Tuesday Post-convention Thread

by: Chris Bowers

Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 23:34


I have managed to get online using a computer with a screen and a keyboard that are each slightly smaller than one of my hands. It was incredibly frustrating not being able to blog during that train wreck, but here are some quick thoughts:

  • Nothing says "change" like being endorsed by  being endorsed by Bush in prime time.

  • Lieberman called himself a Democrat twice. Twice.

  • Given how amazing John McCain is at wo0rking across party lines, why is partisanship even a problem at all in the Senate?

  • The cognitive dissonace and obvious pandering, superficiality of Republicans cheering Bill Clinton was priceless.

  • Why, exactly, are families "off the table?" Republicans have campaigned for decades on their "family values." Also, several speakers tonight talked about adoption. Further, the biggest applause lines of the night came from calls to outlaw abortion. Yet further, spouses always give speeches at conventions like these, and always appear on the campaign trail. If you can campaign on families, why can't your family be questioned? Kinda feels like candidates, especially Republicans, wanting to have their cake and eat it, too.

  • The entire Republican argument for their ticket feels extremely forced and theoretical. It isn't what Republicans actually believe and like to run on in most cases. Can't imagine that twisting yourself to be able to cheer for Bill and Hillary Clinton makes much sense to Republicans.

  • The only way that tonight helped McCain is that it might take some attention off Palin. Otherwise, pretty terrible. I wonder how many people stuck around after Bush and Thompson to hear Lieberman's somewhat better speech.

  • Tonight will not be reflected in the tracking polls tomorrow morning.

This is an open thread. What did you see tonight? What impact will it have?
Chris Bowers :: Tuesday Post-convention Thread

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Tuesday Post-convention Thread | 31 comments
This may be a silly idea... (4.00 / 1)
but does anyone think that they could actually lose points from this convention, given the fact that, well, it isn't very compelling, and they're spending all their time batting down Palin stories?

Sure would be neat to see the first convention in history with a negative bounce.

Didn't the 2004 DNC have a slightly negative bounce already? (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Yup... Kerry had a negetivo 1 (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Not the *first* convention with a negative bounce (0.00 / 0)
Re-create '68!?
[ Parent ]
10? (4.00 / 2)
I saw the PBS commentators here in Denver give Thompson's speech a "10", and opine about how you'd never see a Republican touting the Democratic candidate at a DNC. The more I watch, the more I wonder: Who are these people?
are you sure that was PBS (0.00 / 0)
I don't remember them saying that. Actually Mark Shields was pretty clear that he thought this whole convention was a disaster and that the republicans are screwed because they're trying to make the case for change when they just had their own freaking president on TV.

Even David Brooks didn't seem very impressed with the night. He definitely was not enthusiastic.

[ Parent ]
PBS station, but a local feed (0.00 / 0)
Panel was from an organization called Independence Institute. Don't know who they are, but they seemed to be local to the Denver market.
[ Parent ]
Libertarians (4.00 / 2)
The Independence Institute is a (conservative and well-funded) Libertarian think tank in Colorado. They have been successful at feeding editorials and policy positions into the local media markets.

The local PBS affiliate, KCFR, apparently picked John Caldera or one of his pals as a commentator to balance, umm, the liberals (?) Hard to say, as the II has been able to put itself forward as a legitimate voice.

[ Parent ]
Thompson was the Best of a Bad Lot (0.00 / 0)
I thought that of the four major speeches I heard, Thompson was the best of a bad lot.  In fact, his was the only speech that I'd give a passing grade to as a national convention speech.  He hit Obama on a few things and was moderately effective given his audience.  And he was most effective in the long biographical bit on McCain.  But if we were going to elect a President on who had the most military military background, the race would already be over.  Laura Bush was, embarrassingly, a better speaker than her husband, though no better than a good speaker at a PTA meeting.  Bush was his usual pathetic self -- all hat, no cattle -- and a horrible speaker to boot.  Lieberman was way less effective than Zell Miller four years ago.  They would have done better to find a video of Zell's speech and just rerun it.  
[ Parent ]
the attention off Palin - no way (4.00 / 4)
The Sarah Palin soap opera is turning into the most spectacular train wreck ever in the tabloids, the scoop of the decade. I mean if we have just a few more days of revelations like the last few days the mediasphere is going to implode in a black hole of scandal.

The story of the Bristol pregnancy coverup is that Palin is really a horrible, no-good manipulative control freak.

Palin planned for the wedding to take place right after the Republican National Convention and then she was going to announce the pregnancy. But Bristol, 17, refused to go along with the plan and that sparked a mother-daughter showdown over the failed coverup.

