult you.  The point is no reasonable person actually thinks she doesn't know what the constitutional role of the vice presidency is.  Do either you or Chris really think she doesn't know?  Of course not.

Thus, when you attack along these lines it makes all of us look stupid.  It turns Palin into the sarcastic smarty-pants and us into the ignorants who can't read between the lines.  I much prefer it the other way around.

[ Parent ]
But that's not the only argument that could be made (0.00 / 0)
if you had read what I actually was saying you'd see I wasn't at all talking about the constitutional role of the VP as others were. I was talking about the actual role of the VP which has changed over the centuries above and well beyond the puny duties required of it in the constitution. I realize others were arguing she didn't know the constitutional duties, but I was arguing she didn't appear to understand the current responsibilities of the VP. Those are two very different arguments. And as a reasonable person I'm telling you that I saw that clip and she looked like an absolute idiot who truly wasn't sure what current VPs do. They've all played integral parts of administrations since at least Mondale in 1976. For her to not know that speaks to the amount of attention she's given to national issues and politics to that point in her career. Which does not speak well of her knowledge or ability to be either VP or president.
[ Parent ]
Current responsibilities (0.00 / 0)
Well, I'll agree my response was to the group more than you, specifically.  By the time I respond to a response to a response it is pretty easy to lose track of who said exactly what.

But even given this, I still disagree.  The role of the VP is completely determined by the president.  Just because the past two VPs wielded real power doesn't mean the next one will.  It is still a reasonable question asked in a snarky style, which I appreciate.

[ Parent ]
Suddenly the words don't count? (0.00 / 0)
She could have said something on the order of "I wouldn't have a comment until I knew Senator McCain's expectations of his vice president". Instead she said she'd have to ask "somebody" what the vp does -- not what she'd be expected to do, but what the vp DOES -- present tense.

Call it nitpicking, but at the least it suggests a certain cluelessness about the way the government has operated for the last couple decades or more. That said, how to best get the point about her vast unsuitability across is another issue. From what I've seen so far, she may be her own best attacker.

[ Parent ]
Best strategy I've seen (0.00 / 0)
"From what I've seen so far, she may be her own best attacker."

[ Parent ]
Right! (0.00 / 0)
"This gets into rightwing-style word-twisting territory, and only makes us look as bad as them."

Exactly my point, upthread.  

[ Parent ]
Cheney will bring her up to speed (4.00 / 1)


"It sounds wrong...
     ...but its right."
Seriously, (0.00 / 0)
I'm pretty sure we are looking at Cheney's third term, right here.

Old Man McCain does not have four more years in him, and there's no way the Republicans are leaving the presidency in the hands of Palin. I just don't buy that.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Strange post (4.00 / 1)
Clearly, she was dissing the role of Vice President, claiming that her job as Governor was far more important.  Still funny, but this has nothing to do with the Constitution.

I can see how this might work for McCain, though, but reading the thread above.  It takes very little for some of Hillary's supporters to see sexism.  Or, perhaps, it takes very little for some to actually say sexist things.  Either way, some Hillary supporters will jump to Palin's defense when the perceive -- and rightly or wrongly, they will perceive -- sexism directed her way.

It's a trap that will catch at least a few votes.  But I suspect going with such an obviously political choice will lose more votes than it gains.

But I heard Palin speak a bit this morning and she is clearly smart and pretty good on the stump.  It will be interesting to watch how this plays out.

Not Hillary supporters, (4.00 / 1)
Obama haters.

There's a difference. And the Obama haters were never going to vote for him anyway.

Montani semper liberi

[ Parent ]
Very good point (4.00 / 1)
I snooped around some PUMA hangouts and I definitely got the impression that those that just hate Obama think this is a fine choice.  When abortion comes up they complain about some expect them to be kept on a leash just due to that one issue.  There is some real anger, there.  And yes, they were never going to vote for Obama in any situation.

Former Hillary supporters who are open to voting for Obama, however, are far less impressed.

[ Parent ]
Palin Doesn't Know What A Vice-President Does | 106 comments
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