And the Enquirer is just getting started,

The ENQUIRER has also learned that Palin's family is embroiled in a vicious war that is now exposing her darkest secrets, threatening to destroy her political career. Palin's ongoing war with her ex brother-in-law Mike Wooten, a state trooper, has caused multiple sources to come forward with shocking allegations about the governor. Details of those allegations, the family feud, and Palin's attempt to cover up her teen daughter's pregnancy are in the new issue of The ENQUIRER.

http://www.nationalenquirer.co...

Crack open a wingnut and a flood of skeletons come leaping out of the closet, it's Jerry Springer in prime time, it's going to suck all the air out of both campaigns.

Obama strategy: (4.00 / 5)
sit back, open a cold one and watch the fireworks
[ Parent ]
good-natured snark (0.00 / 0)
The Edwards love child story was actually the scoop of the decade. This one is pretty good though, too.
[ Parent ]
maybe but as Drudge would say (4.00 / 1)
.. developing.
[ Parent ]
Bright Shiny Objects (4.00 / 1)
There is an awful lot of attention being paid to Palin instead of to....
- McCain
- Iraq
- Energy issues
- Obama
[ Parent ]
This Is All ABOUT McCain (4.00 / 1)
It's totally destroying his leadership narrative.  Utterly and totally destroying it.

In fact, I think it's quite possible that he could start to sink the way Bush did back in 2005, as the bottom line of this whole fiasco sinks in with more and more people.  In any event, I seriously don't see him breaking 45% under the best of conditions.  If he's lucky, the third parties keep it under a 10-point margin.  If not, blow-out city.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Can they be that stupid? (4.00 / 1)
Color me stuck in the rovian past, but I can't believe the focus groups and pollsters weren't consulted on this. Omnipotent no, but stupid???

The train-wreck narrative plays well with me and my sub culture, but I don't know how it plays with other significant demographics.

[ Parent ]
The "Dems In Disarray" Narrative Is 40+ Years Old (4.00 / 2)
And last week there was none of it in sight.  Then, the well-oiled GOP machine steps in to step on the Dems bounce, and...

Oooops!  Day after day of Keystone Kops political fumbling ensues, tearing up two generations of political master narrative.  I don't care what you call it.  No way it fits into the post-1968 playbook.

Ah! Realignment! Tastes great. Less filling.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
I so wanna believe (0.00 / 0)
It isn't all identity politics.

And, while the new media isn't yet the gramscian force we wish it to be, we are at least able to resonate when we have to. The Palin shortcomings are echoing hear, and dumping into the traditional media.

I've gotten tired of Maureen Dowd's snark, but she lays a big fat one on Palin. Sandra Bullock as gutsy VP, indeed.

[ Parent ]
I would like to know the ratings for the broadcast (4.00 / 1)
This will tell us a lot more than what they re saying. My guess is that the ratings are pretty low. I don't think there is much the GOP can say at this point. Either one supports the last 8 years, or one doesn't . That's what it comes down to. What can they say to this that will dissuade anyone. I think think this election is over, but it still will be close in the end so we must fight to get that win. I know many of you may not feel this way, but this is just a gut check point for me. I don't see how they win- do you?
Waiting for ratings for Palin (0.00 / 0)
She'll draw viewers -- she's the soap queen of the moment.

Can that do the Reps any good? Best they could do is stop the downhill slide. Hard to see them pushing back up the mountain to plausibility though.

Can it happen here?

[ Parent ]
Cultural and Identity Politics (4.00 / 3)
I snarked about Palin, with all those kids, as the Manchurian Conception.

But, there is a hidden cultural agenda which I didn't get until I started thinking of her as trailer trash. That is a nastier snark, but it made me realize the extent to which Palin appeals to a much wider audience than religious right-wingers.

Taking away the train-wreck of her politics and experience, it occurred to me that she is a big dog whistle to white, rural, working class culture and identity. Beauty queen, snowmobile racing, hunting, rugged individualism, rage against the gumint, moose stew. I called it a dog whistle because these cultural values don't mean much to most of us urban, liberal types, but they speak of authenticity to rural, working class, especially the Southern and Western varieties.... or at least speak like she's one of us.

The Republican Party is really good at marketing into these values, and paying attention to identity and how people personally respond on an emotional level to the candidates. This is more important at the national level where specific policies can turn off one group even as it turns on another.

(I still think she'll resign, and leave the door open for Romney or heaven forbid, Lieberman.)

Yeah, but so what... (4.00 / 1)
...Oklahoma wasn't going to turn blue, regardless... so who really cares?  McCain can't win by the base alone... not this year... so, let them have their fun with this mayor of 8,000 and run with it...  it doesn't matter....

Her only danger is if she starts peeling off women from Obama... that's the only thing we need to concern ourselves over...

REID: Voting against us was never part of our arrangement!
SPECTER: I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!
REID: This deal keeps getting worse all the time!

[ Parent ]
Clinton Women? (0.00 / 0)
All the really gung-ho Clinton women I know, fit the stereotype of baby-boomers who identify personally with Clinton as a glass-ceiling breaker. There is no way they will vote McCain.

But, it occurs to me that Hillary also did very well against Obama with the Appalachian demographic, broadly defined as people who identify as 'merican, according to Nate at 538.com. I don't run in those circles, and that is a very different demographic from the Hillary supporters I know. While it is totally unlikely that liberal, middle-class, urban Hillary supporters would jump to McCain, Palin puts a strange twist into female identity politics if we think about more working class circles.

In 2000 we really missed the religious right demographic, and were surprised by the turnout in Ohio and even further West like in Colorado.

We're all snickering about the poor vetting job. But, I have a nagging concern that the Republicans would NEVER do anything like this without vetting by focus group.

Stupid, but not that stupid!?

[ Parent ]
You are Correct (0.00 / 0)
These people -- some of the party regulars and the white working class voters you speak of -- are deeply suspicious of those who they view as cultural elites.  And they view most Democrats as elitist, and this is especially true of Sen. Obama.  Ivy League education, well spoken minority, etc.  In their mind, that just screams elitism.  So we have to be very careful how we attack Palin.  First, we let the media do their job.  They can't help themselves, especially on the teen pregnancy stuff, which truth be told ought to be off limits.  Second, we have to focus not on he lack of experience, but on her "otherness."  On how extreme her views are.  And fortunately, that's getting easier and easier.  Bill Kilgore has an interesting piece along these same lines that I commend to your attention:

http://www.thedemocraticstrate...

[ Parent ]
Yes, Well, Why Do You Think Reps Hated Clinton So Much??? (4.00 / 3)
He was "trailer trash", too.  Only he actually had the audacity to better himself--sort of like the Katherine Heigl character on Grey's Anatomy--without necessarily denying his roots.

Everything they hated Clinton for, they love in Palin.  Why?  Because she reaffirms the authoritarian order of things, rather than challenging it in any way.

That's the bottom line: authoritarianism.

"You know what they say -- those of us who fail history... doomed to repeat it in summer school." -- Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 6, Episode 3

[ Parent ]
Tapper's got a good take of Lieberman's speech (4.00 / 1)
HERE

The whole thing was odd. He got Republicans to cheer for things they don't support.

......

McCain-Feingold? Hated by Republicans. Hated, hated, hated.

The 9/11 Commission?

Need I recall what conservative star Ann Coulter said about the 9/11 widows while selling books to this very crowd?

Judicial confirmations?

These people had fits about the "Gang of 14."

"If John McCain was just another go-along partisan politician, he never would have led the fight to fix our broken immigration system or to do something about global warming," Lieberman said. "But he did!"

Republicans clapped, but my God it was some of the least sincere applause I've heard since my 5th grade piano recital.

Immigration reform? Global warming?

This shows you just how worried Republicans are about losing. And how McCain might be the only Republican to make this race competitive.

These people don't like bipartisanship! They're Republican delegates!


But Look A Little Deeper (4.00 / 2)
Yes, they're partisan Republicans, but deeper than that, they're authoritarians. They'll clap for whomever their leaders tell them to clap for.
[ Parent ]
Thompson was the best by far (0.00 / 0)
Come on. Thompson was the red meat between the two slices of white bread.

Visit DebateScoop for political candidate debate news and analysis.
NERD RAP!!! (0.00 / 0)
For those fellow nerds here who also think that rap lyrics should be more intellectual challenging:

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=...
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=...

Kate McAlpine rulez!
:D


Bipartisan McCain (0.00 / 0)
I wonder how many times McCain has voted with only fellow Senate Republicans to block bipartisan legislation with a cloture vote? I'd say it's a high number but his attendance is so crappy that he may have actually not bothered showing up to be an obstructionist.

John McCain
It's not about Republicans… (0.00 / 0)
...it's about undecideds and swing voters. After a week that ended with Democrats filling a stadium, there's no way for the Republicans to spin what's obvious with just a pan around the convention center: The place is empty. The increased police presence in the Twin Cities seems especially weird because they're not dealing with an inordinate number of protesters. Sarah Palin is tabloid-worthy, but the fact is that even folks in rural communities are getting squeezed by this economy and need some relief from gas prices. Basically, we're seeing the diehards at the RNC, and as long as the issues stay out front, my sense is that they're having a hard time winning non-identified folks over.

"This ain't for the underground. This here is for the sun." -Saul Williams
Tuesday Post-convention Thread | 31 comments
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